102 year old "Tacticool" carbine!


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.45Guy
January 19, 2008, 02:21 PM
Well that is if tacticool means plunking whitetails at less than 100 yards. Pretty good looking for a Winchester 1905 made in 1906. I'll have to snap some better photos later, but here she is in all her glory.
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g27/aguy123/1905004.jpg
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g27/aguy123/1905007.jpg

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highorder
January 19, 2008, 02:39 PM
nice! what caliber?

.45Guy
January 19, 2008, 02:42 PM
.35WSL, which is actually easier to find than 8mm Lebel... Go figure.

Gewehr98
January 19, 2008, 02:56 PM
Since we're talking tacticool, here's my 112 year-old "tactical" (starting to be a dirty word with me) carbine in 6.5x53R, as issued to Romanian cavalry troops: :D

http://mauser98.com/dutch95-3.jpg

mustanger98
January 19, 2008, 03:00 PM
.35WSL, which is actually easier to find than 8mm Lebel... Go figure.

What does "WSL" stand for?

.45Guy
January 19, 2008, 03:10 PM
Winchester Self Loading

Vaarok
January 19, 2008, 04:29 PM
Don't tell the antis, those things can shoot down biplanes!

351 WINCHESTER
January 19, 2008, 04:51 PM
You can make your ammo from .38 special or .357 cases. Bullets are easy to find too - do a google search.

.45Guy
January 19, 2008, 04:52 PM
I'm not so worried about the antis, as Mrs. .45. I'm sure she'll appreciate another oddball money pit rifle. Oh well, maybe she'll appreciate the fact that I can't get into any trouble while I'm stuck at the reloading bench!;)

.45Guy
January 19, 2008, 04:54 PM
Thanks .351! I've got a gent in Stevens Point that will turn down the rims and cut the extractor groove. But I may still break down and buy a box of shells from Old Western Scrounger.

351 WINCHESTER
January 19, 2008, 05:18 PM
I don't have any load data for the .35wsl, but I know it's quite a bit less than the .351 which generates 45,000 psi. I would think 2400 or 4227 would be 2 good powders to start with. I've loaded my .351's down very mild and they still functioned fine ( I'm talking going from 19gr. 2400 down to 10 grs.).

Beware of old data as the burn rate for 2400 is faster than it used to be so reduce accordingly. Now you need to get a .351 and a .401 and maybe a .32self loader.

.45Guy
January 19, 2008, 05:54 PM
Double tap...

.45Guy
January 19, 2008, 05:56 PM
If I could find a nice 1910 .401 I probably would. I have a 1910 copy of "Fur, Fish, and Game" with a full page ad. The tag line was, "Hits like the hammer of Thor!":p

Spiggy
January 19, 2008, 05:59 PM
;) it must be practical before it's tactical, amirite?

351 WINCHESTER
January 19, 2008, 06:09 PM
Yea, but it's a WINCHESTER. I bought a bunch of ammo years ago for $20. factory boxes of 50. My friend reloads so it's not that bad. The biggest problem is finding your fired brass. These self loaders really throw them.

Besides the winchester self loaders are probably the most reliable ever and never break. Compare a firing pin from a 07 winchester to anything else and you'll see why they don't break. They were over built. I stand corrected, the wood does crack, but really that's it.

.45Guy
January 19, 2008, 07:16 PM
Well, I did break down and order a very expensive box of ammo from OWS.

351 WINCHESTER
January 19, 2008, 08:41 PM
That's ok, he needs money too. I have a book somewhere called "The Forgotten Winchesters". It covers the self loading winchesters and has loading data too. It's a very detailed book. I think my friend has it as we were going to make up some loads for my .351 using .357 brass. If you can find that book buy it. I found mine online for about $25. Don't loose your magazine cause they are scarce as hen's teeth (but look at the quality) - never again to be duplicated.

.45Guy
January 20, 2008, 01:05 PM
I pulled her apart today to give everything a good cleaning and oiling. I must say this thing is built like the proverbial brick outhouse! Few moving parts, and what parts there are seem to be way oversized. I might need a new buffer though.
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g27/aguy123/1905008.jpg
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g27/aguy123/1905009.jpg

Gewehr98
January 20, 2008, 02:35 PM
The action is balanced only for a given bullet weight and velocity - it has a very narrow window for proper operation and cycling, which you'll soon discover.

Folsom State Prison used them as guard guns for many years. When they switched to the Mini-14GB, the prison's .351WSL Winchesters wound up on the Sacramento local gun market. People were having fun getting ammo and reload info, and when Dangerous Dave still owned Old Western Scrounger (Now a Gibbs/Forgett enterprise) he was doing a brisk business in just that chambering alone. ;)

351 WINCHESTER
January 20, 2008, 05:26 PM
If you find a source for a new buffer please let me know. Whatever you do (unless you have the patience of Job) do not take out the recoil spring. Wolff sells them for the .351, but I've heard they are a real pain to get back in.

.45Guy
January 20, 2008, 08:07 PM
351, how bad do these things mangle brass? I have 80 rounds on the way, and I have my mini lathe and a pile of .38 spcl brass... But Henry Ford I'm not. I'd like to think you could get quite a few loadings out of the brass with it running pretty low pressures, but if it comes out looking like I picked it up off of the livestock pen floor at state fair...

351 WINCHESTER
January 20, 2008, 09:20 PM
They are really quite easy on brass. The biggest problem is finding it once it's been shot. They throw it far with full loads. You should be able to download quite a bit and still get her to eject and feed. These rifles were "overbuilt" as you can see, but I wouldn't try to hot rod it. Any load data you may find will probably be "obsolete" such as loads for 2400. The new 2400 is faster than the old stuff so load down accordingly.

.45Guy
January 20, 2008, 09:51 PM
Post clean up pic:
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g27/aguy123/1905011.jpg

WAID
January 21, 2008, 02:11 PM
Does this one count too?

winchester musket (http://www.rarewinchesters.com/gunroom/1894/M94-0503008/94-503008-01.JPG)

I suppose it's too long for modern tacticool standards though:D

ldp4570
January 21, 2008, 02:36 PM
Hell yeah!!! That one counts too!!!!! Way cool Winny Musket!!!!!

.45Guy
January 21, 2008, 03:29 PM
What the hey, I braved the snow to get another pic.
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g27/aguy123/1905002.jpg

cmidkiff
January 21, 2008, 04:17 PM
Looks just like a Win63!

My great uncle had a 63 that I learned to shoot with. Been looking for a nice example for years, but man, are they expensive! When Taurus started making a 63 clone, I had to pick one up. It's a decent shooter, and a pretty true replica, but it's sure not a Winchester!

Did Winchester ever make an auto-loader carbine of a similar design in a currently popular center-fire caliber? Something just like that in .38spl would be just the ticket.

Nice find!

silverlance
January 21, 2008, 04:20 PM
stunning rifle!

and i need to get myself a mannlicher too

.45Guy
January 22, 2008, 09:17 PM
One more question: Are SLR's lefty friendly, or am I going to be eating hot brass?

.45Guy
January 24, 2008, 04:23 PM
The big brown truck stopped by today with 20 rounds of 170 grain FMJ from Old Western Scrounger! The 60 rounds of SP from Buffalo Arms are on backorder, but atleast I can take her out and see how she shoots:D!!!:D
Here's a comparison of a .35WSL and .30 carbine round...
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g27/aguy123/Scan0002.jpg

Cocked & Locked
January 24, 2008, 05:15 PM
what did you use to clean up the wood? thanks!

.45Guy
January 24, 2008, 05:29 PM
Rubbed it down with some denatured alcohol, and then gave a few coats of linseed oil with copious rubbing with a soft cotton cloth.

Cocked & Locked
January 25, 2008, 08:39 AM
OK, thanks! Looks great.... :what:

.45Guy
January 25, 2008, 04:31 PM
Well hopefully I'll find out if she shoots as well as she looks tomorrow. Maybe I'll hit the range before I go to the safety academy for the practice PAT. Yes, I finally received the results of the written exam for police officer!

.45Guy
January 26, 2008, 02:17 PM
Well, went to the Bob&Rocco show today. I managed to find a rear sight elevator, and 50 vintage Remington 180grain SP's for the same price as 20 rounds from OWS. Also picked up a can of 4227 and some small rifle primers. So it wasn't a total disappointment.

.45Guy
January 26, 2008, 04:32 PM
Well, I went back to the show and picked up a Remington model 8 to keep the Winchester company! Now I have yet another obsolete round to load for... :banghead:

mustanger98
January 26, 2008, 04:34 PM
.45Guy, One word... "variety". This is what makes it all so much fun.:cool::D

.45Guy
January 26, 2008, 04:39 PM
I know, the $200 price tag was too much to resist! He has another MINT model 8 for $325 as well... Nope...only need one... For now!;) Here's the beatiful part of the $200 model 8... It has a poorly fitted recoil pad, but here's the rub... They didn't cut the stock to fit it! They shaved a piece of brown rubber to fit the contour of the butt! So a new steel plate and she's good to go!

.45Guy
January 26, 2008, 07:24 PM
Here's a crappy dead battery in the camera picture:
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g27/aguy123/1905010.jpg

.45Guy
January 26, 2008, 08:34 PM
:D
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g27/aguy123/model8002.jpg
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g27/aguy123/model8001.jpg

.45Guy
January 27, 2008, 05:02 PM
Well, I froze my butt off going to the range today. I almost wish I'd taken the snowshoes as it was drifted pretty high today! The Remington was by far the shining star, but the Winchester only needs the front site drifted. Of course I didn't have my brass punches with me though.:cuss: Well now it's time to enjoy an evening of loading some 180 grain softpoints for the Winchester. And maybe now I'll pay a little more attention... I had the flaring die in the press instead of the de-capper and fubar-ed one case...
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g27/aguy123/Mitch001.jpg

.45Guy
January 27, 2008, 05:52 PM
Now one big happy family!
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g27/aguy123/stuff002.jpg

mustanger98
January 27, 2008, 07:24 PM
You went back and got the other Model 8?:D

.45Guy
January 27, 2008, 08:43 PM
Yes, yes I did!

.45Guy
January 29, 2008, 08:03 PM
Well, now it has happened. My tastes have changed. I'm dumping most of my collection and focusing on these obsolete autoloaders. Now I'm working a deal for a n 81 in either .300 Savage or .35 Remington for a 336 in .35... Yeah, I'm hooked!:D

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