[GotToyota?]

Hello guys, new member here. I was actually recommended here by a friend who browses the forum.

Anyways, I do not own a firearm, but I want to get one. I want to start out with a small(er) pistol. I've been told that a .22 would be good based on what I would like. I'm just wanting something that I can use to shoot at the range whenever I go, and for whatever else, even protection if need be. I've seen that ammo is much cheaper compared to other pistols such as the 9mm, etc.
But I've been looking at pistols, and I think I've decided on this one:

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/21_28/products_id/50931

Any thoughts on this gun? I've heard good things about it.

-Matt

[Blackbeard]

First of all, welcome to the forum, GT! I've never shot a Sig Mosquito before. I agree with your choice of .22LR as your introductory caliber. I'm sure someone will say it's useless for defense, but defense isn't your primary purpose for buying it. Still has better range than a knife, and you can shoot all day for very little money.

[bensdad]

Welcome!

Report back on how you like that Sig. I recall seeing very mixed reviews on it.

I have a S&W 22a. Love it. Also have a Browning Buckmark. Love it. They're all in about the same price range, give or take.

ETA: You can also do a search of this site (Try TFL also) using the name of the gun you wish to research. I'm sure there have been several threads about it on both forums. THR is, however, much cooler.

[GotToyota?]

I'm also looking at the S&W 22a short barrel.

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/21_39_71/products_id/26991

I'm looking at a few threads now about the Mosquito. Also, I want to go to Cabela's to get a feel for these guns and actually hold them in my hand, would they have both of these guns there?

-Matt

[Shawnee]

Hi Got...

I don't know about the SIG or S&W but, if you'd like another suggestion to look it, mine would be the Browning Buckmark. It comes in a couple flavors and the one I have has been great for years.

Good Luck !!

:cool:

[GotToyota?]

I've looked at the Buckmark, but I personally don't like the way it looks.

I like the style of the two I forementioned.

-Matt

[biscuitninja]

Honestly I would probably get a nice used 9mm Glock or a 1911 .45. A bit on the MUCH bigger side but you'll at least have a piece of history that you can keep for a LONG time.

The Glock 9mm will be a pistol that you can modify and use for a long, long, long, long time with very little issues. Pretty much a lifetime pistol. The recoil isn't that great and you can modify it to almost anything you really want.
Good luck
-bix

[Trebor]

If you are just getting started in shooting taking a training class would be a good idea.

I recommend the NRA Basic Pistol class. The curriculum is standardized and the class is available pretty much everywhere. It covers everything a beginner needs to know.

The instructor will almost always provide the guns and you'll get a chance to try different guns and ask questions.

For info go to www.nra.org and look for "Training Opportunities."

There will be a pull down list that shows all the classes in your state. You may still need to ask around at the local gun shops though as not all instructors remember to list their classes on the NRA website. (I usually don't, for instance).

Trust me, a little training now will really serve you well in the long run.

[jimbob86]

None other other than Col. Jeff Cooper said no home should be without a .22 pistol. You SHOULD have one.

That said, the .22 is not an effective Self Defense round, unless you are good enough to put your bullets in your attackers eye sockets, under stress.......... If he also has a gun, and you put 2 to his Center of Mass, you are going to get shot in return.

My recomendation for a first handgun- general purpose, plinking, personal defense: Ruger GP (General Purpose?!?!) 100, 4" Barrel, in .357 Magnum. Use .38s for practice/plinking, .357 for hunting (Legal for deer in many states) or personal defense. Easy to operate and maintain. Handloading is simple and straightforward. Inexpensive.

[Sun195]

You may also want to look at .22lr revolvers - like maybe a Ruger Single-Six or S&W 22. You really can't go wrong with a .22lr handgun. Cheap to shoot, enjoyable to shoot, good for introducing other new shooters to the sport, etc.

I think a full-sized 4" .357 revolver (Ruger GP100 or S&W 686 or S&W 620) can make a good first gun. Easy to shoot with .38 specials, reasonable ammo prices (although, not as cheap as .22lr) and perhaps more versatile for self defense.

Good luck! Let us know what you get.

[sandwich]

Hello guys, new member here. I was actually recommended here by a friend who browses the forum.

Anyways, I do not own a firearm, but I want to get one. I want to start out with a small(er) pistol. I've been told that a .22 would be good based on what I would like. I'm just wanting something that I can use to shoot at the range whenever I go, and for whatever else, even protection if need be. I've seen that ammo is much cheaper compared to other pistols such as the 9mm, etc.
But I've been looking at pistols, and I think I've decided on this one:

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/p...ducts_id/50931

Any thoughts on this gun? I've heard good things about it.

-Matt

If you are looking for a first pistol to learn on, a .22 is a great idea. As for a gun, I am not sure. A Ruger might be a good bet, but anything cheap and reliable to learn on should be good enough. You can move up to Glocks and GP100s later, after you have learned on the .22.

As for the gun you cited, I have no personal experience with it, but I have heard it is junk. Plus, $300 for a .22 is a lot of money in my opinion. At any rate, whatever you do, don't just buy any gun that looked cheap like I did for a first gun. Although I ended up buying a great gun (a Bersa .380), the ammo costs were painful since .380 is an expensive caliber. The costs of the ammo limited my range time, and although I don't regret the purchase at all, I do regret not researching and thinking about what would be a good first gun for me.

[HM2PAC]

GotToyota,

Welcome to THR.

I would definitely buy a .22LR to start with. Of the 2 you have listed, go with thw S&W 22-A. I have read too many stories about reliability issues with the Sig Mosquito and the Walther P22. They both look very nice, but they jam quite a bit. Acquaintances of mine with both consider them to be headaches.

A new shooter should, IMHO, have something reliable that doesn't turn shooting into a hassle.

.22LR's that are known for reliability:
S&W
Browning
Ruger
SigSauer Trailside

The Beretta Neos seem to be drawing a big following, but I don't have any experience with them.

You may also want to look around on:http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/index.php

Good Luck,
HM2PAC

[Constantine-p89]

You should try a 9mm, good starter weapon and around 8 to 10 dollars a box of ammo. The 22 is cheap alright but in a pistol itis not a good defence round.

[bannockburn]

GotToyota

Welcome to THR. Something else you might want to consider would be a full size 9mm. semi-auto, like a Glock, Hi-Power, or 1911 type. Fills the self defense role, uses cheaper ammo than other centerfire cartridges, and all have a .22LR conversion unit available for them. Best of both worlds; you save on ammo, and train on the same platform for both calibers.

[Constantine-p89]

bannockburn +1, and by the way Welcome to the forum GotToyota.

[sandwich]

You should try a 9mm, good starter weapon and around 8 to 10 dollars a box of ammo. The 22 is cheap alright but in a pistol itis not a good defence round.

The defense pistol can come later, learning how to shoot comes first.

[HM2PAC]

Another option would be to buy a full-size pistol that also can accept a .22LR conversion kit.

Welcome to the world of great ways to go broke......buying guns.

[biscuitninja]

I say have you ever thought about the Beretta Neos? How about Whitney Wolverine. Both have the 50's Ray Gun styling, but both work pretty well. Take it easy
-bix

[gunnerh]

Welcome to the high road. Find a good 22 pistol YOU like and shoot the heck out of it. The Sig I shot was nice. I got the Walther P-22 with the 3.25" barrel. Both the Sig and the Walther like CCI high speed and hyper speed ammo a lot. With bulk Wal Mart 22 jams were common with both. Good Luck

[rem2429]

cz 75 and .22 conversion (Cadet) upper.

[mljdeckard]

I won't tell anyone who wants to learn to shoot not to get a .22 just because there are bigger guns. Let him learn and enjoy.

My dad has a VERY old Ruger Mk I pistol that I have enjoyed shooting my whole life. Now there are newer models, such as the 22.45.

You can look at this if you WANT to, I have owned both Glocks and 1911s with .22 conversion kits. You buy the full-size pistol, and then there are aftermarket kits with a different slide, barrel, and magazine. You disassemble the pistol like you would to clean it, and put it back together with the kit parts. .22 in about a minute. Now you have the best of both worlds. Switch back and forth, use all the cheap ammo you want with the same grip and trigger as your real defensive gun. AND, the Ciener Arms 1911 .22 kit is the only .22 pistol I know of with a 15 round magazine. They make .22 kits for 1911s, Glocks, Browning Hi-Powers, Beretta 92/96 series, CZ-75, (like the poster above me mentioned,).

A few years ago, I got my dad a Ruger Single-Six, which is a Colt Peacemaker sixgun style .22 six-shooter. He loads it with birdshot to zap rattlesnakes when he's fly-fishing mountain streams. It has another cylinder he can switch out to shoot .22 magnums too.

[Caipirinha]

I shot a Mosquito at the range and was completely unimpressed by it. The trigger was awful, it was hard to believe it was a Sig. I didn't want to say anything disparanging about it to the owner, but he didn't have any problem bad-mouthing it.

[Pilot]

cz 75 and .22 conversion (Cadet) upper.

x2! Excellent choice! I have a Kadet Kit and it works great on both my 75B and 75D PCR.

[crankshop1000]

S&W 22A. It's cheap to buy, easy to disassemble and clean,extremely accurate,comes with a built in Weaver mount rail, good target sights and a lifetime warranty from S&W. They come in various finishes and barrel lengths.
My 22A with a Bushnell red dot.
http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff90/crankshop1000/IM002258.jpg

[Noxx]

Welcome to THR.

.22LR is a great round for an introduction to firearms. I cannot really recommend the Mosquito, I owned one for a couple of weeks before giving it up in disgust over feeding issues, and I'm a member of the Sig Kool-Aid club. I'd suggest the Smith pictured above.

[Revolver Ocelot]

if you plan on potentially using it for defense or carrying it someday I'd advise against the 22, its rather under powered for such use, I'd recomend a .380 over it, ammo is still relatively cheap and its fun to shoot and will still act as a good defense round, I'd make recomendations for a gun but I'm not sure what price range you are working with.

[crebralfix]

Glock, SIG, Beretta, HK, Springfield Armory, Browning, FN, Colt, Ruger, S&W, CZ, Walther.... There are a gazillion different makers who make good guns. I excluded Taurus and Kahr for a reason.

I would look at anything in 9x19mm or larger caliber for semi-autos and 38 Special for revolvers (327 Federal is brand new and is supposedly like 9mm...which is like hot 38 Special...nothing new, move along). If you stay with: 9x19mm, 38 Special, 357 Magnum, 40 S&W, 45 ACP, and 44 Magnum, you should never have any trouble finding ammunition. If you go with a different caliber, you'll have to shop a bit more and probably pay a premium. That's not to say 41 Magnum and 357 SIG are not good; they're just not common.

If you break it down even further, 38 Special, 9x19mm, 40 S&W, and 45 ACP are probably the most popular centerfire cartridges in the US at this time. Revolvers account for a small percentage of the market, but some people really like them.

I highly recommend that you go with a semi-automatic. Yes, revolvers are neat, but for self-defense, they have a few problems. Disregard any statistics (you'll only need an average of 3 shots) because the fight *is*...it is not what you want it to be. Some very common handguns:

Any 1911 in 45 ACP
Glock 17, 19, 26 in 9x19mm
Glock 22, 23, 27 in 40 S&W
Glock 21, 30 in 45 ACP
Browning Hi-Power in 9x19mm (really a classic suffering low sales) and 40 S&W
SIG P226, P228, P229 available in 9x19mm, 357 SIG (NOT 357 mag), 40 S&W
SIG P220 in 45 ACP
Beretta 92 or 96 in 9x19mm and 40 S&W
S&W M&P
HK USP and P2000 in various calibers
Springfield Armory XD (9x19mm, 40 S&W, 45 ACP)
Ruger: various models...sometimes feel goofy, but usually pretty good value. New SR9 is competitively priced
Walther: P99 in 9x19 and 40 S&W
Steyr: Friend swears by them, but not widely sold/supported in the US
CZ: Very good value, very reliable from friends' accounts. Give it a serious look.
Kahr: Small, compact and total ****. I've owned two that broke in <300 rounds, friends had several that broke...one had a serious break


Revolvers:

Ruger SP101 in 38 Spl, 357 Magnum, 327 Federal
Ruger GP100 in 357 Magnum
S&W -- dozens of models with 6, 7, or 8 shots of 357 Mag or 6x45 ACP
Taurus: crap, don't even bother
Charter Arms: probably crap, but could be good
Dan Wesson: Good, limited new guns but gun broker has used ones

***Most important part***

If you stick with the major manufacturers for non-1911 handguns, you should receive a reliable firearm that will last a long time. You won't know what you really want in a first gun. This is OK because there are so many features and price points that it's impossible to really know without doing lots of shooting. Some points to consider:

1) Fits the hand
2) Feels balanced
3) You can see the sights
4) Fingers can reach the magazine release and external safety (other controls optional)
5) Functions reliably (but you won't know that for awhile)

You won't know how to optimize for the purpose you have in mind. For a learning gun, it's just important that it works to a reasonable degree of precision. This does NOT mean tiny groups; it means a 4" circle on a human sized target. Target guns are good, but you mentioned double duty as a defensive firearm. Therefore, reliability dictates that the mechanics of the gun be a bit more loose than on a target gun. You won't really need adjustable sights, though some guns will have them (like a S&W revolver, even though it's a defense gun).

As mentioned previously, a good 22 caliber handgun makes a great LEARNING gun. They are typically less than $300. The Ruger MK II or MK III, Browning Buckmark, Beretta Neo, Ruger Bearcat, S&W 617, and similar are all very good. I've heard of and have seen problems with the SIG Mosquito and Walther P22s (just my opinion and experience).

Just do not mistake a 22 as a good defense gun. It's better than nothing, but not by much*.



* "...but not by much" glosses over a lot of info. The terminal ballistics of the 22LR are dismal. However, that doesn't stop people from dying due to 22 LR gun shot wounds. The difference is time. If you shoot the goblin, but he lives long enough to stab you, then it's not really a win for you if he dies three days later. The goal is to deliver lethal force in such a way that the attack stops as soon as possible. That does mean you have intent to kill (lethal force and all), but your motive for doing so is in reaction to an attack. Killing for personal gain is murder; killing to live is not murder.

Last note: get training. Pay for lessons. Don't waste years of your life trying to learn how to shoot handguns from gun magazines. Put them away and learn from a good coach.

[Markbo]

GotToyota... how old are you? What part of TX are you in?

[sandwich]

if you plan on potentially using it for defense or carrying it someday I'd advise against the 22, its rather under powered for such use, I'd recomend a .380 over it, ammo is still relatively cheap and its fun to shoot and will still act as a good defense round, I'd make recomendations for a gun but I'm not sure what price range you are working with.

There is no reason to buy a .380 ACP. If he wants a full sized round he should start off with a 9mm, which is much cheaper than the .380 ACP. Buying a .380 to learn on makes no sense, since you get the worst of both worlds--a round with marginal power, and an expensive round, not to mention the fact that the reduced recoil of the .22 will help him learn proper grip and stance before he deals with guns that give a recoil.

A box of 100 round WWB .380 ACP at Walmart is $25. The same ammo in 9mm is $15. You do the math.

[GotToyota?]

After going to the local Cabela's to actually hold the guns, out of the 22's, I liked the way the Walther P22 felt the best, but when looking 9's, I became hooked to the Taurus PT111 Millennium.

So I believe that I've decided to go with a 9mm, so that I can buy a gun just once, so once I can CC, I can use that instead of purchasing another gun. I'm definitely decided on this one:

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/21_50_495/products_id/13492

Markbo: I'm 18 years old and I'm in the Fort Worth area.

-Matt

[gallo]

The .22 caliber offers advantages for a first time buyer. First, you can shoot a lot without spending much. Second, you don't develop flinches because recoil is hardly noticeable. If you learn proper technique you can practice a lot.

The bad thing about 22 gun is that most likely you'll want to migrate to a bigger caliber for self defense. So if you are planning on spending $300 on a .22 why not buy a 9mm and invest the $300 in ammo. You can buy approximately 2000 rounds of fmj at Wal-Mart for $300. This will give you a lot of ammo to practice and with a good instructor you'll learn proper shooting techniques.

My first handgun was a buckmark .22, then I migrated to an XD9. I started with the best intentions of going to the range twice week and as it turns out I make it about twice a month. In retrospect, I would have bought the 9mm and used what I spent on the .22 to buy 9mm ammo.

Guns are not like grade school. You don't have to buy a .22 and then move on to a bigger caliber. You can get a 44 magnum as your first gun, just take the time to learn to use it safely.

[Caipirinha]

Toyota, I hate to disappoint but you need to be 21 to buy a handgun. You may want to divert your attention to a shotgun or rifle for now.

[Black Knight]

While a quality 22 is a good starter gun for learning the basics and for fun, it may not be good for defense. While it is better than no gun it would not be my first choice. With possible defense in mind I have a couple of recommendations that may fit the bill. First if you are interested in a revolver I would say a quality 38 Special such as a pre-lock Smith & Wesson model 10 is hard to beat. The model 10 is capable of +P ammo good for defense, has a relatively mild recoil with most ammo, and a size that is easily handled by most folks. In a pistol I would recommend a good quality 9 mm. The Beretta 92 is coming down in price, easy to handle and clean. There are many good 9's out there but the Beretta is what I carry on the job. Remember for defense you will want a good hollowpoint bullet (provided you're not in NJ where they are seriously frowned upon). What ever you choose be sure to get the best quality you are able to.


Since you're 18 you will have to have a parent buy it for you and give it to you as a gift until you reach 21. I don't know the state laws in Texas but you may be able to do a face to face purchase. I would recommend your father initially buy the gun, fire it a few times and keep it about a month or two then sell it to you.

[GotToyota?]

I'm going to have someone that is 21 buy the gun for me, then I'll be registering it under my name. I believe you can do it face to face in Texas, as well.

-Matt

[SASS#23149]

The shorter barrreled pistols you are looking at are great for carry,but will disappoint you.....at first...for plinking.It takes most shooters a lot of time and shooting to plink accurately with shorter barreled guns.
If plinking were higher on on your list than carrry,I'd go a smidge longer on the barrrel length.

[GotToyota?]

Any thoughts on that Taurus PT111?

[RustyShackelford]

Hi
Welcome to TheHighroad.org! My first handgun was a Ruger SP-101 DA only .357mag. This 5 shot stainless steel workhorse would be a good idea for your first purchase, ;). You can use light/low recoil .38spl loads(that cost less too) to gain your skills then move up to the .38spl +P, +P+ JHP rounds, then use the full power .357magnum rounds(if you dare!!!, :uhoh:). The Ruger SP-101 as a long and respected history in the US market. It weighs more than other .38/.357 snub revolvers out there but the strengh makes it stand up to rough use and +P/magnum loads.
A DA only semi auto or striker fired pistol like the Glock or XD may be better but must first walk before you can run, ;).
Watch out for the nutbars and mall ninjas who may give you some wild stories. Stick to a simple DA only revolver or a well made(IE not cheap, :barf:) DA only hammer fired semi auto pistol.
Shoot a few rental guns too and find out what your local LEOs use. If you get a CC license/permit you may want to pack the same type of weapon. Some LEOs might go ape-#%&* if you have a drawn gun, but if they see the same duty weapon it might give them pause. Massad F Ayoob, a sworn LEO and firearms/tactics expert gives the same advice.
:cool:
Rusty
www.Ruger.com www.Ayoob.com
PS: If you buy a new .38/.357 use the well made Speer Gold Dot 135gr +P .38spl or the Corbon 110gr +P+ .38spl . A good .357magnum round is the 125gr JHP for CC/home protection use.
PM me here if you so desire...
:D

[cyclist]

I'm going to have someone that is 21 buy the gun for me

That would be a strawman purchase.

Start with a .22LR rifle or a shotgun. Good for hunting or target shooting.

[Craig_VA]

"I'm going to have someone that is 21 buy the gun for me"

Matt, as cyclist said, that is called a strawman purchase. To expand on the situation - it may or may not be legal in your state to engage in such a purchase from a private individual. I don't know, and you need competent advice on the topic in your state.

If, however, the purchase will be from a licensed dealer (FFL). then as I understand it, such a purchase is illegal under federal law. A FFL dealer who knowingly participates in a strawman purchase is in a world of trouble legally, and both the real and sham buyers are also likely to be in for bad times.

Here in Virginia we have had to put up with PIs hired by NYC Mayor Bloomberg coming into the state "undercover" to attempt strawman purchases. They did this without proper coordination with federal or state LE authorities (and purportedly may have actually interfered with ongoing BATFE investigations). Goal was to "shut down" sources of guns that make it back to NYC illegally. Same teams were running around PA and other states. Got so bad, the VA legislature passed a law clearly making such rogue "undercover" activities a violation of VA statute.

As I say regularly, IANAL, so don't listen to anything I say in this advice except for the part on getting competent advice within your state.

craig

[gotarheels03]

Why not buy a used Sig? P228, 225 or P6.

[Wedge]

Get the .22LR and learn to shoot.

I wish I had bought mine first I put the most rounds through it.

I have a Walther P22, but I would recommend a Ruger Mark II or III.

[Calhoun]

If you save up a little, and do some searching, you can probably find something like a 9mm pistol and a .22 conversion kit for around the same price as most new pistols. Then you have the best of both worlds. A .22 for crazy cheap practice and a service caliber pistol for defense and range use. 9mm is the way to go for cheap center fire ammo also. CZ makes a great .22 conversion kit, there are conversion kits for 1911s, and I think for Glocks also.

Just a thought.

[waterhouse]

I'm going to have someone that is 21 buy the gun for me, then I'll be registering it under my name. I believe you can do it face to face in Texas, as well.

A couple things:

You cannot legally have someone go into a gun dealer and have them make a purchase for you. It is a felony.

Second, just so you know, there is no gun registration in Texas.

3rd, being 18, you are correct that you can buy the gun face to face in Texas privately. This cuts down your selection to guns you can find used in the paper or online, but it would be perfectly legal for you to find a gun from a non dealer and go purchase it yourself. In fact, if there is no dealer involved, then you can send your 21 year old friend to buy it for you if you want (this would be unnecessary, as you could legally do it, I just think it is another funny part of gun laws.)

My advice: start searching the local paper or the classified section here (do a search for DFW to find local sellers) and get yourself the .22.

You've got 2+ years before you can carry a gun in this state for self defense. If you buy a quality .22, you can put many thousands of rounds downrange in the next 2 years and then sell the .22 for about what you paid for it.

During those 2 years, you will probably run into a bunch of people at the range. If you are polite, some of them will be more than happy to let you shoot their guns. When you turn 21 you'll have a much better idea of how certain guns feel in your hands, and which ones you shoot best.

[Caipirinha]

In addition to what's already been brought up regarding straw purchases, another thing to consider is that you won't be able to buy handgun ammo until you're 21.

[PC40]

Since the OP said "gun/pistol"...

Even before the age issue came up, I was going to suggest a .22 rifle, like the standard Henry lever action. 30-some years ago my first gun was the Ithaca-made version. I'd do it all over again. I could outshoot (and annoy) my buddy with his .22 Dan Wesson at any distance beyond a few yards. 40-50 yard shots offhand were easy. Feed and fire anything, unlike an autoloader. With practice the lever can be operated quickly and remain on target - and practice is a lot of fun!

I gave the Ithaca to my little brother a long time ago, but I missed it so I bought the Henry - http://www.henryrepeating.com/h001_leveraction.cfm

and Bud's has it - http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/36_107/products_id/36596

A long time ago, it seems, the .22 rifle was the recommended entry level gun - especially the single shot. More emphasis was placed on accuracy and marksmanship than speed.

Having said all that a Ruger 10/22 wouldn't be a bad choice...

[1911NM]

If a family member wants to buy a gift for you, ie. your first gun, that's not a straw purchase. I do agree with a number of other posters, a rifle, or longer barreled target type pistol would be a better choice to learn with. Short barreled, concealable type defense weapons are more difficult to shoot due to shorter sight radius, etc. Just my .02

[Revolver Ocelot]

toyota, i tried making the sane type of purchase when I was 19 (have somone thats 21 buy t for me and register it in my name) and I was warned that if I were to attempt that and were caugt me and my friend could go to jail as it is considered a felony as much so as having an unregistered weapon, I highly advise against doing this as if you are caught you could permanantly lose your right to leagally own firearms.

[greenparrot]

I see your name is Toyota.


Well Toyota = Glock basically. The Glock is the "Toyota" of the firearm world.