Polypropylene bat?


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eb72826
January 17, 2008, 05:47 PM
Saw one in Cold Steel's catalog, called the Brooklyn Smasher or Crusher, depending on length. Has anyone seen or handled one? I know they claim to be tougher than wood, but I have trouble putting a whole lot of trust in what is really just plastic. Does seem like a pretty good backseat melee weapon, though.

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CWL
January 17, 2008, 06:00 PM
Stick with wood or aluminum bats. You will always have plausible deniability if forced to defend yourself with a bat. Real wood or aluminum means that you forget to take it home after a game. Something marked CS Brooklyn Smasher will scream "weapon here!"

Skofnung
January 18, 2008, 12:02 AM
It will be tougher than wood due to the fact that plastic does not have a grain, thus it won't split. Better than wood? Maybe for beating on cinderblocks or car hoods.

I'm with CWL on this one. The practical pros don't outweigh the potential legal cons.

hso
January 18, 2008, 12:39 AM
It's tougher than wood, but you'll never be able to explain it as anything except a purpose built weapon and what's the point of carrying a baseball bat as a stealth weapon if the dang thing ain't a stealth weapon.

sm
January 18, 2008, 12:49 AM
Just a theory mind you...

I gotta wonder if the Marketing folks for some companies have family that are Lawyers.

Creative Marketing at its finest!

Market product, it sells, Problem 2 occurs and the Lawyer in the family gets a client.

Brilliant!

Sl2squeeze
January 18, 2008, 12:50 AM
Polypropylene products are generally tougher than wood, but they CAN break. There are sometimes air pockets in the mold that weaken the overall integrity of the bat.

sniper5
January 18, 2008, 02:12 PM
Looks like just the thing to keep around the next time Yous wants to play some Baasball in Philly or da Bronx or Queens. You never know when a game will just come up. (But officer, dere I was-just minding my own business-eating my pizza wit my bros-and all of a sudden with absolutely no provocation on my part in walked. . .)

Joe Demko
January 18, 2008, 06:33 PM
If you keep a bat in your car, you really should keep a ball and a glove with it. Cops aren't all stupid or gullible.

Otony
January 18, 2008, 08:33 PM
"If you keep a bat in your car, you really should keep a ball and a glove with it. Cops aren't all stupid or gullible."

I am surprised it took this long for this very good advice to be mentioned (it usually surfaces sooner in "bat" threads).

Sorry, have to agree with everyone else, a Brooklyn Smasher is simply bad legal problems waiting to happen. Buy a regular bat, scrub a baseball on the grass a few times and throw both in your car.....if you must.

cdcmj
January 18, 2008, 08:42 PM
+ 1 on last two comments..get a bat, get a ball, get a glove, your done

gym
January 18, 2008, 09:00 PM
For the cost of a Bat, Glove, and ball, "havent really shopped those", it's cheaper to buy a box of hollowpoints, lol, Don't forget tomorrow is the Trinadad-Jones fight, let's see what they bring

Joe Demko
January 20, 2008, 12:34 PM
If you have a bat, ball, and glove you might even want to try playing a little ball. Not everything in life has to center around weapons and combat.

et45
January 21, 2008, 06:34 PM
Add pair of cleats also to the list.

JShirley
January 21, 2008, 07:07 PM
I'd get one of the two, if some idiot hadn't effectively written "this is a weapon!" on it. Sheesh.

John

Browning
January 22, 2008, 02:52 PM
I sure wouldn't want to get hit with one anyway, they felt like they'd work much better than a regular bat if the weight and feel are any indication. I wonder if you could sand or scrape the Cold Steel "Brooklyn Smasher" logo off.

Then you'd have a bat that'll stand up to just about any kind of abuse (as they are pretty tough from what I've seen of them, much tougher than wood or aluminum anyway from the videos, I didn't try to run one over with a car though to test them out the way they did on the video though) and then he wouldn't have to worry about it being a liability in front law enforcement, a DA or possibly a jury if he had to defend himself with it and if it made it that far through the legal system.

A plain baseball bat is just a bat if it doesn't have anything that implies that it's a weapon on it.

Alot of bats don't have anything on them after they've been handled awhile, it just rubs off over time.

Skofnung
January 22, 2008, 06:18 PM
I think one would be better served with a 24 ounce framing hammer. But then again, I drive a pickup (with tools behind the seat) and don't play baseball.

GunTech
January 22, 2008, 06:50 PM
I once made a bat out of cocobolo for a friend. Would have made a hell of a club.

Another vote for a hammer. I'm partial to a slate hammer, but as a former climber, I have a few ice axes as well.

:)

TimboKhan
January 22, 2008, 08:35 PM
I keep a bat in my car, and while I love baseball, I don't keep a ball and glove in there. Why? Simply because I don't give a darn if a cop knows it's a weapon. What, are the cops going to take my bat away because I don't have a concealed bat license? It's not that it's bad advice, and maybe in certain places in the country it's something to be concerned about, but not around here.

Still, for the price of a Brooklyn Crusher, you can buy a nice aluminium bat at wally world for cheaper.

cracked butt
January 24, 2008, 03:17 PM
That might be one of the stupidest products I've ever seen. More expensive than a wooden bat, less useful than a wooden bat, and something that has as its main purpose to be a weapon. If you have a bat that says 'Cold Steel' on it, it might as well have 'Mall Ninja' on it instead.:rolleyes:

If you want something with a dual purpose try one of these: http://www.tackledirect.com/aftcofishbat.html

Fish bats are a necessity for fishing for certain species (pike in the North or larger ocean fish) and they only offend animal rights activists. FWIW, I've always used 18" of wood cut off the end of a shovel handle for the purpose.

highorder
January 24, 2008, 05:21 PM
I have a few ice axes as well.


you dont want to use those as weapons. They have almost no second strike capability. (they probably tend to sink in deep)

funny thing is, I actuall DO have a bat, ball, and glove in the car... for baseball!

Hot brass
January 24, 2008, 05:54 PM
The Brooklyn Smasher is not as long as a regular bat, if my memory serves me right. Order a Sjambok from Cold Steel instead.

George Hill
January 25, 2008, 03:25 PM
I have an African Walking stick... it will do as a weapon. But I use it as a cane when my knee or ankle acts up. Everyone in town including all the LEOs have seen me use it as such. So should I have to T up on someone with it... it is still a cane.

hrgrisso
January 25, 2008, 03:54 PM
Thankfully my gout doesn't act up on a regular basis so no need for a walking stick but for years I kept a spare ash axe handle alongside the seat of my truck for "special" occassions. It didn't look out of place next to my real axe, my sledge, shovel, rake etc.

Actually I found it's use quite by accident when a drug runner tried to steal my truck while I was working on replacing an axe handle... :evil:

JohnBT
January 25, 2008, 08:58 PM
Am I the only one who carries an old saltwater rod, tackle box, fillet knife and a fish club? Have you ever seen a 17-pound bluefish or a small shark flopping around in a little boat? And a saltwater license of course.

www.meltontackle.com/catalog/product.asp?product_id=11194

http://meltontackle-media.precis5.com/051928341be67dcba03f0e04104d9047?mod=thumb&max_h=300&max_w=300

Most folks just whittle down a broken bat and carve a picture of a fish or a boat on it. Drill a hole in the handle for a cord and you're set.

rcmodel
January 26, 2008, 04:49 PM
I'm thinking an old used Plumbers Helper would best fit the "not a weapon" tool for car carry.

They be runn'n before you get out of the car with it!

Nobody wants to get hit in the face with a dirty toilet plunger! :D

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j219/rcmodel/KTOG/1224.gif
rcmodel

Gunz
January 26, 2008, 05:58 PM
This is good.

I think the polypropylene bat from Cold Steel is cool to keep in the house, and NOT the car. various reasons for its being considered a blatant weapon. It is rather dense, and flexes a good bit for excellent whipping and momentum upon impact. For $27, it is an interesting thing to have around the house. I actually used it to whack large ice chunks near the shed. The impact blows from the Brooklyn crusher are very good. I had all that ice split very quickly.

Now, for the car: Keep an alum bat, glove, and a few baseballs. From Walmart is fine. It is fun to play baseball. If one HAD to defend oneself, then one does have a good bat. The baseballs can be projectiles. If you are good, a person can launch a ball at 100 mpg pitches. :) The glove is to catch the baseball if your attacker throws your baseball back AT you!!! LOL. either way, you win!

GunTech
January 26, 2008, 11:58 PM
The Brooklyn Smasher is not as long as a regular bat, if my memory serves me right. Order a Sjambok from Cold Steel instead.

I bought a couple of the Sjamboks just for fun. My daughter loves to destroy cardboard boxes with them, and after some experimentation, I can tell you they hurt like hell. I took one and cut it down to about 4 feet and it works well. There's a neighborhood dog that used to go after people, and it avoids me by a wide berth these days. I don't know of any laws that restrict the carrying of a Sjambok, but you never know.

The walking stick is certainly under-appreciated. I've made several sticks and canes from material like African blackwood and cocobolo. Not only do they look nice, but both woods are heavy and far stronger than anything short of polymer or metal.

Defending yourself with your cane is not likely to create problems, and can even be a plush should you actually have some sort of injury.

keeleon
January 30, 2008, 07:53 PM
I saw some of those "fish clubs" in a truck stop with "Tire Checker" written on them. It was the funniest dam thing ever. In Southern CA none the less.

Joe Demko
January 30, 2008, 09:59 PM
On big trucks, you really do use a club to check the tires. When the tires are mounted the way to tell if any individual one has lost its air is to thump it with a club. They sound different than one that is properly inflated.

fearless leader
February 2, 2008, 06:14 PM
A good 16" aluminum pipe wrench does more than loosen nuts.

It swings fast too, and can adjust an attitude quickly to bring an adversary "around to your way of thinking."

It's easily explainable why you have it.

On ship, they were the all purpose weapon.

fearless leader
February 2, 2008, 06:17 PM
Of course, never underestimate the bargaining power of a 9 iron golf club either.

WinchesterAA
February 2, 2008, 11:16 PM
Oddly enough, batbags make great pistolgrip shotty bags.

Avenger
February 3, 2008, 01:36 AM
Those "Tire Thumpers" are sure painful when you, um, miss the tire.....but not your shin. Please don't ask.....

BTW, please don't try to use a polypropylene bat in an actual game. MLB experimented with various plastic, carbon fiber, and Fiberglass bats back in the 80s. Awesome home run distances, but pitchers and infielders genuinely feared how quickly the ball came off the bat.

dogma512
March 12, 2008, 10:47 AM
What, are the cops going to take my bat away because I don't have a concealed bat license?

How exactly are you planning to conceal a bat? "No officer, that's not a bat in my pants, I'm just happy to see you!"

BryanP
March 12, 2008, 10:56 AM
If you really want to be convincing, pick up a used glove/bat/ball combo at some yard sale. A nice worn set with grime.

Of course, if you happen to be an amateur rock hound you can always stash a set of grimy gloves with an old rock hammer behind the seat.

http://z.about.com/d/geology/1/0/U/U/prospecthammer.jpg

Zoogster
March 14, 2008, 06:41 PM
I don't know of any laws that restrict the carrying of a Sjambok, but you never know.
In CA any impact object carried for self defense or offensive use is an illegal "Billy" a felony.

Even objects which are perfectly legal and not designed for use as a weapon.
If an officer asks you why you have it and any part of your reply includes "...and self defense" you have just admitted to a felony, and can be charged.

Clearly any object intentionaly designed for use as such a weapon is a felony, including a stick with a handle or tape on one end.

Sports equipment is legal, tools kept handy are legal, but if at any time you were to mention self defense as a possible use for it, it goes from legal to felony billy based on intent even if you really do carry it primarily as a tool. If pulled over an officer asks it applies. If after you use it for self defense at any time, whether in court or during the investigation you mention one of the possible uses you kept it for was self defense, it also applies, and you will have committed a felony even if the self defense was justified.

Arguably it could even be considered illegal in your home to keep a blunt object for defensive purposes. I base this on the fact that people have been prosecuted successfuly for keeping nuchaku (nunchucks) in thier residence. The very same statute that outlaws them outlaws possession of a billy, so it would appear case law shows those statutes apply in the home as well.
Keeping a bat in the home for defensive use would be a felony in that case. While keeping a firearm for the very same purpose is entirely legal.

Buzzbox
March 14, 2008, 11:07 PM
Estwing framing hammers. All you need.

Robert Hairless
March 15, 2008, 01:48 AM
Don't listen to Rcmodel. He's making fun of everybody.

To be serious for a moment, good cover are dirty clothes, a coal miner's cap, a lunch pail, and a Miner's Pick. If a cop stops you all you do is explain that you're looking for alternative energy sources and got lost. Here's how I look dressed that way on the streets of New York City on my latest visit to see the latest shows:

http://www.coalandcokepsu.org/CoalandCokeandKids/images/History/miner.jpg

Nobody every stops me. And nobody ever attacks me either. Pretty hard to get a cab, but I never have trouble getting a seat on the Subway. Even during rush hour everybody is polite and moves to another car when I enter.

(Notice the tactical light on my cap? It's an early SureFire of course. My clothing is 5-11, boots are Danners, underwear is UnderArmor, accessories by Blackhawk. Aftershave and deodorant are Hoppes No. 9.)

ArfinGreebly
March 15, 2008, 04:45 AM
The primary reason that you can't declare an otherwise harmless object as "intended for self defense" is that this indicates that you are planning to be attacked.

It is common knowledge that it's a crime to be attacked.

If you were not planning to be attacked, it's a misdemeanor, and often not even charged. If, on the other hand, you were prepared to be attacked, this indicates planning to be a victim with malice aforethought, clearly a felony.

So, whatever you do, if you happen to defend yourself, make sure it's entirely by accident.

"Uh, no, officer, I never meant to defend myself from the mugger, I was just trying to distract him so I could run away, just waving this bat to distract him. That's when he charged and ran into the darned thing."

Matt_W
March 17, 2008, 09:08 AM
Considering how rare it is to see people actually playing baseball here in the UK, it always amazes me just how many places actually sell baseball bats!:what:

Zoogster
March 21, 2008, 08:37 PM
The primary reason that you can't declare an otherwise harmless object as "intended for self defense" is that this indicates that you are planning to be attacked.

It is common knowledge that it's a crime to be attacked.

If you were not planning to be attacked, it's a misdemeanor, and often not even charged. If, on the other hand, you were prepared to be attacked, this indicates planning to be a victim with malice aforethought, clearly a felony.

So, whatever you do, if you happen to defend yourself, make sure it's entirely by accident.

That is hilarious Arfin. I had to read it a few times because it is just too funny because it is in fact closer to reality under CA law than you would expect, particularly in regards to blunt objects, an illegal felony "billy" under PC 12020 if intended for us as a weapon (in self defense or in criminal offense.)

"Uh, no, officer, I never meant to defend myself from the mugger, I was just trying to distract him so I could run away, just waving this bat to distract him. That's when he charged and ran into the darned thing."
Well the thing is you can in fact use it as a weapon to defend yourself, if otherwise legal (if he is unarmed and just attacking you may be charged for the weapon as you were not preventing a "forcible felony" but instead a misdemeanor battery or assault unless you can prove he was vhastly physicaly superior in court or a "disparity of force" that would cause a reasonable person to fear for thier life.)
You can pull out a blunt object in your vehicle or home and proceed to use it as a weapon legaly if legal self defense with deadly force is justified.
Do keep in mind it is considered deadly force though.

You however may not keep the item for that purpose, mention that is one potential use for it, etc without commiting a felony crime. The intent to use it as a weapon turns it into a felony "billy".
You could keep a bat to hit balls on occasion, club fish when you go fishing etc and you could use it for self defense when justified. You however could not keep it for hitting balls on occasion, clubbing fish, and self defense if necessary.

Make sense? Of course not, it is CA law.

You can defend yourself with blunt objects that make good weapons and happen to be available unintentionaly. You cannot intentionaly be ready to defend yourself with a blunt object. The intent to use the item as a blunt weapon, or "billy" whether or not you use it is what makes it a felony.

There is similar restrictions for things that fall under the CA legal definition of (not actualy definition, but definition by law which is far more encompassing) a leaded cane (any object intentionaly weighted to be heavier for use as a weapon, not just a cane) or blackjack, slungshot, billy,
sandclub, sap, or sandbag.
They generaly cover any object, whether a purse, a sock etc intentionaly filled with objects and intended for use as a weapon. I have known women that kept a lot of change in a purse for that reason, telling an officer that would be admitting to a felony in CA.
Now whether someone is actualy charged for such things often will depend on discretion, the events at hand, and the officer in question. But such intent does make it a felony crime.

Wheeler
March 21, 2008, 09:35 PM
I find it odd that on a gun board filled with advocates of carrying, both concealed and open, for the purpose of self defense; that the idea of using a plastic bat called the brooklyn smasher for the same purpose is regarded as a quick one-way trip to jail. "Sure buddy, get you a gun, learn to use it, carry it with pride, but don't get caught with a plastic bat, you might hurt someome with that."

Am I the only one that sees the irony in this?

Wheeler

RLsnow
March 21, 2008, 10:03 PM
you are not the only one wheeler.

but such are the laws, and the laws are indeed stupid...

Zoogster
March 21, 2008, 11:14 PM
I find it odd that on a gun board filled with advocates of carrying, both concealed and open, for the purpose of self defense; that the idea of using a plastic bat called the brooklyn smasher for the same purpose is regarded as a quick one-way trip to jail. "Sure buddy, get you a gun, learn to use it, carry it with pride, but don't get caught with a plastic bat, you might hurt someome with that."


Am I the only one that sees the irony in this?
Wheeler what I mentioned is simply the law in CA, and many laws especialy weapon laws around the country do not make sense. Knife laws and blunt object laws and other weapons arguably less capable than a firearm are far more severe and restrictive many places than even the laws on firearms.

In CA illegaly carrying a concealed and loaded firearm as a pedestrian and not commiting another crime can be a misdemeanor on the first offense. Doing the same thing with a concealed kitchen knife, or even a heavy stick carred as a weapon will be a felony.



Now irregardless of the law, you also have to consider public perception, prosecutor perception, and jury perception. If you get into a fight with a determined individual and you are armed with oh lets say a knife.
A smaller pocket knife as usualy carried by people, wielded by your average citizen for self defense is not going to result in immediate disabling wounds with a single stabbing especialy with the other person actively attacking.
Now more than a dozen stab wounds could be given in a matter of 10 seconds, and the other person can still be attacking. It takes a good 20-30 seconds for even those inflicted to often take effect, and non lethal ones much longer.

So in a court of law the average person will see you stabbed someone multiple times. It is gruesome. Even if it was necessary and you only stabbed for as long as you were being attacked and stopped right afterwards you may find the jury unable to relate. You may find yourself convicted of a crime, because they just simply cannot relate to that kind of force having only experienced it in movies, and in the movies someone keels over after the first stabbing, yet you did a lot more than that.

However had you used a firearm in the same situation, pressing a button, or pulling a trigger to stop the attack is something the average person can imagine themselves doing.
So even with the same end result, the attacker seriously wounded or killed, and the attack stopped, the outcome can be very different.

You are likely to be viewed as a monster with the knife, and if the evidence is even slightly questionable, like it ofteny is in public self defense with conflicting witness statements etc, then you will probably be convicted for something you would not be convicted for defending yourself with a firearm over.
The prosecutor and jury will look at it, wonder if you really needed to stab someone that many times, think it took far longer to do than it actualy did, and question whether you went beyond self defense. That even if you stopped stabbing as soon as the attacked ceased.
With a firearm it is different. The house wife on the jury, the locals that didn't have an excuse to get out of jury duty etc will be able to relate to pulling a trigger while in fear for thier life, because it is more refined, less savage, less primative, and more respectable somehow. People not familiar with a life threatening physical altercation will understand pulling it trigger to save themselves. They won't be as likely to relate to actively engaging in hand to hand deadly force, to the extent often necessary in real life to stop a determined attacker.


The same irony can exist with a bat. In an attack where both parties are actively dodging avoiding direct blows it may take multiple hits with a blunt object to stop an attack. You may do a brief dance until one makes a makes a couple mistakes that the other can take advantage of and put an end to the danger.

It may be even more questionable. For example, you hit them with a glancing blow, causing them to stumble. You now have the advantage, but they are clearly upset and getting back up. Do you strike them to prevent that? Or do you gamble with your own life and not finish the fight while you can?
If you wait for them to regain composure themselves you can end up losing, murdered yourself. This is not a sport and you are not in a ring, are you going to be sporting with your life? The well being and financial support of your family, your ability to parent your children?
With a firearm it is much easier in such a situation because you can put that decisive off until closer to the last moment, when they clearly demonstrate they are still a threat. You don't have that luxury with a blunt object, and that can mean the difference between the jury understanding, and you going to prison. Or them gaining the upper hand and then finishing you off.
A blunt or sharp object does not allow some of the same luxuries in the decision making process that a firearm does.

If you have ever been in a serious fight you know that once you start prevailing you can often control the outcome as long as you continue. As soon as you stop the outcome goes back up in the air and is less certain. Things are brief, they are rapid, and the outcome can be the difference in who survives. Do you owe your attacker a fair fight? Are you fighting a duel or defending your life against someone that threatened your life and/or attacked you?
The people judging your fate afterwards often expect you to give someone a fair fight with hand to hand fighting or contact weapons. They don't hold you to that standard with a firearm for some reason, simply being in immediate life threatening danger is enough with a firearm, but with a blunt object you are expected to make yourself vulnerable multiple times just in case they changed thier mind mid attack. It may sound good in theory, but you may not find it keeps you alive in practice.

So even when just as capable, non firearms are not as good of a weapon for self defense because you will have a harder time in a court of law explaining to people with no similar experience multiple successive blows and why you did them, as opposed to explaining firing a shot or two while your life was in danger.

krustoleum
March 26, 2008, 07:52 PM
I have to recommend a 4-D cell Mag light. It is tough aluminum. You can use it as a flashlight, which is good to have in your car anyway.

Hold it by the lamp end and shine the light in your attackers eyes to distract them and then smack them with the other end.
You can buy holding clips for them in the flashlight section of whateveer stor you get it at.

Mine is mounted in reaching distance on the floor of my truck.

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