Is #4 really enough to protect someone?

[DAVIDSDIVAD]

I recently saw the size of a #4 shot, and it got me thinking, will that really be effective in the horrific event that someone is trying to kill me and I have to fire in their direction?

I mean, it doesn't seem all that bigger than #6, which you all seem to BOO so adamantly.


I live in an apartment with the usual: thin walls.


I was wondering, though; is #4 seriously good enough to save my life?

[blutarsky]

you say "#4 shot"... are you talking birdshot or buckshot? if the former, then of course not. lots of people say #4 buck is good, most use 00 buck -- i read somewhere that #1 buck is a best compromise, but i only have a few boxes of that and mostly have 00 buck as a go-to.

[DAVIDSDIVAD]

....

I see.

While that is an interesting point about the how aerodynamic friction decreases, wouldn't the decreased mass also play a role?

PS, I'm just joking about this scientific mumbo jumbo.

[highorder]

I think you misunderstand. One of the most common HD/ combat loads is #4 buckshot, not birdshot.

I wouldnt recommend birdshot for home defense, unless it's all you have available.

[DAVIDSDIVAD]

I guess I do misunderstand.

I was unaware that there was a difference between #4 bird and buck.

What is the difference?


EDIT: nevermind, I see that #4 buck is about .1" greater in diam. than the birdshot, and weighs a great deal more.

Learn something new every day.


Thanks for the clarification, guys.

[Markbo]

The size of the shot.

[Markbo]

Sorry I couldn't help myself. :D

Here is a good resource:
http://www.shotgunworld.com/amm.html

[blutarsky]

this has been posted before, but a quick search on google turned up the following:

http://www.firearmsid.com/jpgs/A_dist1.jpg

bottom row is buck.

edit: Markbo beat me to it, and i like his link better. i'm gonna have to bookmark that one.

[highorder]

to add, I believe the middle row is steel shot?...

I'll take 20 1/4" (#3buck) pellets over 9 9mm (OO buck) pellets for home defense.

[spiroxlii]

4 birdshot is fine for home defense...










If you have marauding duck gangs in your town.

[Javelin]

4 birdshot is fine for home defense...


I have to agree for home defense. Based purely on the fact that your engagement will be so the pattern will be a ball of lead basically.

:)

[ArmedBear]

It won't be a "ball of lead" ballistically, at least not WRT terminal performance. Read Box o' Truth for a description of a guy shot at fist-fight range with #6. He had a small wound, and while he had to go to the ER, no major damage, considering he'd been shot by a 12 Gauge a few feet away.

The pellets know they're pellets, as soon as they contact something. They act like a bunch of individual pellets, each carrying no more than a few ft-lb, because that's what they are.

[ltetmhs]

All I know is I wouldnt stand in front of it.

[ArmedBear]

I try not to slice my finger off with an Xacto Knife, too. But I won't try to use one to stop an intruder.:)

I've watched birdshot bounce right off pigeons, not people, pigeons.

[ltetmhs]

Well said. your are pretty smart for being from california. Anyone in my house will be met with a nice big slug in the forehead.

[DAVIDSDIVAD]

Well said. your are pretty smart for being from california. Anyone in my house will be met with a nice big slug in the forehead.

And I'm sure some gentlemen prosecutor in Georgia would be delighted to find this post after you do that.


Thanks for that picture, Blutarsky; it's pretty handy.


Could someone do me a favor and close this thread?

[ltetmhs]

My apologizes

[Javelin]

I just read the box of truth. I am going to say 00 buck now... I am now a believer that #4 is not big enough to be 100% effective. But don't get me wrong... if Jow Schmo shot me with a 3" shell full of #4 shot at point blank range it would ruin my day in a hurry.

:)

[DAVIDSDIVAD]

You don't have to apologize, man; I didn't intend to insult you.

It's just that we're [gun owners] supposed to be courteous, responsible people who should use guns to support the safety of all citizens.

If I can stop some bum thats breaking into my house without harming him, I'm gonna.

We've gotta stop letting people see us as rambo types.

That's not what we're supposed to be.

[kmrcstintn]

http://www.tacticalshotgun.ca/ballistics_shotgun.html

[DAVIDSDIVAD]

Thanks, kmrcstintn, that's a very interesting link.

[Eb1]

Posted by DAVIDSDIVAD:::
use guns to support the safety of all citizens.

If I can stop some bum thats breaking into my house without harming him, I'm gonna.

We've gotta stop letting people see us as rambo types.

That's not what we're supposed to be.

This is just your opinion. In my state I am responsible for no one but me and mine. I am not suppose to use my gun to protect you. I do not have any obligation to do that.

If I find someone in my home, and feel threatened I have a legitimate reason to use deadly force in my state. It is on the books.

I think your post is a little opinionated (EDITED. THE OTHER SOUNDED LIKE AN ATTACK. SORRY.) without any forethought of others opinions and state laws.

I think that you have an opinion of who you want to be. I am not a rambo type, but I will tell you that I am protected by state law to defend myself with any means necessary. If that includes deadly force then so be it.
This does not constitute a stereotype of "RAMBO." It sounds more like an educated and protective citizen to me.

[harbinger_j]

This was an interesting site
http://www.tacticalshotgun.ca/content_nonsub/gelatin_testing/bird_4_rem_heavy_dove/bird_4_heavy_dove_rem_c.jpg
I think the comments were the most appropriate description of #4 shot:
"Small sized birdshot such as this #4 heavy dove load is a poor choice for deployment with a tactical shotgun. Wounds inflicted from birdshot tend to be gruesome yet shallow as they lack the penetration required to reach vital cardiovascular or central nervous system structures."
- http://www.tacticalshotgun.ca/content_nonsub/gelatin_testing/bird_4_rem_heavy_dove/gelatin_shot_4.html

[DAVIDSDIVAD]

This is just your opinion. In my state I am responsible for no one but me and mine. I am not suppose to use my gun to protect you. I do not have any obligation to do that.

If I find someone in my home, and feel threatened I have a legitimate reason to use deadly force in my state. It is on the books.

I think your post is a little opinionated (EDITED. THE OTHER SOUNDED LIKE AN ATTACK. SORRY.) without any forethought of others opinions and state laws.

I think that you have an opinion of who you want to be. I am not a rambo type, but I will tell you that I am protected by state law to defend myself with any means necessary. If that includes deadly force then so be it.
This does not constitute a stereotype of "RAMBO." It sounds more like an educated and protective citizen to me.

Who's talking about obligations?

Believe me, I live in Texas, it would be easy to wash my hands of the whole thing because my state has good laws concerning self defense.

Common courtesy, and respect for the life of one's fellow man is not an obligation.

Who's to say that the hypothetical man breaking into your house won't find God in prison, and become a totally different man when he comes out?


Granted, some people need killing, but that's not for me to decide.

If the other guy will get out of my house when I yell at him, or wait outside for the cops, that's just fine by me, if he decides that whatever he's after is worth dying for that's his choice, not mine.

I'm not talkin about legalities, I'm talking about taking the higher road.

[Eb1]

The truth of the matter is. The criminal had up to the point that he decided to enter my home to find GOD.

We better just agree to disagree.

It is not my intentions to be a law enforcement officer to a home invader. A simple "DROP TO THE GROUND!" might cross my mind, but then again that might come across as BANG! I will let the criminal decide weather they can run or not. None of this is incriminating. The State has provided laws for me, to protect me so that I can protect what is mine.

I just watched a video on gangs in prison. Here is my opinion. People that (edited. again came across as an attack) who send criminals to prison for education, keep my kids from going to college.

[dvdivx]

I don't know why there has to be so many threads on the same thing but oh well. Lead (not steel) BB or T shot are the best for sheetrock apartments. Any buckshot with a 0 in it or worse a slug is going to go through more than one apartment. Lead BB goes 11 inches into gelatin and T shot should go even farther. Both would take care of the job at any distance you're going to find in a typical apartment/condo while minimizing over penetration. Hevi-shot T shot is expensive but why not give the perp the very best. I wouldn't go with anything smaller than BB though.