my new remington 870 police magnum is a lemon!!!


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boots
January 19, 2008, 08:35 PM
:fire::fire::fire:

i just purchased a remington 870 police magnum...picked it up from the gunshop one week ago....brand new in box...

i have yet to fire a round from it and it is already having problems....i wanted to work the action in, so i filled the mag tube with some a-zoom snap caps and cycled it...the shell wouldn't release from the tube...hmmm...

i found the problem was that the left side shell latch wasn't releasing the round...the left action bar was engaging the shell latch correctly and was depressing it but the latch would catch on the edge of the rim...so i tried some live rounds, because i thought maybe the snap cap rim diameter was out of spec...i tried with some sellior and bellot 12g rounds and the same thing happened...tried some remington ammo, and the same thing...and not only was i having feed problems, i was also having double feed problems...

so i took the shotgun completely apart and took out the trigger assembly, bolt everything...i was left with the receiver and the shell latches...i noticed that the left side latch was loose, so i firmly pressed it back into it's space...it snapped back into place, and i was surprised that i could do it with my hands alone....the edges of the latch cutouts in the receiver were peened over to hold the actual latches in, but the left side was kind of loose...well, i reassembled everything with the latches in place and recycled the action....the first couple of runs, everything seemed to be fixed, but after a couple of more cycles, the same problems resurfaced....i dissassembled once again, and the left side latch was loose again...

either the latch cutouts in the receiver are too big and perhaps out of spec, or the shell latch itself could be out of spec...i have a marine magnum that runs perfectly and i took it apart to see if the left side latch was loose....nope, tight fit and i couldn't pry it out of the receiver with my hands alone....in the police magnum, i noticed that i could pop the latch in and pry it out of the receiver with my fingers alone...i couldn't do this with marine magnum....


i know what the problem is, but how do i fix this??? i do not have the equipment to peen metal...and why should i have to repair a brand new gun???

i am losing faith in remington....i've had 3 870s in my life and 2 have had problems....i thought the police models were supposed be extra carefully inspected...i am going to try to exchange my gun for another if possible...


any suggestions???


thank you for your time...

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proud2deviate
January 19, 2008, 08:46 PM
I'd suggest you call Remington, 'cause that ain't right.

If their customer service is like I've heard, they should pay shipping both ways, and get it straight for you. You're right, no 870, and damn sure not a Police, should be doing that.

MAX100
January 19, 2008, 09:18 PM
I have been saying that Remington QC has been lax for the last couple of years or so. Many have disagreed with me. Remington will make it good. Send it in to a Remington service center and they will take care of it. I would demand that Remington pay to have it picked up. You have a lot invested in this gun and it is over priced to begin with. Maybe Remington will get it's act together soon. Prices go up and quality goes down. You are the second post in the last week that has had problems with their New 870 Police.


GC

Javelin
January 19, 2008, 09:21 PM
ACK! That is not good. I am sure they will fix it. Be sure to ask for shipping costs too.

:)

boots
January 19, 2008, 09:41 PM
i bought it from an internet source....and i'm thinking about asking for an exchange, but i wonder if i would have to do the paperwork all over again...

scorpionjcd
January 19, 2008, 09:56 PM
Its allways best to buy a gun in person and to see if their might be anything wrong with it before buying it. You might be able to return it easyer and get another.

boots
January 19, 2008, 10:11 PM
i would prefer i see the gun first before i buy, but i live in california and local gunshops usually charge way too much...so these days, i buy off the internet and use my local shops just for transfers...so most of my guns have been bought off the internet sight unseen...i only buy new guns for this reason, and the police mag was new...just not good...

Robert Hairless
January 19, 2008, 10:18 PM
Do you mind if I ask where you got it and what you paid?

boots
January 19, 2008, 10:32 PM
olde english outfitters and i paid 399 shipping included...

http://www.oeoutfitters.com/scripts/default.asp

bofe954
January 19, 2008, 11:27 PM
If you bought it new Remington will fix it. Source doesn't matter. Call them, arrange shipping.

GRB
January 19, 2008, 11:46 PM
i know what the problem is, but how do i fix this??? i do not have the equipment to peen metal...and why should i have to repair a brand new gun??? You should not have to repair it at all, I am surprised youe ven ask that question. Contacting Remington will get the problem on the way to being solved. last time I checked they stand strong behind their products.

All the best,
Glenn B

Robert Hairless
January 20, 2008, 12:51 AM
olde english outfitters and i paid 399 shipping included...

Good price.

I agree with everyone else: call Remington directly, explain the problem, and ask them to make it right.

Boots, are you sure it's a Police Magnum? That site doesn't list one but it does list the Remington 870 HD Synthetic 12Ga.

boots
January 20, 2008, 01:25 AM
yes i'm sure it's a police magnum...marked on the receiver...the company i bought from is olde english outfitters, but i didn't buy off of their website....they listed the police magnum on auction arms...

boots
January 20, 2008, 01:29 AM
and i think i'll send it in to remington for repair...

but i worry about one thing...when i had an express hd model, i had to replace the left latch and i did it myself...just popped the old one out with a screwdriver and put the new one in by placing the latch in the receiver, covered the area with some cloth so i wouldn't mark marr the metal, and used some pliers to pop it back into place...

i fear that since the cutout is out of spec, all the factory will do to repair it, will be to peen the area severely...if i ever had to replace the latch, then i would have to send it in again....and i feel that a shell latch is simple enough to repair myself...

boots
January 20, 2008, 01:34 AM
here is an email i sent olde english outfitters:

hello, name is XXX. i recently purchased a remington 870 police magnum from you guys...the auction number was #XXXXXX.

well, i examined the shotgun at my local gunshop where the transfer took place and determined it was indeed new and in good condition...

when i got home i tried to cycle the action with some rounds to test the function and it malfunctioned. the magazine tube would not feed the rounds into the chamber. i dissassembled the gun and pinpointed the problem...it was the left side shell latch. it was loose and the latch cutout in the receiver was too big for the shell latch...i restaked the latch and reassemble the gun...i cycled a few times and the problem seemed fixed, but it started to exhibit the same problem after a few more cycles of the action. i took the gun apart once again and the latch was loose...

i believe that the gun you sold me has a manufacturing defect and would like an exchange for a new gun. i realize that you state that i should examine the gun before taking ownership to prevent this type of situation, but the problem with the gun could not be diagnosed until it was fully dissassemble...something i could not do at the gunshop before taking delivery...

please note that this gun has not even been fired...when i return it, you can check the bore for yourself...it is in the same exact condition as it was sent to me...please make this right...

i will attempt to call you early next week and when you get this email, please reply as soon as you can...

i would really appreciate a phone call also...i will ttry to call you guys myself, but you can call me at these numbers:

work (xxx)xxx-xxxx ----M-F 8am-5pm

and my personal cell phone : (xxx)xxx-xxxx


thank you, XXX


p.s. when you mailed my shotgun, you actually sent it to my home address an not the ffl dealer address that was provided...i was informed by my ffl dealer that this is highly illegal...please be more careful next time...

boots
January 20, 2008, 01:38 AM
and their reply:

You need to call the store and talk to Kirt Cornell the Warehouse Manager on Monday about the return.

I wish you had not restaked the latch and notified us of the problem before you did that on your own, this may cause us not to be able to return the shotgun to Remington. You doing that makes it not in the condition you received it or in the condition we received it from Remington.

and my reply:

i did not damage or even mar the metal in any way...when i say restaked, i just mean that i put the latch back into the latch cutout into the reciever...nothing has been altered in any way...it is in the exact same condition as i received it...an unfunctioning shotgun...let me reiterate, nothing has been altered...everything has been restored to the condition it was when i received it...

MAX100
January 20, 2008, 02:45 AM
It seems strange that they were able to sale a new 870 Police that cheap. Dealer cost on a new one is about $500. Retail is would be around $575.


GC

madcratebuilder
January 20, 2008, 07:29 AM
It seems strange that they were able to sale a new 870 Police that cheap. Dealer cost on a new one is about $500. Retail is would be around $575.


Something doesn't smell right.

i just purchased a remington 870 police magnum...picked it up from the gunshop one week ago....brand new in box...
i have yet to fire a round from it and it is already having problems....i wanted to work the action in, so i filled the mag tube with some a-zoom snap caps and cycled it...the shell wouldn't release from the tube...hmmm...

Have you stripped and cleaned and greased your shotgun yet. Any new gun needs complete cleaning when new out of the box.

boots
January 20, 2008, 12:12 PM
cleaning was not the problem...as i said, the left side shell latch will not stay put...

KINGMAX
January 20, 2008, 12:29 PM
looks as if this may have been a return or something out of the ordinary. Did you order this item, or buy it off the shelf??

nathan
January 20, 2008, 12:49 PM
Sounds to me its lemon thats why its priced low. Remington isnt perfect like in all things. They should honor giving you a new replacement.

boots
January 20, 2008, 12:58 PM
it's this one without the mag extension...it is a standard blued/wood model with 4+1 capacity...

http://www.pafoa.org/forum/imagehosting/125452bb8d7883c1.jpg

boots
January 20, 2008, 01:00 PM
and i really didn't like their response...they make it seem like i did something radical to repair the gun, but in reality, all i tried to do was put the latch where it's supposed to go, and when it was put back, it poppped right back out after a few cycles...

proud2deviate
January 20, 2008, 01:21 PM
Hmm, I'll give you $30 for the POS:p

Sorry, I really shouldn't poke at you. Again, I'd suggest you address your concerns to Remington directly. Compared to what you've seen from your worthless trading partner, Remington will probably fall all over themselves trying to make things right.

The seller's response was totally uncool, chastising you for a defective product. Completely the opposite of what it should be.

Fred Fuller
January 20, 2008, 01:27 PM
boots,

You said "...i restaked the latch and reassemble the gun.... Their reaction was reasonable, given your statement.

Given your description, you didn't restake the shell stop- you merely replaced it in its recess. Your statement was misleading, unfortunately. Therefore their (understandable) reaction.

Focus on the positive here- sounds like they are going to do right by you. Too bad you had trouble with a brand new Police gun, but it isn't over yet...

lpl/nc (...Cinderella 870s, people- look for Cinderella 870s... if you don't know how to shop for a good used 870, get help doing it, but buy good used 870s. I put another one on layaway yesterday, an older-model (pre-mag tube dimples, pre-polymer trigger plate) Express gun in pristine condition. Like I need another one- but I follow my own advice...)

Robert Hairless
January 20, 2008, 03:16 PM
Boots:

and i really didn't like their response...they make it seem like i did something radical to repair the gun, but in reality, all i tried to do was put the latch where it's supposed to go, and when it was put back, it poppped right back out after a few cycles...

Boots, in all fairness the dealer can't know anything more about that shotgun after you got it than what you told him. Neither can we.

What you told him and us both is "i restaked the latch and reassemble the gun. (http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=4106066&postcount=15)" The dealer's response to your statement is reasonable.

If you did restake the latch, you did do something radical to repair the gun and you probably voided the factory warranty. If you did not restake the latch, you shouldn't have said so: you confused the dealer, us, and the situation.

Olde English Outfitters is a reputable company. It's been in business for quite a while. Mitch English, one of the proprietors, is a moderator on the 1911 Forum as "Guy Sajer." Although I don't know him, he's clearly someone who spends his own time helping gun owners.

Whatever momentary gratification these angry complaints on the Internet might give the poster, they create a lot of sound and fury and rarely seem to accomplish anything except confusion.

Note: I wrote this message shortly after you posted your last message but was interrupted before I could post it. After I posted it I saw that in the interim Lee Lapin responded with my major point. He speaks good sense.

boots
January 20, 2008, 03:47 PM
well, sorry for the confusion..i guess i used the wrong words to describe the situation...

the latch popped out, i popped it back in with my fingers...it popped back out...better???

boots
January 20, 2008, 03:50 PM
bottom line is that i got a pos gun that would've got me killed if i needed it in a sd situation...i'm lucky i tested it...


as of now, i am extremely angry and i hope that these people send me a new one and i can send this one back...i don't feel i should have to send it in to remington for repair...i think olde english outfitters should handle the problem...the problem was not caused by me...they sold me a pos...if i had even fired one round, maybe i could be to blame, but this gun has not even fired one round, and it is not working...i'd rather get a new one from olde english outfitters, and let them deal with sending the defective gun to remington...as far as i'm concerned, the defect shouldn't even be my problem...

guy sajer
January 20, 2008, 05:27 PM
I'm sorry , but I don't know your name .

I don't mind handling this "out in the open" and I assume since I'm reading here you don't either .


I apologize for the mishap with the gun coming to your house ! Inexcusable and careless on our part ! :(

For those accusing us of selling used guns as new , please pause before you click the submit button and accuse someone of dishonesty when you don't know the facts . You've evidently had some bad dealings with the wrong dealers . As a family company in business since 1974 , we have a solid reputation in our OH,IN,KY area as well as with dealers and customers across the country . We sell 5-6k guns yearly and besides being dishonest , the amt of money we'd benefit by passing off a used gun as "new" is miniscule . Our family name is worth more than any dollar amount to us ! In short , we find it best to tell the truth ... As long as I'm explaining things , we bought 15 of them last year from a distributor closing them out . Williams Shooters Supply . Sold 7-8 in our store and the rest online . None left . It was a great deal for everyone(except the distributor) . We made money and the customers got a deal .


...i restaked the latch and reassemble the gun...
You need to call the store and talk to Kirt Cornell the Warehouse Manager on Monday about the return.

I wish you had not restaked the latch and notified us of the problem before you did that on your own, this may cause us not to be able to return the shotgun to Remington. You doing that makes it not in the condition you received it or in the condition we received it from Remington.
As for our response (I wasn't aware of any problem until this thread showed up) , I don't see anything out of the ordinary with regards to accepted online sales return procedures . If you're not happy with the product , return it in the SAME condition that it left for a full refund . After telling our web sales representative that you "restaked the latch" , I can see his position . His response also seems professional and not disrespectful in the least . He didn't say "no" , only that it may cause a problem with the return . He requested you phone Kirt our warehouse manager . Kirt would've conferred with me and we'd have made a decision and the situation would've been resolved .




as of now, i am extremely angry and i hope that these people send me a new one and i can send this one back...i don't feel i should have to send it in to remington for repair...i think olde english outfitters should handle the problem...the problem was not caused by me...they sold me a pos...if i had even fired one round, maybe i could be to blame, but this gun has not even fired one round, and it is not working...i'd rather get a new one from olde english outfitters, and let them deal with sending the defective gun to remington...as far as i'm concerned, the defect shouldn't even be my problem...
I believe a phone call to us in the beginning telling us that it won't cycle the shells would've saved you any extreme anger .

How about this ? Assuming the gun and packaging are undamaged & complete and there are no "smithing" marks , send the gun back and we'll send you a refund .

I don't see that we did anything to cause distress here , but I apologize that you had a bad experience involving our store .

The store is open on Monday 11-8 EST . I will let Kirt know you will be phoning to arrange it's return for refund . I will be back in the store on Tues 11-6 EST . 937-667-3315
Other contact info in my signature line link .

mitch english

nathan
January 20, 2008, 06:43 PM
I thnk he wants a replacement /a working gun , and not a refund.

boots
January 20, 2008, 07:16 PM
to guy sager,


i am hotheaded by nature, and apologize for taking my frustrations out on your business in public...i just assumed the worst about your business when the gun arrived at my house instead of the ffl address that was provided...i'm sure you are an honest man, and if possible, i would prefer an exchange rather than a refund...i used the wrong words when describing the situation and in no way did i change the condition of the gun....i didn't even use any tools to correct the malfunction...when i said that i "restaked" the latch, i was only refering to the fact that i popped the latch back into the receiver cutout with my hands...no tools were ever used...i can assure you that the gun is in the same exact condition as i received it...


i sincerely apologize for calling you out in public, as this was a matter that could have been easily solved over the telephone...your response on this forum shows me that you are willing to make this situation right, and i would still like to do business with you in the future...as i've said before, i would appreciate a simple exchange, but if a refund is all you can offer, i understand...

you know where to reach me, and thanks for your time...

boots
January 20, 2008, 07:28 PM
pm sent to guy sager

guy sajer
January 20, 2008, 07:32 PM
I thnk he wants a replacement /a working gun , and not a refund.
... , we bought 15 of them last year from a distributor closing them out . Williams Shooters Supply . Sold 7-8 in our store and "the rest online" .
:confused:


I understand your frustration and inconvenience . We will refund you as that is our only recourse . Please make arrangements for it's return tomorrow with our man Kirt .

Thank you .

dfariswheel
January 20, 2008, 09:19 PM
A loose shell latch is a factory defect and should be corrected.

Some observations:

$400.00 is a suspiciously low price for a new in the box Remington Police gun.
I saw actual dealer prices on Police guns last Fall, and the cheapest Remington Police gun had a distributor price of $480.00.
So, your FFL Dealer sold you a gun for about $80.00 LESS than probably charged them by the distributor they bought it from.

Something smells funny.

Second, a snap cap IS NOT suitable for use to check feeding of any gun. Snap caps are just that, snap caps.
If you want to check feed and cycling of a gun, you need Action Proving Dummies sold by Brownell's.
Unlike snap caps, action dummies are the EXACT size, weight, and even balance of real ammo.

Snap caps are undersized and offer no real aid in checking feed or cycling.

nathan
January 20, 2008, 09:45 PM
And to say it was sent directly to his address which is a violation of BATF and State laws. That even cause more question ... How can that happen? You send firearms by first checking the recipient is a legal arms dealer/FFL.

guy sajer
January 20, 2008, 10:13 PM
Something smells funny.
I believe I have explained the origin of the deal/price satisfactorily . What are you suggesting ? You want me to post a copy of the invoice ??

nathan
January 20, 2008, 10:28 PM
I see an employee isnt doing what he needs to do, i e , to double check if the recipient of said firearm is a FFL dealer.

MAX100
January 20, 2008, 11:09 PM
It sounds right what guy sajer said about how he was able to sale the 870 P so cheap. It is true, dealer distributors will mark down guns on closeout specials. RSR Group did the same thing a couple years back when they dropped Ruger and Navy Arms from their lineup. They were selling Ruger and Navy Arms firearms to dealers dirt cheap just to get rid of them fast. I was able to pick up some very good deals, basically stoled the guns, and was able to pass the savings on to my customers.

The QC problem with the 870P is Remington's fought and problem. Olde English Outfitters is getting blamed and having to clean up after Remington. It's part of doing business.


GC

Dave McCracken
January 20, 2008, 11:18 PM
Lee's right, again.

FWIW, the left latch on my 870TB would fall out when the TG was dropped. A good smith restaked it in about 5 minutes.

And, Amen on old 870s. Might look around for some more myself, heh,heh....

DevilDog0402
January 21, 2008, 08:38 AM
Get your money back and buy a Mossberg 590 :p

boots
January 21, 2008, 11:31 AM
i will be getting a refund...


they were very courteous on the phone and i foresee no problems with the return...they have even offered to pay for the shipping...


the problem can be attributed to remington itself and not the olde englishe outfitters business...when i initially purchased the firearms, they shipped my product in a timely fashion, and have done everything to make the situation right...i wish i had not talked about them in public, as they are very good people, who are willing to fix the situation as best they can...


and for the people saying that the price seems low, it is low because it is not the new parkerized police model with extension and fancy tactical stocks....it is a standard blued model with wood stocks and no extension...the price of 399 including shipping is indeed very low, but not suspicious...it just could've been a great deal for me...too bad i have to get a refund...


THANK YOU GUY SAGER...I WOULD DEFINITELY DO BUSINESS AGAIN IN THE FUTURE...

huduguru
January 21, 2008, 03:01 PM
Get a Norinco 982, 1/4 the price and it's a better weapon....:neener:

PMK
January 21, 2008, 03:10 PM
I to have lost faith in Remington guns, there QC is terrable, I spent bid bucks on a 11-87 sp 3.5 waterfoul gun, and it was the biggest piece of junk, and I was not about to try to have it fixed, because it has so many problems. It would jam 5 different way, how could that ever be fixed, i saw years of problems, and several returns. I traded it in on a winchester sx3, and it is 10X the gun hands down. I will never buy another Remington again, and i used to be there biggest supporter, and still own several older remingtons that do work right.

nathan
January 21, 2008, 03:15 PM
http://big5sportinggoods.shoplocal.com/big5/default.aspx?action=browsecategoryl2&storeid=2503914&CatTreeID=591161&L2CatId=591161&L1CatID=

Norc 982 on sale at Big 5 yall. The remy 870 and Mossberg 590 , too.

axeman_g
January 21, 2008, 06:51 PM
I hate to say this but I will... every person in this thread that hinted or insunated that Olde English and therefore Guy Sajer as boss where up to no good, trying to pawn off defective firearms for a "good" price or something worse need to pony up an apology. One tried and proven truism was just exampled here.... If your going to jump into something you know nothing about... keep your mouth closed. Or better yet... "It is better to keep ones mouth closed and appear the fool then to open it and remove all doubt." Ben Franklin.

Boots, I am glad you are going to get some satisfaction. I hope you picked up on the thought that with a little patience and improved communication most if not all conflicts can resolved quickly and ammicably.

CA2005
January 22, 2008, 04:10 AM
I think this point has already been made/proven, but I just wanted to add that Guy Sager and Olde English Outfitters are some of the best people I've had the honor of interacting with. I've been doing business with them for a decade now since USAF service "relocated" me to their area. They are 100% honest, good natured and genuine caring people with a steller rep throughout SW Ohio and beyond. I trust them to the fullest extent.

Boots, keep looking and another deal like that might emerge. You never know.

proud2deviate
January 22, 2008, 04:30 AM
I hate to say this but I will... every person in this thread that hinted or insunated that Olde English and therefore Guy Sajer as boss where up to no good, trying to pawn off defective firearms for a "good" price or something worse need to pony up an apology.

You're right.

While I wasn't overly impressed with the seller's initial email response, it has been shown that it was the result of a small misunderstanding/miscommunication.

In any case, my commentary about the OP's "worthless trading partner" was unduly harsh, immature, and rooted in ignorance. Mr. Sajer has my sincere apologies.

redneck2
January 22, 2008, 07:47 AM
While I wasn't overly impressed with the seller's initial email response, it has been shown that it was the result of a small misunderstanding/miscommunication.

In any case, my commentary about the OP's "worthless trading partner" was unduly harsh, immature, and rooted in ignorance. Mr. Sajer has my sincere apologies.
This is why I no longer work in retail. The dealer is going to have to eat this, even though he had no way of knowing the gun may have been defective. If somebody told me they'd done some home "gunsmithing", I'd be more leery than they were. I used to work in a gun shop. I've seem some of the fine work individuals have done, typically with a chisel and sledge hammer.

I can't believe the string of guys here that have accused him of being a thief, cheat, and liar. Seems like "my mind's made up, don't confuse me with facts" applies

i am hotheaded by nature, and apologize for taking my frustrations out on your business in public...

Controlling your emotions makes life much more enjoyable for yourself and everyone that has contact with you.

Robert Hairless
January 22, 2008, 12:00 PM
Guys, let's put this thread to rest. It's all over. The principals have come to an honorable resolution that satisfies them both. No need to keep the fires burning. Nothing more to see here.

scorpionjcd
January 22, 2008, 02:36 PM
Ive got a question. What is the chances of me getting a deffected gun from remington? Im planning on getting the MM and I dont want to pay that much money for something that is deffected.

19-3Ben
January 22, 2008, 02:48 PM
I'mpressive that Guy came here to the forum to deal with this out in the open, and make things right. I love when company people do that.

I remember when the president of Henry Rpeating Arms posted here for a bit. Really shows that they give a crap about their customer base.

Dave McCracken
January 22, 2008, 10:31 PM
Scorp, there's ten million 870s out there. My guess is 99.999999$ of their owners are happy with them.

Probs with 870s usually boil down to ammo glitches and Pilot Error.

MarshallDodge
January 25, 2008, 02:48 AM
FWIW, the left latch on my 870TB would fall out when the TG was dropped. A good smith restaked it in about 5 minutes.
So the latch on the 870 is not supposed to fall out? The latch fell out on the old one I just bought when I was cleaning it. It ran fine before I cleaned it and it seems to be fine afterwords.

Is it critical to the operation to have it staked in or is having it held in by the trigger assy. OK?

I hope I didn't derail the thread. :o :)

huduguru
January 25, 2008, 10:34 AM
In my opinion, the shell latch design on the 870 is it's biggest weakness,
not only the method of securing, but the design(specifically the right side
latch). Sometimes they will work when the stakes are loose, sometimes they won't. The average Joe cannot restake them without going to the gunsmith(or buying the tool).

As far as it being "a five minute job", most of the gunsmiths in my
area will take a long time and charge you a high hourly rate to do this job.
I prefer to have weapons I can replace parts on without the "services"
of a "gunsmith".

The design of the shell latches(specifically the right side). It is made
to prevent a double feed during the feed cycle. The problem is, if you
are using your 870 to do rapid fire of fairly heavy loads, the shell does
occasionally pop ahead of the right shell latch resulting in a click instead
of a bang. This is called "shell surge" and is supposedly cured by a heavy
magazine spring. Every 870 I have had(and my Norinco 982) has done this.
The heavy spring does not always work to prevent this from happening, however(it makes the shells harder to push in the magazine while pushing on the carrier, that's another issue with the 870). So in a rapid fire defensive situation, you might have to pump the gun again to get a round in the chamber, resulting in the loss of a split second which can get you killed in a gunfight.

The Mossberg shell latch that prevents double feeding actually rotates
into place so that a shell cannot be thrown forward during recoil. So this
"shell surge" cannot happen with the Mossberg unless the latch is
malfunctioning. Look at your 870 and see how quick the right shell latch
moves into place(the bolt is only back from battery by about 1in.) to block the next shell from feeding. The shotgun is still in recoil with heavy loads and combined with the slide coming back quickly, you can see how easy this can happen.

I know the proponents of the 870 are going to tell me that I'm not
pumping the gun correctly or I'm firing it to fast. Well, I'm a former
officer who has had extensive training with the 870, and the Mossberg
and 1300(personally owned). I have never had these issues with the other two. EVERY 870 I have fired has done this occasionally with slugs and
buckshot. Don't get me wrong, I like the 870 for it's feel, steel receiver
and longevity, but if someone is gunning for me and my family I'd
rather have the Mossberg. I'll keep the 870 for a hunting gun(which
it was designed for).

Dave McCracken
January 25, 2008, 02:20 PM
Marshall, it fell out a couple times without harm before I had it staked. Had it done just to eliminate the hassle. No harm done.

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