[Stinkyshoe]

I was just window shopping the other day. How does a .380 compare to other calibers? Is it very accurate in a small frame auto? What do you know about Makarov? Does Glock make a .380? What other companies out there make a .380? Would you carry one as a kitgun for survival/hiking? What would you use one for?
Thanks
Ss

[Matthew_Q]

.380 has been extremely accurate in the pistols I've fired it from (PPK/s and Bersa Thunder).

It's usually considered inadequate for self defense by most, but I say, if the gun is comfortable to carry, which will make you carry it more, then .380 is a good round.

None of the Naysayers will stand up to be shot by one just to prove how poor they are... go figure....

I'd only carry a .380, because my .45 is too big/heavy for my dress at any particular time. For plinking, most of the small, light pistols have pretty stout recoil, so they're not comfortable to shoot a lot. As for hiking and being out in nature.... if you're going to encounter anything larger than a bunny rabbit, you will want something bigger. I'd be carrying my .357 with some fullhouse magnum loads. :D

[MonkeyMan]

I used to carry a Mauser HSC in .380 and never felt under-gunned. After all, a hit with a .22 is better than a miss with a .44.

I seem to recall that Glock does make a .380 but it's not imported to the USA for whatever reason.

[mete]

It's significantly better than the 22/25/32 but no nearly as good as the 9mm. The cartridge was introduced 90 years ago and has been made in many guns. At this point the Sig is considered the best. It has been said that the 9mm is twice as effective as the 380 and having shot animals with both I would agree. As for a carry gun it is considered minimum cartridge but there are now a number of good , small , light 9s such as the polymer 9mm Kahr that make the 380 obsolete.

[Selfdfenz]

I have the Bersa. My first 380.
Great firearm for the $.

Before I got this pistol I always considered the 380 a non-starter for SD.
Too small a bullet, too slow, not enough stopping power etc.

The Bersa is accurate, dependable and pretty easy to carry. Speer GDs clock 1000 fps over my chronograph.

Having and shooting the caliber has changed my opinion. I don't feel under-gunned and since it is so easy to carry it's now my "everywhere".
Rather have one of my nines or one of the 45s on board but size of the 380 is hard to beat. If something happens to this gun I'll get another just like it.
JMHO

S-

[Matthew_Q]

I'd second the Bersa vote. I've got a duo tone Bersa Thunder. ABSOLUTELY reliable. Only have about 300 rounds out of it, but it feeds anything I give it. And it's pretty accurate, too.

And it only cost 200 smackers. Talk about bang for the buck!

[longeyes]

Why would you want a .380 if you could get, say, a Glock 26 in 9mm?

[J. Parker]

Exactly longeyes. If you can get ALOT more performance out of the same size pistol then what is the niche' of the 380/9X18 mak pistol? IMO, they are simply "fun guns". I've owned a half dozen Makarov's, a CZ83, a Browning BDA 380, a Walther PPK just to name a few.
I just couldn't bring myself to carry them for serious self-defense. There are alot of 9mm's out there that are lightweight, reliable and ALOT more potent than a 380 type pistol. I'd go with a 9mm over a 380/9X18 mak any day. Just my thoughts, John

[CZF]

My Glock 26 always feels like it is going to fly from my hands.
I much prefer the slightly larger- Cocked N Locked CZ83 for
my summer gun. 12-13 shots of Hornady XTPs. No powerhouse,
but i feel i gives good firepower. Hitting the target with this .380
is pretty easy due to the blocky PT Nites and low recoil.

The CZ83 is both big and heavy for a .380. That helps with recoil
control, and accuracy. Everyone raves about how smooth and light
the triggers are. I've never heard of someone wanting a trigger
job on the 83, nor have i heard of any broken CZ83s.

As for power. A CZ83 stoked with a load like Cor-Bon +P is not a
bad idea. The 9mm Makarov has a slight velocity edge over .380
ball ammo. I found the CZ83 MAK to have quite sharp recoil.

Reliability:The CZ83 was designed as a military pistol (vz82) and
is one reliable little gun. I know of one S. American police force
that uses the CZ83.

Concealment: While large for a .380. With a proper holster
like the HBE Switch pancake. The 83 tucks away nicely. Gives
you a service sized grip to grasp onto when drawing. You
are not clawing for a mini gun when you need the gun in
a hurry.

As for the .380 being obsolete? I know that a lot of folks carry the
neat little Bersa and other .380s.

CZ has the know how-to make a CZ83 sized mini 9mm. The RAMI
is still a few years away. Until then i'm happy with my slick '83.

[Marko Kloos]

There are many neat guns chambered for .380. The upsurge of pocket 9mm pistols has made many of the blowback .380s look too big and underpowered by comparison, but I still have a soft spot for many of them. The Beretta 84 & 85, Browning BDA, CZ-83, Walther PPK, and SIG P230/232 are among the classics of small defensive pistol design. I kind of see them as semi-auto Detective Specials, offering more than enough defensive capability for 90% of the armed citizenry out there.

I think that .380 is a plenty effective defensive caliber when used with premium hollowpoint ammo. A .380 stoked with Golden Sabers or Cor-Bons is a capable little gun, and the pistols in that caliber are often easier to shoot (and hit with) than some of the micro Nines.

I've started using my SIG P232 as a summer carry gun. The gun weighs 16 ounces, the slide is so flat that it's virtually unnoticeable in a thin IWB rig, and the gun itself has excellent sights, reliability, and accuracy.

http://www.frontiernet.net/~lendringser/images/p232_l.jpg

[coldshot03/04]

I have the Russian Makarov in 380acp. I have had it a little over a year. This thing does not malfunction period. At least mine hasnt. I quit counting rds after 1000.:D It has served me well as an everyday carry gun. Mine has adjustable rear sights and is very accurate. The only gripe that I have about the Mak is the sights to small for me to see and the rear sight screw comes loose when firing (No big problem) Elmers glue in the screw hole fixed that. :D No other complaints whatsoever from me about the Mak or the 380acp. I feel well protected.:D http://makarov.com

[Dave R]

I did some empirical expansion testing on the .380 acp. Fancy word for shooting at bound wet newsprint.

Compared Remington .380 102gr. Golden Sabre against 9mm Win Silvertip.

The "wound channels" from the .380 were closer to the 9mm than I would have expected. I'd say 75% of the depth and breadth.

The .380acp stopped expanding after 5 layers of denim covering the newsprint. The 9mm stopped expanding after 7 layers of denim over the newsprint.

Made me feel the .380 is "good enough".

IMHO the Bersa is easier to conceal than a mini-Glock, and costs about half. You give up 3 rounds, and some power.

[gbelleh]

I really like the .380 round. It's a fun round to shoot, and it's easy to shoot quickly and accurately. My .380s are all great shooters and I wouldn't be too uncomfortable carrying one for self defense. Most .380s are easier to shoot quickly and accurately than most small 9mms.

[denfoote]

My Glock 26 always feels like it is going to fly from my hands.

What?? Huh????
:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

You must either have really really big or really really small hands!! :eek:
I have small hands. The G17 frame is way to big for me. The G19 frame is more my size and the G26 fits just right!! :D
Or, you must have some infirmity that has weakened your hands. If this is indeed the case, then I apologize for inquiring!! ;)

As touching the subject at hand, I prefer the 9x18mm round fired from the Pistolet Makarova platform, although I plan to aquire a P3AT as soon as they make their way out to the vast Sonoran desert!! :banghead:

[David4516]

"How does a .380 compare to other calibers?"

It is considered the weakest round that is still good for self defense. It is between 9mm and .32 ACP

"Is it very accurate in a small frame auto?"

Yes, because most .380 pistols are blow-back designs and have fixed barrels.

"What do you know about Makarov?"

The pistol or the caliber?

The 9mm Makarov round (aka 9X18 ) is basicly a souped up .380 with a slightly larger diameter bullet. It is not a "True" 9mm, "True" 9mm is .355 caliber. 9mm Makarov is .365 caliber. 9mm Makarov was designed to be the most powerful round that could be used safely in a small blowback pistol. It is not as good as 9mm Luger, but it sure beats .380 ACP. This is the offical round of the russian army, so it must be pretty good ;)

The Makarov pistol itself is made in both .380 and 9mm Makarov. It kinda looks like a walther PP. The 'Mak' is, in my humble opinion, the MOST RELIABLE compact sized semi auto pistol money can buy. I have NEVER seen one jam or have any failure of any kind. I've had a few thosand round thur my Makarov (it's in 9mm Makarov), without any problems whatsoever.

I use my Mak as my carry gun, because I trust it. I know that it will go 'bang' when I pull the trigger. For me, this trust factor is the most important thing when picking a gun for defense...

There are a few other nice things about the Mak. It is very affordable. You can get one for about $150, and you get alot of bang for your buck. It is also very thin, so it's easy to hide. I thought about getting a glock 26 or 27, untill I compared my dad's glock 27 to a Mak. The 2 guns are about the same size, except for the thickness. The Mak is much thinner. The Mak is also more dependable. I've seem the Glock jam a few times, twice in one day even :(


"What would you use one for?"

Carry. I also carry my Mak when I'm out camping or hiking, but with FMJs. Around town I use Hornady XTPs...

Most .380's are also pretty accurate, so they'd make good target pistols...

Also, due to the fairly low recoil, you could use a .380 to teach someone how to shoot...

[MikeJ]

As mentioned earlier, the .380 in many ways has been eclipsed by the subcompact 9mm's out there today. I own the Sig 230 and Browning BDA .380's and still think they are a couple of the neatest guns around but they aren't my first choice for personal protection. I do think they are adequate but I really prefer a 9mm for that little extra edge and the additional confidence the 9mm gives me. Both of my .380's are very accurate and I use them simply as fun range guns. Would I use one as a kit gun for survival/hiking? No, I use my Glock 23 loaded with 165 grain Remington Golden Sabers for that purpose. It is light weight and with a spare mag I've got 26 rounds readily available (hi-cap mags). If you want one just because you like it, then go for it but if you are seriously considering a semi-auto for defensive purposes I would suggest you step up to a 9mm. Just my .02 worth. Mike

[Sean Smith]

It is like 9x19, only less so. :D

[Mannlicher]

Stinky,

I know that when I carried my Pony Pocketlite, I always felt I was not carrying enough gun. Every single time I felt that there was Any chance of needing it, I felt that sinking feeling in the pit of my tummy, that it was just the wrong thing to carry. I traded it off for a Browning HP in .40

[Standing Wolf]

This is the offical round of the russian army, so it must be pretty good

Hmmmmm...! I can think of higher commendations for a round.

[Mannlicher]

This is the offical round of the russian army, so it must be pretty good "

Combat usage of the 9X18 was limited to shooting bound captives once behind the left ear. Hardly a recomendation for a fighting round.

[Dr.Rob]

Yeah nobody in the Balkans wars ever fired one in anger.

The fact remains that the 9mm Mak was the service pistol round throught the eastern block for a VERY long time, in use by police and military agencies. Some of those folks are now on our side. Please keep that inmind that just because we don't have the heroic newspaper clipping of Det. Sgt. Rodchenko dusting a shotgun armed perp off a second floor perch with a humble Makarov doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Ok back to the 380. Makarovs made in 380, in my opinion have a slight design flaw, namely the undercut chamber coupled with softer brass, rather than steel cases case excessive case bulging. they still work but throw thebrass away, you won't be reloading it. (personal experience w/Izmash model Mak) Using lead bullets the problem was even worse.

On the good side the angle of the feed ramp of the mak means it will just about feed any ammo you give it, from hardball to wide open HP's.

On the .380: Yeah I've carried a 380 as a camp gun/hiking gun, but i was more concerned about weight than "stopping power". An inexpensive but well made option to the PPK is the FEG Pa-63/AP-9. It was made in both 380 and 9mm mak and while its aboutthe same size overall as a mak it weighs less do to an aluminum alloy frame. I've had mine for years and years and its the ONLY auto I have that has NEVER jammed. I've killed an antelope with mine, though it took 3 shots.

I've told this story before, but suffice it to say unless you hit something in the vitals with a .380, don't expect it to stop. The .380 leaves a nasty looking cratering shallow wound when it hits heavy bone,(like a hip) may have enough force to break a smaller bone (say an arm bone) but may not exit the opposite side. A shot through the ribs will suffice, but again if it hits that bone it will not penetrate as far.

There are far better pistols available if you fear 'wildlife' but if its 2 legged predators that worry your experience a 380 might be just fine. Practice practice, practice.

On another note, the last time I thought I really NEEDED a pistol, the 380 was all I had available at a moment's notice. What I wanted was the 7th Cavalry. I'm sure the pistol would have done its job had I done mine.

[George Hill]

It's a short 9MM?

[coldshot03/04]

I have noticed no bulging in my 380acp Mak.

[Midiman]

Why would you want a .380 if you could get, say, a Glock 26 in 9mm?

Because a Glock 26 won't fit in your Levi's pocket. For that matter, neither will the smaller Kahr 9's.

[Clark]

The .380 is 21,500 psi registered with SAAMI, but American load books mostly stay lower ~12kpsi.

For me as a handloader, I know the brass of a rimless case will flow at ~65kpsi, and that will make more recoil than this shooter or recoil springs of a pocket pistol are up to.

The comming of the 6 ounce Kel-Tec P-3AT is a big event for .380.
A locked breech pistol that is so light it can be carried comfortably in the pocket without a holster will attreact many users. They have made ~200, but I have not got mine, yet.

[citizen]

Locked breech????? Now I'm interested......:cool:

[longeyes]

"Because a Glock 26 won't fit in your Levi's pocket. For that matter, neither will
the smaller Kahr 9's."


True, but neither will most .380s.

[braindead0]

they still work but throw thebrass away

Not true, at least with my .380 Mak. I've loaded 1000's of rounds of .380, much of them at "+P" levels (110gr at ~1000fps)

No brass problems yet.

[tiberius]

The comming of the 6 ounce Kel-Tec P-3AT is a big event for .380.
A locked breech pistol that is so light it can be carried comfortably in the pocket without a holster will attreact many users. They have made ~200, but I have not got mine, yet..

Just so you know, they are out in numbers now I bought on eyesterday with a S/N in the 600 range, so there must be a lot more than that out there.

[Keith]

It is true that "most" .380's will not fit in your pocket. That is because most .380 designs originated as (or are copied from) European police and military pistols that were never intended to be pocket pistols.

However, there ARE American designed .380's that have been designed from the ground up as concealment guns.

The best of these (in my humble opinion) is the Colt Mustang Pocketlite. These are beautiful locked-breech guns that are quite reliable and rival the little .25's and .32's for concealablity. The locked breech means that the recoil is neglible, allowing quick follow-up shots.

If you want a true pocket gun, the .380 is the way to go. Mustangs are getting hard to find and expensive, but there are others out there that will serve.
Even the larger .380's are not bad as concealment pieces, though it is true that some of the smaller nines rival them for size. I don't think a Glock 26 would fall into that category. They are much thicker and heavier than a piece like the PPK or Bersa.

Keith

[Stinkyshoe]

Keith
I definately agree. A friend of mine has one of those little Colt Mustangs and they are very cool. Its like a 1911 shrunk down. I have never fired it but I bet that it would bet that it would be fairly accurate out to 15-20 yards.

[nvrquit]

...but as said before(and most likely said better), it's better than nothing at all.

I own a Bersa Thunder380 Deluxe and Taurus PT58(with four hi-caps, thank you). I had a Bersa model 85, 13 round steel frame, but it cracked it's frame. The model 85 was more accurate than a Walther PPK(German made and I wish I had never sold it) and didn't bite me the way the PPK used to.

The Taurus PT58 is big for a .380, even larger/bulkier than a Beretta 84 or Browning BDA. Handles everything it's ever been fed. Accuracy it better than average.

The CorBon, Speer Gold Dots, Remington Golden Sabre and for me, the Federal Hydra Shoks are the only rounds I would consider for carry with the .380 ACP.

Some people just don't prefer or can't handle warm/hot 9x19 rounds in smaller packages that fit their hands, but seem to be okay with the .380 in pistols of the same size. I don't judge them, I help them find the best option that works for them that they can hit the target consistently with. My wife is one of these types. Doesn't like anything heavier/stouter in recoil than the .380 ACP. I wish that the Glock 25 or 28 were available for US civilian use. One of these would be good for her. The 25(G19 in size) isn't available for the US market and the 28(G26 in size) is for LEO only(bummer!).

Anyone have any experience with the Taurus PT938 or PT138? I've looked at these for the wife, but she usually isn't with me when I run across an example of either.

[DDGator]

I agree that if you are going to carry a .380 the size of a Bersa Thunder or Sig or CZ--you might was well have a subcompact 9mm.

But, if you are carrying .380 in a tiny little gun like a Kel-Tec P-3AT -- the size/power advantage is a lot different.

[DDGator]

Just for kicks I weighed by P-3AT rig on my digital postal scale. The whole rig -- P-3AT fully loaded (7 rounds of Federal Hydrashok) with leather pocket holster -- 12 oz. on the nose.

[Dr.Rob]

I'll say it again I saw that bulged .380 brass on TWO Izmash pistols, never ever saw a problem with other MFG of maks, nor in 9mm mak caliber.

[Stinkyshoe]

Doc Rob
So would say that the Mak 380 would be a good kit gun? Are they fairly consistant in their accuracy? How long is the barrel on the 380?
Thanks
Ss

[Mastrogiacomo]

I'd go for a Beretta Cheetah myself -- but I'd take along a Glock 26 or my faithful compact type M Beretta....

[clubsoda22]

okay, so you can buy a small 9mm that is as light and concealable as a PPK/Bersa. I assure you it also kicks more. Big guy like myself is better suited with a compact gun in 9mm, .40, .45 (although i'd still have no qualms about packing a ppk/bersa). Someone with small hands, someone who isn't an experianced shooter, isn't gonna like a service caliber compact.

I did a family outing to the range. Me and my dad brought a Ruger MK2, taurus PT92 and Colt Gold Cup. We also rented a glock 26 and a walther ppk. The range master, seeing us shooting the ppk let us try his bersa. My mother and sister who shoot very rarely shot best with the walther and bersa. No big supprise there.

Here are the womens complaints. (Small handed/framed guys can relate):

-The Ruger MK2 Government, firing a .22 and weighing in at 2.9lbs, had very light recoil, but was too heavy. Wouldn't consider a .22 much of a defensive round either

-The Taurus PT92 AFS, with it's double stack magazine, was too wide, thought the recoil was managable due to it's 2lb weight and recoil reducing modifications. Still a bit too heavy

-The Colt 1911 Gold Cup, with it's big .45 caliber bullet, simply kicked too hard (even with recoil reducing modifications and it's 2.5+lb weight), though the single stack mag made the grip fit their hands better.

-The Glock 26, with it's double stacked magazine and light weight, was a little bit too hand filling, but the main complaint was of the sharp recoil. The weight was right though

-The Walther PPK, with it's single stack magazine, light weight and .380 cartridge, was perfect. It fit their hands perfectly, was not too thick like the taurus or glock. Not too heavy like the colt or ruger The recoil was managable and the cartrige is suitable for self defence with the right ammo (triton quick shok being my ammo of choice in 380). The gun was as exceptionally accurate for a pistol of its size. They also liked the lines of the gun, mentioning that it was "cute"

-The Bersa Thunder was everything the walther was for less money. In fact, the only thing the walther had that the bersa didn't for an additional $300 was an 18 pound DA trigger. The bersa's was light and crisp, more like 7 lbs DA. The grip was also better. Me and my dad with our large hands occasionally got bit by the walther, but not he bersa. Our hands just sat lower naturally on the bersa. Me and my dad have pretty much decided on making the next gun a bersa.

When it comes to self defence, if me or dad aren't on hand (he works, i'm at college) the women have to use the too big taurus, the too powerful colt, the too heavy and underpowered ruger or (HOLY SH*T) my winchester defender 12 ga, which is just too much gun for most people, especially them. Now does the PPK/Bersa make sence?

[nvrquit]

... for those that have smaller hand size, whether they be male or female.

A friend, while not much smaller in physical stature than myself(5' 11'', 215 lbs.), has a considerably smaller hand size. None of the common double stack 9mm's fit him in any way. A Kahr worked, but he wanted something that had a safety and is DA/SA(so no 1911's). He ended up with a Beretta model 85, which he says fits him like the proverbial "glove". At the next show, a vendor/dealer had a Beretta Compact Carry II(92 style, Type M frame, Inox with only a left side safety). While larger than the 85 Cheetah, the CC II fit well enough for him to consider. So, there's an option for the "smaller handed" shooter.

BTW, the Beretta Compact line(Type L & Type M) are being discontinued from normal schedule production. So if you want one, get it now while inventory is available.

On that note, the last time I saw a post by Mastrogiacomo(Beretta Forum), the Type M was still on the "wants" list. Congrats on the "new" Beretta! Did you ever get the 85 Cheetah in nickel that was on the list?

[Futo Inu]

"Why would you want a .380 if you could get, say, a Glock 26 in 9mm?"

There's a very easy and important answer to that question. My Kel-Tec P3AT is a true pocket gun which isn't too big of a gun to actually carry in the front pocket of jeans or other pants. The Glock 26 and similar is NOT a true pocket gun or ankle carry gun - while very small and a nice compromise of size to power, it's still too big to stick in your pocket, especially jeans wear, and not look ridiculous, like you're carrying a brick - and good luck trying to draw quickly from jeans in a pinch situation. Ditto as to ankle carry - yes you can ankle carry a G26-sized dude, but it's too much weight and too high of a chance to print for comfortable, worry-free ankle carry, for me anyway. To me, the role of the G26, or the XD 3", or similar, are for deep concealment carry, like a tuckable IWB or belly band type carry - not as handy or accessible as pocket carry, but nevertheless there's a use for it, particularly in my view, for say when jogging, bicycling, or the like. And if you're gonna get a gun that size, why not get a .40, BTW?

[longeyes]

Futo Inu,

I understand that. My point was that most .380s aren't pocket-sized
either. The P3AT is another story altogether. I was talking
about similarly-sized weapons.

[Dorrin79]

another point about super-small 9mms is that they have ridiculous muzzle flip. The small .380 blowbacks don't.

To me, the Bersa .380 didn't seem to have any recoil - just a little snap.

By comparison, my KT P11 kicks hard into the palm, and muzzle flips like you wouldn't believe. The only other gun I've fired with that kind of muzzle flip was a 2" .357mag snubbie.

So, for follow-up shots / rapid fire, I think the .380 is a better choice in many ways than a subcompact 9mm.

Overall, though, a small but not too small 9mm (like a Kahr K9) is probably the best compromise.

The point about the Walther clones not really being pocket guns is also well taken. The only true pocket gun in .380 that I know of is the P3AT. The Colt might qualify, I've never handled one. Bersas and similar are definitely not, although they conceal well IWB.

[Stinkyshoe]

Okay, so the Mak isn't the best pocket pistol I guess. I probably wouldn't carry it in a jean pocket anyway. In fact I doubt I would carry it period because we don't have conceiled carry here yet. Yeah it is a bummer I know. It would mainly want it to have when running or when out checking our vacant properties in the country(a twelve gauge is ideal though). However, I hardly think it is legal to carry it when running. I run around a wooded area in town, so who knows if there are some big dogs running around looking for a mouthful of food. I don't want to be a statistic of robery or of a beating, but at the same time, I don't think it would be worth it to get caught with a gun. I think I will stick to my surefire e2e and my legs to get me out of harms way. I just thought I would carry it during hunting season in a holster, since that is legal.

I suppose that the Glock would be better for stopping power and flawless function, but by the sounds of it, there are a few die hard Makarov lovers here. Does it make a difference where they are made? How would you the rate the Russian model to the Bulgarian to the other manufacturers?
Thanks
Ss

[Dr.Rob]

If your heart is set on a Mak, by all means get one. The East German made guns are the BEST you'll find,though they were only made in 9mmMak caliber. The blueing is thicker, the fit and finish is good and they tend to have less inporter's marks. On the bad side, they all shipped with cheap plastic target stoks that need to be replaced. The stock fixed sights are small, but painting the rear of the front sight blaze orange helps a lot.

The Mak is indeed a value on the defensive pistol market, and its designed to be shot with cheap corrosive steel cased ammo. Coddling it with non corrosive brass cased ammo, it should last a lifetime.

Overall the Mak is almost as big as a Colt Commander, it's quite a lot larger than a PPK. Still, thanks to the vast numbers imported, you can find all kinds of aftermarket goodies, grips, sights, replacement parts, etc. Even gunleather is available, but i know a few guys still using a holster for a SW439 that fits it well.

www. makarov.com seems to be down at the moment but thay have all kinds of good stuff.

[wild billz]

I have a Bersa 380. I t can fit in your front jeans pocket, given you are not wearing skin tight pants. It conceals better with a shirt untocked over it, buit it fits me atleast. I carry it in my shorts pockets as well. I just got it actually for my wife, but am thinking about stealing it) becasue it was small and fit in pockets. I normally carry a Glock 23 IWB, big caliber difference, but the 380 serves a purpose. Given I live in Florida, its nice to carry in a pocket instead of IWB or a fanny pack. I know people who carry smaller guns and the major drawback is that they hurt to shoot enough to become profficenet with them. I shot a really small 380 (dont remeber which, NAA Guardian I think) and it hurt, like I was catching a hmmer in my hand. The Bersa is nice to shoot.

[clubsoda22]

380 is enough of a caliber for defence with +p ammo. Let's remember that 99% of the time no one shoots. For those who want to play the 1% game, 99% of the time when you shoot, 380 will be enough. For that last fraction of a percent, you'd probably want a rifle. :D

[Marcus]

The .380 is a bit marginal balistically but IMO with good ammo and good shot placement it`ll certainly get the job done. My wife`s .380 Gov`t Pocketlite is a dream to shoot,it`s almost hard to miss with it. A relative of mine is a huge Kahr fan,he`s got a K9 Elite with an Optima on it and a PM-9 also. We were shooting some "combat drills" and he was doing okay with the Kahrs,best with the K9. I let him try the Colt .380 and his times dropped by about 1/3 and his groups shrunk to less than half the size ! He looked at me shocked and said "Hey this thing really shoots,I just can`t miss with it!". Now what`s better 2 marginal hits with a 9mm or 3 really good hits with a .380 in the same time frame? Course, that said I often carry a P-11 loaded with Corbons. I just practice more. ;) Marcus

[David4516]

"Why would you want a .380 if you could get, say, a Glock 26 in 9mm?"

There are 3 big factors here:

The glock is CONSIDERABLY thicker

The glock has sharper recoil. The darn thing wants to jump right out of your hands...

The glock costs 3 times as much

Stinkyshoe,

"I suppose that the Glock would be better for stopping power and flawless function"

The glock does have a ballistic advantage (9mm Luger is better than 9mm Makarov/.380, it goes faster), but it DOES NOT have a reliability advantage over the Mak. I have seen glocks jam. I've had glocks jam on me while I'm shoothing them. However, I have NEVER seen a Makarov jam. You will not find a more reliable pistol.

If you want a Mak, you should go for it. You won't be sorry. I dont' know how comfortable it would be to run with one though, but other than that it should work for you...

Also, I'd recomend the 9mm Makarov caliber. It is better than .380 in every way, bigger bullet going faster. It isn't a HUGE differance, but it is enough to take into consideration...

Also, I like the "Star" plastic grips that normaly come with the Mak, but most people don't. If you get a Mak, you might want to look into buying a new grip. It should be pretty cheap...