[Dollar An Hour]

I live in a 1250 sqft townhouse, and share an adjoining wall with a neighbor.

On gun forums I often read about a shotgun being regarded as the ideal HD weapon. Is that maybe not the case for everybody? Will a shotgun's length be a handicap in my smaller house?

My current HD piece is a Glock 19 with night sights - reliable and quick handling. Would a shotgun really be a step up? :confused:

[ArmedBear]

I have a pistol in our townhouse, too. I think it's a better choice. A shotgun's size and length would be a handicap here, with two stairways and a lot of sharp corners. At least with a single projectile, I can probably hit the target. With buckshot, I can hit the target with several projectiles and still send a few more through a wall or window.

And I'm a shotgunner. I hit fast-flying birds with the things. I like them. I just don't think that a shotgun is my best choice here, all things considered. Ditto for a carbine, though I have and like carbines, also.

[Fast Frank]

Will a shotgun's length be a handicap in my smaller house?

You aren't going to go running through the house looking for bad guys to shoot, are you?

[pete f]

not really, but a shotgun does present some advantages to a homeowner as well. In a smaller TH, loading the gun with say BB or T shot, will reduce the likelihood of hurting someone in an adjoining space, or if you hit a window with an errant shot, where as a 9mm out the window might hit someone across the drive or yard. a long gun, that is a combat shot gun is very easy to aim under stress and delivers a much more incapacitating blow.

[Threecard]

Living in a townhouse, unless you use Glaser or similar "safety slugs", your pistol rounds will go through walls into the next place. Ditto for a shot gun with any appreciable buckshot in it.

My mantra for home defense is have a weapon--and hole up.

What I mean is, if you hear the bump in the night, arm yourself, and go to your kids (assuming you have them). Take them into your room. Assuming you're convinced that someone in is the house, call 911.

They can take the TV

They can take the stereo.

If they step into your room, that's their choice.

That being said, the sound of the slide of a pump gun being racked and a loud "get the F out of my house"! can do wonders to change someone's perspective.

I'm not clearing a house to see if there are bad guys there...nor to protect my possessions. I'll hole up and protect what is important.

[nathan]

Actually I see shotguns as perfect in rural settings where you have great latitude to swing and fire those buckshots and slugs and not worrying about where those pellets would end up.
A pistol is practical in apartments and urban setting. Just my opinion though.

[barneyfife.357]

wel if you share an adjoining wall with your neighbor, then being the neighbor I would rather you use a shotgun, I mean with the exception of a slug most pellets will be "stopped" or slowed enough after going through the wall not to kill me on the other side. where as even a 9mm more so than a 45 would travel right through most walls I have seen in smaller houses in cities

[Threecard]

wel if you share an adjoining wall with your neighbor, then being the neighbor I would rather you use a shotgun, I mean with the exception of a slug most pellets will be "stopped" or slowed enough after going through the wall not to kill me on the other side. where as even a 9mm more so than a 45 would travel right through most walls I have seen in smaller houses in cities


I agree. Anything short of a slug would be better than most handgun rounds, at least 9 mm and larger. But double ought buck is pretty ugly.

[shoup dawg]

I'm on this board because I recently got into shotguns. I've been wanting a gun for sometime and decided that a shotgun was the best and most practical as I heard it is better for less penetration. I took a shotgun class this past weekend. While the instructor makes a living training LEO and civilians alike (this was a civilian shotgun hd course) he said that a handgun is a better hd weapon. One of the main reasons was manuverability and he proceeded to show the class a shooter's turning radius with shotty vs. handgun. He also showed how a shotgun telegraph's your exact location as you go around a door whereas with a handgun you don't. He further stated that a bad guy sees you before you want him to see you with a shotty. He stated that a bad guy sees you with a handgun only when you want him to see you...presumbly right before you shoot him.

I told him that the only reason i got a shotgun was because I thought it the best option for preventing over-penetration. He said that was a lot of bs made up by shotgun and shotgun ammo manufacturers. He said that any bullet loses 80-90% of it's power upon impact with something substantial.

However, in my opinion, a shotgun is lesser penetration than a bullet fired from a high powered rifle or even a handgun.

Another thing he did teach was you have more movement shooting a shotgun from the hip vs. shoulder. It takes a lot of practice to aim right, but not only is it zero pain to your shoulder, but you get better mobility in a house fight.

That being said, I'm still probably going to get a handgun.

[nathan]

Colt 45 acp at bedside table with mag's full. Plus another mag's full.

[chieftain]

If you choose a handgun for a true Home Defense situation, when you have a longarm available, Darwin has a place in history for you.

On your own ground, your home, you should know the difference from a bump in the night, and some one rambling around your house. If you don't, your defenses are suspect, and you must learn your own ground, intimately.

If you have folks in the house, only a Darwin wannabe would go looking for them, go defensive and wait for the cavalry. Even if it is a long time, by going defensive you will be fighting from cover and concealment with usually superior weapons.

Second, almost every hand gun round will penetrate to a greater degree than my #1 buck.

Go figure.

fred

[frontgate1]

Threecard
One of the first senseable posts I've seen on home defence.

[walking arsenal]

Some one once told me that if you had to shoot indoors, do it from a kneeling position if it was available.

Or down or up a stairs.

That would make your rounds travel at an angle so that they were less likely to hit folks laying in beds next door or in adjacent rooms.

Always kind of thought that was good advice.

As far as shotguns go. Maybe try a low recoil tactical load?

[Dave McCracken]

My $0.02.....

I'm the only hardcore shotgunner at home. For the others, there's DA 38 and 357 revolvers everyone can shoot and has shot.

I prefer a shotgun because.....

They dump an incredible amount of energy into a target. Even the lowly 410's ME rivals the 45 ACP, well known as a stopper. One shot stop probability is about 99%. You don't get better than that.

Under stress, a shotgun's a lot easier to shoot well than a handgun.

Doubt that? Set up a COF at the max distance possible inside your home, run in place until you're breathing hard, then shoot the COF fast in low light.

Do this with both your shotgun and handgun using duty ammo. Even if your handgun's an accessorized custom piece blessed by both the Pope and Col Cooper, and your shotgun's a bone stock Model 88, you'll find the scores educational. Maybe frightening.

And note the misses. If there's none you're either truly a Bad Dude or the COF's way too easy, probably the latter.

Shotguns are terrific defensive weapons, when used by shotgunners. With all due respect, not everyone talking about shotguns on the Net qualifies.

[ArmedBear]

loading the gun with say BB or T shot, will reduce the likelihood of hurting someone in an adjoining space

As well as the bad guy.

Dave is right about energy dump of the entire load.

However, if the projectiles won't go through a wall, they won't go through a leather jacket all that well, either. With a shotgun, you're dealing with a lot of individual projectiles, not one. Each individual projectile has limited energy, unless you use large enough shot.

[plumberroy]

Join Date: 06-23-06
Posts: 16 depends on your place

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Living in a townhouse, unless you use Glaser or similar "safety slugs", your pistol rounds will go through walls into the next place. Ditto for a shot gun with any appreciable buckshot in it.

My mantra for home defense is have a weapon--and hole up.

What I mean is, if you hear the bump in the night, arm yourself, and go to your kids (assuming you have them). Take them into your room. Assuming you're convinced that someone in is the house, call 911.

They can take the TV

They can take the stereo.

If they step into your room, that's their choice.

That being said, the sound of the slide of a pump gun being racked and a loud "get the F out of my house"! can do wonders to change someone's perspective.

I'm not clearing a house to see if there are bad guys there...nor to protect my possessions. I'll hole up and protect what is important.


Threecard you a dead on things are replacable also that plan puts the law the solidly on yourside
On your own ground, your home, you should know the difference from a bump in the night, and some one rambling around your house. If you don't, your defenses are suspect, and you must learn your own ground, intimately.

If you have folks in the house, only a Darwin wannabe would go looking for them, go defensive and wait for the cavalry. Even if it is a long time, by going defensive you will be fighting from cover and concealment with usually superior weapons.

Taking the fight to an intruder puts you on shaky ground legally in a lot of places plus It may allow bad guy between you and loved ones witch is not acceptable
Cheiftain is also right on the fact that you should be able to walk though your home in the dark with a blind fold on IMHO A lock on the door of you defence room is a good ideal too
Never under estamate the intimadation factor of the sound of a pump gun racking a shell into the chamber it is all that is neede to end 99% of the confrontations
Roy
Disclaimer : this is the opinion of a middle aged hillbilly plumber that has been down the raod a time or two and are based on my personal knowledge and experiences offered to hopefully help you since we live in a free country you have the right to have a different opinion, Some one asked the question I am just trying to help

[EHCRain10]

dont overestimate the sound of a pump racking a shell either.
it is a very intimidating sound but it also gives the bad guy a chance to know where you are

[scout26]

Better then Mythbusters.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/theboxotruth.htm

Check out some of his tests on walls with various guns.

[Megiddo]

As Scout26 said... here is their article with the "Box O' Truth": http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3.htm

[Threecard]

dont overestimate the sound of a pump racking a shell either.
it is a very intimidating sound but it also gives the bad guy a chance to know where you are

Agreed that it does give away your position. However, If I'm in my room with my family and racking the gun and giving some rather rude and loud commands don't make them leave but instead cause them to advance on me, I think it's likely they had more on their minds than just burglarizing my home from the beginning.

[chieftain]

Agreed that it does give away your position. However, If I'm in my room with my family and racking the gun and giving some rather rude and loud commands don't make them leave but instead cause them to advance on me, I think it's likely they had more on their minds than just burglarizing my home from the beginning.

BINGO!

If they leave great! if they don't you are ready for them. Either way the result will be the same. Your family is safe.

Go figure.

Fred

[Markbo]

If you choose a handgun for a true Home Defense situation, when you have a longarm available, Darwin has a place in history for you.


Yeah... at the top of the list of species that will survive. That is a very silly statement chief.

[trackaddict88]

Why not both a handgun and a shotgun? Can't I have both? :D

In all seriousness the shotgun in the corner doesn't take up much room but can't really compare to the Glock under the pillow for little used space. Besides, I may not have time to reload!:D

[ArmedBear]

In the grand scheme of things, we have to balance risks and rewards, costs and benefits.

A shotgun can end up in the hands of an intruder very easily, especially if I'm not at home when he breaks in. I don't care to come home to face the muzzle of my own 870. But if I put it in a safe, it won't do me much good if I really need it NOW.

A pistol, OTOH, I can lock up in a quick-access safe, keep it loaded and easily available to me at all times, while not providing a weapon to someone who might use it to kill me (or have it discovered by someone dumb nosing about my house, or by someone's kid looking for the bathroom, or whomever).

If you have a place to stash it, and your home lends itself to long gun use, by all means, use a shotgun. It will stop an intruder quite well! But there are other factors to consider in a real-world situation. And a gun that's not loaded and available doesn't do anything for you, either.

[ltetmhs]

shotgun-defense, handgun-offense

[Javelin]

Wow I just read that article from the box of truth and it has seriously changed my thoughts on pellet selection. I am only going to use 00 or 000 buck in my HD shotgun. And it still wont penetrate as many walls as a 9mm!

:)

[Threecard]

Why not both a handgun and a shotgun? Can't I have both?

In all seriousness the shotgun in the corner doesn't take up much room but can't really compare to the Glock under the pillow for little used space. Besides, I may not have time to reload!

In my totally imagined (and I hope it stays that way) scenario, the wife has the handgun. She's better with it than I am anyway!

And if that doesn't deserve a big grin, I don't know what does!:D

[trackaddict88]

You're right! :D

[chieftain]

Yeah... at the top of the list of species that will survive. That is a very silly statement chief.

Only silly to those that have never been in a firefight. Those of us that have been in firefights, would never use a pistol if given a choice of long arms. No professional will knowingly go to a firefight or probable firefight without a long arm if available. NONE!

The reason is that compared to even realatively weak fighting rifles Caliber like the AR15 fighting handguns are pathetically underpowered. Hand gun power is a myth. If you think handgun caliber is the question, you don't understand the problem.

More penetration, with less power. That is a what a handgun gets you.

shotgun-defense, handgun-offense

Shotgun/rifle's for fighting, Handguns are for convenience. AS the guru's of virtually all tactical schools will tell you, the handgun is only to fight back to your rifle/shotgun, or because a long arm is not available.

In home the shotgun is much safer to use in respect to over penetration, and more effective on flesh and blood VCA's that may come calling than any fighting handgun.

Wow I just read that article from the box of truth and it has seriously changed my thoughts on pellet selection. I am only going to use 00 or 000 buck in my HD shotgun. And it still wont penetrate as many walls as a 9mm!

Bingo!!

I use #1 inside in either my dog eared coach double gun, or 1st two up of the 7 in the tube of my 590. Followed by all 00 buck, with 5 slugs on the stock and another five 00buck in the pouch. (to have the #1 buck first up you load those two last in the tube/magazine)

Number 1 Buck is the lightest buck the FBI recommends using.

Go figure.

Fred

[Lee Lapin]

Well, let's see.

Glock 19 = 9mm = .356"
Projectile weight, up to 147 grains
MV = 1000- 1200fps

12 Ga = .730
Projectile weight- one ounce (or more)- 1 oz = 437.5 grains
MV = 1200- 1600fps

I'll take a 12 gauge, thanks. With a heaping side order of 'been shootin' one all my life' plus some 'good training and practice too.'

But what I choose should have little to do with what anyone else chooses. People differ, circumstances differ. Use what you are best with for HD, and if you want to learn a different platform, get some GOOD training (not all training is good training) and then PRACTICE what you learned until it is second nature.

And please don't fall victim to all the myths...

lpl/nc

[Markbo]

Only silly to those that have never been in a firefight.

Color me lucky then - along with 99.99(9999%?) of the population. Obviously if you are planning on going into a firefight, you choose the best tool and sidearms are just that.... side-arms... not primary small arms (rifles). No argument there... the old never take a knife to a gunfight metaphor.

But my point was you do not take into account the situation, size, dimensions, angles, darkness and vicinity of neighbors, shared walls, etc, etc, with your previous statement. There is no way that your statement is valid for every person, their family and their personal living situation. It was too simplistic and in many, many, many scenarios it is not only a viable option it is a better option.