Some thoughts on guns like the G11 and AN-94


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Evil Monkey
January 21, 2008, 01:31 PM
These rifles were designed to increase hit probabilities, right? As far as I know, they are designed so that the rounds fired will be extremely close to each other will little dispersion.

OK..........so if the first round misses the target, then any round after it will miss. Then what's the point? Could you argue that it's not really increasing the chances of a hit?

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GunTech
January 21, 2008, 02:20 PM
This comes from the Hitchman study. Test with specially prepared guns showed that multiple serial rounds (or multiple projectiles from the same round) could increase hit probability.

Do a google for duplex and triplex rounds.

Ian
January 21, 2008, 02:49 PM
I think it's a two-part plan. The dispersion is large enough that a near miss from a single projectile could become a hit from one of a two or three round burst. Also, two or three hits increases the likelihood of inflicting a major wound, where a single projectile might cause only a minor wound (both the G11 and AN-94 use small calibers).

Evil Monkey
January 21, 2008, 03:53 PM
Also, two or three hits increases the likelihood of inflicting a major wound,

I often thought that was a much more favorable result than the probability of a single hit. It would create a complex wound pattern that would be superior to a single wound caused by a large caliber bullet.

The dispersion doesn't make sense to me. In order to increase hits against an enemy, standing or running, a 3 round burst must have a "shotgun" like pattern. The problem is if it's too large, you may risk missing the target. I believe the Steyr ACR had that problem. You must find the sweet spot.

I figured the savlo approach might be futile based on a couple of observations.

If the rifle is to shoot a burst of ammo accurately, at a rate of fire exceeding 2,000rpm, then you would have a group of bullets that are very close to each other and without much stray. That would mean....

1. stationary target---if the first round missed (operator error) then the others also missed.

2. moving target (running speed)---Here's where the concept shines, I suppose. If the first round misses, the target may run into the following rounds. There's the increase in hits. But what about duplex loads? Would they be fired so close to each other that if the first round missed then the second surely would miss too? Thus, giving an unsatisfactory results? I guess you would have to find the sweet spot in rate of fire too, in order to keep the bullets a certain amount of distance away from each other.

I still would like to see the results from the ACR tests.

Ian
January 21, 2008, 04:18 PM
I don't have it in front of me to reference from, but the Collector Grade book "The Black Rifle" has a bunch of great info about the duplex and triplex experiments run by the Army back in the 50s/60s.

Tony Williams
January 21, 2008, 09:15 PM
It depends on the range.

At short range, a close burst increases the chances of multiple hits for greater effectiveness.

At longer ranges, the bullets have had time to spread somewhat, which increases the chances of getting a single hit.

Multiple-bullet loadings in larger calibres have similar effects, except of course that they can't be expected to have the same long-range performance since the bullets are necessarily rather short and fat.

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