No-Gun School Zones!


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Ultrachimp
January 19, 2008, 01:51 PM
Yay for mine!

INCIDENT: Robbery

LOCATION: [near my friend's dorm:eek:]

WHEN: Friday, January 18, 2008 at approximately 7:40pm

SPECIFICS: On Friday evening at about 7:40pm a student was walking in the
area north of [my friend's dorm in the heart of the residence halls]. The victim was approached by the suspect
who displayed a handgun and demanded her purse. The suspect then fled the
area towards [streets]. The victim was not physically injured.
The victim is missing a large dark brown "Coach" brand purse.

Suspect Description: Black Male; 6'0-6'1; early 20's; thin build; wearing
blue jeans, red sweatshirt with a hood (hood down), black jacket

PRECAUTIONS:
Avoid walking or jogging alone and never walk or jog alone after dark.
Always choose a well-lit path and avoid dark or vacant areas.
Carry a whistle to summon help.
Be alert to your surroundings. If you suspect you are being followed,
run in a different direction; go to the other side of the street and yell
or whistle for help; or head quickly to a lighted area, a group of people,
or an Emergency Telephone.
If you are confronted by a thief, give them what they want and don't
chase them as they leave. Report suspicious persons or activity
immediately to the Police.

I'm so glad we've got these precautions to keep us safe! (Although blowing a rape whistle at a guy is something that will actually just serve to piss him off - if I have any friends get hurt over this stupid advice I'm filing a lawsuit against the campus police).

Huzzah for gun-free school zones!

They never fail! (pic not related)
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2007/04/18/us/18cho-2-600.jpg
Yeah guize, Cho here, just wanna give a shout out to gun-free sk00l zones, they work reel well!

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highorder
January 19, 2008, 02:04 PM
in poor taste, IMO.

Ultrachimp
January 19, 2008, 02:17 PM
in poor taste, IMO.

I'm sorry.

It's meant to shock people into realizing just how useless gun-free school zones are.

I guess posting it here might be preaching to the choir - I'll delete the pic if other people say it's not really useful.

NG VI
January 19, 2008, 02:21 PM
yeah it is in poor taste

politicalgeek
January 19, 2008, 02:24 PM
this is The High Road, remember. Do what you think is in your best judgment. The point here, though, is to engage in mindful debate. I think the intent of your post is there, the image adds nothing.

Maybe you should have talked more about:

The school where this occurred, demographics, state etc.
Tell us what is being done to change the mindset there.
Maybe something about the victim, if available. Is she eligible to carry concealed in your state otherwise? Has she considered applying for a license, if the state allows? What other means of self defense has she considered or uses? (Obviously a knife or pepper spray to a gun fight does no good) These might not be available depending on how much was reported.

B yond
January 19, 2008, 02:25 PM
I'm not offended, but you are preaching to the choir.

Easy victim -excuse me- gun free zones are illogical, whistles won't protect you from anything but silence.

highorder
January 19, 2008, 02:27 PM
I guess posting it here might be preaching to the choir

that was my second thought. but, there must be a way to turn your intent into some form of activism. Think globally, act locally, as the saying goes.

Werewolf
January 19, 2008, 02:43 PM
Offensive? Some of you guys need to grow thicker skins.

The OP IS preaching to the choir here. I'd suggest he go post exactly the same thing over on the Democratic Underground.

It'd be taken down pretty quick but it might - just might - get one or two folks attention and open their eyes just a little wider.

akodo
January 19, 2008, 02:55 PM
yes, he is preaching to the choir, but the picture is accurate, chow was not stopped by any signage man can create. He could have been stopped with some of man's other creations however

Winchester 73
January 19, 2008, 03:05 PM
Please remove the picture.
This lunatic has had enough posthumous publicity to last all our lifetimes.
To me,the fact we're the choir is immaterial.
But the choice is yours of course, Ultrachimp.

Werewolf
January 19, 2008, 03:19 PM
This lunatic has had enough posthumous publicity to last all our lifetimes.And maybe that picture can help undo some of the harm he did? The OP is on the right track he just needs to switch over to another one down the line where his message may have an actual impact.

Winchester 73
January 19, 2008, 03:42 PM
And maybe that picture can help undo some of the harm he did

Werewolf,are you Ultrachimp's designated mouthpiece?I was addressing him in my post, not you or anyone else.That should be obvious.You had already made your position clear in a previous post.
But I suppose you'll chime in again and the OP will remain silent.
Go ahead counselor.

bogie
January 19, 2008, 03:52 PM
I wonder...

Do you think a picture of he-who-should-not-have-a-name with the caption "Virginia Tech Was Also A No Self Defense Zone" would be effective printed on a sticker, and slapped onto various "no guns" signs around campuses, etc?

Yeah, it's a sticker. Welcome to the world of guerrilla activism.

ornithoid
January 19, 2008, 03:58 PM
Offensive? Some of you guys need to grow thicker skins.

The OP IS preaching to the choir here. I'd suggest he go post exactly the same thing over on the Democratic Underground.

It'd be taken down pretty quick but it might - just might - get one or two folks attention and open their eyes just a little wider.

I agree. I am not offended by it.

Instead, what offends me is the intransigence that people display when they see what happened at Virginia Tech and still insist on victim-disarmament. THAT is what's offensive. THIS is just a way to shock them out of that kind of stupidity.

I agree that it's too thin-skinned to say that this painful reminder should be removed. Self-censorship like that is a symptom that WE feel that WE are doing something wrong -- and we're NOT.

TCB in TN
January 19, 2008, 04:03 PM
I am not Ultrachimp or his designated mouthpiece, but my .02 is that for years we have taken the "high road" and allowed the anti's to set the tone of the debate and we have struggled to hold the line. Perhaps a little "shock" therapy is in order. I would not personally have went that way, but I see nothing wrong with it. As the choir we all DO know what the current laws do, they do nothing but create criminal safety zone and keep us all in danger, perhaps it is time to take off the kid gloves and really fight back. That image might help some to understand, how useless these type of laws really are. I really do not see it offending anyone or causing someone to turn against our cause who is not already there, while it very well might be enough to get the attention of some who might otherwise ignore the truth.

Mannix
January 19, 2008, 04:05 PM
There's really no need to "shock" us. You're kind of preaching to the choir on this one.

mekender
January 19, 2008, 04:30 PM
unfortunately not talking about things like this and not showing pictures of the people that do these evil heinous acts leads to complacency... its just like with the 9/11 attacks... everyone is so afraid of hurting or offending someone that the images from that day are rarely shown.. and the problem is, they need to be shown... people forget all too quickly how horrific the actions of some people can be and they need to not just be reminded, they need to have it pounded into their head... people are all to quick to forget that there are truly evil people in this world that have no qualms about disrupting their pretty little lives...

it was so bad after 9/11 that not only did they quickly stop showing images of the events... but they went out of their way to remove pictures of the towers from movies, magazines etc... oh the horror of making people remember!!! instead, we erase it and pretend that it didnt happen, and give medication to anyone that is disturbed by it...

its like a movie i watched once about fighter pilots... after a pilot was killed, they never spoke his name, it was easier to forget that he had existed than it was to embrace the fact that he was lost...

sorry, but reminders like this are needed, even among those of us that "know" the danger... i personally go out of my way to make sure that i never forget...

RobTzu
January 19, 2008, 04:36 PM
Blow your whistle, so more people with whistles will come? Is the point to amass a choir of whistles to fend off evil doers?

Tribal
January 19, 2008, 04:40 PM
I disagree completely about the need to "shock" people. The killer's name, image, and any memory of him needs to be erased from history. People do this sort of thing because they want attention. Respectfully, Ultrachimp, please edit your post to remove his name and picture.

I went to Virginia Tech and I was in Blacksburg (though not on campus at the time) while the shootings happened. Never Again.

Crunker1337
January 19, 2008, 04:40 PM
Shocking people into listening to you is not an acceptable tactic. Gain support through logic and compassion.

Winchester 73
January 19, 2008, 05:04 PM
This lunatic has had enough posthumous publicity to last all our lifetimes.QUOTEAnd maybe that picture can help undo some of the harm he did?

I will try to take The High Road this time.

Cho was a copycat.Klebold and Harris were two of his hero's.Are there future copycat's out there who view Cho as their hero?Maybe,maybe not.
History seems to indicate yes.
Images of Cho in full battle mode are not a positive, IMO.It has nothing to do with PC.
But its America.If a person(s) feels the pictures will have a positive effect on awareness or whatever,fine.
And Werewolf,I'll run my four miles first before I post ,the next time I feel the need to blow off steam.
After 3,000 plus posts you deserve better.Mea Culpa.

bluestarlizzard
January 19, 2008, 05:13 PM
believe or not i agree with both sides of this little argument. factual and un hyped record of the Virginia Tech Shooting and the murder should not be erased from history. you don't erase history, you learn it and then you try to learn from it. while i agree that flashing his picture over national news networks for two weeks straight was way over the top, denying who that kid was and what he did is, as pointless as claiming that the holocaust never happened.
and ignoring or denying history never works.
as for the picture here, well, thats part of the presintation. shock value is not needed on THR. not to mention it seriously detracts from the rest of your post.

Ultrachimp
January 19, 2008, 05:22 PM
Blow your whistle, so more people with whistles will come? Is the point to amass a choir of whistles to fend off evil doers?

Have you not witnessed the full power of the whistles? The shock and awe they can bring is amazing!

Maybe you should have talked more about:

The school where this occurred, demographics, state etc.
Tell us what is being done to change the mindset there.
Maybe something about the victim, if available. Is she eligible to carry concealed in your state otherwise? Has she considered applying for a license, if the state allows? What other means of self defense has she considered or uses? (Obviously a knife or pepper spray to a gun fight does no good) These might not be available depending on how much was reported.

The idea wasn't to tell ya'll where I live :P

The point was just to bring another example of the no-self-defense zones failing. This is pretty much the most important issue to me - it's *my* life that's on the line here.

disagree completely about the need to "shock" people. The killer's name, image, and any memory of him needs to be erased from history. People do this sort of thing because they want attention. Respectfully, Ultrachimp, please edit your post to remove his name and picture.

I went to Virginia Tech and I was in Blacksburg (though not on campus at the time) while the shootings happened. Never Again.

Erasing things from history is a great way to make sure they happen again. Why else do you think Iran is so adamant that the Holocaust never happened? We don't try to erase Hitler's name from history - the Holocaust museum exists to help us remember what happened.

"Never Again" - it will happen again and continue to happen - if not at VTech, then at other places (such as my school :uhoh:) if we don't change gun laws to be less conducive to spree killers' objectives.

Respect +1 to Winchester 73 for admitting that he was in haste. People don't tend to do that on the web.

And Werewolf - I've been banned from the DU a few times already - I'll see if I can't boot 7 proxies up and get a few images up:cool:

EDIT:

I have decided not to remove the picture. It seems to have gotten ~50/50 approval/disapproval and since it's already been up we might as well leave it up. Sorry to any who are offended by it - that wasn't the intent.

bogie
January 19, 2008, 07:05 PM
I think we _can_ positively use images like that.

"Protect Your Children From People Like Him - Get a Concealed Carry Permit!"

"Ask the manager if he thinks this sign would stop someone like him!"

Revolver Ocelot
January 19, 2008, 07:22 PM
though the pic in combination with the comment underneath were imo in poor taste I feel he has made his point as far as the bigger picture is concerned, yelling or blowing a whistle is not going necissarily stop a person who wishes you bodily harm. Somthing more needs to be done about making these "no gun school zones" safer.

novaDAK
January 19, 2008, 07:29 PM
PRECAUTIONS:
Avoid walking or jogging alone and never walk or jog alone after dark.
Impossible. I have an evening class that ends when it is dark outside. I have to walk across the campus at night to my dorm.
Always choose a well-lit path and avoid dark or vacant areas.
Most areas have lights but some don't.
Carry a whistle to summon help.
I carry a 3.25" folding blade along with my fists. I'm my own help.
Be alert to your surroundings. If you suspect you are being followed,
run in a different direction; go to the other side of the street and yell
or whistle for help; or head quickly to a lighted area, a group of people,
or an Emergency Telephone.
I'm always aware of my surroundings. If someone is walking behind me I either walk further to one side or the other so I can see them in my periferial vision...or I stop and pretend I'm getting a phone call, and stop and let them pass in front of me. And those "emergency telephones" are a joke. It will just let the campus police know where the body is by the time they can respond.
If you are confronted by a thief, give them what they want and don't
chase them as they leave. Report suspicious persons or activity
immediately to the Police.
No. If I give them what they want, they'll just keep doing it. Besides what they want, is MINE, NOT THEIRS. Even if you give them what they "want" odds are they're still not done with you yet...

Big Boomer
January 19, 2008, 07:55 PM
I don't mind the thread but please remove the pic of the shooter. He wanted to be immortalized, let's not give him that.

The less people know his face the better, let the name of the incident stand. I know that there was a UT sniper many years ago but I could not tell you the name or recognize the face, that's the way it should be.

And yes, gun free zones are a joke. Same with the drug free zones, might as well put a sign up and just let everything come together...NO CRIME ZONE all criminal actions in this area are illegal! :rolleyes:

highorder
January 19, 2008, 08:00 PM
the pic itself is historical; the offensive part is the caption you wrote, speaking as the dead man, suggesting that you have any idea how he felt about the gun free school zone, as well as a satirical thank you to those in charge.

clearly it was meant to inflame, why you turned the fires toward thehighroad, I don't understand.

electrode1998
January 19, 2008, 08:11 PM
Somebody in adminastration please shut down this useless discussion!!!!

If the origional post had some real details such as even a state the robbery took place it might make some point.

Since the origional post had NO USEFULL INFORMATION and this kind of crime happens all over the country many times a day or night, PLEASE KILL this thread!!!!

Thank-you,
Electrode 1998

bogie
January 19, 2008, 08:22 PM
Everyone has ideas and opinions.

Few have a strategy.

Fewer still will work with another's strategy.

Go watch television or play a video game.

Tribal
January 20, 2008, 02:01 AM
No need to erase history; just remove the part where the murderer gets fame and attention. "The killer" should be sufficient. There's no need to know what he looks like or what his name was.

Ultrachimp
January 20, 2008, 04:21 AM
the pic itself is historical; the offensive part is the caption you wrote, speaking as the dead man, suggesting that you have any idea how he felt about the gun free school zone, as well as a satirical thank you to those in charge.

clearly it was meant to inflame, why you turned the fires toward thehighroad, I don't understand.

The caption was meant as a slap in the face to those who really think gun-free zones protect me.


Since the origional post had NO USEFULL INFORMATION and this kind of crime happens all over the country many times a day or night, PLEASE KILL this thread!!!!

The state and all that are unimportant - the details I chose to omit are my own business, as I enjoy keeping at least some level of anonymity while on the internet.

The point was that it happened at MY school.

I was basically just venting my frustration to people who understand.

mike101
January 20, 2008, 06:34 AM
While sometimes distasteful, the truth is never in "poor taste", so I'm not offended by it. The antis have no problem using pictures of Cho when pushing their own agenda.

Of course, the antis find anything they don't agree with to be in poor tatse.

TCB in TN
January 20, 2008, 11:11 AM
Shocking people into listening to you is not an acceptable tactic. Gain support through logic and compassion.


I agree that this is the preferred tactic, but unfortunately emotional people tend to ignore logic, reason, and common sense. Focusing on the emotion IS what they do. I have learned over the years that you need to deal with people on a level that they understand, and in the case of many antis this type of thing is just about the only thing that they understand.

highorder
January 20, 2008, 01:32 PM
The caption was meant as a slap in the face to those who really think gun-free zones protect me.

well, none of those people are here, but you knew that when you posted. So, who are you trying to slap in the face?

Ultrachimp
January 20, 2008, 07:14 PM
Quote:
The caption was meant as a slap in the face to those who really think gun-free zones protect me.
well, none of those people are here, but you knew that when you posted. So, who are you trying to slap in the face?

Lurkers. Every forum with any decent amount of traffic has a couple.

highorder
January 21, 2008, 04:59 PM
go ahead and slap those lurkers, some of us will continue to bury them with logical, critical thinking.

;)

Gaiudo
January 21, 2008, 05:16 PM
The killer's name, image, and any memory of him needs to be erased from history.

Doesn't quite go with your statement "never again"... if we remember this kind of stuff vividly, perhaps it will keep them from happening again.

I do think that, for impact, if I were to post your message elsewhere, I would take out the lines under the picture. The picture says more than enough all by itself. Or else, just follow it with "VTech was also a no-gun zone."

Kind of Blued
January 21, 2008, 07:33 PM
It has nothing to do with the picture being offensive. It is obvious to me that any backlash is attributed to the caption that you created to accompany the photograph. It simply isn't a mature and strong supporting statement for our side in the whole Gun-Free Zone topic.

CNYCacher
January 21, 2008, 07:40 PM
It's meant to shock people into realizing just how useless gun-free school zones are.


You are shock-preaching to the choir, dude.
And since this is the webarnet, the townsfolk are peeking in the windows wondering *** is up with the new preacher, and they are calling the 1993 FBI on us.

BobbyQuickdraw
January 21, 2008, 07:45 PM
I didn't really think it was in poor taste and I'm against most forms of censure. For too long have men had to bite their tongues and bottle their feelings at the perceived risk of hurting someone's feelings. But onto the subject at hand.

I attended college in Washington DC, in a nice area. The American University. Really expensive neighborhood, close to Maryland border. One of the safest places in the District.

We also had at least 3 armed robberies, a dozen criminal trespasses, uncounted thefts, vandalism, and breaking and enterings. There was also a guy running around exposing himself and grabbing at girls. Oh and there was a drug related shooting at off-campus student housing.

DC, of course, and the school, of course, are both Gun Free Zones. Hallelujah.

eric_t12
January 21, 2008, 08:34 PM
I agree. I am not offended by it.

nor am i.

it just (to me anyway) shows the ignorance of (and dangerous situations created by) no school zones, because even idiots can get guns, and if you'd just LET THE NON-IDIOTS CARRY LEGALLY you could give them a shot at not being hapless victims...

my .02

MM
January 21, 2008, 10:01 PM
Back in the mid-late '70's, while stationed in Europe, I took the opportunity to tour Dachau. Dachau was the location of a Nazi labor camp. It's existence, like others throughout Europe was denied by the local populace, both during operation and after these camps were liberated.
Dachau stands, today, restored so as not to be forgotten. The phrase "never again" is displayed in several laguages. Never again will this happen unless we forget it DID happen.
Whatever the reaction to this thread's original post, "never again" applies. We must remember the school massacre, as well as every other heinous event like it, so that we know we cannot allow subsequent brutalities to stand. And we must take the lessons they teach us to make every attempt to prevent same.
MM

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