whisper


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dakotasin
January 20, 2008, 02:15 PM
what is the performance difference between a 300 and 338 whisper? which would lend itself better to a suppressed ar-15 platform? which requires the least amount of work on the ar to run properly?

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Click Click Boom
January 20, 2008, 02:20 PM
I would also like to know the difference betwen them as well as .338 Whisper vs .338 Spectre

highorder
January 20, 2008, 02:25 PM
the .300 whisper is based on the (.378 boltface) .221 fireball, and is designed to run on the AR platform. The .338 whisper is based on the (.473) 7mm BR case and is designed to be chambered in bolt action rifles. I have never seen one, but it may be possible to chamber an AR-10 for the .338 whisper.

RedLion
January 20, 2008, 04:36 PM
Are those whisper cartridges really that effective?

because i have heard that they do minimal damage to the target unless you load specially designed subsonic bullets which have low B.C.s making them very close range bullets.

dakotasin
January 21, 2008, 01:40 AM
thanks for the insight!

so, if i were to go the 300 whisper route, normal ar-15 mags work just fine? what about a 300-223 cartridge in a suppressed ar-15? (i have no fireball experience, so excuse me if the questions are too rudimentary)

i am starting the paperwork process now (actually started it a couple weeks ago), and need to make a decision on uppers/suppressors, etc. are there any options that are better than a 300 whisper?

thanks for any more help!

Khornet
January 21, 2008, 11:33 AM
A T/C Encore. We use 200-350 gr bullets, small rifle benchrest primers, and pistol powders like 2400, 4227, HP38. We use a chrono and try for subsonic muzzle velocities since the rifle is suppressed. Best results are with 300 gr bullets; the twist is not fast enough to stabilize the 350s.

It's very quiet, and if you are standing in the parking lot near the 50 yard berm you can hear a low buzz as the bullet passes. Then a resounding thud as it hits the 100 yd berm.

I've no doubt an AR-10 platform could feed this round. I have no experience with the .300.

highorder
January 21, 2008, 03:06 PM
so, if i were to go the 300 whisper route, normal ar-15 mags work just fine? what about a 300-223 cartridge in a suppressed ar-15? (i have no fireball experience, so excuse me if the questions are too rudimentary)


the .221 fireball and the .223 are both derived from the .222 remington.

Are those whisper cartridges really that effective?

because i have heard that they do minimal damage to the target unless you load specially designed subsonic bullets which have low B.C.s making them very close range bullets.


they are quite effective. consider that they(.300 whisper) are launching 180 gr. bullets @1000fps, better than .40S&W ballistics, with a long bullet with a high S.D. and a HIGH B.C.

jerkface11
January 21, 2008, 03:12 PM
You should look into .30 HRT which is just a rimless version of .30 herrett using necked up 6.8spc cases. You can do subsonic loads or shoot .30-30 like loads. I'm having one built as a deer gun. Should be here in a month or so too.

Jim Watson
January 21, 2008, 03:25 PM
.300x223 would be too long for an AR magazine. Which is why ol' JD picked the .221 brass to start with.

JD claims that a 240 gr SMK at 1050 fps from a .300 Whisper yaws on impact with flesh and cuts a gash like a sword thrust, plus the impact.

Fumbler
January 21, 2008, 06:09 PM
I can't answer dakotasin's questions, but I can say what I've heard about the performance.
A guy I used to work with works for the US Forest Service.
He once went on a backpacking trip in the smokey mountains. His job was to cull Russian black boars.
They gave him a suppressed and scoped T/C Contender chambered in 300 Whisper with 300gr SMKs.
He said he never had to shoot a boar more than once.
Pull the trigger, thump, dead pig.

So, I guess they work, even with non-hunting bullets.

Tony Williams
January 21, 2008, 09:21 PM
There is an article on my website on subsonic ammunition for suppressed rifles, including data and photographs, HERE (http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/silcart.html)

http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/silcarts2.jpg

There's another article on the Teppo Jutsu range (including the .30 HRT) HERE (http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/TeppoJutsu.htm)

http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/TeppoJutsuW.jpg

From left to right: .30 HRT (110 grain Hornady V-Max); .338 Spectre – 300 grain Sierra Hollow Point Boat Tail Match King) and 300 grain HAWK Round Nose; .458 SOCOM – 300 grain Barnes X Spitzer, 400 grain Barnes Round Nose Solid and 600 grain Barnes Original; .500 Phantom - 168 grain Sierra HPBTMK (saboted), 700 grain HAWK and 750 grain Hornady A-Max.

RedLion
January 22, 2008, 01:24 AM
they are quite effective. consider that they(.300 whisper) are launching 180 gr. bullets @1000fps, better than .40S&W ballistics, with a long bullet with a high S.D. and a HIGH B.C.

Thats what I've heard, but at the same time people have said that the bullet has terrible terminal ballistics ( ie through-and-through not tumbling) kind of like the argument against using FMJ handgun bullets versus hollow points. does anyone have ballistics gel pics or something like that?

Fumbler
January 22, 2008, 03:19 AM
This is one of the best tables I've ever seen with terminal ballistics data.
http://stevespages.com/jpg/bestbullet.jpg

Notice the SMK doesn't reliably do squat (just looking at bullet deformation) til you push it 2200fps. Of course we'd need gelatin tests to really see. Just cause it doesn't deform doesn't mean it doesn't do damage.
If you're looking at hunting with a subsonic 30 cal then you'd probably want to find the softest round nose you can.
http://stevespages.com/jpg/bestbullet.jpg

Khornet
January 22, 2008, 10:53 AM
Hawk and A-Square make bullets designed to expand at Whisper velocities.

jerkface11
January 22, 2008, 11:19 AM
There are .30 cal single shot pistol bullets that should work quite well in a whisper.

skinewmexico
January 22, 2008, 07:27 PM
I am dying to build a suppressed bolt action, so I can hunt hogs from a stand. My wife does not share my enthusiasm.

dakotasin
January 23, 2008, 02:36 AM
fellas... thanks for the help - i think i'll do one up in 300 whisper. it seems to be the most flexible option available.

as for hunting, no state i hunt in permits suppressed weapons for hunting. besides, i have much more suitable chamberings for hunting.

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