Guns are an investment, right?


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ZombiesAhead
January 22, 2008, 09:41 PM
Hello all,
I'm not wealthy by any stretch of the imagination but I have some money in mutual funds, an IRA, and then a savings account that is larger than it should be - I need to either invest it or treat myself. I'm considering picking up a number of guns - mainly those that are in danger of being grandfathered into new bans - an FAL, an AR-15, high-cap mags for my pistol...I have a good safe to protect them.

While some people might spend their extra money on vacations, can I justify my gun collecting hobby by the fact that my guns will lose very little value in most cases and quite possibly appreciate as legislation changes?

Does anyone else rationalize purchases like this? Might it actually make sense? If something terrible happened and I needed to liquidate, I feel like I could get 80% of the value of most of my collection and chalk the lost 20% up to the fun I had with them - and this isn't even considering the possible rise in value pending new legislation.

Any thoughts?

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TexasRifleman
January 22, 2008, 09:46 PM
I'd have to disagree. There are very few guns out there that have appreciated in value in any way close to what you'd have grown if the same amount of cash had been put in a reasonable investment vehicle.

Short of full auto weapons I can't think of any at all frankly. Even during the last AWB "pre ban" stuff wasn't selling at that much of a premium.

You yourself said that you think you could get 80 percent of what you paid.

That's not a very good investment, that's a 20 percent loss.

So buy guns, shoot them, enjoy the hobby, but don't confuse it with investing.

tydephan
January 22, 2008, 09:48 PM
I remember a very spirited discussion about this over on TFL awhile back. Lemme go see if I can dig it up.

ETA: Whew...need to exercise my google-fu. Took me a few minutes to find what I was looking for:

Buying Guns...for Investment (http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=237977&highlight=gun+investment).

Javelin
January 22, 2008, 09:48 PM
Get a really really good deal through an FFL dealer (like 20% off MSRP) and buy up your X amount of principle investment in ARs with 16" barrels and telescoping stocks with 2 mags each>>>> RRA had a good deal going not too long ago and other makers will too soon enough. AKs would work as well for all practical purposes.

In 2 years they will probably be the best investment you ever did in your life.

:)

takhtakaal
January 22, 2008, 09:51 PM
It's only an investment if this crap-shoot environment in which we lives does something predictable and makes it so that they become scarce or somewhat to completely unavailable -- and you're allowed to keep them.

In the event of zero transfers, or outright confiscation, where's the retained value, let alone appreciation?

M2 Carbine
January 22, 2008, 09:52 PM
Guns are an investment, right?

Well I paid $17 for this NIB GI 1911A1.
I've had 45 years use of it and I could probably still get my $17 out of it.:D
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/Bell406_206B/1911A1.jpg

Paid $65 for this NIB S&W Model 10.
Have had 48 years use of it and I'm pretty sure I could sell it for a little over $65.;)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/Bell406_206B/Mod10targetclose.jpg

ZombiesAhead
January 22, 2008, 09:52 PM
I hear you TR - I guess "investment" was the wrong word. I guess I'm more thinking about the difference between putting money into a gun collection versus going on vacation, buying a car that will rapidly depreciate, going out to the bar every night, etc.

They are a durable good though - that in a time a of fiscal emergency - could be easily turned back into cash (in a way that "experience" type hobbies simply will never be recouped in cash)

Does anyone see it like that? Even if you don't gain any money when you resell a gun collection, they sure do hold a good amount of their value compared to the crap some people treat themselves to when they have extra cash lying around...

TexasRifleman
January 22, 2008, 09:54 PM
Well I paid $17 for this NIB GI 1911A1.
I've had 45 years use of it and I could probably still get my $17 out of it.

So run some numbers on stocks or bonds if you'd have taken that same 17 dollars and invested it in more traditional vehicles.

You could buy a LOT of 1911's :)

I bought a couple of SWD Lightning Links in 1985 for $200. I sold one in 2004 for $11,000. Sounds good right?

If I'd bought Wal Mart stock or Southwest Airlines stock for $200 I could buy more than one cheesy Lightning Link :)

Winchester 73
January 22, 2008, 09:55 PM
Its fun to think about.And I've done it.Probably have a collection
worth 30-40k.
But you are almost certainly going to do better buying the right mutual funds or stocks.
Since 1926 the stock market has out performed every other type of investment except to a certain extent quality real estate.
But there is no feeling like getting your hands on another great firearm.
To the extent that it won't interfere with your more serious long range investment plans,I'd say go for it.
And get a C&R.Thats a big advantage.Go here for info:

http://www.surplusrifle.com

M2 Carbine
January 22, 2008, 09:58 PM
In the event of zero transfers, or outright confiscation, where's the retained value, let alone appreciation?

Then guns will become very valuable.

3pairs12
January 22, 2008, 10:02 PM
I made the mistake of saying look honey guns are an investment before actually this post to opening to read it. The first thing she noticed was teaxsrifleman said that he would have to disagree. Well I am pretty sure the value of guns isn't on the same roller coaster ride as my 401k. At least thats what I'll tell her.

M2 Carbine
January 22, 2008, 10:02 PM
So run some numbers on stocks or bonds if you'd have taken that same 17 dollars and invested it in more traditional vehicles.

You could buy a LOT of 1911's

But try as I might I've never been able to hit a target with a stock or bond.:D

ravencon
January 22, 2008, 10:10 PM
Generally, guns shouldn't be approached as an investment.

Most people neglect the time value of money when they compare their purchase price to the present value. For example, M2 Carbine bought his NIB Model 10 48 years ago for $65. Well, according to the official consumer price index data $65 1959 dollars is $461 in 2007 dollars. M2 Carbine would be unlikely to be able to sell that Model 10 for $461. As a financial investment it wasn't a good performer. But he has had the use and enjoyment of a fine gun for those many years. To me that sounds like a great purchase decision.

A consumer price index calculator can be found here:
http://minneapolisfed.org/Research/data/us/calc/index.cfm

ZombiesAhead
January 22, 2008, 10:15 PM
But try as I might I've never been able to hit a target with a stock or bond.

EXACTLY! My point was not that I liquidate my mutual funds and IRA's on the premise that guns will beat the market - but mutual funds aren't much fun to play with, and if I can retain 80% of the purchase price while having a great time shooting my "investment" I'd consider that lost 20% well spent. :)

A gun collection is a hobby that can be redeemed for cash in an emergency - unlike decorating your house, taking a vacation, stocking/drinking a wine cellar, or buying commemorative spoons, etc...

Seminole
January 22, 2008, 10:17 PM
Other than one or two guns that you might justify as defensive weapons, guns really fall more into the category of entertainment or a hobby. Investment for the purpose of wealth accumulation is something else. If you're spending money on guns that you should be investing for retirement, education, or wealth building, I would urge you not to do so. On the other hand, if you are spending money on guns that you would otherwise be spending on a Caribbean cruise, a trip to Europe, lying on the beach for a couple of weeks, going to the movies on a frequent basis, buying a new car every two years, or other such things, then go ahead--buy away and enjoy building your collection.

You mention you have some mutual funds, an IRA, and a savings account, but do you have a long-term financial plan? Do you have any debts? If so, why?! Do you invest in a systematic way? Do you own a home? Do you create a budget for yourself every month and stick to it? If your financial life is in good order, be sure that your monthly budget includes some "blow" money that you can spend some or all of on guns. There's nothing wrong with buying guns when you can afford it, but don't fall into the trap of thinking that gun expenditures are actually a financial investment. As someone else pointed out, the magic of compound interest, combined with the fact that the stock market has always made money over any ten-year period, makes that your best investment. If you are buying guns instead of investing wisely, you are cheating yourself out of hundreds of thousands of dollars over a long period of time.

I love guns, but my retirement and my children's financial future is more important than whether I buy myself another rifle.

oldgold
January 22, 2008, 10:43 PM
Only if you got a crystal ball. 40 years ago I could have bought cased drillings for $100-150 each. One I passed up an bought a Hi-Power instead. Hi-power is worth maybe $600 , drilling I passed that day up just sold for $23,000.

Dad took me to Western Auto to buy my first hunting gun. I passed on a 410 pump and took a bolt action 12ga instead. Neighbor kid bought the 410. It was a Winchester model 42 skeet.

Ain't hindsight grand !

BobbyQuickdraw
January 23, 2008, 12:49 AM
A gun with normal use retains an average of 73% of its value.

A car with normal use in the same period of time retains only 25%.

So think of it like that and buy some guns!

(Sample time is 12 years)

Hunter0924
January 23, 2008, 01:11 AM
There are many makes of firearms that do go up in value. I have bought a few Colt Gold Cup National Matches that have gone up about 25% a year as well as a few other Colts.
Colt 1911s (and I am speaking of true 1911s not the generic term) from WW1 do pretty well as do 1911A1s.
The last gun show I saw a few collector grade Pre Series 70 Colt Government Models that were $1600+.
It depends on what you go for but there are firearms that will appreciate and you will make money on them, maybe not as much as stocks and bonds.
What about the Singer 1911 that auctioned off for 80000+ a few months ago.
Older SAAs and Winchesters do pretty good. Watch the high end auction sights as well as gunbroker.
Yes firearms can be good investments if you are selective in what you invest in (but isn't that the general rule?).

Guitargod1985
January 23, 2008, 01:48 AM
Guns are an investment, right?
Generally speaking, no. Not for a while.

Unless you can call catching an earfull from your wife a capital gain.

huff.jeremy
January 23, 2008, 01:59 AM
Depends on what you want out of your investments.

In a normal year, I purchase almost nothing which I could sell anywhere near its purchase price. Look around yard sales... almost anything in a house is worth very little once out of it's wrapper. But guns... they hold a decent value.

Yes, stocks, bonds, and mutual funds provide a greater return and are probably your best bet for a good retirement, but if you are choosing between a new couch or a new gun, the gun wins. :D

BUT, I guess a rational person would forgo the couch and the gun and would invest in the market in hopes of retirement.... but what is going to put food on the table when the market crashes again. ;)

Guitargod1985
January 23, 2008, 02:08 AM
but what is going to put food on the table when the market crashes again?

Oooo ooo I know! The couch!

No, seriously... isn't that what the welfare office is for? J/k

no_problem
January 23, 2008, 02:19 AM
"" Guns are an investment, right?
Hello all,
I'm not wealthy by any stretch of the imagination but I have some money in mutual funds, an IRA, and then a savings account that is larger than it should be - I need to either invest it or treat myself. I'm considering picking up a number of guns - mainly those that are in danger of being grandfathered into new bans - an FAL, an AR-15, high-cap mags for my pistol...I have a good safe to protect them.

While some people might spend their extra money on vacations, can I justify my gun collecting hobby by the fact that my guns will lose very little value in most cases and quite possibly appreciate as legislation changes?

Does anyone else rationalize purchases like this? Might it actually make sense? If something terrible happened and I needed to liquidate, I feel like I could get 80% of the value of most of my collection and chalk the lost 20% up to the fun I had with them - and this isn't even considering the possible rise in value pending new legislation.

Any thoughts?""

No, If you want to invest, invest. Have a clear strategy in mind and buy the investment that is right for you. Bonds are a risk free way to protect the value of your dollar from the dangers of inflation and interest rate fluctuation, mutual funds, ETF's, stocks are good vehicles if you can calculate their expected rates of return and match them to your needs and expectations.

Gun legislation s a gunstore's best friend. That said, you can have your fun with guns and leave it there. In Gun collecting, the reward is in itself.

asknight
January 23, 2008, 03:18 AM
no_problem, there is a little quote button in the top of the text box you type your message in. It increases the force of your reply or point ten-fold. Try it, you'll like it. :neener:

45Broomhandle
January 23, 2008, 03:18 AM
I'm using guns as an investment too. BUT, I've always loved guns, and it's a perfect excuse for collecting around me the objects of my affection.

When I decided to use guns as an investment my only worry was how to transfer my knowledge of them to my wife (and/or other heirs) in the event something happened to me. Here's what I came up with and I highly recommend it to anyone with ANY gun collection with ANY kind of value.

Remember some time ago it was suggested that we all take photos of our valuables, such as TVs, Cameras, tools, etc., and even to scratch our initials or SS number into them in case they were stolen? Well my system is a take-off on that.

With this system we not only assist our heirs, but we also have great records for our home owners insurance company in the event of a theft.

What information do you need to pass on regarding your collection to someone who has NO KNOWLEDGE of guns?

1) WHICH gun are you telling me about? ANSWER: Look at the several photos which includes detailed pics of identifying markings, serial numbers, etc..

2) Where did you get it, when, and HOW MUCH DID IT COST? ANSWER: That too is detailed in text just above the photos.

3) What kind of condition is it in? ANSWER: It's condition, and any additional accessories - or whatever - I've purchased for it, are also detailed here.

4) What's its estimated current value? ANSWER: My guesstimate is here, and this info should be updated as markets change.

5) Where is my BEST prospect to sell it at top value? ANSWER: Here I've listed the name, address, phone number, website, email address, whatever, of all prospects I can think of. If there is a single collector who you believe will pay TOP dollar for your gun, list them here too.

ALL OF THIS INFO I print out, and slide it inside a plastic page protector, along with all invoices, money order receipts, FFL copies, whatever, then place it inside a three-ring binder.

I keep FOUR binders for my records: handguns; long guns; accessories; and sold. Since I also collect some pretty valuable boxes of ammo, I have a separate FIFTH binder for those.

The Sold binder is mainly for me. Also, the ATF requires C&R holders to keep a "bound book" with records. When I upgrade one of my collectibles, and sell off the lesser gun, I not only record it in the ATF "bound book," but I take that gun's page out of its binder and put it in the Sold binder.

The main binders are kept in a bank safety deposit box since I have no fireproof safe at home. As I add or make changes in the collection it's no big deal to stop by the bank and make necessary changes or additions.

Below is a photo of one of my binders to give you an idea of what they look like. Best regards ~ ~ ~ 45 Broomhandle

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v635/mauser/GUNINVENTORYSHEETSSIZEDetc.jpg

huff.jeremy
January 23, 2008, 03:34 AM
Broomhandle:

That is an amazingly precise system you have developed. Obsessive Compulsive Disorder a little? :neener:

No, seriously I wish I could be that precise in my documentation. I am lucky if I comply with our state laws requiring records of private gun sales for the last 10 year. Kudos.

Perhaps someday when my gun collection's value exceeds my months income I will be provoked into being more careful.

45Broomhandle
January 23, 2008, 03:42 AM
Hi huff. Nope! No compulsion here, unless you count trying to keep a wife of 50 years happy. She's happy with my system of keeping her (and/or kid heirs) informed. Make sense???? Am right now on Messenger with my eldest daughter up in Canada. Later....

Best regards from the Right Coast ~ ~ ~ 45Broomhandle

The91Bravo
January 23, 2008, 03:44 AM
M2 Carbine,

I'll give you $34 US DOLLARS for that 1911.. Thats a 200% increase.....

Do we have a deal??

:D

huff.jeremy
January 23, 2008, 04:09 AM
Broomhandle.... 50 years of marriage? wow. Perhaps your system has value in more than just in the realm of documentation. ;)

Congratualtions and kudos again. I am sure your heirs will appreciate your diligence... although any prospective gun buyers may rue the day they "tried" to decieve your heirs/heiress' into selling them under their true value.

Dysfunctional Individual
January 23, 2008, 06:16 AM
Unlike food and ammo, guns don't even seem to have kept up with inflation over the last few years. A Glock 19 cost about $480 in 2000 and costs the same today. On the other hand, an FN Five-seveN IOM went for around $800 in 2003, but goes for $1100+ today, mainly because it's been discontinued. There will be occasional cases like this, but they're hard to predict.

All bets are off if there's a regime change in the government. Unfortunately, we need seriously to start contemplating a Hillary Clinton presidency. In such a scenario, a grandfather clause will be your friend, but you also have to consider sale bans and even outright confiscation.

Vermont
January 23, 2008, 07:17 AM
I like to think of them as a hedge fund.

When things are at their worst, guns will be most valuable. When the supermarket is no longer there, or people can no longer afford to buy meat, everyone will want guns and ammo.

On the other hand, if my other investments work out, I can still use the guns for fun.

glennfish
January 23, 2008, 07:25 AM
IF you want investment value, stock up on about 100k rounds of high demand ammo, say 9mm or .223 My forecast is you can double your money in less than 3 years.

Hokkmike
January 23, 2008, 07:40 AM
I think the key is l-o-n-g term investment. Used, mine are almost up to what they cost new, And that was 10 years + ago.

22-rimfire
January 23, 2008, 08:08 AM
If you have a lot of disposable cash, I don't think purchasing select guns is a bad way to go. From my experience, about the best return you will get is that they hold their value relative to inflation.

With the big downturn in the stock market in the last week, it makes one wonder if stocks are just another form of gambling. Big losses this week. Most of which I can't afford. During the last big market downturn, it took me 5 years to get back to where I was. How many "5-years" do you have? This one really has hurt big time.

I do keep some guns as investment tools. They are there more because I like them. Yes, most have appreciated. But few have beat even a normal savings account in returns.

Liquidation? Some thoughts.... You can liquidate guns very slowly and do okay. That usually means you really don't need the money. If you try to sell off 10 or 15, I would expect about a 30% average hit (not 20%) and that is doing it carefully through the auctions. You'll take a much larger hit if you sell to a FFL dealer to liquidate. Guns can be sold fairly quickly (weeks), but it sure isn't like selling a stock or writing a check from an existing account.

Heirs are not the way to go. You spend a lifetime accumulating firearms that you attribute a lot of value to. You die and your heirs only see money. That really takes the fun out of it. It's often the same with land. If you share your hobby with family members, the first thing the young ones ask is "What's it worth?" It takes years to carefully groom heirs to appreciate firearms for the most part and then it's a toss up. So, my belief is to sell off most of your firearms when you are in your mid-60's. (Most can reasonably expect to live into their 60's.) At least you often know where they are going and feel some satisfaction that another collector will treat them and appreciate them the way you do. The cycle begins anew.

lee n. field
January 23, 2008, 08:25 AM
need to either invest it or treat myself. I'm considering picking up a number of guns - mainly those that are in danger of being grandfathered into new bans - an FAL, an AR-15, high-cap mags for my pistol...I have a good safe to protect them.


They're only investments if you can get money back out of them. If they're banned, how're you planning on selling them?

jackstinson
January 23, 2008, 08:57 AM
An "investment" would have been putting all my cash into Microsoft or eBay when they were a few bucks per share!
All of my guns are just fun purchases for me...toys. Just the same as; going on vacation, going to bars, buying more guitars, my jeep, and "all the other crap that people spend their extra cash on".
Personally, I get more "return on investment" by taking my wife on a nice vacation, than I would from any gun. I know it's sacrilege, but I'd rather spend $3k on my wife & family than a NightHawk.
Jack

gunmn74
January 23, 2008, 09:16 PM
A friend of mine (who has money and an FFL) invested in 60 ARs
before the ban and sold them all in one day at a gun show for a
40 percent return on his short investment.

arflattop
January 24, 2008, 12:44 AM
As an investment to hang your hat on in the future, firearms wouldn't be the vehicle of choice. If you have your IRA, 401K in place and a plan to pay off the house and car, then by all means, invest in firearms. I put all of my non retirement investment cash into my farm. It will keep or increase in value and at the same time I can enjoy it's ownership. I see my firearm collection in the same light. BTW, eight years ago I had to liquidate a large collection via auction (ex-Mrs. arflattop) and recouped full purchase price. I think the key is to purchase quality firearms (I'm talking Ruger, S&W, Sig, etc., not multi-$$ exotic shotguns) that us "normal" middle income people can buy. Free advice!!

U.S.SFC_RET
January 24, 2008, 06:23 AM
Guns may not be in the tops for investment catagory but a large percentage of them sure don't lose their value. Sure works to get past the wife.

madcratebuilder
January 24, 2008, 08:58 AM
If you bought the right guns forty years ago, that was an investment. I don't think any of the newer (90up) well increase like the older p&r smiths, 3 screw rugers and GI 1911's.

14427H
January 24, 2008, 09:29 AM
If you want to invest, keep it as it was made. That "was NIB" Remington Rand is nice, if it was still new in the box I'd say it would be worth $2500 or more.

There is that trade off...I am sure that Remington Rand has given $2500 in service as it is still can but top end investment guns might be postage stamps for all you would use them.

Feanaro
January 24, 2008, 09:44 AM
There are better investments, even among hobby goods. In 1959, the Red Book price for an 1875 gold dollar was $475 for a proof coin. That's $3200 in 2006 dollars. Today, it's worth $11,000 in PF-60 and a whoppin' $48,000 in PF-66.

RPCVYemen
January 24, 2008, 09:54 AM
BTW, eight years ago I had to liquidate a large collection via auction (ex-Mrs. arflattop) and recouped full purchase price.

Depending on how long you owned them, it sounds like you lost money - maybe that's your point. But if I buy a weapon, and sell it 5 years later for the purchase price, I haven't broken even - I have lost money. Assuming a 4% inflation rate, I need to sell the weapon for 20% more than I bought it to break even.

That's not even considering storage costs, and the opportunity cost of missing out in other investments. For example, if an index fund returned 6% per year, in five years,an investment in an index fund (with no storage cost) would have increased by 33%.

So if all I did was break even - sell the weapons for 20% more than I bought them for after 5 years - I would still be down 13% from what I would have gotten from an index fund.

Don't forget to factor inflation into an investment!

Mike

Quigley
January 24, 2008, 10:04 AM
Be careful! Call your habit what you want but remember if your not willing to sell it, it probably wasn't an investment.

Collecting
The gathering of things you like, it might be a brand, might be a type (shotgun/rifle), might be you just like to use a broad variety of them. The collector knows there is value in his or her collection but is not that concerned with the day to day value. A collector takes enjoyment in using the pieces they have aquired and probably would be willing to scratch a piece in exchange for using it in the field.

Investing
To invest in a firearm requires strong disipline, the true investor is one who educates themselves, knows what pieces are in demand and what they are worth not just today but what they were worth yesterday and speculates that they will continue the trends they have historically taken. A true investor takes possession of a piece from another and cares for that piece until a new investor is willing to pay more than they did to take over the care of that item.

Soybomb
January 24, 2008, 11:48 AM
can I justify my gun collecting hobby by the fact that my guns will lose very little value in most cases
If this is your criteria for something to be an investment, I would urge you to invest with the first bank of Soybomb. I'll hold your money and when you say I'll give you every penny back that you originally deposited :D

And now for my standard reply to this common question:
Just to give you something to think about if you tuck $1000 in an index fund today that averages a 10% annual return (which is relatively easy) you'll have something like $4400 in 15 years. I wouldn't gamble on a gun value increase of $3400 in those 15 years.

Guns are fun toys and they don't really depreciateas much as cars or electronics, but for the most part they are not investments. If you're sacrificing contributions to your retirement fund to buy garands, you've got problems.

asknight
January 24, 2008, 11:51 AM
At todays inflation rates, I'm not sure a 10% annual return would even keep up with inflation. :uhoh:


I'm gonna stick with precious metals.

strat81
January 24, 2008, 12:13 PM
The only benefit of guns as an "investment" is that they are physical, tangible property. Toasters are too.

In the event of a major economic meltdown where inflation is rampant, the dollar is worthless, and banks are closing left and right, money will have no value. "Stuff" will. Some folks hoard gold for this reason.

Assuming that a Great Depression disaster will not happen, and only minor recessions will occur, I'd consider Real Estate the best investment. They aren't making any more of it. Do your research and *invest*. Do not speculate! (See the real estate bubble that just popped as an example.)

Guns are better than other hobbies as far as resale value. Compare it to motorcycles, muscle cars, cameras, electronics and other "grown up" toys, and guns aren't a complete depreciation nightmare.

And, in the event of some type of disaster (economic or natural), a gun may certainly become more valuable since the necessity for one may increase.

If it was my money, I'd look into a quality rental property. If that was out of my range, I'd look at mutual funds - especially those with money in Latin America, Asia/Pacific, and developing countries. But, I'm in my mid-20s, so I can withstand some of the market bumps better than someone in their 50s.

Do NOT go out and buy 20 AR-15s as an investment. If you want 20 for fun, then by all means buy them. If you are part of the tin-foil hat brigade, gold coins might satisfy your paranoia. You should be able to find Krugerrands around.

Invest in your own education and training. Invest in your kids' education.

cornman
January 24, 2008, 12:23 PM
They could be, but I will tell you what is not at this time in history. Most mutual funds and most stocks are not. Just another product sold by salesman who also sell a bogus expertise. 99% of financial advisors do nothing but repeat a mantra that they have been told over and over again. Unless you have a financial advisor that has told you to go to a cash position he/she does not know his/her business.

MilsurpShooter
January 24, 2008, 12:30 PM
1884 Springfield Trapdoor, family heirloom, odd configuration, Buffington Rear site, probably worth a bit
Un-issued Yugo M48a, picked it up for $110
1936 Mosin 91/30 $65
K-31 in Walnut $120

While I don't necessarily see them as an investment, I try to keep in mind that I'll make money back if I turned around and sold them

huntsman
January 24, 2008, 12:30 PM
Seminole wrote:
Other than one or two guns that you might justify as defensive weapons, guns really fall more into the category of entertainment or a hobby. Investment for the purpose of wealth accumulation is something else. If you're spending money on guns that you should be investing for retirement, education, or wealth building, I would urge you not to do so. On the other hand, if you are spending money on guns that you would otherwise be spending on a Caribbean cruise, a trip to Europe, lying on the beach for a couple of weeks, going to the movies on a frequent basis, buying a new car every two years, or other such things, then go ahead--buy away and enjoy building your collection.

You mention you have some mutual funds, an IRA, and a savings account, but do you have a long-term financial plan? Do you have any debts? If so, why?! Do you invest in a systematic way? Do you own a home? Do you create a budget for yourself every month and stick to it? If your financial life is in good order, be sure that your monthly budget includes some "blow" money that you can spend some or all of on guns. There's nothing wrong with buying guns when you can afford it, but don't fall into the trap of thinking that gun expenditures are actually a financial investment. As someone else pointed out, the magic of compound interest, combined with the fact that the stock market has always made money over any ten-year period, makes that your best investment. If you are buying guns instead of investing wisely, you are cheating yourself out of hundreds of thousands of dollars over a long period of time.

I love guns, but my retirement and my children's financial future is more important than whether I buy myself another rifle.

This probably isn't the answer you wanted but its best advice you can get for free.

All I'll add is in this time of trouble Buy some silver coins maybe some freeze dried food and store some water. If your not be prepared to take care of yourself and family take care of that first.

Mike OTDP
January 24, 2008, 01:26 PM
Hmm....

You CAN invest in firearms, IF you know what you are doing and have a long timeframe in mind. That, and don't intend to shoot them. Keep your "shooters" and "sellers" separate.

I would not consider putting $$ into anything made after after 1945 as an investment. Too recent. Buy top-quality prewar firearms. Antiques are better yet.

MILSURP? Hard to judge. Frankly, I'd suggest snapping up a Cz-82 or two, as I think they will be like East German Makarovs, which doubled in price once the supply dried up. Don't even come near a Moisin-Nagant as an investment.

That being said, you are probably better off shoveling the money into index funds. They are more liquid, and require little to no expertise on the part of the investor.

As to ARs and AKs? Buy one or two for yourself if you want one, but don't think of them as an investment.

scrat
January 24, 2008, 01:57 PM
broomhandle that is a very good system you have there. nice work.

10X
January 24, 2008, 02:15 PM
Tell me what else you can buy and use and it will go up in value other than a house or a good gun?

I still believe that some guns are good investments. USGI 1911 and 1911a1s, Colt hand guns, Garands, quality Winchesters.

That is just like stocks. There are a lot of stocks, not all of the appreciate.

The Annoyed Man
January 24, 2008, 05:04 PM
I would say, "Yes, guns are an investment." But they are not, for the most part, a good investment in financial terms. What they are is an investment in memories, good times with family, good hunts, good recreation, good history, and good personal security. But a financial investment? I would say, "no, they are not." I have purchased each firearm I own because it pleases me to own it, not because I ever thought it would increase in value. A couple of my guns have actually doubled in value, but most haven't, or won't. On balance, I'll probably do a little bit worse than break even, for a while anyway. But unless all future new gun sales are outlawed, my collection is not likely to be viewed as a money maker, even if I was inclined to part with it.

Daemon688
January 24, 2008, 05:16 PM
Guns are not an investment in any financial sense for me. I have no intention of selling anything I own, nor do I hope to make a profit off of them in the future. The vast majority of my guns are for fun and the select few are for personal protection.

The Deer Hunter
January 24, 2008, 05:22 PM
My dad always told me never to spend my money on something that drops in value.

:)

gym
January 24, 2008, 05:24 PM
Buy collectible guns, and let the just sit for 10-20 years. Pietro Baretta. or Parker shotguns, not necessarilly what you like, it's like collecting art, you have to do some reading, but yes certain types of guns will increase in value. I have a 22 browning rifle "made in Belgium", that was left to me by an uncle,that came in 4 grades, you have to know what to buy, it's not going to necessarily be the things that you like, German Lugers, stuff like that

22-rimfire
January 24, 2008, 07:38 PM
If you want to buy guns hoping they go up in value, I would stick to the classics in handguns (Colt and Smith). They store easy. I have guns that have gone up in value by a factor of 10, in the last 5 years. But it was pure luck and I didn't buy them speculating on a return. So, I'm not selling; hence they really aren't investment pieces. I also own guns that are more than 5-years old with me that aren't worth much more than the day I bought them.

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