i want to get a beater


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paintballdude902
January 20, 2008, 01:41 AM
ok guys im having trouble deciding on a rifle

no aks is the only thing my dad said about types and i can only spend 450ish


i want something fairly light, cheap to shoot, and is semi auto


ive looked at:
saigas
sks
mini-14
m1-carbines



anything else u guys should think i should look at?

pros and cons of each gun?

my beautiful 1969 ishapore 2a enfield will cover most of it

the only calibers ive really looked at are 7.62x39, .223, and .30 carbine

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Jguy101
January 20, 2008, 01:47 AM
What's wrong with an AK? Saigas are just PC-looking AKs, and could even be converted back to standard AK configuration without breaking your budget (as long as it's a barebones conversion: fixed stock, original handguard, etc.). I don't know about the 7.62x39, but owners of the .223 report about 2 MOA with Russian steel-cased Wolf ammo.

serrano
January 20, 2008, 01:52 AM
You can toss the Kel-Tec SU-16 into the mix. Could you build a budget AR in the $450 range?

Prince Yamato
January 20, 2008, 01:56 AM
Just get the SKS and a couple thousand rounds of ammo or tell your dad that I said, "lighten up and let your kid have an AK." For crying out loud, 10 year-olds in Iraq get to play with one, why can't you?

highorder
January 20, 2008, 02:04 AM
where can one find an M-1 carbine for only $450?

bkjeffrey
January 20, 2008, 02:08 AM
mosin nagant m44 with a metric butt ton of ammo!

Slugless
January 20, 2008, 08:38 AM
Maybe it's just my jaded eyes but Saigas look a lot like AKs to me...is your Dad going to see they've got 'bruderbund'? Or are they PC enough that he wouldn't care?

If he don't care, Saiga. If he would, SKS + lots of ammo.

paintballdude902
January 20, 2008, 11:05 AM
What's wrong with an AK? Saigas are just PC-looking AKs, and could even be converted back to standard AK configuration without breaking your budget

i still live with my dad and hes a vietnam vet and says he will never have an ak-47 in his house

he oked a saiga as long as i dont convert it


high- ive got a friend whose a gunsmith and has 2 that are full barreled actions and all parts except stocks most of the finish is gone but he said they should make a decent truck gun for some one

serrano- thenaks alot for the keltec idea i really like the standard su-16 especially the folding stock that makes it great for hiking and camping which is a big part of what i want

Cannonball888
January 20, 2008, 11:22 AM
i still live with my dad and hes a vietnam vet and says he will never have an ak-47 in his house
Don't tell him the VC and NVA used SKS and PPSh too http://www.smileygenerator.us/community/uploads/shush.gif

possum
January 20, 2008, 11:25 AM
i say go for the sks and lots of ammo, but with that being said they were used in vietnam too. is he gonna be ok with the sks? if not i would say the mini 14, that is an all american rifle that will serve you well, ammo isn't gonna be cheap and quality mags cost a bit but of the ak and a sks is a no go then i would head in the mini 14 direction.

paintballdude902
January 20, 2008, 11:46 AM
Don't tell him the VC and NVA used SKS and PPSh too

he has no clue what an sks is lol

my father is not a shooter i am the only gun person in my family heck my dad went 30 years with out firing a gun until he got me a shotgun for my 16th birthday

i think alot of it is he never really got into anything bad repairing loaches but he saw all the guys come back to base with ak's as wartrophies then when benwah(i have no clue on spelling) got attacked they all picked up guns to defend themselves and the ak was thefirst gun he could grab he says that is the last time he will ever hold one

Fred Fuller
January 20, 2008, 04:34 PM
If he was in country for Tet of 1968, 'bad' came to him, he didn't have to go looking for it...

http://www.145thcab.com/History/NL09HIST.htm

http://www.vspa.com/bh-battle-bunker-hill-10-1968.html

http://www.history.army.mil/books/Vietnam/mounted/chapter5.htm

http://www.war-stories.com/bien-hoa-tripp-tdy-1968.htm

...and so on.

lpl/nc

jimmyraythomason
January 20, 2008, 04:40 PM
First;My respects to your dad for his Vietnam service. Second;get the Ruger Mini 14 it costs more but is well worth it.

Brian Maffei
January 20, 2008, 04:49 PM
where can one find an M-1 carbine for only $450?

http://www.odcmp.com/rifles/carbine.htm

$441.95 shipped.

dscottw88
January 20, 2008, 04:52 PM
First of all, You can't find a M1 Carbine for $450, but if you can GO FOR IT! Also, IF you did find a M1 Carbine, for less than this, chances are it is a Universal or some other NON-GI spec. Meaning its not the same design as the ones our troops used. I can't comment on their reliability.

Secondly, The SKS is also a vietnam era rifle used against our troops. Google image it, if your dad is cool with it.. Than get one and use the rest of your money for ammo. SKS tend to be within the $150-$250 range.

I own a saiga and have converted it, but even before I did it was a fun gun in its original state. These Tend to be between $250 and $350. You wont be able to accept anything more than your 10 round mag for it though. They make 30-rounders for it but they are about $50. Another neat thing about Saigas are that you can get one in either .223, 7.62x39, or .308win.

Your last choice mini 14, I have no experience with. Although I do know they make whats called a mini-30 which is the same design, but once again using the 7.62x39 round that both the sks and AK use. Happy shooting. I'm grateful for your family's effort in serving our freedoms.

jdc1244
January 20, 2008, 04:52 PM
Frankly, Id pass on the Ruger and Kel-Tec as and go with the Saiga or SKS. And Id take the Kel-Tec over the Ruger.

birdbustr
January 20, 2008, 04:55 PM
You said "cheap to shoot", however you said, "no-AK", so that makes me think that you want something in a larger caliber. If that isn't the case, you could get a Ruger 10/22 Target and a Sightron scope for $450 in .22lr.
If you do want something in a "combat sized" round I would say the above suggestions are as good as any for <$450, but for about $600 you could get an AR-15 or a carbine variant kit at www.colemantyler.com

takhtakaal
January 20, 2008, 05:15 PM
It ain't much, but it looks the part, and it isn't an AK: http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=89389320

You need to understand, if it hasn't been explained to you, that M1 carbines from the CMP sell out immediately, sometimes in person, to dealers who make the drive to Port Clinton, OH on a regular basis. I've been there, and I've seen it. It's like watching bears on a salmon stream, just about disgusting.

Cannonball888
January 20, 2008, 05:40 PM
First of all, You can't find a M1 Carbine for $450, but if you can GO FOR IT! Also, IF you did find a M1 Carbine, for less than this, chances are it is a Universal or some other NON-GI spec.


Italian USGI rebuilds. You get what you pay for.http://www.odcmp.com/rifles/carbine.htm

RockyMtnTactical
January 20, 2008, 05:45 PM
Well, a Saiga is an AK, so I guess that is out of consideration?

I would say SKS.

.45Guy
January 20, 2008, 06:30 PM
Holy jacked up prices takhtakaal! $430 for a stamped op-rod Universal!

takhtakaal
January 20, 2008, 06:39 PM
Well, .45, have you seen what "therapists" (think "Sean Connery" on SNL) want for GI CMP carbines on GB? It ain't $200, Mr. Bond!

For those not getting the SNL reference: http://www.leechvideo.com/video/view1854025.html

rino451
January 20, 2008, 08:09 PM
http://cmmginc.secure-mall.com/shop/?shop=1&cat=33
$570 Used Bargain Bin Rifle

DiN_BLiX
January 20, 2008, 08:17 PM
I would say sks and alot of ammo. my beater grade yogo 59/66 is a great shooter since a chopped off all the grenade launcher and junk. Second pick would be the mini, but you really have to look hard to find a used one under the $400 mark, plus mags (10 bucks for polys 20 for stell promags) and .223 is alot for expensive for non wolf. Ive shot wolf .223 in my mini alot and what some say about accelerated wear on the rifle is hooey. Dont be afraid to ask a dealer, "hey you know anyone wanting to sell a >>>" he might know someone or some other customer may have a buddy who has yada yada.

paintballdude902
January 20, 2008, 09:34 PM
by cheap to shoot i mean i dotn want to pay 50 cents per round like i am for my enfield

i have no probelms with the ak round and the only reason i cant get an ak is my father said no and im 17

anyone know what an sks weighs? is it like 7 lbs?

im happy with the weight of my marlin but i want something cheaper to shoot without reloading

anyone know much about the ruger pc-40?

.45Guy
January 20, 2008, 09:59 PM
If a universal is that pricey, maybe I'll throw my beater National Ord. up for grins!

KC&97TA
January 20, 2008, 10:49 PM
http://cmmginc.secure-mall.com/shop/?shop=1&cat=33
$570 Used Bargain Bin Rifle

I second this... save up a bit of extra cash and have a decent AR15

I've been pushing the CMMG bargin bin to my friends, and if I wasn't in the PRCK, I would buy 10 of them, just for giggles.

takhtakaal
January 20, 2008, 10:56 PM
It was indicated that an AK was unacceptable, so I'm wondering just how much more acceptable an AR would be. It may be the wartime associations with the AK, or it may also be the whole EBR thing.

rangerruck
January 20, 2008, 11:00 PM
kel tec, many diff varieties as well. plus it shares parts interchangeable with ar's, including mags.

rangerruck
January 20, 2008, 11:01 PM
Though I still prefer the Saiga...

spiroxlii
January 20, 2008, 11:17 PM
By now, everybody on THR knows I'm going to recommend an SKS to anybody looking for a beater or a truck gun.

Cheap. Reliable. Inexpensive ammo.

squirrel sniper
January 21, 2008, 06:49 PM
you cant beat the original truck gun, the marlin 336 or the winchester 94. If you cant do it with 6 shots, what makes you think you could do it with 10 or 30. Besides, with a saiga or a mini-14, you have a mag sticking out, a mag that can get caught on the seat and what not. With a marlin or a winny, you have nothing to get caught or mags to jam.

jonboynumba1
January 21, 2008, 07:12 PM
If he's buying get one of the new minis (serial numbered 580,001 and up) I paid 604 for mine and like it...lotta fun. Like an SKS but without the crappy commie looks and trigger and in a normal caliber. Looks good feels good shoots good. Then again if you've never owned an AR a good used one could probably be had for about that. Cheaper mags and all it might be a better choice. I bought mine just because I wanted something else fun to plink less "mall ninja rambo" in apearance for a truck gun. It seems to shoot pretty decent between 2-3 MOA best groups scoped softball sized groups at best iron sighted at 100 yards. No big bargain but a lot of fun to shoot. You could probably find a used AR...then again a used moisin nagant or SKS with several cases of ammo might be more fun! Just depends what you like...a $100 M44 with a couple tuna-cans of ammo is a lotta fun...I bought one of those around christmas and had some fun with it. On loan to a buddy for the rest of deer season. I get a backstrap for every round of winchester 180gr SP he uses up...so he better not miss much!-LOL

I like the above guys suggestion as well...a good ole marlin or win. thuddy thuddy and a bunch of ammo and a lee handloader and some powder primer and bullets might be long term fun and very good knock about carbine....the 94 was afterall the original "assault rifle"-LOL Still a dang good carbine in the right hands...marlins usually shoot better and handle slicker and are easier to upgrade for more modern sights and optics ect (check out XS sight systems) I honestly think a lot of PD's would be better off withmarlin 336's in the patrol cars than poorly trained guys with AR-15's. A lot less chance for one morron to do major damage when he gets stupid. Like the guy says if you can't do it in a few rounds 10 more aint likely gonna help much. This is aint mogadishu afterall.

paintballdude902
January 21, 2008, 10:59 PM
sniper-
i have a marlin 30aw in .30-30 and i got 2 deer with it this season but its kinda expensive to shoot even though i only fired 3 shots all season

i have no problem shooting wolf .223 or 7.62x39

i have a gunshow this weekend so im gonan take a look around and well i do love ruger....ssoooo i think i may try and get a mini-14 this weekend


anyone have problems with laquored steel of wolf?

spiroxlii
January 21, 2008, 11:08 PM
I use the steel cased Wolf 7.62x39 ammo in my SKS with no problems, as do many others. Many, but not all, AR owners have complaints about the Wolf lacquered steel case 5.56 ammo. My suspicion is that the Mini could cycle it pretty reliably, based on what some of the other Ruger Mini-14 owners in this thread have said about it. It may not be as "refined" as an AR (actually, it certanly isn't), but that does offer it at least one small advantage. It can digest things that a more refined rifle might not agree with.

paintballdude902
January 21, 2008, 11:34 PM
i am a fan of the saying "simplicity is key" i think that 90% of the problems with the m-16/ar-15 si jsut its too damn complex lol


maybe for my first semi i need something like a mini-14 or saiga

mp510
January 21, 2008, 11:54 PM
anyone know much about the ruger pc-40?
$369 +shipping and transfer from CDNN if I recall correctly. They also made them in 9mm (PC-9), which is cheaper to shoot.

paintballdude902
January 22, 2008, 12:04 AM
hey anyone know if they make a mini-14 underfolding stock?


mp510- im gonna have to look into that i really like them and the idea of using handgun ammo which is usually cheaper (especially 9mm)
how would i get a gun from cdnn do i just have to order on the phone?

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