Man shoots co-worker while rescuing him from crocodile


PDA






35Rem
January 23, 2008, 09:50 AM
CNN) -- A man who rescued a co-worker from the jaws of a crocodile in northern Australia also accidentally shot him in the process, police said.


A mature saltwater crocodile in the the murky waters of the Adelaide River, near Darwin in the Northern Territory.

The two men were collecting crocodile eggs by a river bank in Australia's Northern Territory Tuesday when a crocodile grabbed Jason Grant by the lower right arm, a spokeswoman for the area police told CNN.

The second man, Zac Fitzgerald, shot the crocodile, causing it to let go of Grant's arm. But a second shot that Fitzgerald fired struck Grant in the upper right arm, said Northern Territory police spokeswoman Katie Fowden.

Grant, who is in his late 20s, was flown to a hospital for treatment of both the bullet and the crocodile wounds. His injuries were not life-threatening, Fowden said.

The two men are workers at a crocodile farm in Darwin, the capital city of the Northern Territory. They were collecting the eggs legally, police said.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/01/23/australia.crocodile/index.html

Is it just me, or is it funny that these guys work in a city called "Darwin"?

If you enjoyed reading about "Man shoots co-worker while rescuing him from crocodile" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
takhtakaal
January 23, 2008, 09:56 AM
I'd just like to know what sort of caliber is enough for crocodiles but not man?

Chipperman
January 23, 2008, 10:02 AM
I wonder if the Croc is going to survive.

romma
January 23, 2008, 10:09 AM
The two men are workers at a crocodile farm in Darwin, the capital city of the Northern Territory.

Darwin! You can't make this stuff up!

ozwyn
January 23, 2008, 10:42 AM
Somehow I doubt the coworker is unhappy about it.

I mean, if the shot saved his life, and after going through the crock went through his arm, that's a more than fair trade.

silverlance
January 23, 2008, 11:23 AM
I'm laughing, but I really shouldn't. Okay, I stopped.
The shot wasn't a go-through. His first shot was good, but the SECOND one hit the poor guy's other arm. so now he has one arm bitten, and the other arm shot.

I hope this guy gets well. On a pro RKBA note, this guy would most DEFINITELY be croc lunch if his buddy hadn't been carrying a gun. I've seen videos and heard stories... those things are monsters.

Wheeler44
January 23, 2008, 12:53 PM
The shot wasn't a go-through. His first shot was good, but the SECOND one hit the poor guy's other arm.
Nope, same arm, and that's gonna leave a mark.

Claude Clay
January 23, 2008, 01:04 PM
Grant, now known as Lefty.............

Eightball
January 23, 2008, 01:08 PM
Let's see.....if that happened to me--y'know, coworker shoots whatever's trying to kill me, hits it, and the next shot is a non-life threatening hit to myself? I'd be thankful that I was wounded instead of dead.

Could just be me, though.

Superlite27
January 23, 2008, 02:32 PM
I don't know. I'd be happy with the first shot that obviously worked. If I was Grant, I'd seriously question my buddie's second shot.

Do me a favor. If I ever get grabbed by a crocodile, DON'T START WITH A HEADSHOT! Go for a few to the heart. If he doesn't let go after that, then try the head.

I wonder if there was any alcohol involved?

Lonestar49
January 23, 2008, 02:54 PM
...

Mistakes:

1. collecting a mothers eggs.. (not a wise choice)

2. taking a second (close range shot) and hitting his buddy..

Lesson: the 2 of them (together) make for trouble..


Ls

ASM826
January 23, 2008, 02:59 PM
If the croc had rolled a different way, it could have been his head. Of course, at that point, he could have gone back to collecting eggs, the crocodile would have been occupied.

"I don't have to outrun the bear, just outrun you.":p

romma
January 23, 2008, 03:44 PM
Q: how do you put your hand in a crocidiles mouth?

A: Very carefully!

ArmedBear
January 23, 2008, 03:51 PM
I think you have to understand a couple of things.

1. Australian law limits handguns to a maximum caliber of 9mm. The most powerful gun they would have had would be a .357 Magnum, and the shooter would probably have to make a head shot to stop the attack.

2. A mature saltwater croc is HUGE, STRONG and thrashes around a LOT. It's a moving target, with the victim in its jaws, right near where you have to hit the animal.

3. If the guy hadn't shot the croc, his buddy would probably be dead. The risk the shooter took was that he'd hit his buddy, but the consequence of his failing to fire was death for the victim.

Zoogster
January 23, 2008, 04:12 PM
I have thought of these types of shots many times. Usualy in reference to dangerous dogs.

If someone was being mauled and attacked by a dog I would not aim for the head. I would proceed to unload multiple rounds into its mid section along a trajectory that posed little danger to the person being attacked. As the spine and organs were destroyed its attack would cease.

I imagine the same is true for a croc, although it really depends on the round used and the capacity of the firearm. If one has only a handful of shots against such a powerful animal it might not be a good tradoff. If however you have the capacity of many autos you could easily expend at least half of them firing into the body before re evaluating the situation and firing into the head and neck area.

The ideal trajectory would be to run up and be close to over the animal and start trying to severe its spine. Otherwise go for organs.

If however the animal is a well armored croc and you only got a round that has minimal penetration you might be better off posing a little more risk to the person being attacked and going for the brain and neck (or exposed underside.)

Don't hurt someone even worse "rescuing" them.

1. Australian law limits handguns to a maximum caliber of 9mm. The most powerful gun they would have had would be a .357 Magnum, and the shooter would probably have to make a head shot to stop the attack.

2. A mature saltwater croc is HUGE, STRONG and thrashes around a LOT. It's a moving target, with the victim in its jaws, right near where you have to hit the animal.

3. If the guy hadn't shot the croc, his buddy would probably be dead. The risk the shooter took was that he'd hit his buddy, but the consequence of his failing to fire was death for the victim.
Which is why posing a greater risk to the person being rescued by going for the head is appropriate. They usualy do not have semi autos, and revolvers have only a limited number of shots. Since the revolver won't be a serious magnum powered firearm appropriate for such an animal, body shots are not likely to be reliably effective.
Low capacity and low power (for the animal) means more risky shots need to be taken to make them count.

ArmedBear
January 23, 2008, 04:20 PM
Zoogster, do you have any idea how big, strong and fast those things are?

They have tiny brains, with minimal cognition beyond attack, kill, eat. And they're reptiles, cold-blooded animals. They use fast-twitch muscles. Blood loss and lung damage won't stop them at all, in the short term.

Here's one eating a bull shark it caught:
http://www.ntnews.com.au/images/uploadedfiles/editorial/pictures/2007/08/14/1croc.jpg

Zoogster
January 23, 2008, 04:27 PM
Well if someone was being attacked by that thing I would fire into the neck area as well as I could.
Far enough back from the limb or body part in its mouth, yet still as high up as possible.
If however the best I had was 5 shots from a .357 or less like in Australia the risk of hitting his arm and going for the ping pong size brain on a moving thrashing target might be warranted.

However if I worked that job in a more firearm friendly place I would have a high powered magnum revolver in something above .44 magnum or an auto like a 10mm with 16 rounds in it.

I would feel fine emptying half of those rounds into the neck before putting the individual at greater risk going for the brain.

HK G3
January 23, 2008, 04:46 PM
This would all have been solved much better if they carried Japanese samurai swords.

Zoogster
January 23, 2008, 05:33 PM
This would all have been solved much better if they carried Japanese samurai swords.
Part of carrying is what is convenient.
They were walking along a muddy river bank collecting eggs likely using both hands.
They will go months or years without using what they carry for protection.
That akward sword in scabbard banging around, long, and restricting thier movement when they are kneeling down and performing various tasks means they would take it off and not have it readily available when they finaly do need it.

That means such a sword would provide little to no protection.

A firearm is in a much more convenient package which means it is far more likely to be carried doing mundane tasks in the long periods of time in between uses.

PercyShelley
January 23, 2008, 05:40 PM
And they're reptiles, cold-blooded animals. They use fast-twitch muscles. Blood loss and lung damage won't stop them at all, in the short term.

That's what I've heard too; their metabolism is slow enough that hitting their circulatory system won't stop their brains fast enough to keep them from eating you. Which leads me to a single conclusion about this scenario:

1) Don't mess with crocodiles.

elrod
January 23, 2008, 05:50 PM
....carried doing mundane tasks ........

I don't believe robbin' eggs from salt-water crocodiles would be my idea of mundane! :what:

Saturnine
January 24, 2008, 12:47 AM
1. collecting a mothers eggs.. (not a wise choice)
Who else's eggs should they have gone for? The fathers?

Double Naught Spy
January 24, 2008, 09:04 AM
They have tiny brains, with minimal cognition beyond attack, kill, eat.
This is something of a gross overgeneralization. Crocodilians are not known for their math skills or participating in sports, but the characterization of "attack, kill, eat" is naive and actually could be applied to several apex predators just as naively. The crocs do have small brains, but do have some siginificant cognitive abilities (See Adam Britton's research http://crocodilian.com/big-gecko/). They have a developed system of calls, are territorial, and mothers nurture their young. As an apex predator, however, they don't fear much and can eat what they want, hence giving rise to the misguided perception of being simplton attacking, killing, and eating animals.

And they're reptiles, cold-blooded animals.
Actually, they are poikilothermic. They regulate body temperature through behavior. They don't have a physiological means of generating much body heat and they don't have a physiological means of reducing body heat, so they do it through behavior. I can assure you that a croc sunning itself on a rock will be warm blooded.

They use fast-twitch muscles.
Yes they do, but they also use slow twitch muscles. You could say the same thing for the cheetah. Marine crocs can be very fast with short sprints of up to 30 mph on land and 15-20 mph in the water, but they also spend a good amount of time "cruising" where they use slow twitch muscles.

scrat
January 24, 2008, 01:12 PM
all i can say is ouch. thats something else.

ripcurlksm
January 24, 2008, 02:10 PM
a hole in the arm is better than a croc in the bush

rickyford2
January 24, 2008, 03:35 PM
Who else's eggs should they have gone for? The fathers?



I think those would be called nuts and they would be harder to get:D

K-Romulus
January 24, 2008, 04:59 PM
We'll have to see the press release from Gun Control Australia (the folks who brought us Rebecca Peters) . . "an illegal defensive use gone wrong?" "Improper storage?"

kentucky bucky
January 24, 2008, 10:23 PM
Why do so many people like to pi$$ off crocs? Seem like every time I flip through the channels I see some numb nuts wrestling, irritating, poking at,
roping, and otherwise aggravating some big croc or alligator. No wonder they bite or a$$ when they get a chance!!!!

catfish101
January 24, 2008, 10:37 PM
The gun laws were the problem. If they had one of those evil black guns the croc would have left them alone because, even with a small brain, the croc would have know that with the piston grip the man could have shot from the hip and had a better chance of hitting it. ;)

If you enjoyed reading about "Man shoots co-worker while rescuing him from crocodile" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!