[Jamesmb]

Hi

I have an old S & W model 19-3 which I bought at a gunshow last October. Been told it was made in 1971. When I shoot 38 Special or 38 Special +P rounds I am usually fine and this problem doesn't happen. When I shoot maybe 50+ rounds of 357 magnums through it the trigger gets harder and harder to shoot and the cylinder becomes tougher to open the more I shoot till usually I have to quit shooting. I clean the gun thoroughly afterward and oil the best I can, but usually I have to keep shooting snap caps and work it free again. I have taken to a few gunsmiths here where I live and have been told different things it might be, but nothing definite. Opening the side plate with the grips off is as far as I have gotten inside, but have gotten no further. Maybe if I can take or break down further I can get into where the hammer area is and might be gummed up in there, but am afraid of not being able to reassemble. Not to good with working on mechanical problems on this end. Any help? Oh also, even when the gun is working fine, occassionaly I will get a little resistance with one of the holes, and causes the trigger to hang momentarily but then works fine. Doesnt always do though just on occassion.

[rcmodel]

Hard to turn and hard to open when hot?
Sounds heat related if it does it with .357 Mags but not .38 Specials.
Something is expanding when it gets really hot and binding up the cylinder.

I would clean really good under the extractor star.
There may be crud under there holding the ejector back slightly, then when the cylinder expands due to heat, the star is dragging on the recoil shield.

Also check for a loose or un-screwed ejector rod.
See if you can turn it with your fingers. It is a left-hand thread and turning it clockwise from the front loosens it.

If you find anything, come back for further help on tightening it correctly without damaging it.

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rcmodel

[Jamesmb]

Hi

Few ranges trips ago, somebody did squirt some oil on the ejector star, and that seemed to clear it up for the moment. I did not shoot many rounds that day. When I was cleaning the other day after my last trip this trick did not work. I do clean under and all over the ejector star though, but that is the closest point of contact to the recoil shield. How do you unscrew the ejector rod. I saw my gunsmith did that once, I was watching close, last night I tried to take some needle nose pliers but was after of marring the knurled part of the rod and never could get it loose. Definately can not turn in either direction with my fingers.

[rcmodel]

Well, O.K., now that the damage is done, you should have covered the knurling with some scrap leather or a lead sheet before using pliers on it!

But since it is tight, no need to mess with it anymore.

The next time it binds up, try this:
Open the cylinder and hold the cylinder latch back with your thumb.

Now pull the trigger double action and see if it is still binding with the cylinder out of the game?
If it isn't binding, it is not an internal lock-work problem.

Now, with the cylinder closed, see if there is any end-shake at all. (Forward / backward movement of the cylinder)
Is there any daylight visible between the front of the cylinder and the barrel?
(Cylinder binding against barrel face)

Take a plastic ball-point pen or something and see if the spring-loaded locking bolt under inside the barrel lug is free to move in and out far enough to allow the cylinder to open?
Oil it.

It's also possible the ejector rod is bent, or the crane is sprung, but it might be best if a gunsmith who knows S&W's determined that.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j219/rcmodel/KTOG/1224.gif
rcmodel

[Jamesmb]

Hi

Well before I just read your post RC I went out and shot about 30 rounds of magnums and same thing. Even after cleaning was still very hard. I do notice daylight all around the cylinder though from the way it feels though it feels like something is rubbing. The closest or only thing touching would be the ejector star rubbing against the recoil shield that you mentioned before. I did take a ball point pen and was able to move that bolt and it moved back though kinda stiff. When I first got this gun, a gunsmith put in a new spring where that bolt is and after he did it really tightened up the cylinder but felt right. He also checked the ejector rod for bend and put in on a lathe of some sort machined a little but said it was not that much off at all. When the action is open the cylinder spins very well whether it is cleaned or not so I think that is ok. I did get it working by taking a thin piece of metal and trying to clean that part the advances the cylinder to the next hole. Held the cylinder latch to get there. Then I put snap caps in it and kept shooting and that seems to loosen it up and eventually it gets back to normal. Im guessing that the magnums loads are getting somehow alot of powder inside the gun somehow and continually firing the snap caps finally loosens the whole thing up. But it is very hard to get trigger moving though after shooting those rounds today.

By the way, I left it at Gander Mountain and they had it a week, the best the could figure is that the Yoke might be bent. Then took it back to my usual gunsmith and he said it was not bent.

[rcmodel]

Im guessing that the magnums loads are getting somehow alot of powder inside the gun somehow and continually firing the snap caps finally loosens the whole thing up.I just don't think that is possible!
There are old S&W's still going strong that have never had the side-plate off, or cleaned inside in 75 years. The basic S&W action was designed to work back in Black-Powder days, and that right there is way dirtier then any modern ammo can possibly be.

It's gotta be heat expansion binding something up. It cools off while you are playing with snap-caps and starts working again.

Have you tried a drop of good gun oil in the hand slot, locking bolt slot, and down alongside the trigger and hammer?
I also like to put a dab of grease on the ratchet star after cleaning.

Anyway, it's hard to diagnose something like this long distance.
I don't know what else to suggest except find a revolver-smith that knows S&W's.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j219/rcmodel/KTOG/1224.gif
rcmodel

[gb6491]

Anyway, it's hard to diagnose something like this long distance.
Ain't that the truth!

James, I suggest you download this word document: Inspection Guide For Smith & Wesson Revolvers (www.cactustactical.com/reloading/sw-inspection-guide.doc)
Go through the inspections and maintenance in it. Hopefully it will solve or help identify the problem.
Regards,
Greg

[Jamesmb]

Well I took it to another gunsmith today. I had got it working again though, he said inside there was something hanging up and that the timing was slightly off, I left it there and maybe he can get it working. Two other gunsmiths have looked at this and got differeing opions on the same problem. One told me all he could do was change out parts till he got it to work, the other at Gander Mountain said the yoke might be bent and estimated if so would cost 175 to 200 to fix. The other gunsmiths said that was not bent. Might be best to just sell.

[Jim K]

Sounds like those "gunsmiths" should go back to working on trucks or whatever they really do. I am inclined to agree that heat is a factor and that the cylinder is binding. But the barrel/cylinder gap is not the only place that can happen. The S&W cylinder headspace and end shake adjustment is inside, where the cylinder rests on the cylinder arbor that is part of the crane. If that tolerance is too great, you can get endshake; if it is too small, you can get the condition you describe as the cylinder heats up.

P.S. If that is the condition, it is easily corrected. Brownells sells a tool that does the job right.

Jim

[Jamesmb]

I don't know about the heat, the trigger stayed very tough for many hours after I had finished shooting at the range. But maybe I am misunderstanding this. Should have left gun in disabled state and waited to take to gunsmith so he could see it in the problem mode.

The gunsmith today did say the headspace, hope I get the terminology right, was .008". Before I remember one gunsmith did say the gap between the barrel and the front of the cylinder was .004". Looking at the diagram on the link, thanks gb for the link, I think the parts having trouble engaging are the trigger stud or the piece it holds and the cylinder stop also he said that there was a suspect spring behind these.

I have so far including cost of gun and gun-smithing, put over $400 into this gun. All I wanted was a gun the could consistently shoot 357 magnums without any trouble. Also been told these older K Frames have issues with consistent firing of magnums loads, something about cracking the forcing cone, but others have told me 158gr mags should be ok. Any thoughts? Thanks again, James