CCW @ concerts?


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Lucky
January 20, 2008, 12:58 PM
If Led Zepplin were to do another tour, what's the deal with your carry piece and concerts? I haven't been to a big one in a while, do they search everyone like airports? Can a guy with a license carry? If they don't let you in are there lockers for guns, or are you to leave it in your car?

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Justin
January 20, 2008, 01:02 PM
When I saw TOOL a couple of months ago, they were wanding people. I didn't take a pistol with me. But then again, I had planned on a beer or two anyway.

DJAteOhAte
January 20, 2008, 01:05 PM
Illegal in GA. We aren't allowed to carry at "public gatherings."

Keegan
January 20, 2008, 01:09 PM
All the concerts and sporting events (even aquariums) that I've been to have people wanding or asking you to lift/open your shirt. They aren't very thorough though, so I'm not sure what they intend to find. I went to a Bengals game last fall, and all the guy did was feel under my arms. I guess he wanted to make sure I wasn't wearing a shoulder holster? Wouldn't want to carry to one of those places anyway, too many people bumping into you. I usually just take my knife.

Jorg Nysgerrig
January 20, 2008, 01:10 PM
do they search everyone like airports?
Depends on the artist and the venue.
Can a guy with a license carry?
Depends on the state. It also depends on what you mean by "Can a guy with a license carry". In most states, the property owner can ask him to leave and charge him with trespass if he doesn't. So legally, he can carry, but they venue may not have to let him in. In other states, he may not be legal to carry.
If they don't let you in are there lockers
Again, venue dependant, but as most security is done before you get in the building, it's unlikely.

RPCVYemen
January 20, 2008, 01:14 PM
No in NC.

I've actually never been to a concert that did not have big "no weapons" signs. Ignoring those signs has different repercussions in different states. In some, a violation can cost you your CCW.

Mike

CT
January 20, 2008, 01:14 PM
I've been to well over 50 large scale concerts in the past 5 years and I can think of only a few non-rock concerts, such as a few jazz shows where I HAVEN'T been frisked/searched/wanded. I even once had to take out and completely unfold a garbage bag I had in my pocket to substitute a raincoat. If it's legal to carry into a concert, I'd still advise against it purely for the scene it could potentially cause.

Another thing to keep in mind is that most, if not all concert security is either hired into the show or works at the venue and might not have the same grasp on gun laws as gun owners and/or law enforcement.

highorder
January 20, 2008, 01:17 PM
When I saw TOOL a couple of months ago, they were wanding people. I didn't take a pistol with me. But then again, I had planned on a beer or two anyway.

thats funny, I have seen TOOL 10 times since 1995, and the do indeed wand people every time. the trouble is, most of the "kids" at TOOL shows have so much leather and studs, buckles, etc on that the cursory wanding seems ineffective. Point of fact, I took a Surefire D3 and a Benchmade folder to the last show @ the Palace of Auburn Hills, and the "wander" essentially just passed me over. I guess being dressed in bluejeans and a T-shirt garners less attention than a bunch of straps, buckles, and spikes.


In addition, Michigan prohibits carry at facilities that seat more than 2500 people, so ccw was out of the question.

GRIZ22
January 20, 2008, 01:28 PM
Outside of whatever state laws say it seems to me that security depends on what kind of crowd the performer will attract. If some gangbanger drugdealer rapper with several violent felony indictments pending is performing expect metal detectors, wanding, and the SWAT on standby outside. At the other extreme if it's Tony Bennett you'd probably see the only thing security is doing is making sure no one is sneaking in. Profiling? Sure is and I don't blame them. I was at one amusement park about 20 yrs ago when they stopped selling the little souvenir baseball bats because they feraed them being used as weapons by the crowd going to the concert there (they were probaly right if you ask me).

Never have seen anyplace that provided a locker for a concert. I've seen places that won't even let a LEO carry if they weren't on official business.

bogie
January 20, 2008, 01:35 PM
Too many people = more likelihood that some drunk idjit will grab a gun, or at least try to grab one, from a holster.

I wonder how long it's going to be before some buncha terrorists tries to drive a truck bomb into an outdoor show...

Prince Yamato
January 20, 2008, 01:38 PM
Attend a symphony orchestra concert or opera... then you can most likely carry. I've never seen someone wanded at the symphony... problem solved :)

churched
January 20, 2008, 01:46 PM
In Washington state there are also laws against carrying at music festivals and such. I also do not like carrying at these venues because of the insane amount of people plus I will some times have a beer or two.

Guitargod1985
January 20, 2008, 01:48 PM
In Florida, it is legal to carry into a concert, but not to athletic events.

For example, if Led Zeppelin came to Amway Arena, you could carry.
But it would be illegal to carry into the same stadium when the Orlando Magic are playing. Stupid, but that's the law here.

Lucky
January 20, 2008, 01:54 PM
good to know. Too bad Carrying.org ceased. Planning some trips so good to know.

Quiet
January 20, 2008, 02:03 PM
good to know. Too bad Carrying.org ceased. Planning some trips so good to know.

packing.org bit the dust, but www.usacarry.com and www.handgunlaw.us are pretty good sources of info.

Bruce333
January 20, 2008, 02:09 PM
...............................

Cannonball888
January 20, 2008, 02:18 PM
they were wanding people
Zytel knife

Lucky
January 20, 2008, 02:28 PM
That's probably a bad idea. If you've got a folder on your belt it's different from a covert knife taped to your calf. Up here it'd be the difference between giving the folder to a friend and having police come decide whether charges should be laid.

CT
January 20, 2008, 02:42 PM
I wouldn't suggest the knife idea either. A majority of the times I've been searched it's a full leg, arm and torso frisking. A couple concerts even had police patrolling the security as well. A concealed knife might have an adverse effect.

DoubleTapDrew
January 20, 2008, 02:58 PM
I carry to some sporting events and concerts. It seems like country music is more lax on the security screening for some reason (make sense due to the demographics) than the rock concerts. If I see people getting wanded or having to lift their shrt I go leave it in my car, which I really hate doing. I don't go into mosh pit or packed-like-sardines areas at concerts anymore. Not my idea of a good time.

armoredman
January 20, 2008, 03:05 PM
Last concert I went to was Cheap Trick....in 1986...on a Naval base. Closest firearm was at Traffic Control, and that was a 1911A1.

Zoogster
January 20, 2008, 03:21 PM
I wonder how long it's going to be before some buncha terrorists tries to drive a truck bomb into an outdoor show...
The media is getting to you. Yes terrorists are a danger, and yes plans of action should exist for any location.
However most high profile terrorists attacks have been anything but random locations or targeting random people.

From the Oklahoma City incident where individuals were intentionaly bombing the regional headquarters of the agency responsible for the Waco incident.
To 9/11 where terrorists intentionaly targeted the World Trade Organization and the pentagon (and the crashed jet going to the whitehouse.)
The World Trade Center was a worldwide symbol of the World Trade Organization and contained many entities part of the world trade organization which manipulates and manages worldwide markets.
Guess what kinda of nations recieve the short end from many of those manipulations? You guessed it, the type of places many of those terrorists were from.
The people on the planes might have been random people, and some of those working in the buildings and emergency personel responding might have been random people, but it was not random people targeted.

I am not making excuses for either of those vicious acts, merely pointing out that it was not just terrorists targeting some random large building. They were specificly targeted for specific reasons, and involved training and funding for over a year prior to specificly attack a specific location.

So yes be ready to deal with terrorists, but don't just drink the koolaid and think every place with lots of people is a likely random target. So far that has not been the case. It could happen with a lone nutjob or two, but so far the types of terrorists successful have been a little more selective in thier targets than just some large cluster of people.

iiibdsiil
January 20, 2008, 08:04 PM
Most of the concerts I've been to, I could have gotten my gun into, which surprises me, since it was country music. You know rednecks are all drunks and gun-toting. ;)

Now, the club I went to in Atlanta (House) for a buddy's birthday... They should hire the man at the door to work frisk inmates or something. I doubt I could have gotten a frigin 9mm round in, and they weren't using a metal detector.

PTK
January 20, 2008, 08:08 PM
Personally, I do not carry a firearm into any concert area. Not only are most places posted, I consider concerts quite low-danger areas.

Doesn't mean I don't still have other means of defense, however.

GRIZ22
January 20, 2008, 10:09 PM
I wonder how long it's going to be before some buncha terrorists tries to drive a truck bomb into an outdoor show...


How is your pistol going to stop a truck bomb?

TwitchALot
January 20, 2008, 10:20 PM
I've only been to one, and I'd say that's probably the last place you'd want to CCW, not because you won't need it, but because retention is tough, among many reasons. A lot of people get pick pocketed just because it's so easy when so many people are bumping into you. IF you are going to carry (and I'd recommend against it), get a level III retention holster and check it often.

Furthermore, there are just so many people at concerts that even if there were a threat, there'd probably be no way for you to get a good shot anyway. Tack on the possible security measures you may face, and it's just a bad idea to carry to a concert, IMO.

.455_Hunter
January 20, 2008, 11:37 PM
I usually carry my NAA Mini to Denver rock concerts. The posted signage declaring "no weapons" has no legal weight, and since the security check points are not permanent stations, if you can get it through, you are good to go. If they somehow discover your weapon (why should they?- it should be DEEPLY CONCEALED, not a full size 1911 or Glock in a dumb IWB), you must refuse to leave before you could be picked-up for a trespassing charge. They don't wand people because, like a previous poster stated, the general attire of rock concert goers would make the chore impossible. I just put the Mini in a crotch holster, and trust me, they DON'T pat down there. Also, here in CO, its legal to enjoy A beer and still CCW. I have no concern about the people in the concerts, its the walk to the venue and back to my car that I worry about. In case you don't know, Denver's best venues are located in some of the seediest parts of town (East Colfax, Broadway, near the Rescue Mission, etc). Sometimes, unsavory types are present. If you have questions about the security at a given venue, just call a few days ahead of time and say your teenage daughter is going to a concert and you are concerned about the security they provide to keep her safe.

As a side note, I attend these shows to enjoy the music and to people watch. As a legally armed citizen, I DO NOT engage in activities that could get me into an "incident", such as excessive drinking, drugs, playing in the the mosh pit or enjoying the front row shenanigans.

Hunter

romma
January 21, 2008, 08:49 AM
Last concert I went to was Cheap Trick....in 1986...on a Naval base. Closest firearm was at Traffic Control, and that was a 1911A1.


Wow! 86'? A real concert lover eh armoredman? ;)

Cannonball888
January 21, 2008, 08:53 AM
The posted signage declaring "no weapons" has no legal weight
Not in Florida either. Again, Zytel knife gets past the wands.

wheelgunslinger
January 21, 2008, 09:42 AM
I mostly just go to small venue club shows and bypass the arena rock, since VanHalen isn't playing or young anymore.
At the last few club shows I've attended, I didn't carry because I wanted to enjoy myself. So, I cram my wallet into my front pocket, take my watch off and put that in the other pocket and have fun.
But, a lot of the metal shows I go to are attended more and more by skinheads/white power guys, and up til recently (when I wanted to begin working in Law Enforcement) I had long hair and dressed like a hippie. So, there was always a lot of tension. If something happened between me and Mr. Flightjacket, I didn't want to get processed with an illegal (meaning unlawfully concealed not stolen, etc...) weapon.
Now that I've got a buzzcut and am getting muscled up again, it's less of an issue since I'm giving a nod to their social standards.
However, at some of the more tame shows I attend (like southern culture on the skids, madeline peyroux, etc), I did carry because of the return trip home or to the car. The doormen don't ever pat you down in a club and if you mind your business you won't have a problem. And, if you NEED that firearm, you have it. Which is precisely why I carry in the first place.

But, I'd rather not carry at all so I can bounce around and have fun. :D

doc540
January 21, 2008, 10:14 AM
I'm a working musician playing classic rock on a classic bass while carrying a classic Smith.

Maybe we should just change the band name to "The Classics".:D

Around here if I'm not performing I usually check out the show entrances looking for legal "no guns" signs and personal searches. If I see either one I go back to my car and leave my gun. Otherwise, I'm fully dressed and ready to rock'n'roll.

I also learned the hard way to only carry cheap pocket knives. Had a decent one confiscated by security at the Toyota Center in Houston. I asked them if they would just set it aside so I could reclaim it after the show, but they said they couldn't and were tossing everything in a trash can. It was open seating and I was with a group of friends, so rather than hike back to the car, I just watched them shltcan it. :cuss:

RKBABob
January 21, 2008, 10:30 AM
Last time I went to a concert was at a big music festival a few towns over. Outdoor concert venue, smallish crowd. To get in, you must pass a security checkpoint, and have your bags searched by some tattooed Hell's Angels... since women mostly carry bags to concerts, they're the only ones who are really searched. No frisking or metal detectors... but maybe next year.

Once inside, there were Pa Liquor Control Board officers at the beer tent, 8 or so local cops watching the seating area, and volunteers and private security by the stage. Once the concert was over, all the same people were there, with the addition of 2 state troopers on horseback.

While nobody likes to be disarmed and helpless, any situation that happened at that particular concert would probably get the attention of some officers pretty quickly.

Also, how useful would a pistol be in such a crowded area? It seems to me that it would be easier to evade an attacker in a crowd than it would be to get a clean shot with a pistol... just sayin'


I went to an airshow (I believe it was at Eglin AFB) a few years back. That was a VERY thorough search by guys with rifles! Even the smallest pocket knife was confiscated and labeled for return to its owner. They even closely studied my PEN! I learned that one attendee had an X-Acto knife in his boot, wrapped in electrical tape... seemed a little strange. Once inside, AF Security Forces were everywhere, armed with rifles. That was another time I felt reasonably safe, even if I was disarmed.


If we're to be disarmed, the folks who set the rules need to provide an adequate level of security... they did just that in the above examples, and I feel that I was safe because of that. Now, about gun-free zones at schools and shopping malls... if they had about 20 police officers, or some guys in camo with M16s, maybe I'd be a bit more comfortable with that.

doc540
January 21, 2008, 10:36 AM
"Also, how useful would a pistol be in such a crowded area?"

Well, we can't actually ask Lee Harvey Oswald, but I'm just sayin';)

Wedge
January 21, 2008, 10:43 AM
Nope.

gunnie
January 21, 2008, 11:05 AM
the best way to overcome violent confrontation is to avoid it.

anyone who even OWNS a firearm should be required to read ayoob's "in the gravest extreme". lots of good advice there, from a cop who had to go in and pick up the post-shoot pieces and make sense of it for the LEO reports.

if the place i'm thinking of going to seems dangerous enough to need a firearm, i just don't go anymore. if you ~HAVE~ to go, another scenario all together. but a concert doesn't seem worth it to me if i feel endangered being there.

just my new old timer S.O.P., gleaned from MANY bad experiences in the wrong places. and yeah, i saw all the big names in the "love peace and happiness" sanfran bay hippie daze. by the time the counter-culture had hit bottom, and the drug wino's were all that remained in the Hait-Ashbury district, parking in SF for a night at winterland or the fillmore west was ridiculous.

it got so bad that a bud of mine used to leave his car doors unlocked to avoid the need to replace a window. you guessed it, checking for unlocked doors took too long, so they broke his window anyway. later it became one of the most violent areas one could go to, short of the oakland ghetto.

i wonder now at my youthfull ignorance that would expose me to these situations. if i had the same database to re-decide these choices now, i'd wait 35 years and rent the video instead.

gunnie

RKBABob
January 21, 2008, 02:18 PM
"Also, how useful would a pistol be in such a crowded area?"

Well, we can't actually ask Lee Harvey Oswald, but I'm just sayin'
TOUCHE!

bogie
January 21, 2008, 02:30 PM
As for a terrorist situation... In the US they've gone after relatively few targets. In Europe and the middle east, they've gone after schools, crowded subways, ships, housing complexes, and crowded shopping areas. I'm guessing that Israel doesn't have a great number of large gatherings of people...

Frankly, concerts generally don't make me worried, unless it involves a "walk to the car while nobody else is around" situation, and that's just plain out. If I'm going downtown, I'm taking metro to my car, along with a BUNCH of other folks. If I'm at the big local outdoor venue, there's plenty of other folks around. Worse that can happen is that some guy gets drunk and decides to prove that he's stupid... I can handle that without a boomstick.

What worries me is that sooner or later some middle eastern nutjob is going to go after a target rich environment over here... Imagine a high school basketball game... Generally 3-4 terrorists could control something like that. Or just blow everything up... Imagine 3-4 guys, each wearing a vest with five kilos of semtex, and 20 kilos of nails, etc... That could be really ugly...

thorn726
January 21, 2008, 04:25 PM
form twitchalot:
I've only been to one, and I'd say that's probably the last place you'd want to CCW, not because you won't need it, but because retention is tough, among many reasons. A lot of people get pick pocketed just because it's so easy when so many people are bumping into you. IF you are going to carry (and I'd recommend against it), get a level III retention holster and check it often.

Furthermore, there are just so many people at concerts that even if there were a threat, there'd probably be no way for you to get a good shot anyway. Tack on the possible security measures you may face, and it's just a bad idea to carry to a concert, IMO.

exactly.

SEARCHING= count on it. at the very least they are going to check for bottles, cans, and possibly cameras depending on Zep's rights deal.

you would never convince me you are a good enough shot not to hit me in a crowd that tight, please leave your gun at home. (or locked well in your car)

Eric F
January 21, 2008, 04:43 PM
On this subject I can only say this,

I worked concert security for a long time. At metal head venues and the like ie wresteling rap concerts ect. we hand searched every one meaning pat down. Every one at the places we worked were told 2 times and passed no less than 4 signs that guns/knives/weapons were not allowed. If you chose to get up to the search area and did not disarm by that point you were put to the ground(by concert security) hand cuffed by local law enforcement and removed. Now what they did was run your record if valid let go and warned if not valid off to jail you went. But that was local authority and venue specific rules.
I sugest checking local laws and rules. In short I am willing to bet if beer is sold there will be a no gun rule.

The Viking
January 21, 2008, 04:48 PM
Considering that I mostly go to punk and hardcore shows, I wouldn't carry even if I could. I'd lose my piece within five minutes of moshing.

PA1749
January 21, 2008, 04:49 PM
Just make sure that you read up on the venue and event rules. Most of the time they don't even allow glass bottles let alone firearms.

mekender
January 21, 2008, 05:19 PM
ive been to hundreds of concerts, not only as a paying member of the crowd, but as a yellow shirted security guy, and as an interviewer for a magazine... i dotn even carry my wallet in to em any more... ive seen too many people have their pockets ripped open, clothing ripped off, beaten up etc... even backstage is no place to carry... there are too many things going on all at once to keep track of a weapon like that... i always make sure that i know where exits are located and how to get to em...

i have found that in most cases, a violent situation will be broken up by the crowd within a few seconds, so the likelihood of needing or being able to effectively use a firearm is almost nil, especially when it comes to all of the bystanders that are floating around... now rock and rap concerts are different from symphonies and country music shows... but still, there are so many people in such a small place that using a weapon would be highly impractical...

keep in mind that i have been on the floor of shows that vary from marlyn manson, korn and rob zombie, to matchbox twenty, rascal flats and the beach boys... some crowds are VERY rowdy, others pretty tame... i have had to fight my way out of crowds on more than one occasion, including cases where i have had to drag injured people to medical care... i have broken up more fights than i care to count... i have also seen people loose every possible pocket carry item imaginable... i have personally found cell phones, oakley sunglasses, rings, money, car keys, and even once a diamond bracelet... so i would really hesitate to bring a pistol...

just imagine if you are in a crowd and get jostled around, your gun falls out and gets stepped on by a couple of hundred people... how possible is it for the gun to go off in that situation?

armoredman
January 21, 2008, 09:08 PM
:)romma, you're right, not a concert goer at all. Music's too loud, (I guess that means I am to old), too crowded, too expensive. I'd rather buy the album and listen at home without the added distractions.
That's just me, I have nothing against concerts at all, enjoy in good health!:)

pete f
January 21, 2008, 10:35 PM
Last big show I went to was Rush in late fall, I carried my Commander owb under a big shirt, mind you, I am close to 50 years old, but when the guy went to frisk me, I looked at him and asked "do you have a warrant" and he just sorta stumbled and mumbled and I said "I didn't think so" and I walked right past him.

Younger kids might have a problem, but if your over 30 just say no and walk right past them.

Autolycus
January 22, 2008, 12:05 AM
Originally posted by RKBABob: If we're to be disarmed, the folks who set the rules need to provide an adequate level of security... they did just that in the above examples, and I feel that I was safe because of that. Now, about gun-free zones at schools and shopping malls... if they had about 20 police officers, or some guys in camo with M16s, maybe I'd be a bit more comfortable with that.

You are choosing to be disarmed. If you do not like their business practices, do not go there.

Autolycus
January 22, 2008, 12:09 AM
Originally posted by Pete F: Last big show I went to was Rush in late fall, I carried my Commander owb under a big shirt, mind you, I am close to 50 years old, but when the guy went to frisk me, I looked at him and asked "do you have a warrant" and he just sorta stumbled and mumbled and I said "I didn't think so" and I walked right past him.

Younger kids might have a problem, but if your over 30 just say no and walk right past them.

Bad advice. This is a good way to get arrested and possibly hurt by security or LEOs. They do not need a warrant. It is a condition of entry to get into most concerts. If you choose not to you and enter you are violating their rights as business owners and property owners.

Zoogster
January 22, 2008, 02:05 AM
Last big show I went to was Rush in late fall, I carried my Commander owb under a big shirt, mind you, I am close to 50 years old, but when the guy went to frisk me, I looked at him and asked "do you have a warrant" and he just sorta stumbled and mumbled and I said "I didn't think so" and I walked right past him.

Younger kids might have a problem, but if your over 30 just say no and walk right past them.

Bad advice. This is a good way to get arrested and possibly hurt by security or LEOs. They do not need a warrant. It is a condition of entry to get into most concerts. If you choose not to you and enter you are violating their rights as business owners and property owners.

Well technicaly they cannot search you without your consent and they do not have any legal authority to do anything without your concent. However they can just tell you to get lost and you cannot enter.
If they choose to do more they are leaving themselves and the venue open to lawsuit by overstepping thier bounds.

I don't go to any recreational event that searches me, regardless of whether I have something to find or not. If there is that little right to privacy and respect to the customers then obviously I am not the target audience.

jackstinson
January 22, 2008, 10:24 AM
Heck, I had to throw away the 1.5" penknife on my key ring just to get into a Lyle Lovett concert! I'd hate to try to take my carry gun into OzzFest!
BTW- The Ohio CHL permits only allow concealed "handgun" carry, knives are not part of the deal.
Jack

Wedge
January 22, 2008, 10:27 AM
Last big show I went to was Rush in late fall, I carried my Commander owb under a big shirt, mind you, I am close to 50 years old, but when the guy went to frisk me, I looked at him and asked "do you have a warrant" and he just sorta stumbled and mumbled and I said "I didn't think so" and I walked right past him.


If there was every a concert to NOT need to carry that would be it. (I saw them in August, and I am listening to my own personal fan's deep cut dream setlist). Plan on going to see them again in April.

Neil Peart probably would have shook your hand for denying their search.

ranger58
January 22, 2008, 11:49 AM
not in MI, any type of sporting event over 2500 people, I would think could involve concerts is prohibited.

Kimber1911_06238
January 22, 2008, 12:49 PM
local concert venue here frisks everyone, no guns allowed permit or not. I had to walk back to my truck and put away a 1.5" knife that was on my keychain

never_retreat
January 22, 2008, 01:31 PM
The best place for your folder is in the bottom of your shoe/boot. No one except an airport searches shoes. I guess thats because no one wants to look as stupid as airport security. Couple of tricks are to use flat style knife, and try not to make it obvious by limping. I usually carried a 4 inch crkt.
FWI I got though a upright style scanner just by dragging that foot. (I wasn't expecting any kind of security to start with, so hey decided to give it a try)(the knife isn't illegal anyway, nothing to do but ask be to leave.)

ExSoldier
January 22, 2008, 01:42 PM
I guess it's a good thing that my wife and I just abhor crowds. We never go to sports events, concerts or to the mall during the holiday season. When I would take my kid to the county fair I never carried. First off it's a huge liability and will likely cause more harm than good. Tactically speaking there are other weapons to be had and just as deadly when the quarters are so tight. Secondly, the county fair in my area is overrun with LEOs.

I love to play the arcade games at those places. Last time I went (sheesh I can't remember how many years it's been) I was in this area playing that game SNIPER SCOPE and after awhile I noticed I had drawn a small crowd. Well, two. Off to my right rear were the kids shouting WOW, another head shot!

Then to my left rear I heard deeper voices. I glanced around to see about 20 cops all standing around to watch and discussing my tactics and score. That broke my concentration and my score went down the tubes. When the game finished the kids wandered off. I started to leave but one of the cops politely snagged me by the sleeve and asked how come somebody "my age" was so good at a shooting game? I handed him my business card (Certified Firearms Instructor) and his buddies all started laughing at him and encouraging him to ask me to teach him how to get a better score on the dept pistol quals. He was a rookie kid, anyway.

mekender
January 22, 2008, 05:18 PM
Well technicaly they cannot search you without your consent and they do not have any legal authority to do anything without your concent. However they can just tell you to get lost and you cannot enter.
If they choose to do more they are leaving themselves and the venue open to lawsuit by overstepping thier bounds.

I don't go to any recreational event that searches me, regardless of whether I have something to find or not. If there is that little right to privacy and respect to the customers then obviously I am not the target audience.

i suggest you read the back of your ticket... in most places, using the ticket is consent for search of you and your property... just like you agree not to hold the venue liable for injury at a show...

http://www.ticketmaster.com/h/purchase.html

You Are Subject to Search
You and your belongings may be searched on entry. You consent to such searches and waive any related claims that may arise. If you elect not to consent to such searches, you may be denied entry to the event without refund or other compensation. Under certain facility rules, certain items may not be brought into the premises, including without limitation, alcohol, drugs, controlled substances, cameras, recording devices, bundles and containers.

you agree to that when you attempt to enter the venue with a ticketmaster ticket... i would bet that all of the other ticket brokers have the same wording... notice, weapons are not mentioned, but that does not mean that the venue or the promoter cant prohibit them

ronaldbeal
January 22, 2008, 06:44 PM
mekender wrote: "i suggest you read the back of your ticket... in most places, using the ticket is consent for search of you and your property... just like you agree not to hold the venue liable for injury at a show..."

A ticket is an agreement by several parties... you the purchaser, and by proxy, ticketmaster, the venue, the promoter, etc... When you purchase and use the ticket, it is not magic and perpetual... you may revoke your consent to be searched, just as the promoter may revoke your privilege of being in his venue.

An example:
Say I decide to see a band, and I buy my ticket. That ticket is an agreement that says I give the ticket seller some money,and return, I get to go see the show, as long as I obey their rules.
So I get to the venue and in order to get in, I must submit to a search. At this point, I can allow them to search me, (their rules) and I see the show, Or I can decline to be searched, and I don't get to see the show. The moment I decline to be searched, the ticket is no longer valid, and any "right" they have to search me vanishes. If they attempt to search me after I have declined, they will be criminally and civilly liable. (people have sued, and pressed criminal charges and won, a number of times.)

Now say I get into the show without problems, and part way through the show, security pulls my over to the side, and wants to search me. I can consent, and assuming I haven't broken any other rules, continue to stay and watch the show, OR I can at that moment revoke my consent to be searched. At that moment, the agreement enumerated in the ticket has been breeched, and I no longer have a "right" to stay and watch the show.
I must leave, or be guilty of trespass. But again, once I have revoked my consent, security may no longer search me, and any attempt to do so may result in a successful lawsuit against the promoter/venue/security, etc...

So yes, "technically they cannot search you without your consent and they do not have any legal authority to do anything without your consent."


<---Not a lawyer, but I did take entertainment law in college (which included discussions on this very subject.)
Also a concert lighting professional for 13 years, I work with the venues, promoters, security, artists, and management on a daily basis.
Hope it clears it up some.
RB

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