[AirForceShooter]

I'm looking for the regs that allow you to ship a BP by Mail.

did a search and it didn't come up

thanks

AFS

[bigbadgun]

you can always use UPS I dont know if you can with USPS

[Im283]

UPS or Fed-Ex no problems, dunno about USPS

[GENTLEMAN OF THE CHARCOAL]

Well, they'vd damn sure got some regs there somewhere on it because BP is classified as an explosive...Okay...
Also, when you order BP substitute, caps or primers Cabela's will charge you a $20.00 hazardous shipping fee and explain to you that those items are non-returnable and must be shipped by ground. They ship by UPS truck. I can guarantee you that the United States Postal Service has plenty of regulations concerning the shipping of any of the above mentioned items. As far as real blackpowder goes? Hell, the USPS may not even ship it under any conditions and on top of that they may put your name on a list you don't want it to be on. Anyway, I can also guarantee you that you'll get your name AND your ass somewhere you don't want it to be if you try to sneak it through and get caught..A word to the wise...Okay...
ADD ON---Also sir, I believe that when you go into any U.S. Post office, if you look around real good you will be a placard on the wall in there somewhere explaining the rules and regulations concerning what may and may not be shipped through the U.S. Postal Service. I believe that placard has quite a bit to say about explosives, explosive devices, etc........

[bigbadgun]

Airforceshooter
Are you trying to mail black powder or a black powder gun because this can make a difference .
I just got off the phone with the USPS and was told that if you are shipping a pre 1898 weapon that does not fire rim fire or center fire ammo then you are in good shape and if you want insurance then you can mark anique firearm.
But if you are looking to mail black powder the stuff you put in the gun then you are out of luck.

[AirForceShooter]

The Gun.
That was the orginal question.

AFS

[bigbadgun]

Well there you go AFS I hope I help a little.

[GENTLEMAN OF THE CHARCOAL]

Yeah, that's right.
Air Force Shooter if you'll go back and check your post you'll find you only said BP. That's why I told you that stuff.
BBG is right. There are no regs on shipping a blackpowder firearm. Sorry I misunderstood what you meant...Okay...

[Macmac]

So he missed a little detail. details details details..

My system crashed last night and the "EEK" smiley won't work. I am just kiddin around..

[scrat]

i have had two bp guns sent 1 by fedex and the other by ups. The ups was not old. it was a brand new cva buckhorn.

[mp510]

USPS is perfectly legal for shipping BP (original or repro) or other antique long-guns or handguns. Metellic Cartridge handguns must have been made before 1 JAN 1899 for a non-licensee to ship it via US Mail.
http://www.usps.com/cpim/ftp/pubs/pub52.htm

431.3 Antique Firearm
An antique firearm (including those with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) is any firearm manufactured in or before 1898, or any replica of such a firearm, that meets either of the following conditions:
a. It is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition.
b. It uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition, which is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available through ordinary commercial trade channels.

c. Unloaded antique firearms sent as curios or museum pieces are generally permitted as specified in Exhibit 432.1 and DMM C024.2.0.

[Snaggletooth]

I have sent and received BP firearms through the US Postal Service. No problem.. Ive told them whar it is and offered to show them. I'm told that wouldnt be necessary

[Smoke Stick by Five]

Yes We do frown on Guns of any sort shown on Postal Premises. Loaded or unloaded. Remeber that only former postal employees shoot at the office. After the first round they have said they quit.

[whosyrdaddy]

...........btt...................

[Macmac]

BP to me means black POWDER. BPG might mean black powder gun....

The question is answered, but still you may mail a BP gun... You had better not mail POWDER!

[deanodog]

I just called a supervisor at the post office and asked about shipment and they told me NO. Anything that can be fired in any fashion cannot be mailed except by a FFL. Non firing o k. I guess it's according to where you live. This is in East Ky. UPS told me the same thing but I still am going to call the Haz.Mat number for a ruling. Does anyone have that 1 800 no? These same people told me I could not ship ammo(UPS) until I called the Haz-mat no. and they said o k.

[Ed Ames]

Calling is about as pointless as asking gas station attendants. Research the laws and do what's legal. If they give you chaffe point out the laws and keep doing what what you were doing.

Long guns of any type can be mailed by anyone. The limitations are that the rifle/shotgun must be mailed to another person in the same state, or to the sender in another state, or to an FFL. So you can mail the gun to your coworker, or to yourself at the hunting lodge, or to an FFL (not just a dealer) across the country and you don't need an FFL.

Antique (per the legal definition) handguns can be mailed.

Modern cartridge handguns are the only guns that have serious mailing restrictions.

[deanodog]

Ed Ames
Good advise but I give up. I have had three sales if I could ship but had to back out. I have three blackpowder pistols for sale but I edited them to read FTF only. Thanks for your input......Dean

[mykeal]

deanodog -

Why? The USPS regulations were posted verbatim in post no.11 on this thread. Quote them to the gentleman at the post office with whom you spoke, or offer to take them to him in person. The law is the law. Some little tin dictator (clerk) at the local PO is not the law. And if he still will not acknowledge his own written rules, ask to speak with the postmaster, and have him attend the session.

[Macmac]

I don't go about to break the law either, and mailing a black powder replica is as legal as it gets.

No one even asks what's in the box. Just to make a smaller box, I pull the barrel, but I don't have to by law.

USPS is fedral in a funny way, but what is legal in NH is as legal in Ky, and even the left coast.

I hate to say this but you are making a problem over nothing. There is NO Law that prevents you from mailing a black powder replica..

The nitwhit you spoke with probably has no idea what a black powder gun is, in the first place, and all he heard was gun!

Put the gun in a box, tape it up, label it with to Whom and from whom, insure it, pay for tracking it and send it.

No one is going to ask what is in the box in the first place. If they do you can tell em none of yer bee's wax and or you can just say machined parts.

[jimrbto]

You can get the exact info needed at : //pe.usps.gov do a search for "firearms", when the results come up click on "DMM 601 Mailability"
read paragraph 11.1.1g, this defines what an antique is and includes all reproduction bp revolvers and pistols as long as they do not use cartridges.
Then read paragraph 11.2 = antiques may be mailed.

Another interesting read can be had at : www.thegunzone.com/ship-guns.html
Good luck
Jim

[Mustanger1]

My daughter sells BP guns on GunBroker and ships all the guns USPS. There is no restrictions on USPS BP gun shipping. However be aware of State and Federal laws regarding the sales and shipping that you don't make an illegal shipment whether using UPS, FedEx, USPS or any other means.

[Perk]

AirforceShooter – Quiet as it’s kept, I live in beautiful, sunny, SoCal; where ordering a really rare steak means that happy cows are stuffed with drugs and fork-lifted to your table. But I digress…

In this state, as in a few others it does not pay to be paranoid; you need the whole set. Still, the best one can do, to be properly accountable to the law, on that level, is to ensure that the sender is following the laws for their state, and the recipient is following the laws for their own respective state.

So, unless you have a high clearance access, or know someone who does – and you are willing to abuse that access – the best you’ll likely be able to do is request verification of the buyer’s age.

The federal government does not give a puppy’s behind, if you send BP arms through their sanctioned mail systems. At least, so long as they’re not loaded, meet the requirements for BP, and yaddacetra, yaddacetra. Mp510 and jimbrto have helped, with some particulars, there.

In a nutshell: On a state level, make sure that you can send the things. Do what you can to reasonably assert the buyer’s eligibility to receive them (verify age and make sure that their state allows for the receipt of your goods). On a federal level, make sure that your items are clean, empty and meet BP requirements. You’ve read what Snaggletooth, mykeal, Macmac and Ed Ames have suggested.

You’ve mentioned that you have given up on sending the items. Hey, with state and federal laws in constant flux, as they are, no one dare call you on making that decision, for yourself. Maintaining your level of comfort means that you are listing to your own intuition. These days, it pays to keep that type of hearing fine-tuned.

Failing that, spend or pass on, the extra costs and send the items through UPS, or FedEx, like bigbadgun, scrat, mp510 and Im283 suggested.

Like the man says: You… Make the Call. And, the best of good luck to you, sir.

[deanodog]

Lots of comments and opinions. Thanks to all who replied. Would any or all be comfortable with sending your proof of your age if you were buying a bp online. My thinking is I am an old man that does not have the resources to fight postal inspectors in court. I know there was laws quoted and I agree with them but the post office regulations has to be respected also. If it is a postal policy I am not prepared to fight city hall. So That is why I wimped out and gave up.....Regards Deano

[Macmac]

If I were a buyer i would have no problem scanning my drivers lic. I am 56 and get carded for beer in some stores. They card guys that look like St Pete, so I wouldn't have a problem.

Another thing you can do is look up Sportsman's Guide. They list states and any other address where BP guns can not be shipped, and I believe Cabela's does as well.

That way you would know if an address is at one of those areas, to not ship.

Basicly any place Cabela's and Sportmans Guide can ship you can ship to as well.

What I don't know is if a Buyer would get a noterized document stating age, and snail mail it in this day of instant, and or fax a copy.

Was your listing in the for sale area here? At this point I am curious as to what these BP guns are/were.

[deanodog]

Macmac
These guns were a pietta 1858 44 cal. A ruger old army 45 cal and a single shot cva 50 cal pistol with a 10 inch barrel. They told me that anything that you can fire must be mailed by a FFL. The local UPS depot told me that I would have to have a FFL and it would have to ship to a FFL. I think they are wrong but it is their turf. I might get away with don't show and don't tell but I do not like to bend anyone's rules. I will call the ups haz-mat toll free no. Monday and see if I can get any sense from them. This same UPS depot told me once that I could not ship ammo to an individual and I called this no. and they o k ed it.

[whosyrdaddy]

.

Another thing you can do is look up Sportsman's Guide. They list states and any other address where BP guns can not be shipped, and I believe Cabela's does as well.

That way you would know if an address is at one of those areas, to not ship.



Please do not use the Cabela's catalog for legal reference!
They list MI as having restrictions on shipping BP guns, when in fact such restrictions on BP long guns have never existed, and the restrictions on BP handguns were removed by public acts 99,100,&101 of 2004.

Furthermore, Cabela's was made aware of these inaccuracies and yet has ignored them for going on 4 years now!:banghead:

[Ed Ames]

One more try...

Those are not firearms per USPS regs and US law.

Put them in a box. Write the address on the outside of the box. Take the box to the post office. Go to the counter. Say, "I want to mail this box."

Pay the man (or woman).

All done.

If you want to go above and beyond, first find out whether the buyer can get into any trouble for receiving the items. A decent way of doing so is to see whether Cabela's will ship there. Cabela's may have an inaccuracy or two but it beats some of the others (sportsman's warehouse or maybe guide... I've forgotten now) that won't ship 100s of perfectly legal items to CA for no good reason anyone can explain.

On a personal note... a business (specifically one which is rather picky about dotted Is and crossed Xes) once mailed an antique cartridge pistol to my P.O. Box. Perfectly legal.

[whosyrdaddy]

A decent way of doing so is to see whether Cabela's will ship there. Cabela's may have an inaccuracy or two but it beats some of the others

Or you could just contact the Attorney Generals office of any given state and ask. Many State Police depts. also have websites that list FAQs and answers.:rolleyes:

[Perk]

Don’t feel uncomfortable with providing proof of age, myself. Rapidly heading towards four decades of having done that. Did so again, just last week, in fact. Should mention a word of caution; if you’re asked to send a photocopy of your driver’s license, make sure to blot out your license number – it’s a good anti-rascal measure.

Whosyrdaddy makes a point about Cabela’s catalog being, mebbe, a bit too careful where shipping restrictions are concerned. True, their inaccuracies tend to fall into the Better Safe than Sorry category. In a way, that might actually make ‘em a good resource.

Details can always be honed, with a call to the Attorney General. Just stay away from asking questions from the source. ‘Nother words, not sure it’s best to ask the Post Office about Post Office matters, where it really matters. They may lack the objectivity you’re really looking for.

Same goes for calling UPS. Those CB arms are not Fire-Arms. You can send ’em USPS. But, if you want to spend extra for the peace of mind, then go with UPS. However, placing a call to UPS may just result in removing whatever peace of mind you decided that paying extra was going to provide. Ask someone else, who is qualified to provide answers about UPS policies (See: Above), if you need the reassurance.

[Macmac]

deanodog , remington clone and ROA, with one cva single shot. Not a big deal.

I am sure mailing BP Guns clean and un-loaded isn't a problem to just about any address not listed in Sportsman Guide and Cabelas.

They do it every day, along with all sorts of other places like Kittery Trading post in Maine.

I post because I feel no guilt what so ever mailing BP guns and parts of Bp guns anywhere, other than maybe those addresses, and I hate to see you tear yourself up over this.

I'ld call it non-sence, but then this isn't to you because you fear making an error.

I just did mail a colt 51 clone back to it's owner who is also posting here. I used US postal service and he used UPS (brown trucks). The BP gun was here for some repairs.

I worked for a FFL at a gun store and all modern guns came by brown trucks UPS. All modern guns were shipped brown trucks, but many BP Guns were just postal.

I live in Tamworth NH which is woodsy, and NH is a better than average state for guns.

Where the so- called authorites go wrong with you is they just hear gun.. They have no idea what black powder gun even means...

Long ago in Mass I was pulled over upon entering a public way from where I had been parked, having a snack. I bought a cheese burger with accouterments, was given 4 pails of water for my horse and had no problems at all eatting in my truck, minding my own bee's wax.

I was wearing clothing something like you would see in jerimhia johnson, and had been driving up out of southern Pa with a trailer and the horse, so not very fast.

That cop was all over me in his excitement for a bust. I hadn't excedded 3 mph even when he nabbed me. I handed over the registrations for both the trailer and the truck and my valid lic. A NH lic.

I had no modern guns what so ever, but the officer fixated on a flintlock pistol, to the point, that had I been a bad guy i could have easily shot him with his own side arm.

I allowed the search since he was so eager. I simply didn't have anything illegal, although he thought I did. The closest thing I had to being illegla was a very large bowie, but he didn't care one whit about that, and kept trying to some how figure how to load a flintlock from the breech.

Well I made that gun from all shop scrap. The pattern is circa 1740-1745, as i took ideas from 6 guns during this time and used these ideas to build my very own gun.

There is no way to load it from the breech I assure you.

After 45 minutes time I became bored and wanted my horse home or out of the trailer, so I took the gun back and told him to call the SPCA.

he was nice enough, and so was I but with all the fiddling he did I just came to my end.

My crime was being in Buck Skins.. somewhere in the converstaions he mentioned I was suspisious looking. LOL

Yeah maybe, if mountain men robbed mom and pop snack bars I was.

This is all OT I know, except that the guys you talk to have no clue what you are telling them, and I like my tales...

[deanodog]

Macmac
I like your tales too. Thanks for the info and for taking the time to make such a lenghty reply.

[Macmac]

I am like a standard bred horse. If there is a way to find trouble i do it.. Murphy rides in my hip pocket too, but US postal and BP guns is fine..

I had forgotten city dwellers in red commie states can't have a dull butter knife, but other than that, shipping isn't a problem.

I don't know all the states you can't ship to but those catalogs do.

Last friday I was driving for hire, but ended up at kittery trading post with time to kill.

I discovered that now 'we' can't buy a modern gun with out a real ID which includes a street address. I know on the forms it asks for such, but around here a P. O Box is what is on my lic. I don't know if this idea applies to BP guns or not.

My lic is good to 09, but i wonder what the fee will be to get this info added..

"They" always have some way to come up with a new fee huh?

[DPris]

Deano,
As others have said, the PO supervisor you spoke to was dead wrong.
Their own regs define & permit the perfectly legal mailing of a BP gun without any FFL being involved at either end.
My first experience doing it was a .58 Zouave I ordered by US mail, paid for by US mail, and received by US mail, in a foreign country! That was 1975.
In more recent years I've received BP revolvers & mailed BP revolvers, along with a couple rifles, and did have to educate two PO counter clerks when they panicked. But- once they reviewed their regs IN PRINT & ON FILE SOMEPLACE IN THE BUILDING, they accepted the boxes for mailing.
I semi-regularly mail cartridge-firing long guns back to their makers, and I have no FFL.

I tell each clerk each time exactly what's in the boxes, and generally have no problems. I do this at both a small rural PO & a large PO in Salt Lake City. It's part of my job & I've been doing it for quite a while.

The key is whether the gun takes "fixed ammunition" (cartridges) or not. If not, it IS mailable.

It's up to you how much energy you want to put into it in future, but if you get that erroneous response again, take it all the way up to somebody who can read, and it that means the Post Master, then go for it.

Denis

[4v50 Gary]

I shipped two blackpowder guns home via USPS a few years back. I bought insurance on them too and stated they were muzzle loading guns. The point is that black powder muzzle loading guns are not federally regulated and may be shipped legally via USPS.

[zxcvbob]

One thing to watch out for: Don't mail a BP percussion revolver and a cartridge conversion cylinder for it in the same package. :rolleyes:

[GENTLEMAN OF THE CHARCOAL]

////

[Malamute]

I just went through this. At the post office they could find the regulations, and exemptions, in their book, but couldn't figure out what it meant.:banghead: One of the Post Office employees kept on the "it's a firearm, you can't mail a firearm unless you're an FFL", and I kept politely replying that it is NOT a firearm by federal law and is exempt from the same shipping regulations. He couldnt seem to comprehend that. They gave me a card with various numbers to call to find out what official policy, 2 of the 3 numbers were disconnected. I fianlly got a lady that found the same regs in the book, but she didnt know what they meant either. I ran out of time, and hung up and went to UPS.

At UPS the girl at first started to say that since it was a handgun, it had to go air, then she recognised the "muzzle loader" and "exempt" words after they had been mentioned several times, and said, "Oh, you can send that by ground". DON'T let UPS try to make you send it by air, it isn't required. It isn't even a law, it's their own rule, aparently because their employees were stealing guns, but it doesnt apply to replicas or antiques which include black powder guns.

All this was in Wyoming, where it doesnt raise an eyebrow to see someone walk down the street with a pistol on their belt.

[zxcvbob]

Post Office employees kept on the "it's a firearm, you can't mail a firearm unless you're an FFL", and I kept politely replying that it is NOT a firearm by federal law and is exempt from the same shipping regulations. He couldnt seem to comprehend that. They gave me a card with various numbers to call to find out what official policy, 2 of the 3 numbers were disconnected. I fianlly got a lady that found the same regs in the book, but she didnt know what they meant either.

That's why you don't tell them what's in the box. It's none of their business. (if it was a non-exempt gun ,or something hazardous, then it would be their business.