Saiga 922 compliance


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novaDAK
January 20, 2008, 04:53 AM
I'm thinking that if I don't find another .45 to buy before or at the next gun show, I'm going to get a 16.5" Saiga in 7.62x39.

I'm considering this rifle due to the longer "sporter" stock it has over the "real" AKs like one my father has, because I find it uncomfortable to shoot due to the short stock.

My question is, if I were to buy a Saiga, and use American made "hi-cap" magazines (like Surefire Magazines modified AK 30rd mag), would this be in violation of section 922?

I know that in order to use standard 30rd AK mags I'd have to do some permanant mods to the receiver, which I don't want to do...I just want a fun rifle to shoot that's comfortable and also uses the same ammunition as my father's AK.

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FieroCDSP
January 20, 2008, 06:46 AM
I think all you need to change (but don't quote me) to stay in 922 compliance is the gas-piston(1part) and the mag (3parts). Again, I'm not the definitive source, but the max limit on foreign parts on an altered, imported arm is 10. You might need to swap out teh trigger group as well. Tapco seems to be one of the definitive sources for 922 compliant parts.

MRIman
January 20, 2008, 07:33 AM
You will only need to add one US made part.
Gas piston is the best bet.

piston for $17 shipped:
http://www.gunco.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2636

Feed ramp(needed to run AK mags):
http://www.dinzagarms.com/saiga_762x39/saiga_762x39.html

You will then need to take a little off your
mag release/retainer for a good mag fit.

Look for a x39 with dimples(in receiver around mag well),as
I've seen a few at the last few shows.

MRI

rbernie
January 20, 2008, 09:58 AM
Look for a x39 with dimples(in receiver around mag well)Why is that?

nalioth
January 20, 2008, 10:03 AM
The new master molder mags are supposedly functional w/o a feed ramp.

If you only have a few mags for your Saiga, mag modifications are the way I'd go (I'd not mod the rifle mag catch unless I had more than a few AK mags)

There are 'extra long' AK buttstocks available (they're called "Nato Length") if you're only buying for LOP. Something to keep in mind if you end up converting the Saiga.

Look for a x39 with dimples(in receiver around mag well)
Why is that? For vanity of course. "Mine's better than yours. It's got dimples."

rangerruck
January 20, 2008, 12:29 PM
the surefire mags, plus any other part, is all you need, could be an ak buffer as well , i would think, or mag release or piston, or rear peep site, get to your heart's content.

Gingerbreadman
January 20, 2008, 02:00 PM
How can you tell how many parts need to be replaced to be 922rcompliant?

357fan
January 20, 2008, 02:28 PM
http://forum.saiga-12.com/

Go there and learn all you need to know and more about these great riles.

--EDIT--
It looks like the site is down right now, but check back when it's up and running again.

22_Shooter
January 20, 2008, 02:55 PM
the surefire mags, plus any other part, is all you need, could be an ak buffer as well , i would think, or mag release or piston, or rear peep site, get to your heart's content.

Doing that would not get you compliant. You can't just replace any part you want. There are "counted" parts for compliance. Check out the Saiga forums, all the info you'll need is there. But yes, short answer, all you need with your US made mags (3 parts) would be one more "counted" part. A factory Saiga 7.62x39 has 14 "countable" parts, meaning you need to replace 4 with US made parts, to get you down to 10 foreign parts.

novaDAK
January 21, 2008, 05:37 AM
Ok thanks everyone :)

I'm just considering the Saiga because I handled one yesterday at a shop and it was very comfortable to hold :)

I've taken AKs apart before so it would be no sweat to replace a part or two so I can use hi-cap mags if I want in the future :)

rbernie
January 21, 2008, 10:31 AM
How can you tell how many parts need to be replaced to be 922rcompliant?You read 922(r). :D

c) For purposes of this section, the term imported parts are:
(1) Frames, receivers, receiver castings, forgings or stampings

(2) Barrels
(3) Barrel extensions
(4) Mounting blocks (trunions)
(5) Muzzle attachments

(6) Bolts
(7) Bolt carriers
(8) Operating rods
(9) Gas pistons
(10) Trigger housings
(11) Triggers
(12) Hammers
(13) Sears
(14) Disconnectors
(15) Buttstocks
(16) Pistol grips
(17) Forearms, handguards
(18) Magazine bodies
(19) Followers
(20) Floorplates

Not all of these will apply to every firearm. So, the exercise is simple - identify the parts on the list that your imported firearm contains, count up your list, and subtract ten. The remainder is the number of US parts you must install if you are likely to run afoul of 922(r) by modifying the rifle.

The latter part of that sentence is important - just because you modify an imported rifle doesn't automatically mean that its illegal if you don't meet the US parts count.

Sec. 178.39 Assembly of semiautomatic rifles or shotguns.

(a) No person shall assemble a semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun

using more than 10 of the imported parts listed in paragraph (c) of this
section if the assembled firearm is prohibited from importation under
section 925(d)(3) as not being particularly suitable for or readily
adaptable to sporting purposes.
This is the key. The intention of the law is simple - if, and only if, the F Troop would NOT allow importation of the rifle in the configuration you intend to build, then you cannot build it yourself and circumvent the importation screening.

In the case of the Saiga, nobody's really had the cajones yet to come straight out and ask the F Troop if using a Saiga with 'normal' capacity AK mags would somehow place it afoul of 922(r). So what everyone seems to be doing is presuming that it would, and building accordingly.

Hanzerik
January 21, 2008, 04:01 PM
Quote:
Look for a x39 with dimples(in receiver around mag well)
Why is that?


The dimples will/should take out some of the side to side magazine wobble.

nalioth
January 21, 2008, 05:12 PM
Look for a x39 with dimples(in receiver around mag well)
Why is that?
The dimples will/should take out some of the side to side magazine wobble. The slab-sided Saigas have plates inside that "take out some of the side to side magazine wobble."


There is no functional difference in the dimpled and the slab-sided Saiga rifles.

Folks want the dimples because they're rare, and they can brag about having a "Saiga with dimples".

MRIman
January 21, 2008, 05:46 PM
The reason I said "look for dimples",is if
he ever wants to do a full conversion he will have
a "Standard" AK receiver,to do an AK 103 clone.
If one chooses to do a full conversion,it's got to
have dimples!!!! Will work fine without them,
but for looks,they do count!!!
When they are selling for the same price no less,
find one with the dimples!!!

MRI

nalioth
January 21, 2008, 06:15 PM
The reason I said "look for dimples",is if
he ever wants to do a full conversion he will have
a "Standard" AK receiver,to do an AK 103 clone.
If one chooses to do a full conversion,it's got to
have dimples!!!! Will work fine without them,
but for looks,they do count!!!
When they are selling for the same price no less,
find one with the dimples!!!

Unfortunately, some of the vendors that know about 'dimples' are starting to charge extra.

MRIman
January 21, 2008, 06:32 PM
2 weeks ago at a show they had a stack of x39's
with dimples for $279.
I walked away with my head hanging low.
I know I should have bought one,BUT,
I have a few too many kits to play with!! ;););)

MRI

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