Heavy Clothing Effect on Handgun Hollowpoints


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doc540
January 21, 2008, 10:45 PM
This has probably been discussed a thousand times, but take a look at the results from the "Box O' Truth":

Clothing defeats hollowpoint expansion (http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot8.htm)

After posting in the frangible thread and recalling Joe Zambone's video, it reminded me that clothing can, indeed, prevent hollowpoint handgun ammo from expanding.

Something to think about and discuss.

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zxcvbob
January 21, 2008, 10:51 PM
If the hollow point doesn't expand, it penetrates deeper. That's not necessarily a bad thing -- especially if it lost a lot of energy going thru a heavy coat.

lanternlad1
January 21, 2008, 10:54 PM
I thought that was one of the reasons that CorBon PowerBalls worked so well - they don't get clogged by clothing. At least thats what CorBon claims.

def4pos8
January 21, 2008, 11:02 PM
Modern hollow-points, like Hornady's XTP, Speer's Gold Dot, Remington's Golden Sabre, etc, are designed to satisfy the FBI's penetration criteria developed after a disastrous shoot-out in Florida back in the '80s.

The FBI criteria dictate sufficient penetration and wound cavity in a human target AFTER transit of intervening media such as wall board, windshield glass, automotive sheet metal and clothing, including leather coats.

I happen to like Hornady's XTP because Hornady states the range of impact velocities at which a particular projectile will perform per specification.

doc540
January 21, 2008, 11:16 PM
Can anyone document that my Speer Gold Dots in .38 will effectively expand after transition through heavy clothing?

The Box O' Truth only tested Hydrashocks and Corbons, neither of which performed up to snuff through heavy clothing.

I assume they don't satisfy the FBI penetration critieria and the Gold Dots do?

scbair
January 22, 2008, 07:45 AM
OK, as an old geezer, let me simply advise all interested readers that an inordinate (and unnecessary) amount of time is expended contemplating the latest, greatest, high-tech, guaranteed whiz-bang manstomper ammo.

I'm a hunter, and an ex-LEO. I've seen humans continue to function after more devastating injuries than any handgun round could inflict. I've seen 150 pound deer run for considerable distances after having .30-06 JSPs strike the heart/lung area.

Regardless of weather & clothing factors (from t-shirt summers to arctic winters), for either self defens or hunting, focus on two things:

1) Use a round with sufficient power to penetrate adequately; My minimum is .38 +P with 158 grain bullets. Expansion is nice, but the bullet MUST penetrate or it's useless.

2) Place the bullet(s) into the vital zone. A peripheral hit with a .50 BMG is likely to be less effective than a center hit with a service handgun.

Of course, given adequate placement and penetration, the bullet that does the most damage within the target is best. But this third factor pales in comparison to the first two, and NO bullet offers a 100% effectiveness rate.

Get a good sidearm, in a service caliber, ensure its reliability, and PRACTICE.

doc540
January 22, 2008, 11:29 AM
Thanks, scbair.

I guess my question now related to #1:

"1) Use a round with sufficient power to penetrate adequately; My minimum is .38 +P with 158 grain bullets. Expansion is nice, but the bullet MUST penetrate or it's useless."

Will a .38+P Gold Dot penetrate adequately and expand after going through thick clothing?

Does anyone know this for a fact and can document it out there in internets land somewhere?:confused:

Grandpa Shooter
January 22, 2008, 12:28 PM
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=333066

In this thread you will see a man shot with a hollowpoint with minimal damage when only wearing trousers. The type of bullet is not the key factor. Shot placement is.

doc540
January 22, 2008, 12:45 PM
Thanks, I read and commented in that thread. I understand shot placement is job one.

Ok, then let me further clarify:

I'm not asking what "the" key factor is since we agree on that; I'm just asking if my Speer Gold Dots will expand after transversing thick clothing, and I'm asking if anyone can document an answer.

Anyone?

NCHornet
January 22, 2008, 01:11 PM
You will here this and then here that on the net, you can drive yourself crazy. The GD is a fine SD round and you are well protected if you have done your part. Can I say it will penetrate 11" through Eskimo clothing, NO, there are to many variables in a shooting to have a clear cut Yes or No. Maybe it will penetrate the jacket but then hit a belt buckle who knows, what about the angle it is shot at, distance, does the round hit bone matter, get what I am saying?
THERE IS NO MAGIC BULLET!!!
All of the top ammo manufacturers make great SD ammo, Speer GD's, Hornaday XTP, Hydrashoks, Silvertips, Corbon, Double Tap are just a few. I wouldn't think twice about carrying SD rounds from any of these companies.
NCH

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