Strong urge to bubba me a long-distance stick -- pick a victim


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takhtakaal
January 20, 2008, 01:05 AM
I don't feel like dropping an enormous chunk of change to get some sort of unobtanium-class sub-.000001 MOA ego-stick, but I'd like to have something reliable out to 5 or 600 yards or so. I'm not talking about cutting a playing card in half at that distance, but being able to deflate a basketball or spray watermelon chunks all over the place at that distance would be just marvelous.

"Serious" shooters would look down on my efforts, and collector purists might have a bird at the idea of the sacrilege, but I'd like to use something that I already have to get what I'm looking for, without dropping money that could be better spent between now and next January 20, 2009.

Right now, I have a K-31, a Yugo M-48A, and a RC K98.

The K-31 is fairly typical birch, with a somewhat banged-up stock, but very good metal and a great barrel. I've already gotten a permanent left-side St. Marie's scope mount for it, but as of yet, it's still virgin. I've fired the rifle over original iron, and found maintaining accuracy with it a bit frustrating. Über-expensive aperture (and not so über) sights are available, but not a priority. All sorts of gizmos are available for it, at a price, and I have a decent amount of GP-11 ammo for it.

The Yugo M-48A is still in pieces, while I try to drain the last of the cosmoline out of its stock. What a mess. It's got a somewhat dark bore, but the rifling is very, very distinct. I'll be setting the barrel up with a home-brewed electrical cleaning device to see how much more gunk and crap I can get out of its barrel before I put it all back together. As of yet, it's unfired.

The RC K-98 is incredibly, and I mean incredibly cherry. Most of the major parts match, with the notable exception of the butt plate, and it's only missing the bayonet, like I need one, and none of its German markings. I picked it off of a rack at a local ironmonger, not even bothering to look at the import stamp or the tag. Sadly, yes, I'll admit that I was chagrined when I picked it up and saw the Mitchell's box, but minus the box and the import stamp on the barrel, who cares? It's beautiful, looks practically unfired, and the barrel is brighter than the sun with deep, deep rifling. As of yet, it is also unfired, something that I plan to take care of when I get a chance.

On both of these last two, I have a couple K of typical Romanian and Yugoslavian corrosive range fodder ready, and decent 198 gr. M76 ammo is available through various channels. On one of these, I'm thinking about setting up a side-mount with a POSP 8-power, as was done here (with a 6): http://www.surplusrifle.com/reviews2006/newspinonthings/index.asp

I get the very strong feeling that the smartest thing to do, between the three, is to scope the M-48A, not being as valuable as the other two, but a real vibe tells me that the K-98's gonna shoot like a house on fire, which is my real aim.

Thoughts? Opinions? I'd like to hear pros and cons of my choices, not just that I might be a heathen if I undertake such a project. I have enough sub 200 and 300 yard toys, but not the inclination to go all nutzy chasing a precision distance piece. I don't mind spending on glass, that's for sure, but I'm okay with a not-terribly takht-i-kool solution, otherwise.

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TheLaxPlayer
January 20, 2008, 04:02 AM
You have a K31, get the clamp on St. Maries mount (totally removable and doesn't require any modification of the rifle) and a decent scope and you're there. GP11 is very good ammo and I've never seen a K31 that didn't shoot amazingly well. Frankly, I'd be SHOCKED if your K-98 outshot the K31.

cracked butt
January 20, 2008, 08:25 AM
Get a clamp on mount for the K-31. Get a high quality set of Steel rings- I recommend Burris though there are others out that will fit the bill. Mount a good scope on it- one of the Leupold, Nikon, Burris scopes in the $200 range won't let you down, but I would use as a bare minimum if you want to do anything more than plinking.

You are more than likely will need to reload to feed your K-31 (you'll need to reload for your 8mms as well- surplus 8mm just isn't that accurate in my experience). Once you find a good load, you can tweak the rifle using this method: http://www.swissrifles.com/sr/pierre/accurizing.html

Unless your rifle is a complete dog, it should shoot MOA or better.

takhtakaal
January 20, 2008, 07:07 PM
Other than making permanent holes, is there a performance reason to go on the right side of the K-31 receiver with a clamp-on mount as opposed to the left with a permanent one?

I'm thinking that I would like some sort of QD set-up. I already have a good, but reasonable mil-dot Leupold zoom, and was thinking about the Burris mil-dot 3200 as a possible backup. Any more thoughts on setting up the Mausers? I've seen the "Zrak" mounts and the Mauser banners but they seem to go way, way high, almost too high for polite social encounters.

TheLaxPlayer
January 20, 2008, 07:40 PM
I believe the benefit is only the issue of permanent holes in the receiver. You should also note that the receivers are made of a very hard steel and drilling it on you own isn't usually recommended.

I don't see a reason to consider the Mausers when the K31 will have a significant accuracy advantage over a Mauser, possibly excluding a Swede.

Cosmoline
January 20, 2008, 07:41 PM
Forget the Mausers. The only iron in that batch up to the long range standard is the K-31. Just get a good St. M's scope mount for it or learn how to use the irons. She'll blow pumpkins up, no problemo.

JWarren
January 20, 2008, 09:06 PM
Is there any particular reason you want a Milsurp for this project?

If you just want a lower-cost very accurate bolt action, I'd grab a Savage with Accutrigger. Buy a decent scope and and you have a rifle more accurate than you are-- and more accurate than the Milsurp that you are contemplating.

Plus, you have zero chance of altering a collector. I have a Finn 28/30 that someone drilled and tapped for scope mount among other things. Turns out that a 1941 Sako M28/30 "D" Bore is one of the most rare Mosins out there according to 7.62x54R.net. While I am not such a purist, whoever did that should be beat with a sock full of nickles.


-- John

Coronach
January 20, 2008, 09:10 PM
This is called "consensus."

K31

Get a clamp on mount from St.Marie Graphics and a good scope. Tweak the pressure applied to the barrel by the forearm if the accuracy isn't what you want. www.swissrifles.com has good info on that, IIRC.

Unless you got one of the two dozen inaccurate K31s the Swiss mistakenly allowed to go to the troopies, you should be fine. And don't drill your receiver. With the availability of the clamp-on mount from St. Marie, which is completely different from most temporary scope mounts, there is literally almost no advantage to drilling and tapping.

Mike

Hoppy590
January 20, 2008, 09:18 PM
the yugo. its the only historically irrelevant rifle in the lot.

takhtakaal
January 20, 2008, 09:25 PM
JW, I think that it's because i have these items, don't want to go through the cost and bother of more shopping, and would probably like to see what I can do with vintage equipment. Also, I know that Mausers were used to effect in the Balkans, practice ammo is reasonable, and match grade 8MM Mauser is available as well.

TheLaxPlayer
January 20, 2008, 10:10 PM
Match grade 8mm is no better than GP11 for the K31's... if it's even as good.

It seems you are waiting for somebody to tell you to go with the mauser. If that's what you want to do, go for it. It's your gun and there's nothing wrong with scoping a mauser. However, the K31 with the clamp on mount will be more accurate and you don't have to modify the rifle at all.

takhtakaal
January 20, 2008, 10:28 PM
You may be right, Lax. One of the things about the K-31 that I'm not big on is the apparent comparative weight and ungainliness of it. I think part of me is looking for an answer to help make decisions towards consolidation. I wish someone made a good, totally artificial stock so that I could pull the wood and save it any abuse, although I've seen what ATI has for Mausers and it's ugly as sin.

ASM826
January 20, 2008, 10:54 PM
My front sight was buggered up, and even after careful filing, it was hard to hold accurately and nearly impossible to adjust. I bought this mount and ring set
http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/Schmidt_Rubin_K31_Scope_Mount.html

It went right on, holds tightly, and will remove with a single allen bolt. No permanent drilling or damage. I left the stock alone. But it made it into a 2 inch shooter at 200 yds. I am thinking of using it for deer hunting next year.

Only problem I can see is that it rides over the bolt so when you eject the case, it doesn't fly away, and the rounds must be loaded one at a time. The picture should show the scope location and what comes in the mount kit.
http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/k31mountB.jpg

http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/k31mount.jpg

takhtakaal
January 20, 2008, 11:12 PM
I'm extremely familiar with the permanent and clamp-on options for the K31. I already have, in hand, a permanent St. Marie'a that I got from Brownells for just this purpose, and I'm thinking seriously of the bipod adapter as well. Graf's has a bunch of good stuff for the K31. And here's a review of the clamp-on mount, with instructions and a photo essay of a sighting-in session at the range: http://www.surplusrifle.com/reviews2006/stmariescopebaseswiss/index.asp

cracked butt
January 21, 2008, 02:22 PM
The very reason why I and others specifically recommend a clamp on mount is that in 5 years you might want to sell the rifle and upgrade to something newer. The difference between a D&T'd K-31 versus putting a clamp on mount could be the difference of your rifle being worth $75 versus $350 then.

With a mauser, you'll have to have the bolt reforged, will need to drill and tap the receiver for a scope mount, and will need to replace the safety and or trigger to make the rifle function- you'll be spending a lot more money that just the $75 for a clamp on mount for a K-31. Furthermore, 'Match-grade or Sniper-grade' ammo for the 8mm sounds more like an exaggeration by the importer than a reality of what it really is- I doubt that its any different than the standard 8mm Yugoslavian ammo that's been available for several years. That being said, it isn't going to shoot anywhere near as good as a K-31 with gp-11 ammo. I've done extensive reloading and accuracy testing with 8mms, the best I've ever gotten a Yugo to shoot was about 1.25" at 100 yards, a few 8mm rifles did quite a bit better, but they are fairly difficult to find (98/22 and 98/29 rifles). FWIW, with Yugo surplus ammo, my M48 can do around 2.5-3", far worse with other surplus ammo. All of my K-31s shoot better with GP-11 than I can get a mauser to shoot.

takhtakaal
January 21, 2008, 02:49 PM
I see your point about the value of a K31, cracked, but the Mauser bolt wouldn't have to be bent to accommodate optics if you employ a side-mounted optical mounting base plate. One is available for 8MM Mausers to allow them to use 8MM-cammed COMBLOC PSOP sights, which are expecting 198 grain rounds. That might be a reason to get some of this M75 and try it out, if only to have an option. GP11 isn't easily reloadable (it can be done, with effort, and hard-to-find primers)

Here's a thread on the M75: http://parallaxscurioandrelicfirearmsforums.yuku.com/topic/19258/t/Yugo-M75-ammo-on-the-way-NOW.html?page=1

The fact that it's 11˘ a round cheaper from Widener's than the GP11 is a small factor, too. Most likely, I'll wind up setting up both rifles anyway. No telling what we'll be able to lay our hands on in the future, which is a good argument for a bit of diversity.

rbernie
January 21, 2008, 04:17 PM
Is there any particular reason you want a Milsurp for this project?

If you just want a lower-cost very accurate bolt action, I'd grab a Savage with Accutrigger. Buy a decent scope and and you have a rifle more accurate than you are-- and more accurate than the Milsurp that you are contemplating.
JW, I think that it's because i have these items, don't want to go through the cost and bother of more shopping, and would probably like to see what I can do with vintage equipment. Also, I know that Mausers were used to effect in the Balkans, practice ammo is reasonable, and match grade 8MM Mauser is available as well.Been here, done that.

All I can say is ' $270 Savage/Stevens 200 in 308'.

1200 meters
February 1, 2008, 10:35 PM
Hey Takhtakaal, I've Bubba'd a yugo48(8mm Mauser) , It has a slightly shorter action bolt, but fires the 7.92 x 57 Mauser round. I bubba'd it with an Advanced Tech Stock and a Tasco World Class mildot 3x9power x40 scope and it shoots 450 meters standing off hand NO SWEAT. excellent shooter. If you yse the Yugo 48 you will need to have the bolt handle turned down. about 50 bucks.if tou use a good K98 Mauser the bolt handle is already down. SOOOooo:
The mauser = @ $200 ( remove it from it's shock and take off all excess
attachments) you can put them al back on to sell it
later.
TASCO world Class mil dot @$100
Cost of bolt turn down @ $50.00
For @ $250 you have a really nice shooter. BLITZ

confed sailor
February 2, 2008, 12:14 AM
to call a K31 receiver hard does not do it justice, my roomate had his tapped for the permanent mount. i watched a carbide bit have serious issues on it. the swiss figured out how to mill and blue diamonds into a rifle receiver.

Mike 56
February 2, 2008, 10:40 AM
+1 one for the K31 with clamp on mount it don't get much better than that. The only other millsurp rifles i would recommend are the Swedish Mauser or a Finn M39 in fact my M39 is more accurate than my K31. The three most important three things you can do to improve accuracy is RELOAD, RELOAD and RELOAD. Here is a no gunsmith Mosin Nagant mount that you can use as a standard or scout mount and lets you still use your iron sights. Plus you can move it from one mosin to an other if you had a standard scope, pistol scope and a bent bolt body you could change from a standard scope to a scout set up in minutes. http://cgi.ebay.com/Mosin-Nagant-See-Through-Scope-Mount_W0QQitemZ200197057200QQihZ010QQcategoryZ36258QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Here is a post from a guy that bought one http://parallaxscurioandrelicfirearmsforums.yuku.com/topic/24013/t/Scoped-Mosin-ready-for-the-woods.html To raise your iron sights and make them essayer to use build up your front sight post with J-B Weld grove the J-B weld with a small triangle file and J-B weld on a piece of fiber Optic rod. for a post sight glue a small piece of fiber optic on the post to extend it with Supper glue gel. As far as mounting a bi-pod just drill a pilot hole in the forearm and install a uncle Mike's sling stud to mount a Rock mount or harris bi-pod. You can have one bi-pod you can use on all of your rifles.

Mike

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