Pull up a chair...


January 23, 2008, 05:30 PM
Internet is a medium providing effective communications to persons all over the world.
Therefore we are a global society, and one can learn and share with persons all over the world.

Not everyone has the same Rights and Freedoms afforded as others in the world, and even within same countries, there are additional restrictions and regulations.

Information Technology has grown exponentially as have other technologies and advances.
This does not mean one should forget older technologies, skill sets, ideologies and methods.

Before IT became a part of most households, peoples survived, communicated , and lived life on life's terms.
Society investigated and verified, as one was raised to do so.

Today we see more peoples believing in propaganda, brainwashing and hype.
Marketing has done a wonderful job of eroding the self sufficiency of Society and self responsibility.

Freedoms are being eroded and Tyranny is allowed to use what eroded to erode even more.

Anything can be used for good or evil, just a fact of life, and the way life works.
Nuclear can be for medicine, or missiles, nuclear in itself is not good or evil, instead the intent of the user of nuclear defines intent.

Pull up a chair...I got some 'plaining to do it seems.

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January 23, 2008, 05:39 PM
Before IT became a part of most households, peoples survived, communicated , and lived life on life's terms.
Society investigated and verified, as one was raised to do so.

I don't agree. IT has made people more cynical and wary of what the hear I think. People used to believe the fantastic tales of Ulysses and the gods. Frontier folk gazed in wide wonder over dime store novels telling of the exploits of Wyatt Earp and Doc Holiday. None ever questioned whether it was true. It was in print or told by someone who was trusted. It must have been.

Today, people see something on CNN and just roll their eyes. I think that was even the case on 9/11 to a degree before the second plane crashed.


EDIT: I think I may have interupted your trip. My bad.

January 23, 2008, 05:45 PM
If anything takes life, some day it will cease life as we define it.
Right after you drew your first breath, you started the journey of taking your last one.

Accept this, and one can get on with this journey called Life ,and free up a lot of energy and brain power to deal with Life's journey.

Young-Un, you may get injured, maimed, even dead, dammit to hell do so on your terms and not the other SOB's terms. Mentors

I am a US citizen, born in the Southern USA, to clarify for those not in the USA, my position:

-Freedom as outlined by COTUS and BoR.
-Serious Situations, and I am responsible for me.
- Skills sets and Tools, are my responsibility.

There is a "Report to Mod" button, and one has an option to use the "Ignore feature with my user name.

Pull up a chair...

January 23, 2008, 06:01 PM
Find what fits you, one you can reach the trigger and all controls.
Nobody can choose a gun for you, your hands, fingers, and dexterity.

My suggestion is to get with someone seasoned, that is not family, and see all the different types, see and listen to how these operate, and function.

Best for a lady to get with other ladies, as ladies communicate better than men, and have some special considerations men do not.

Actually handle and see if you can reach controls, triggers and the like.

Shoot a variety, and then once narrowed down, do a test Hackathorn came up with.

5 rds.
5yds set out a 1/4 sheet of typing paper.

From concealed is best, low ready is fine.
At the go, acquire and fire 5 rounds as quickly and effectively as can.
The paper does not lie.

Whatever gun you shoot best, in whatever caliber, standard or +p ammunition, will be revealed.

This test is advised all along one's Life's journey.
Injury, surgery, arthistis kicks in, and if the .357 loads hurt, and the .38spls don't, and you get quick effective hits on this drill, load the gun with .38spls.

.40cal hurts, hard to rack slide with RA, and snappy recoil, Tip up Berettas in .380, or 32ACP may allow you to get 5 rounds on target at 5 yds the best.
Hits count, carry the .380 or .32ACP.

Naysayers are not going to be at your serious situation.

January 23, 2008, 06:20 PM
These are fired from shotguns of course, and no projectile is known what it will do at any distance, until it is fired from said gun and said distances.

It does not matter what kind of shotgun, what gauge, what platform, how many rounds it holds, what kind of shell offering...
The gun has to be patterned/shot for slug groups to know.


There is no such thing as guaranteed loading in any shotgun.
So forget all about buying any shotgun shell with the idea that a particular loading is a guaranteed stopper.

Applies to any loading for any firearm.

Bottom line is, when it is your time to die, you die.
It does not matter what gun, what loading, and how many you have, if it is your turn to get shot, injured, maimed or dead, you do so.

Same applies to evil using firearms, including shotguns against you and yours.

In the main OR, I have seen and heard the persons just a cussing and mad as all get out, shot with shotguns.
12 ga slug, 00 buck, #1 , #3, #4 buck, all lived, some come in conscious to ER, then straight to OR, (slug and 00 did) just loud, cussing and pissed!
Some come in in shock, weak, in and out of it, still they lived too.

.357 load, from a .357 revolver stuck in a mouth and trigger tripped and he is still alive.

.22 short killed that lady, so did a .22 lr, 25ACP from small handguns on others.

.410 shell with a load of #6 , killed...

The faster one forgets and ignores all the bull chips, actually accepts they are dying, they are responsible for themselves, and gets out there to try guns, get one that fits them, gets lessons, and continues quality practice, the better off they will be.

Marketing does not give one iota about you, they just want your money.
Your choice to give them money in blind faith to be safe or investigate and verify for yourself.

I am not going to be at your gunfight - Awerbuck

None of you folks were around when I had serious matters, guns pulled and fired at me either.

Lady Luck. Always welcome this Lady to accompany you always.

January 23, 2008, 06:29 PM
It will be interesting to see where this is going. Aren't we all in the choir? What was the primer that set off the powder charge?

January 23, 2008, 06:37 PM
was the primer that set off the powder charge?
Yep. Something lit his fuse. it will be interesting, that is for sure.

January 23, 2008, 07:13 PM
Lady Luck. Always welcome this Lady to accompany you always.

Oh, I will always welcome Lady Luck to come along if she wishes, I just don't think she's as punctual, trustworthy, and loyal as Mr. Skill.

I realize that people entrusting their lives to the entire Skill clan, the Training brothers, the Awareness twins, the Equipment family, and the Overlord of Professional Tactics himself have often fallen stone cold dead to a half hearted attempt by a half-baked mentally deficient moron with a single glance from Ms. Luck.

But I choose to entrust just a little faith in Mr. Percentage as well.

If I use reliable ammunition.
If I inspect each round for deficiencies.
If I inspect my firearm regularly.
If I ensure that it functions correctly.
If I carry one in the chamber.
If I am comfortable with my carry configuration.
If I practice drawing from that configuration.
If I mentally prepare myself for possibilities.
If I maintain my situational awareness.
If I practice shooting my firearm regularly.

....and 100 other steps to proficiency. I rely on the law of averages. Each individual thing I do to increase my proficiency adds a certain percentage to my CONCRETE ODDS OF SURVIVAL. It might just be a thousandth of a percentage point, but it's a thousandth of a percentage point IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.

I realize full well that Lady Luck might walk out the door and a bullet may randomly crash through the window at any moment and strike me down. At least I know that if a situation rolls around where Mr. Skill might come in handy, I haven't left him high and dry while trying to woo the attentions of that fickle woman Luck.

Robert Hairless
January 23, 2008, 07:19 PM

I don't agree. IT has made people more cynical and wary of what the hear I think. People used to believe the fantastic tales of Ulysses and the gods. Frontier folk gazed in wide wonder over dime store novels telling of the exploits of Wyatt Earp and Doc Holiday. None ever questioned whether it was true. It was in print or told by someone who was trusted. It must have been.

Today, people see something on CNN and just roll their eyes. I think that was even the case on 9/11 to a degree before the second plane crashed.


EDIT: I think I may have interupted your trip. My bad.

Steve isn't talking about cynicism. There's no real difference between believing everything and believing nothing, because indiscriminate incredulity is merely the extreme opposite of indiscriminate credulity. Neither is an efficient nor even a useful way to deal with the world.

He is talking about a skill set lacking in many people today. They don't even recognize its existence. And they laugh when someone is kind enough to say that those skills do exist, that they are essential, and that although they are extremely difficult to acquire when one is a young adult it is well worth trying to develop as much of them as possible even then. People from previous generations began to learn those skills early.

The problem Steve confronts seems to be similar to that in trying to explain color to someone born without sight. I don't think it can be done. He obviously thinks it's worth trying. More power to him.

January 23, 2008, 07:25 PM
Hey, Steve, can this thread be my fault?

It's my turn, after all.

And I ain't been blamed for anything lately.

So, I got dibs on this thread.

I get to take credit - er - the blame for this one!


January 23, 2008, 07:38 PM
Investigate & Verify.

Marketing applies to people, places and things.

Guru's and Groupies

This is not a new marketing concept, it has been around forever.
Some folks need to be a groupie to someone or concept, and someone needs to be Guru with concepts and groupies.

This circle jerk of stroking egos will get you injured, maimed and /or dead.

You are dying anyway, your choice if you let a equipment , concepts, or someone else attribute to your checking out.

What do we do???

Investigate & Verify is what you do.

Before Internet we paid attention, asked questions. Folks actually spoke to one another, face to face, including ladies and gents!
Phone calls made, letter written, telegrams sent...

Internet has email to contact others, or use private messaging to get more input after reading a web site about a trainer or facility.
Perhaps in doing a Internet Search, one come upon a website, blog, or review by someone.

I am still learning about computers and Internet and firearm matters.

Great, I respect the fact you are up front and honest and exhibit willingness to learn.

Does the Guru demand one to use certain equipment, guns, ammo, and markets high round count?

Does the Guru have a whole lot of topics and skill sets to be discussed in a limited time frame that is going to be difficult to accomplish in said time frame?

Some of these folks take advantage of "cult" and high round counts downrange does not mean quality training.
They get their money, the ego boost of so many groupies coming thru, and the groupies get a diploma and discount coupon for the next class "they gotta have" in the next level.

Some have only been shooting a very short time, some even "branch out" from the Guru due to demographics, and open a facility, a blob, website, and they have no real world experience, just great writing skills, computer and web page design.

If it sounds too good - it is.

Contrast with the Trainer that has been there, done that, he/she has students, attracted to this trainer , often times taking the same courses over.
Attraction, not Promotion is a key in determining quality lessons in anything.
Be it whom to take a basic NRA safety class from, CCW instruction, learning to shoot, advance lessons in shooting.

Folks recommend , voluntarily recommend folks to take classes under.
Couples, families, and others recommend to each other.
Often times they take classes together, or, take turns with same instructor.
Depends on what one is to get out of a class.

There is a place to not take a class with family, better for the student, and time where couple need to take a class on advances levels in working as a team at home, office, business, or any setting they may encounter out in Life's Journey.

What are you wanting to learn?
What level of skill sets do you currently have?

Guru will demand you use a certain gun, holster and shooting methodology putting hi round counts downrange.

You may need /wanted to get the legal aspects learned, learn to conceal a firearm best, draw, re holster, retain.
Round count?
"Bring 50 rounds for whatever gun you have, spare speed loader/ magazine , holster if you have one, if not we have some we can work with - we may not shoot all those 50 rounds, the main lessons are non-live fire this course" - trainer.

Don't walk - run to this trainer!
I assure you after you attend, you will be recommending wife, husband, teenage kids, and any one else you care about to attend.

Gurus - are about themselves and your money.

Trainers care about you!
They have to pay the light bill, they have to pay stay in business and all.
Still they care about you!

Pull up a chair...

January 23, 2008, 07:45 PM
I follow you but I am not sure where we are going. Have you been drinking??:D

The world, to and extent, seems to be going to he$$ but my grandmother said the same thing when people starting drive cars..

January 23, 2008, 07:56 PM
Common sense, practice, review your practice, think about another way to practice, practice alone where you won't be embarrassed if you make a wrong turn somewhere along the line. Stay the heck away from those "tactical schools" and learn to think on your own, by yourself, in your own environment. The only real training I have had was over fifty years ago at MCRD West. It was great training but taught nothing about CCW, self defense in civilian life etc. I've met folks who "graduated" from not just one but several of these so called schools. I wouldn't let them cover my back in a poker game.:fire:

January 23, 2008, 08:01 PM
please continue teacher, I am your student here to listen and to learn.

January 23, 2008, 08:14 PM
It is said the only thing left of one when they die is that which don't burn.

All the material possessions will burn. We turn into ashes and worm food at the end of this journey called Life.

Some while going through this journey called Life, have lost everything due to fire flood, tornado and other disasters. While a traumatic experience, everyone I have spoken to, have shared the same things, about material things, and what is important.
I have lost much to disaster as well, I can relate.

Mental is so much a key to life, knowing how to go about doing something follows, and having tools to do a task comes next.

Mirrors: Mindset, tactic and equipment in that order, in order to survive.
Mirrors: Shooting is 90% Mental and 10% Physical [Misseldine].

Good shooters are made- not born - Misseldine

Cops used to shoot revolvers out to 50 yards to qualify. Not feet, yards.

Competitive shooter, with nice guns, competition guns, CCW guns, every damn one gone. Disaster struck.
Disaster, even took the ones off site, as this site was hit too.

All we had handy en route were some Model 10s, single shot shotguns, some .22 rifles and one JC Higgins 20 bore pump gun.

Appreciative as he could be, he got the JC Higgins, a Model 10 and his wife took a Model 10 and single shot, and his kid a Marlin 60.

We passed the rest of what we had to others, and no looters and no evil was done.
I've seen him run these guns to shoot 200/200 in skeet, shoot some stages, run the shotgun in a 3 gun type event...

His wife is the rifle shooter, she shoots the butts off gnats like some toss a paper towel in a waste can. Effortless.

Scoot that chair closer....
Two points I want you to write down and underline in red.

1. Mindset, tactics and equipment is the key to survival in that order.
2. Pass down these skills to others.

When you die, all your guns and equipment are burned up by fire, all your trophies, certificates, awards are gone too.

If you pass these and other concepts down, they will remain after you are dead.

That person passes these concepts down, and again, these concepts remain after they are dead.


January 23, 2008, 09:43 PM
Safety is between the ears.
It is not on the safety of a firearm.
It is not because the knife has a locking mechanism, or even a fixed blade.

Never learn on a crutch, for if you lose that crutch, you will fall down. - Mentors

I was raised with 3 Rules of Gun Safety.
Rule 3 was split sometime later on and part of it became what is Rule 4 today.

Remember that sharing I did earlier about gun fit, trying before you buy, reaching controls and the like?

Look the damn gun is not able to do a damn thing without a user, and the user has to able to reach all controls and manipulate the gun.

a. The gun being safely used is up to you. It does not matter if it is a revolver, semi-auto, if this semi-auto is Single Action, Double /Single action, Double action only, has a safety, ambi safety or 14 safeties - damn gun is only going to be as safe as the user of the damn thing.

b. Pick out what fits you, learn it to where it becomes an extension of you.
Forget a gun "having to have" anything to be safe and what this crap is.
I don't care what Brady, Anti's, any Pro-Gun folks on Internet, Forums, Blogs or Personal Websites say.

Safety is between the ears.

WE took the safeties out on purpose on shotguns, and stayed safe, and I do mean hi-round counts on these guns.


Tip: Put your finger on front of sharp side, you will get cut.

I don't give a damn if this is fixed blade, locking knife of any and all locking mechanism design, or traditional slip-joint.
I don't care if this if this is a custom made knife of unobtanium steel, exotic handles, cost umpteen bazillion dollars, only 1-of-50 built by a person that got their picture and knife on the cover of The Rolling Stone...fixed or...

has a lock a 16 pound sledge hammer could not get to fail, is able to open in nth of a nanosecond, is tip up, tip down, tip whomper-jawed, and has a lanyard hole or not...

Stick your finger in front of the sharp edge and you will get cut.

WE had fixed and slip-joints growing up. Locks...goofy suckers we thought and we asked "why".

So it does not close and cut you

Well dumb butt if'n you were raised right, and learned how to use a slip-joint in the first place like you were supposed to - you would not be cutting yourself!

But, but, but...

Listen, we know how to use a slip joint, and fixed blade, now if you were to suggest this lock idea is in addition to, safety between the ears, using correct basic fundamentals, we might pay attention.

Never ever piss on my shoe and tell me it is raining and never tell me a safety /lock is not going to cut me/us.

I guess I should mention this fellow has a bandage for one nasty cut and looked like the poster child for some Band-Aid company.

I was demonstrating how safe these were...

Salesmanship was not this fellas strong suite...not at all.

Guns & Knives.

What the hell is wrong with people today?
They wear out guns from cleaning and lubing and bolting crap on and off - not from shooting.

Folks can't sharpen a knife freehand anymore.
Granted some knives are made to get money from the get-go, with promises the knife with crap for steel not made to use or cut anything will increase in value, only to find out knives like anything else is a buyers market - not collectors market.

That said, folks get a knife and *gasp* actually cut something with it.
I guess the clip onto pocket or whipping it out fast got boring so they thought they would actually cut something.

For some cutting a pc of string with a knife was like sex for the first time, they wanted to, afraid to, not sure how to go about it, and once done had to run take a shower...

*Cut* "Oh My! I cut string, now I need to sharpen my knife! "

Oh Good Grief Charlie Brown! You don't need to sharpen it!

You damn sure don't need a gee whiz sharpener either. What are you going to do if disaster hit and you really have to sharpen one?

Power is out and no where to plug up a silly butt electric one, not to mention batteries are better used for other things, and toting all this crap for a hike, canoe trip, hunting, ain't gonna work.

Freehand vs Doodads - Freehand will always win, it always has.

Get a simple stone and learn to use it.
You gonna let a "girl" beat you, with her Old Hickory kitchen knife and using the bottom of a cereal bowl she uses to touch up a blade?

Probably so...same reason gals just shoot the damn guns and don't care about gigdets, gadgets, what gun oil ...
Gals I run with don't get wrapped around the axles about it being pretty or if no holsters made for gals.

The just go into the shoe shop and "hey can we do this so it fits me better- thanks!"

They don't stick fingers in front of sharp edges on knives, and they don't rely on anything for safety - except what is between the ears.

Its all in the genes they say, gals don't have the dumb macho gene- thank goodness!

January 23, 2008, 10:21 PM
Preach on, brutha Steve! I'm listening.

Cmdr. Gravez0r
January 23, 2008, 10:35 PM
I want this...no, I DEMAND this be made a sticky when he's said his piece.

January 23, 2008, 10:36 PM
Folks in the UK and other countries such as New Zealand are members of THR.

These persons are members of other gun /knife/rights forums and we have those that find responsible firearm owners/ knife owners via Internet searchs, and lurk.
Add persons send links to others about web sites period.

UK and NZ along with other countries are restricted in regard to firearms and knives - for starters.

We in the USA, and other countries that do not have these restrictions would be wise to pay attention as to how this come about, learn from our like kind restricted and use what learned to fight and preserve our freedoms.

WE, being a Global Society, are all, in this Freedom vs Tyranny battle.
UK , NZ, and other countries have in the past and are currently fighting side by side Americans to Preserve Freedom.

WE are ambassadors of Freedom.
WE are ambassadors to up and coming generations in regard to Freedoms.

People are located in other countries for many reasons besides just being born there.
Some are in the Military, others are working for Corporations that support Military and other industries that the work is for Freedom.
Medical Research, Technologies and other reasons.

People have business, property families, investments, retirements planned.
Perhaps they do have plans to move to the USA, and many have and will continue to, just in the meantime some are where they are for a good reason.

They cannot have guns, they are restricted to non-locking knives with 3 inch limits.

Instead of being an ambassador of negative, snarky comments, which is your right of course...

What about getting to know these persons abroad, sharing experience , strength and hope?

If they come to visit the USA, invite them out to shoot, or attend a knife show, a forging, - heck just good old fashioned hospitality if nothing else over a meal.

Would it hurt to be civil, polite, and communicate on the solutions instead of being an ambassador of negative and contributing to the problem?

Got kids?
Internet is great for kids learning from another kid in another country.
Remember, if your kid chooses to send a knife to another, it has to fit legal restrictions, still pretty neat for a kid to get a knife from another kid from abroad.

Just what kind of an ambassador are you?

Pull up a chair...

January 23, 2008, 11:21 PM
Hold onto your chair.

Everyone Stereotypes and Profiles others and in like turn they area Stereotyped and Profiled.

Called Life, deal with it!

No I don't ...

Yeah you do.
Your brain said "nurse" seeing a male or female in hospital scrubs, scrub jacket, tennis shoes ,lanyard around neck and steth in the pocket.

Girls watched the Coke commercial where the construction worker removed his T shirt and thought "Stud-Puppy" or other things Art's Grammaw would blush over.

Pay attention...

In every profession there are bad representatives.

It is not the profession itself, instead the person in the profession.
Just like it is not guns/knives/matches or anything else that is bad, instead the intent of the user of something.


Male, Long hair in a ponytail, beard, tattoo showing, riding a Harley Motorcycle.

Biker. Bikers are all bad

*sigh* No!

1.That fellow is actually a Ortho Surgeon and I assure you, you want him to be your surgeon if you ever get down or a member of family does.

2. RNII STIII ( Registered Nurse, Scrub Tech) This fellow is the one for you want in the OR ( operating room) as either your room charge nurse or scrub tech assisting the Surgeon listed above.

3. CRNA ( Certified Registered Nurse Anesthesia)
This fellow is the one that will be putting you under, and keeping tabs on all your vitals while surgery is going on.

4. PhD of Math, Physics, Chemistry or any other discipline.

5. Undercover LEO , he is keeping tabs for security around the hospital campus, the college campus, across the street from where your kids go to school.

6. Undercover Private In House Security.
Oh he is having a cold one, enjoying his cheeseburger, shooting a game of pool, but he is watching the suits in the corner, and is the one that kept your 401s intact, or gathered information about employees selling your credit card number to others, or ...is letting his buddies come in during graveyard shift and stealing out of the warehouse to sell on the streets...


Well this would be like stereotyping all men as rapists as they have a penis and all ladies whores as they have a vagina.

January 23, 2008, 11:38 PM
I wait patiently for more wisdom Sensei...

January 24, 2008, 12:09 AM
Has Jeff Cooper risen from the dead or do I just need to drop some acid to fully appreciate this thread?

January 24, 2008, 12:14 AM
If your were raised right, you were parented and mentored with tools that fit you so to better learn skill sets.

The human body is not fully developed until about age 16 for girls and age 18 for boys.

All the systems of the human anatomy and physiology.
This why a baby is not to be given honey, why the sacral (tail bone) is not fused with other vertebrae until about age 5. The part of the brain dealing with judgment is not developed until about 16 for girls or age 18 for boys.

This optimum continues until about age 34 to age 36, depending on gender with girls typically lasting longer.

After age 34/36, one's systems start a decline until they die.

Going from memory, not worried about exact, just the general idea here if you will.

Remember, adults had tools that fit you as a kid, and as you got bigger so you could learn skill sets.

Like a kid's sized .22 bolt action rifle, BB Gun, a simple .22 handgun, revolver or semi-auto.
Simple. No optics, just iron sights to learn correct basic fundamentals.

Guns were not too heavy, like handguns such as Ruger Standard , Ruger Standard MKI and MKII.
J and K frame sized revolvers with 2, 3, 4" barrels.

New shooters, especially kids, do not have the hand or grip strength, stamina built up.
If a gun is simple, light, easy to use on is not going to get fatigued, get tired, and lose interest as it is not fun anymore.

Fun is a key. Knock off tin cans and take a break, do it again.

Kids and new shooters want to have fun, see the tin cans getting knocked off, balloons burst, and other reactive targets.

Heavy Bulls-Eye .22 gun, while neat for them to see, hold, even shoot, is not the gun for them to "only have" to learn on.

Tricked out 10/22 again is neat, but it is too long, and they cannot properly shoulder gun and use it.

Get some simple guns, new, used, pawn shop buys, I do not care what.

I don't care if you are not married, don't have nieces or nephews, just have a simple kids .22 bolt rifle and .22 ammunition.
Snag that trade in S&W 422/622 semi-auto pistol in 4" barrel - steel and alloy, light, easy to shoot and affords a lot of quality practice for a new shooter.

These might be a neighbor's kids, co-workers, a girlfriends younger sibs, nieces or nephews.

You might get down with detached retina, neck, shoulder , back surgery, and Doctor Orders- NO Recoil.
That Ruger Standard, S&W 422/622, Buckmaster, Hi-Standard Duramatic, - you bought to assist new shooters, may be the only gun you can safely use for yourself.

Still deteriorating , as one ages and Osteo kicks in, Doctor says driving is too great a risk, as even shutting the trunk, a door, might break your back.
You step down out of bed as you always have and break a foot.

You don't drive, as the risk is too great. Doctor and Physical Therapist agree and you now are allowed that .22 pistol, or Marlin 60, or similar for home use, and pistol when riding with someone going out.

It hurts, all them years of Trapshooting, 3 gun, IDPA, ISPC, still you bought them kid's sized guns, you passed forward, thought of others instead of the latest, greatest something for you.

When you die, you were that guy/lady that had a gun :

"just my size and I knocked tin cans off that fence and we ate corndogs and we had so much fun and ...and..."

Pull up a chair...

January 24, 2008, 12:23 AM
I don't care if this if this is a custom made knife of unobtanium steel, exotic handles, cost umpteen bazillion dollars, only 1-of-50 built by a person that got their picture and knife on the cover of The Rolling Stone...fixed or...

Uh-oh! :D

January 24, 2008, 02:02 AM
Reality is everything we need in regard to firearms and ammunitions was done so by 1955 with the introduction of the .44 magnum.

1935 if one deletes the .44 magnum as a tool for them.

Knife patterns and designs also fit into this category.
Just what the hell is there to improve on in a Bowie, Green River, Chef's ,Butcher, Paring knife anyway?
There ain't.
Ditto for slip joints and patterns and blade designs and more than one bladed Slipjoints.

Like the movies, folks can't come up with better plots, so they remake the movies.
Then again they need the new-fangled computer generated version and the actors and actress cannot act like the original actors and actresses did when originally done in black and white.

Note: Not a threat, instead a promise. If some idiot does a remake of Casablanca in computer gee-whiz color and grapics and has some idiots breathng my air trying to be Bogart and Bergman...

The phrase 'movie star' is misused so much that it has no real meaning any more. Any little pinhead who makes one picture is called a star.... To be a star you have to drag your weight in the box office and be recognized wherever you go." - Bogart

Great, just great.
So now you have a gun just like some Dept uses, or Agency.

Oh not that some testing and evaluations are not done, not that the gun is not a good gun or anything, just the reality is...

Lowest Bidder, Hard Sell Marketing, Unscrupulous Dealings, Politics and other reasons are the real reason that Dept or Agency has that gun.

Brand A comes in, puts cash on the table to buy all the old guns "right" sell new guns "right" offer to put the Armorer through Armorer school free, with free tools and all sorts of perks.

Brands B, C, D...got screwed, maybe in a literal sense if part of the wheeling and dealing involved hookers and free drinks, by Brand A.

Business is Business...

That is "them" that ain't J.Q Public that paid a helluva a lot more for same gun.

Does that gun fit you?
How did it do with the Hackathorn test?

What the hell was wrong with the gun you had or did you catch a case of brain farts and this worsened into I wanna cool gun virus.?

Hey, them nine pellet 00 buck don't pattern too well from your shotgun at 7 yards.

Oops! Sorry! I did not not realize you were shooting that new gun like Dept/Agency has with a 17 round mag.

<17-9 = ,where in the hell did the other 8 rounds go then?>

Mosey on down to sound of a young lady:
" Nuh! Grandpa/Grandma, can I shoot my new gun now?

Uncle 'teve, its my turn with my new gun, get 'em to give my gun back...*giggle-wink*

"Hang on kiddo, Grandpa and Grandma are going to shoot to see who buys you Taco Bell with their CCWs"

"We are?" grandparents

"See kid, they agree with me."
"If they are buying I want steak at that other place then"
"Works for me, say you need a date I am available..."

"It looks one hole, and I can't tell who beat..."
"Me neither kid, I think they should split the tab"
"Yeah, works for me and they can both buy me more ammo too."

If you are LEO or Military, or similar, such as Armored Car, or Corrections you will be issued what needed and have to abide by regs.
You will use the ammunition issued, and you will maintain weapons as per Policy and Protocol.

The rest of you folks may collect for history , personal satisfaction and whatever else.
This bull chip about pretending to be something you are not, living a fantasy, by having guns and ammo based on Dept or Agency issue is not always wise.

CCW, it needs to fit you.

20/20 hindsight is so clear, and while many never leave the lessons of how raised, many use the clarity to return to what works for them.

January 24, 2008, 02:31 AM
Space Race was on and Russians and Americans were just going at it.
All sorts of things were having to be developed to deal with this new Frontier.

The public was benefiting from not only success also failures.
Tang (tm) provided a orange juice in space and Corning Ware (tm) though it failed the test of heat generated in space, works fine for cooking.

Americans, silly Americans with bigger is better and all, spent a huge amount of money and time researching something to write in Space.

Russians were asked and they laughed upon replying:
We use a No. 2 pencil and have pen knives to suppliment pencil sharpeners in space.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it...
No. 2 pencil is used by those in IT to figure IP addressing , subnet, and the like.

Calculators are fine, just they are wrong some times.

GPS units run out batteries...compasses do not use batteries.

Butane does odd things in hi altitudes and in extreme cold.
Magnesium Fire Starters, matches, even Zippo Lighters work.

No. 2 Pencils write down compass setting, shavings saved from sharpening with a slip joint can be used for tinder, one can lube a firearm or pivots on a knife using a the graphite and one can write in space.

Pull up a chair...

January 24, 2008, 02:38 AM
20/20 hindsight is so clear, and while many never leave the lessons of how raised, many use the clarity to return to what works for them.
Not that I would, you know, like, actually know anything about this. Personally. Or anything.

At all.

mr hanky
January 24, 2008, 02:57 AM
I feel like I am in a POW camp or something...no disrespect Steve, I've always liked/enjoyed what you've had to say, just the feeling I got, like this is your last time to say these thoughts or something...

January 24, 2008, 03:06 AM
- Joe Walsh.

Interesting court case and ruling, and that song Walsh has out...

Situation is serious, first responders are going to show up, and everyone is going to drop what is is in hands, right then, right now and hit the ground.

Firearms, knives, flashlights, whatever is gonna get dropped, or tossed where told be tossed.

Everyone needs to be sorted out, even a undercover LEO, a civilian giving aid, criminals...everybody is gonna Stop, Drop and Hit.

Items dropped on pavement, wet grass, in a mud puddle, ditch with snow, and maybe even kicked further away from you over that rough asphalt, is going to be put in a bag.

Granted latex gloves to protect first responders may be used, maybe down at the evidence room being checked in, and all still nobody is going to be doing anything else except to make sure the gun is unloaded and safe.

Eventually court appearence rolls around and a jury of 12 peers is chosen.
The gun, knife, flashlight, whatever is presented as evidence, and not only does judge, jury, opposing attorneys see the physical items, also pictures of these.

Jury of peers does not necessarily mean your shooting buddies who have the same take on life, defense, politics and voted the same way you do.

You will be watched, and it is not what you say/ is represented by council, instead the body language and other non-verbal language that will be "heard".

Your Mug shot taken right after a serious situation happened, your gun, knife, flashlight, maybe other contents of your pocket, jacket found at the scene.

These items that have been sitting in a evidence room, the pictures taken upon inventory, and any on scene pictures.

What is the judge , opposing council, and jury of your peers going to see, both physically "hear" and in the non-verbal language?

I've typed it before, and will again now.
What perception do you give and what perception do you want to give?

Don't tell me some of your are still cringing about the earlier part of this post about a gun getting dropped on concrete, then kicked out of reach , and not wiped off, oiled, and you can forget cleaned and repaired all this time?

One is way past this concern, others more serious concerns should have been dealt with long ago, in the event Problem 2 should occur.

Pull up a chair...

January 24, 2008, 03:13 AM
. . . just the feeling I got, like this is your last time . . .
I wouldn't fret, man.

Steve did another thread like this couple months back or so, and had people worried that he was doing the "roman candle" thing.

Just learn what you can from what's being offered.

I learned a great deal from a man who would say, from time to time, "I will not always be here . . . You won't always be here . . ." followed by an admonishment to pass along what you learn, and to preserve the freedom.

None of us are here forever.

Some of us have an opportunity to teach while we're here.

Learn what you can. That's a gift to you.

Pass it on, intact, to those who follow. That's your gift to others.

I consider it a duty.

January 24, 2008, 03:48 AM

Tough is a War Veteran that does not bitch, gripe, punch the nurses call button while in pain from having being in some hell -hole fighting to preserve freedom.
And is reading to his kid, grandkid, and assisting another Vet.

Tough is a 13 year old teenage girl, that has her head shaved and she knows she is dying of Leukemia, and she is sharing her talents of how to paint and reading to smaller kids in a hospital .

Tough is the fellow that just buried his wife of 37 years, showing up as promised to assist kids in learning to shoot, and doing them home-made donuts he does
He promised the kids, his wife could not keep her promise, but dammit he showed up...

Tough is the lady, that has undergone breast cancer surgery, chemo, and her doing the best she can to pass forward what she knows about shooting, concealed carry and so much more.

Tough is the fella that diabetes takes a foot, he gets back to shoot clays with prosthesis . Cancer hits , he just about gets over that and another Cancer hits.
Then Arthritis kicks in so bad, it hurts to shoot, he can't trust himself to pull targets, he can't write well enough to write working the club shoot and keyboards are just as bad.

He can't fill the trap house, can't fill Igloos with water, he hurts, the pain is awful and it hurts he cannot contribute to shooting, by shooting, RO, pulling targets, putting scores on the tote board...cooking on the grill...

Acceptance is the key, so he has a smile, greet folks, sincere, asks about family and kids.
Everyone is showing up and typical problems arise in running a shoot, he knows, he knows all the in and outs of this club, so he passes forward...

Shoot starts and he has kids near, he has his Amigo , and the kids are not there for his powered chair, they are learning
"Your dad raised his head on that high 3..."
"Your mom is moving her hold point in , bird will beat her, get to check hold points"

Pull cord go kaput in field 3, "Spare in low house field 2 and a kid , someone not shooting runs to handle.

Real folks and all have since passed.
Many more out there today...

Tough is earned respect from having endured, not something one whines for, or buys off the shelf to con folks.

Pull up a chair...

mr hanky
January 24, 2008, 04:58 AM
Good advice Mr. Greebly, I await further instruction from our dear Steve.

January 24, 2008, 11:01 AM
I second Cmdr. Gravez0r. This thread needs to be made a sticky when Steve is done. In fact, why not compelate all his wisdom together into one thread?

Sensei, I patiently wait for more wisdom!

January 24, 2008, 12:34 PM
Can't died a helluva long time ago, before you were born, before your grandpa was born, before his grandpa was born before his gra ...

Can't died.

This journey call Life, is an interesting journey indeed.
While each person travels similar routes, goes through similar areas, experiences similar sights and sounds and learning experiences, not everyone does so at the same stage of the journey.

Some simply never travel the same routes, this does not mean the quality of the journey is better or worse than another, just the way Life is.

Can't is one such stage in Life that all peoples share, of all ages, of all races , creeds, and belief systems.
Water is wet, fire is hot, and A is A .

Interesting is Can't has a tendency to reappear from time to time while traveling this journey called Life. Not a bad thing, instead Can't usually shows up to aid in furthering one's growth and maturity to assist on down the road as they continue to travel through life.

Can't , like many words, are often hard to define, and often the defining words differ in context amongst persons from around the world. Context changes with decades and words take on different meanings. Situations often clarify meaning.
i.e. In the English language the words
Pair, Pare, and Pear, while they sound the same, are spelled differently and mean different things, hence the reason many find learning the English Language difficult .

It may be easier to define by presenting what something is not, versus what something is. Put the fruit referred to as "pear" on a table, and that defines that spelling not meaning "two", or to "cut".

Can't is not and differs from:

-Not having the physical means to do something.
-Not having the educational skill level to do something.
-Not having the willingness to learn, and to put in the effort to gain skill sets.
-Not having the ...

You get the idea.

Wheelchair person can not physically use the stairs effectively. It is not that they Can't, oh they want to have legs , they have the willingness, the desire, the want to, just now they have a challenge.

Acceptance is the key. So wheelchair folks take the elevator.
Just being smart, no pride, no ego, just wheel themselves into the elevator and get on with this journey called Life.

Fire Breaks out and some one with legs hollers out "I can't go down those stairs".

Step aside, as that Wheelchair person will get out of that chair, and get down them damn stairs!
Can't died for the wheelchair bound person, earlier in his/her travels in life.
He/she knows Can't is dead, and while this challenge is a new one, Can't is dead, so they just get on with it to survive.

Contrast a kid with his/her .22 rifle.

I can't hit that stupid tin can! *frump*

Wheelchair person rolls over, maybe dad, mom, grandparent, some relative, someone that volunteers to assist kids on the range.

"Can't died. Remember when you said you "can't tie your shoes?"
"Remember you wanted to learn, were willing to learn, just we shared this was a new learning experience and it was normal to feel frumpy-grump?"
" Frumpy-Grump <giggle-wink> yeah????"
"We got a shoe, with bigger laces, and we sat down and worked it out, right?"
"Right, am I am fastest and bestest shoe tying kid now!"

"Well it has been awhile since you and I got to shoot, and you have that can out there, so why don't we move it in closer to get back in the groove with correct basics?"

"Okay, but what are you going to do with that magic marker?"
"I am going to write Can't on it?"
"Oh can I write that on some cans too?"
"Sure, here you go".

Kid shoots closer, self esteem is high, having fun, killing Can't .
As time goes on the cans with Can't are placed further out to the distance where their skill level last was out shooting.

Then that can with Can't is placed further out, further, than the kid has ever shot before.

There is a set jaw, brain remembering all the correct basic fundamentals, focus , BRASS is remembered, a single .22 ctg is fired and Can't dies again!

Well hell! Not only are you the fastest shoe tier kid, you are also a Can't killer if I ever did see one!

"Yeah! I am a Can't killing kid for sure!"

Can't died!

Pull up a chair...

January 24, 2008, 01:44 PM

Nothing I can add, other than a big sweeping tip of the hat, and the warmest most sincere "THANK YOU!" to Steve, for again passing forward many more of Life's Lessons

January 24, 2008, 03:04 PM
No tool is ever any better than user of said tool.

One cannot buy any tool and instantly become a master in whatever task that tool is designed for; just because they bought one.

Buying a Indy Race car, will not turn you into Mario Andretti.
Buying a AR, will not turn you into Pat Rogers.
Buying a 1897 shotgun will not turn you into Awerbuck
Buying a Colt 1911 will turn you into Chip McCormick or Michael J. Plaxco.
Buying a Nikon camera will not turn you into Oleg.

So you cannot afford a Indy race car, AR, '97, Colt, or Nikon.

Fine, Run what you brung.

Here is where learning the correct basic fundamentals really comes into play.
First thing one learns, it is not the physical item itself, instead mindset, and how to use various tools that allow one to use a tool effectively.

Using a hammer, one learns what hammering is about for various tasks.
Framing hammer is for framing a house, ball peen is for "peening" with the rounded end.

If a nail is protruding in the laundry room ,and all you have is a ball peen hammer, having learned the correct basic fundamentals - run what you brung - that ball peen- and hammer the nail in so you, or someone else does not snag clothes in the laundry room walking by where nail protruded.

Oh sure, a proper hammer, perhaps using a nail punch would be best, still the task is done, nobody snags clothing. Heck use another nail as a nail punch with the ball peen.

Bent nail, no claw on the ball peen, use a pair of pliers, and leverage off the wood handle of ball peen.

Become one with the tools you do have.
Quality practice of skill sets and continue to be receptive in learning new skills sets.

Back in the day, we did "set ups" and "lessons".
No known gun schools, no training except for Police or Military.
Way before IDPA/IPSC, 3 Gun come to be.

Homes and folks had what they had. Money was tight, no credit cards.
Folks saved up, or sometimes did lay-a-way. Credit was the ledger you paid off on payday, and this often was used as kids were sent to the store to get milk, break and eggs.

One bought something after learning, trying various samples of guns, knives , whatever, other folks had, or what the hardware store had to offer.
Investigation and Verification.

It depended on where one lived, as to game to be hunted, household budgets dictated what a home could afford.

Single shot shotguns kept handy behind the back door, or over mantle, felled deer, ducks, geese, small game, pests and varmints on the property and protected the home from escaped criminals from jails, prisons, or chain-gangs that were in the area.

Everyone grew up knowing how to use one, from kids to elderly could use one.

.22 Rifles, often kids sized, were kept handy, not only for teaching and assisting kids, also for food, game, pests , defense. Kids were parented and mentored, and an adult can shoot a kid's or youth sized gun.

It was not uncommon for the house single shot to be a youth model, in 20 bore, as it fit the smallest person in the home, be this grandma, the kid, petite mom, or even the male in the household.

A bigger person can effectively use a smaller gun, where a smaller person cannot always effectively use a bigger gun.

Fella shows up in a jump suit, chain, and off from a chain gang, grandma is 4'11" and 80 pounds sopping wet and that youth 20 bore she knows how to use.
Eight year old is even smaller and his/her .22 rifle assists grandma until the Sheriff Deputy and Correction folks show up.

No 911, just cut into the "party line" tell the Operator what the problem is, and do so with the .22 or 20 bore in total control in hand dialing a rotary phone.

This was practiced in "set ups" and "lessons". Folks showed up and Run What They Brung.

Hardware store .32 pistol, .22 pistol, double barrel Stevens 311, H&R Topper, Winchester 94 in 30-30, S&W .32 cal in J frame , .38spl and Model 10, Colt Detective Specials, 1911, BHPs, Model 70 in '06...

It did not matter, run what you brung, be as one with it.

Preventative measures about the property, being out and about, going to town, big city, that road trip to see kinfolks...camping and hunting trips...

10pm and everyone has gone to bed, and there is the crunch of tires coming down the dirt road, driveway, lights, then the knock on the door, everyone had practiced lessons and knew what to do.

It did not matter if that home only had a Iver Johnson top break .32, single shot 20 bore, Old Hickory knife in the kitchen, the slip-joint Pa kept in his britches pocket and Ma's imitation slip-joint she kept in apron and purse- this situation was handled .


Again, folks learned correct basic fundamentals and knew how to use a tool.
Ma, tried various Old Hickory's at the hardware store and maybe chose one that fit her best. She had tried one at another house and she had a legit need for a bigger , or smaller knife.

Paring knife of 3" fit her hands for various tasks better than the Butcher knife used for food prep, hog killing time, butchering the deer Pa shot, and cutting that watermelon....

Paring knife not only did food prep, also took care of small game, garden chores, tossed sparks like the butcher knife did using spine on a magnesium starter to start a fire out back to roast hot dog and marshmallows with the brush fire, trimmed the wick on the oil lamp - so not mess up them good scissors she got out of lay-a-way making clothes on a Singer push-peddle sewing machine...

Slip-Joint was always on person.
One was not dressed with out a slip-joint, kids, boy and girls, adults, elderly, everyone carried a pocket knife.
In a pocket, it is there.
One might walk off from a fixed knife [Old Hickory] on property - or even out in the woods get separated from a pack, like in a fall and need a knife.
That slip-joint, being on person, was always with you.

Slip-joints , small ones, were sharp! Pivots kept oiled and everyone just touched up with cardboard, as most folks remove too much metal, as the knife does not need sharpening, just touched up.
Cardboard, old belt with no dressing, bottom of a cereal bowl, coffee cup, the window of the truck...

The good stone stayed in the house. Pocket sized kept in the truck, and Ma's vehicle if'n one was well off to have two vehicles.
Used dry, sometime just a good old wad of spit, and stone in weak hand, knife in the other and touch up a blade.

Be this out hunting and fishing, down on the edge of the property, sitting on the benches out front of the courthouse whittling, or the ladies doing that pot-luck and just over there touching up a blade after food prep, and making that fort out of cardboard for kids to play in.

Doctors and Veterinarians kept a small slip joint on person always - as they too were not dressed without a knife.
They also had one in the Doc's bag.
Oh they had "doctoring stuff" still many a time a small, sharp, pen blade did an emergency tracheotomy or some such.


Oklahoma City Bombing that April 19, a Ortho Surgeon snagged his kit to get a trapped lady found in the rubble. Her leg was under rubble, First responders had summoned him, and the only way to extract her, and save her life was to amputate her leg they accessed.
Time was critical, as the area she was in was still crumbling...

He had his special tools, and in he went, his special tools would not fit in the small area he had to work in.
First responders, more than once, almost aborted this rescue, it was that dangerous for him, and the rest of the first responders.

Case Peanut this Ortho Surgeon always keep in his pocket and always sharp, amputated her leg at the knee, she was extracted.
The area crumbled in shortly after.

He run what he brung, and he had to get down to correct basic fundamentals with a small slip-joint, kept sharp, to do this task.

Pull up a chair...

January 24, 2008, 08:15 PM
Sowing the seeds of learned wisdom! A tip 'o the hat to ya, SM. Ya oughta make a compendium of all this!

January 24, 2008, 08:37 PM
Clarity is so rare...

Halo is for Kids
January 24, 2008, 08:51 PM
can you attach your thoughts in an easy to print word document?

January 24, 2008, 09:39 PM
Ive got it all saved in a works document and can put it online if:
1) The author gives me permission; and
2) someone tells me how.

January 24, 2008, 10:02 PM
-If your ever think you have arrived, you have just announced to the world you don't know bull chips from Shinola.

-There will always be those worse off than you, and those better off than you.

-Shoot, scoot, move, shoot is a helluva lot better than stood there, got shot, shoveled dirt atop one and a Amen.

-Keep your enemies close and friends and family closer - enemies are at least honest about their evil intentions.
-Fifty-nine cent screwdriver will kill faster in the hands of a street smart person than a $359 tactical knife in the hands of a wannabe.

-Incoming rounds ones hears the "thwack" of bullet hitting then the sound of the gun being fired.

-Targets that are the recipient of bullets fired do not know they are supposed to react according to what the gun mfg, or ammo mfg said.

-Complacency injure, maims and kills.

-When matters get serious, do something, right, wrong, don't matter, just do something and anything to survive.

-Run what you brung.

-Improvise, Adapt, Overcome.

-Screw the rules and getting style points, yell, cuss, kick, gouge, scratch...
Trash can lid, shoe, belt, antenna off a vehicle, tin cans, sticks, bricks...

-The females of the species is the deadlier of the two -Kipling

-Pity the fool that chooses to do harm a kid a female is near - she owns his butt

-You will not get a Shooter Ready? and Start Buzzer on the streets when evil show up.

-Watch hands.

-Watch the girl with a purse on the streets out running with the gangs.
The girl often has the gun, and signaled to come near so the punk can snag it.

- "3 +1" is SouthNarc's reference to how one can tell they are about to be taken down.

Do a search, look them up, learn them, know them, and share with family.

-Accept the fact one never has a big enough gun , or enough ammo.

-Prevention,not going to where to where trouble is, evading when trouble shows up and dealing with trouble if one cannot evade.

-Just because you carry a gun and knife does not mean you cannot use flower vases, pictures off a wall, throw pitchers of ice tea...

-Quit focusing on Guns and Knives as the only tools, it hinders the brain in thinking , and learning new skill sets.

--Shot Placement is the key.

Firearms are designed to shoot ammunition of certain specs and often sights are regulated to shoot these ammo specs to POA/POI.
i.e .38spl in 158 gr , for fixed sighted revolvers.

Ammunition must feed, extract repeat. Magazines are part of the functioning firearm.
When inspecting, maintaining and cleaning a firearm, chamber is the number area for problems followed by extractor.

Shot placement is the key and in order to do so the above needs to be done.

-It does not matter what the Ammo mfg said, or Internet said, it is your gunfight and you would be best investigating and verifying what works in your gun, cleaning chamber and extractor, than to buy some expensive ammo that does not feed extract, repeat, shoot POA/POI if it does go bang, and quit cleaning the bore where you can eat off it and leaving a chamber that impedes a gun from running.

-Beware the person that shoots one gun .

-Best kept secret in a Semi-Auto 20 gauge shotgun.

-It ain't what you know that kills you - instead that what you don't know.

-Quick thinking, just shoot the damn gun!

Pull up a chair...

January 24, 2008, 10:14 PM
SM, thank you very much for posting this. I have saved your words for future reference and i hope to learn a great deal from you.

January 24, 2008, 10:32 PM
-Buy kid sized guns even though they are not married, nor have nieces and nephews.

-Buy BBs and .22 rim-fire when they don't own a BB Gun or .22 rimfire.

-Pick up kids, feed them supper, clean the kitchen so a lady can go to the range and shoot, assist other ladies and girls.

-Lets his lady pick out her own gun, and lets someone else teach her how to shoot it.

-Cleans house, vacuums, does laundry and assists kids with homework and school projects so a lady can take a CCW class, shoot a tourney, anything.

-Does not show up to shoot, instead shows up to do whatever is needed so kids can shoot, ladies can shoot , new shooters can shoot.

-Makes coffee, makes tea, clean the ladies bathrooms, sweeps, mops, sets out a chocolate bowl, when it is Ladies Day at the club/range.

-Makes chili , knows the Art&Science of ChiliCheese Fries, Corndogs, Hog Dawgs, Burgers, and even knows if a kid's sammich is cut diagonal, the halves are bigger than if cut straight across.

-The proper ratio of Peanut Butter to Jelly on a sammich made for a kid.

-Best way to get rid of change in the console of a vehicle, is to stick a $1 in a hull while shooting clays , and then "Two cents per hull you kids police!'

Easter eggs ain't got nuttin' on kids policing shotgun hulls off a a field and "I got one with a $1 bill ....Me too...Oh..Oh...!"

-Listen, not "hear" listen and pay attention not just "look in general direction" to what ladies in their lives have interests in.
Best gift a man can give a lady is she knowing that man listened and paid attention to her, and bonus point for getting the gift cert, the exact gun related item,or knife item she wanted.

-Ditto for kids.

-They pick up and take folks out to the range that are not able, or best they not drive , or doc's orders to drive.
These folks are assisted when they shoot, and those that cannot shoot, are made comfy so they can mentor in the ways they can too.

-Owns at least one Gentleman's small pen knife , such as a Tuxedo pattern that is sharp, and clean.

He know how present this knife, to slice a lime for a ladies drink, to cut a loose thread, and to cut a small chocolate for a lady into as to not mess up her lipstick.

Pull up a chair...

Halo is for Kids
January 24, 2008, 10:44 PM
can you attach your thoughts in an easy to print word document?

Home now, did it myself.

Cut and paste hack job for download, SM comments up to this point:

(I'll remove it at mod or SM request.)

January 25, 2008, 12:47 AM
tag for a later read

January 25, 2008, 01:37 AM
1. Do you own your guns, knives and gear, or do they own you?

2. Is your tool skill sets dependent on tools or are your tools dependent on you using them?

3. Are you a programmed shooter, or instead one with ingrained and instilled skill sets?

4. Do you keep your promises to a kid, or do you kid about promises to mentor kid?

5. Is yesterday history, and tomorrow a dream or do you have one foot on yesterday and one foot on tomorrow and threrefore pissing on today?

6. Do you put worry on a shelf and therefore only have room for faith in that box or do you take worry back off the shelf and therefore dump out faith?

7. Did you attract someone to freedom or did you promote someone to tyranny today?

There are stars in the Southern sky
And if ever you decide
You should go
There is a taste of time sweetened honey
Down the Seven Bridges Road Eagles

Bob F.
January 26, 2008, 12:01 AM
Keep it coming, Sensi, many, many of us are listening and learning!


January 26, 2008, 12:21 AM
Tumble weed;
tumbles life;
to the place I once found safe;
to where I know now strife...

an added complexity to sm's messages. Keep em' coming man!

January 26, 2008, 12:32 AM
There are stars in the southern sky....

Post #44 kicks it in...

A man that _won't_ cook anything ticks me off... Throw some canned tomato sauce (diced, stewed,etc.) in a pot, add some ground beef, a couple cans of beans and some spices (hint: try cumin, chili powder, and anything that says "garlic" or "onion") and voila! Instant man. The chili might be so-so (add more seasoning ya wuss!), but it won't be terrible. From there its just lather, rinse, repeat, to grow into chili guru status amongst your family...

Believe me, I already have plans for GP911 Jr. when he is able to shoulder the .410...


January 26, 2008, 12:58 AM
Ice hit here today.

Few days ago a TV tower went down, during routine maintenance,it took down with it , a cell phone tower if you will.

Folks were advised to stay in, we had some dangerous roads, and sadly too many serious accidents, including deaths.

Phones: Landlines over worked, some cell phone service over worked and dead spots due to a hop being down.
Ham Radio, has been used to communicate.


Manuel Typewriter, again, got a document typed, and picked up by FedEx as power was out and before that office sent folks home, the lady typed under the light of Mag-Lites, $2 plastic flashlights with 2 D Cells, and $4 6 volt floating lantern someone had from 10 years ago and brought to the office in case of emergency.


Cast Iron cookware , dutch oven, fixed a roast with carrots, potatoes, and onion , in the fireplace.
Oh this family had all utilities, just parenting the kids on how to think out of
the box and have alternate ways of cooking, making tea, coffee, hot chocolate....

They left the lights off, used oil lamps, and listened to a old radio show on tape.
Worked a puzzle, and then dad took apart a 1911, inspected and cleaned it.
Slip-joint pocket knives were inspected, cleaned and touched up, these were used to fix the meal and eat the meal.

Using tools, to parent and mentor kids, and to keep skill sets up to date.


Katrina woke up some folks on a lot of things about serious situations.
It also shocked a lot as to how many folks are not being parented and mentored with old ways, simple correct basic fundamentals, and rely and take for granted new ways and things are best.

Sadly, many have forgotten the lessons of Katrina, and other disasters, and go back to complacency and dependency of new things and ways.

Some folks don't want "it" , some folks don't get "it" and some folks would not know "it" if "it" walked up and bit them on the butt. - Lee Lapin

Screw 'em and fish feed 'em fish heads and rice.

This is for the folks that want "it".

Pull up a chair...

January 26, 2008, 01:59 AM
The Constitution of the United States, and the Bill of Rights, affords you the rights you have.
Freedom means you have the right to your beliefs, and the right to express it.

There is a Natural Order to Life, it exists in the animal kingdom.
All animals come equipped with various "tools" to survive their environments.
There exists a Prey and Predator relationship, including Man being hunted, and the hunter for food.

For example a Quail is no bigger than one's fist. Predators from feral cats to foxes, to other animals , look for quail and their young for food.

Beautiful bird, still only as big as one's fist at best.
Quail will scare the living daylights out of other animals and Man, when the explode from right under foot and take off in flight.
This explosion, distracts and these beautiful birds take off and fly fast and far from danger.

Momma Quail watching and protecting her young.
She will sense danger, and feign a broken wing to lead a predator away from her young.
The predator sees easier prey in that mommaquail with a broken wing...and follows.
Momma will wait, wait, get distance from her young and she will explode into flight, evading the predator, distracting predator from her and her young.
She comes back, young are safe, and predator seeks another easier prey.

Society's throughout history have also preyed on one another.
There was no police, no governing body, no first responders - one had to do for themselves.
One group wanders upon another group with water, berries, and caves.
They want this.
If the ones with the food , berries and caves were strong, maybe had sticks, or rocks to defend with, they kept this area.
If the ones wanting this area had stick, rocks they took it.

History shows a people without a means to defend themselves fell prey to those with the means to take.
Tiger decides to eat a human in a village. If the village has no spears, the tiger takes a villager whenever the tiger chooses.
If the villagers have spears, they can stop this threat and no more villagers are taken by the tiger.

History shares the people with the better means to protect themselves survive better.
Spear was better than throwing rocks at the tiger.
Bow and arrow meant one did not have to get too close to the tiger to defend against it.

Society's , like tigers, have reined terror on People.
Various reasons from wanting land, to forcing belief systems, to making them slaves to do labor.
History shows by taking away any means for a people to defend against anything that which threatens their being - these peoples are easily overcome.

Axes, hoes, machetes, and rakes, for example, having to be turned in and checked back out and accounted for, kept these workers controlled.

History shares criminals do not abide by laws.
Never have.
Criminals can be one person or a group of persons.

During the Cold War, with Russia and USA both having the means to destroy each other, allowed persons to stay safe in both countries.
The playing field was leveled if you will.

This same principle with other countries allows those against guns, and for gun control to have the Rights they have today.

If the USA were to dismantled all defense systems, get rid of all military arms, all military persons, the USA would not be free and the right to express one's self would be gone.

Another country would control you, and the rest of us in the USA.

My suggestion would to be to research history, as history is a great teacher if one pays attention.
There have always been those with the ability to mesmerize others in speech, and print, and to hypnotize them into believing false promises.
Dictators of countries have done so, small cults have "believed" and drank cyanide laced kool aid, others give up life savings and live in compounds only to find it was not Utopia, instead Slavery they fell prey too.

Rigorous honesty is the key,
Do you really believe in Freedom, or do you believe in Tyranny, by another name?
You have the right to whatever you choose, just history shares one would be wise to investigate and verify for themselves what they are actually a part of.



Pull up a chair...

February 27, 2008, 04:17 PM
Please, sticky

February 27, 2008, 06:31 PM
good stuff, thanks for the reality check

January 27, 2009, 03:13 AM
I know I'm bumping a year old thread, and this might not be looked highly upon, but after reading this, I think it deserves to be brought back for all the newer folks like myself to read, and digest.

This type of knowledge may be taken for granted by some, but everything SM has said here is spot on, and needs to be absorbed, reabsorbed, passed on, and remembered for eternity/posterity.

I will do my part.

January 27, 2009, 08:53 AM
One day there will be a link to a condensed and merged thread of sm's wisdom.

January 27, 2009, 10:42 AM
Wow, great stuff! Thanks!

January 27, 2009, 11:24 AM
This needs to be made sticky simply so i can have time to fully read it! and not have it slip past obscurity. From what i read, good works sm. Though kinda ominous....

January 27, 2009, 06:12 PM
Not ominous at all. This man has wisdom and the experience to go with it. Rare traits expressed on paper. I have seen intelligence and I have seen wisdom. It is not every day do you see both.

January 27, 2009, 08:36 PM
This man has wisdom and the experience to go with it. Rare traits expressed on paper. I have seen intelligence and I have seen wisdom. It is not every day do you see both.

Wisdom is just knowledge in action or rather, applied knowledge. We all have knowledge, but proper application is sometimes lacking.

sm seems to appeal to us for his application.

Larry Ashcraft
January 27, 2009, 08:48 PM
After all the requests, I'm going to sticky this for a while.

After all, people come here seeking knowledge, and Steve is one of the best at making some of this stuff understood.

January 27, 2009, 09:02 PM
Steve said:

Manuel Typewriter, again, got a document typed, and picked up by FedEx as power was out and before that office sent folks home…

Thanks Steve!!! As I prepared to make my post, I put my notebook computer’s monitor through my manual typewriter to emulate you…now look at the mess I have. :banghead:

Seriously, yes, this really is a great thread, and was well worth the re-read. Thanks for reviving it.


January 27, 2009, 09:55 PM
I wondered why I had the PMs today as I did, then one sent me link to this thread.

Folks, I am humbled, thank you.

hso, make a note I did not reply like a total idiot, as I did with you via phone the other day.
Make a note, as I knowing me, will goof up big time in the near future again.

*you can bet the farm on that*

Umm, am I supposed to post another something, or what?

I did a really neat deal with Pancakes the other day...
Just not real sure how to post it and stay within posting guidelines of the Forum.

( I wonder if Staff/Mods would "buy" these Pancakes are the ticket for an appetite worked up from reloading , or cleaning a gun, or something? Heck I am a Moderator at another forum and I would allow a Pancake post)


I know, you folks decide if you want me to share about Girls, or Guns, and I will share whichever one you decide on.

Just work with me, if I sneak them pancakes into the post and we will not tell Staff and Mods.

*thought so*

Use Enough Sneak

January 28, 2009, 12:15 AM
sm, sounds like a deal to me!!!

January 28, 2009, 07:56 AM
Ya know, we have all heard the story of the soldier being interviewed during the vietnam era kinda goes like this, Reporter: " What kind of pistol is that?" soldier, "It's a 45 ma'am" reporter replies," Why do you use that particular weapon?" soldier replies "To kill people and because they don't make a 46" (or something like that, anyway) I'm glad there are at least a few people in the world with the ability to think not only out of the box, in the box, on top of the box.............screw the box. Sad to see our country going down the road we are traveling..........so sad. I'm afraid we are fixin to hit a tree.

January 28, 2009, 06:21 PM
Preface: The book : All I Know About Women, which is nothing but blank pages, knows more about women than I do. Therefore if there is a question about something I share about girls, consult the book.


Guys, in case you have not noticed, girls are different than we boys.

For starters, they are pretty, smell good, and know how to hide chocolate like nobody's business.

A boy can look into a Fridge, and see nothing to eat.
A girl can reach into the same fridge, and fix a huge meal, with dessert, and have leftovers for taking brown bag lunches for mom, dad, two kids and the dawg.

Oh, and send the boy with a nice helping for two, down the street while out walking the dawg, for that nice elderly couple at the end of street.
Don't dilly-dally, you still have to take out the trash when you return from walking the dawg...

What do girls really want?

I do not care if the girl is no bigger than from fingertips to elbow, or over a hundred years old...what girls really want:

-To be listened to.
Not heard, listened to. There is a huge difference.

They like to know they are not only being listened to, that someone is also paying attention to them.

i.e. At a store the girl picks up something, and gets that look she does, then she says: This reminds me of the one grandma had..."

If you are a real boy, you will have listened and paid attention.

Trust me, arrive home some evening, with that item she picked up, and commented on , and just give it to her, and not on a gift giving day. and she will ...words cannot express how happy she will be.

I dare you to try this.

Girls want their "alone" time.
This is when they re-charge their batteries.
And do not go sneaking around trying to figure out where they had that chocolate hid, they are eating while being alone.

Go get your own chocolate, and of course share with the girl...

What is hers is hers, and what is ours is hers. - Fundamentals of Girl-Boy stuff.

The hard copy of this is etched in granite, it also may be found in small print and on the back of marriage licenses and on cans of soup, loaves of bread, on a sack of dawg food, inside the top of a trash can lid, ...etc.

Recap: Listened to, Attention, Independent.
Just write that down on a slip of paper and put into your wallet boys...


A girls can maintain and fix more things with a butter knife and can of Singer Sewing Machine oil than a boy can with complete set of Snap-On, MAC, or Craftsman tools.

Here is clue as to why girls shoot better than boys.
Applies to using a knife better that boys, for many tasks.

Oh sure, a boy might have some whoopie-doo knife with a doo-dad sharpener and know all about micro bevels and how to field dress game or clean fish, or even punch car doors.

A girl will not even look into the kitchen drawer, or at knife magnet ( wood blocks are soooo nasty with germs, not to mention take up valuable kitchen counter space...and they don't really match the cabinets, or counter top, stove, dishwasher, curtains, linoleum floor, light fixture, dawg...)

Snag a knife and do them neat cuts on fruits and veggies that impressed other boys, girls, even co-workers and bosses invited home to eat.

Cut up a chicken.
I mean despite the fact the boy said he was bringing home fish, or fowl, or game, a girl is going to have something to eat.

Which is good, and boys would be wise to shut up about the mutant aliens that are the reason no fish, fowl, or game came home with them.

Be sincere, when you thank the girl for fixing fried chicken, mashed 'taters and gravy , scratch biscuits, peas, served with ice tea , and the chocolate pie for dessert served with coffee made with fresh coffee beans she ground with a Krups grinder consisting of 1/3 of French vanilla 1/3 Hazlenut and 1/3 House Blend.

<cue alert>

Whatever knife she snagged, was just the Hardware, the real gifts come from her Software.

Was not that just neater than all get out ,the way she cut that orange into that neat design , she had on the rim of your ice tea glass?

Oh sure orange brings out the Orange Pekoe in the tea, but they don't make a knife you can purchase, that will do that design all by itself...

Sure she shot better than you did at the range, even with your gun.

Again, the stupid gun is nothing but a tool, and it cannot do a darn thing by itself.
Girls know this, they really do.
She was focused on "front sight" and "target".
She did not know she was not supposed to stand "like that".

Boys are embarrassed girsl stand d like that?
[she hit the target and her target is better than yours remember?)

Girls are embarrassed you wore that old, thread bare, hooded sweat shirt to the range.
Boys cannot take a hint, she tossed the darn thing into the trash can for a reason and you embarrassed her when the neighbors informed her, you were out digging into the trash can...

Neighbors do think stuff, and yes, you should have thought about what the neighbors were going to think....
I swear!
Dumber than bottle of nail polish remover sometimes...

Maybe boys need to lean back and focus on front sight and target and they too would shoot better...

She would have shot better had she known what the guns looked like...
The next time she shoots even better, because she knows what the guns look like and wears tennis shoes, jeans/britches, shirt that matches up and earrings and pendent that better accessorize with the guns.

If gun manufactures were smart they would come out with more Cute guns with earrings and pendants that went better with them...

A Jewelry manufacurer /designer, would be wise to have both inexpensive and expensive trinkets to match guns from older wood and blue to new polymer offerings as well.

This tactical stuff does not always mean a boy can hit the broadside of barn standing in it...

They are something else.
Thank Goodness!

January 28, 2009, 07:12 PM
When are you guys going to make Steve a danged moderator already?!!?

January 30, 2009, 03:01 PM
Enjoying the posts so far! Keep them coming.

Find what fits you, one you can reach the trigger and all controls.
Nobody can choose a gun for you, your hands, fingers, and dexterity.

My suggestion is to get with someone seasoned, that is not family, and see all the different types, see and listen to how these operate, and function.

Best for a lady to get with other ladies, as ladies communicate better than men, and have some special considerations men do not.

Actually handle and see if you can reach controls, triggers and the like. This demonstrates control of the gun.

Shoot a variety, and then once narrowed down, do a test Hackathorn came up with.

5 rds.
5yds set out a 1/4 sheet of typing paper.

From concealed is best, low ready is fine.
At the go, acquire and fire 5 rounds as quickly and effectively as can.
The paper does not lie.

Whatever gun you shoot best, in whatever caliber, standard or +p ammunition, will be revealed.

But I disagree with this and what it implies. All it does is show that the shooter has control of the handgun. It does not show proper preparation for fighting, which is what Hackathorn teaches. Additionally, it implies that someone "is good" when they're capable of hitting a static target in a static position under range conditions. The reality is, they are just beginning and relatively untrained as far as preparation for fighting goes.

A better test would involve a number of drills, one of which includes the one mentioned above.

1) 5 rounds standing on a 3x5 card for sighted accuracy. Demonstrates control of the gun.

2) Face the target set at 5 yards. Initiate movement, draw from concealment, and place three rounds in the cardiac triangle. Repeat to other side.

3) Face target set to 10 feet away. Initiate movement and shoot from the 1/2 Hip through the point shoulder position while moving, moving up the target ending with occular window shots. 3-8 shots moving right and left. One or two hands as desired. Shoot out to 45 degree angle or so.

4) Face away from target set 10 feet away. Initiate movement, shoot as needed while moving with one hand. Fire a burst at the chest and one at the head OR just zipper belly to head.

5) Face target at contact distance. One hand high on target. Draw from concealment and put rounds into the lower torso of the target. Do right and left handed.

6) 25 yard distance. Move at an angle. Stop and fire at long distance; don't stop moving within 20 yards. Move into the target in a zig-zag manner, bringing the gun down and in as you close. Shoot several cylinders or magazines. This tests the student's knowledge of the sight continuum and combat urgency (sighted and point shooting) as applied to their skill. Also tests reloading and gun transitions on the move.

January 30, 2009, 11:15 PM
Thanks Mods for placing the sticky, and thank sm for passing on what you had passed on to you.

Doggy Daddy
February 1, 2009, 12:13 AM
A better test would involve a number of drills, one of which includes the one mentioned above.

1) 5 rounds standing on a 3x5 card for sighted accuracy. Demonstrates control of the gun.

2) Face the target set at 5 yards. Initiate movement, draw from concealment, and place three rounds in the cardiac triangle. Repeat to other side.

3) Face target set to 10 feet away. Initiate movement and shoot from the 1/2 Hip through the point shoulder position while moving, moving up the target ending with occular window shots. 3-8 shots moving right and left. One or two hands as desired. Shoot out to 45 degree angle or so.

4) Face away from target set 10 feet away. Initiate movement, shoot as needed while moving with one hand. Fire a burst at the chest and one at the head OR just zipper belly to head.

5) Face target at contact distance. One hand high on target. Draw from concealment and put rounds into the lower torso of the target. Do right and left handed.

6) 25 yard distance. Move at an angle. Stop and fire at long distance; don't stop moving within 20 yards. Move into the target in a zig-zag manner, bringing the gun down and in as you close. Shoot several cylinders or magazines. This tests the student's knowledge of the sight continuum and combat urgency (sighted and point shooting) as applied to their skill. Also tests reloading and gun transitions on the move.

And you think I'm going to require all that just to see if the gun fits me?? :scrutiny:

February 3, 2009, 02:33 PM
Yes, to verify that the gun fits, feels good over a practice session, and there are no weird "bugs" with it. While the buyer is at it, they may as well get a practice session in. The S&W Mountain Gun I had in 44 Magnum was great for 12 rounds. I tested with six 240 grainers. I found out why it was on sale...24 rounds a month was enough.

I loved the HK USP 45 Compact...until I passed 100 rounds or so in one session. The checkering on the frontstrap was too aggressive.

February 20, 2009, 09:24 PM
Deleted due to "if you can't something nice don't say nothing at all".

fireman 9731
February 23, 2009, 01:39 PM
This is a great sticky!

needless to say, my chair is pulled up :)

February 24, 2009, 01:40 AM

The reality is, we don't know whom is whom anymore, even with a playing card.
With acquisitions, mergers, buy outs and folks just flat going out of business (death, retired) and then someone using that store front, we don't know.

Yes, one should be involved in legislative matters, and one should let advertisers know they do not appreciate anti RKBA sentiments.

Still here is the reality. Not everyone lives in a big city, with lots of choices of where to shop.
WE have pro RKBA persons, that can no longer drive, and are dependent on transportation, such as retirement homes, or even family.

If the grand kids have won a gift certificate from some Box Store, then by golly the grand kids that earned this in school with good grades, a have a right to go use that Box Store Cert, even if the Box Store is not all that RKBA.

So if you are dependent, for whatever reason, and your family is heading to the Box Store, chill out, let the grand kids be grand kids.

Kids are expensive, and not just at the kitchen table. One day the jeans you bought with room to grow, are too small. Those tennis shoes, underwear and socks become out grown too.

In a big city, one has more choices. The reality is, not everyone lives in a big city.

I live in area, that is so small, we don't even have a dot on the map.
I have a gas station, that carries gas, diesel, kerosene, rents some DVDs, fish bait, makes a fine pizza, and has smokes, beer, some hard liquor, and some grocery items.
Just a small town convenience store. I have one cop, no stop lights.
I do have some stops signs , yield signs, and speed limit signs.
Heck, the alleys are not paved where I live.

The nearest small town is about 15 miles from me. So if I want anything, anything at all, I have to travel to get it.
In this small town, which has stop lights, and even middle of the road turn lanes ( this going to town is real exciting). I mean they even have a few fast food joints!

Small town America and the old mom and pops ain't around like they used to be.
I needed some keys made, and the old boy that used to do keys, is gone.
After checking a few places, I finally found a place that does keys.

I am like a number of folks that are members here. If we want anything, we have to travel to town to get it. We have to travel to a town that has what we need, as not all small towns near, are going to have what we need.

Naturally, I and others find the old mom and pop stores are gone, and we don't have a choice , except to do business with a Box Store.

The nearest "big city" I have, is about 30 or so miles away.

Here is another thing, while the nearest town has some grocery stores I can choose from, let me share a simple comparison of getting the most for my money.

Ramen Noodles.
My convenience store get 49 cents, small grocery store gets 33 cents at one, and 25 cents at another. Box Store gets 16 cents.

Loaf of Bread.
My convenience store gets $2.39, one small grocery store gets $1.89, another $2.09 and the Box Store, $1.34.

Dry Pinto Beans.
Convenience store $1.79 for a 1# bag , Box store $1.89 for a 2# bag.

Now I am single, go figure what some families spend on kids with "hollow legs" they have to feed each week.

Yes, one is wise to fight for Freedom, just one can fight on a full stomach better than they can on an empty one.

On a full stomach one can contact legislators, advertisers, and business owners in regard to RKBA.
One can find on line sites to buy clothing, that even with shipping, afford quality clothing for monies spent with companies pro RKBA ( or we hope they are).

Plan ahead, network, and think out of the box.
Living in a big city will cause folks to be lazy and complacent.
Big city folks get hungry, so they run down to a fast food joint. Two hours later they get a craving for a candy bar, and again run on down to the store to get one.

Not where I and others reside. Especially with families.
Sure, we get caught, I fumbled my coffee one day, and spilled most of it on the floor.
My fault, I am human, still it cost me $5.69 for coffee at my local gas station.

During serious weather events, the only folks that were open, and we had to travel to, for batteries, clothes, first aid, and much needed stuff , was a Box Store.

Folks had emergency stuff, some was destroyed and lost when the storms hit, some were used up, and some suffered damage.
Screw the attitude, we had a serious situation and we needed supplies ,and needed them ASAP.

Sure, there is place for not doing business with folks, then again...

Never criticize another until you have walked a mile in their shoes.

A little common sense goes a long way.

February 24, 2009, 04:43 AM
First off, some real simple definitions-

Strategy: Plans, aims or goals
Tactics: Actions taken to accomplish plans, aims or goals.

Now let us use these definitions in a real simple everyday example.

Strategy: Not dropping the toothbrush into the toilet.

Tactics: Close the darn toilet lid.
Sure not brushing your teeth over the toilet, running around the bathroom with a toothbrush in your mouth can be part of the plans of action, to accomplish the goal of not dropping your toothbrush into the toilet as well.

You see, this Strategy & Tactic bidness is not that difficult. It helps to keep in mind the definitions of Strategy and Tactics in the context they really are.

You will also note in the toothbrush example, there is more than one tactic employed, and one is not necessarily better than the other. Instead think of them as back up plans, or contingency plans. Each designed to compliment and work with the others.

I have no friggin' idea why some folks have the difficult time with S&T they do, if they are using the definitions of S&T as they really are.

Now I can see why some folks do have problems with S&T. First off definitions have to do with Hardware, not Software.

I mean good grief Margo!
Somebody came out with a tactical toilet and they make money selling these to folks with a dictionary that defines strategy and tactics different than mine does, and some other folks around here.

If I were rich, I would buy Bidets and have them in black, and coyote brown, then jack the price up 500 % and market them as Tactical Boot cleaners.

Oral B and Butler toothbrush manufacturers, if you folks come out with a carbon fiber toothbrush, I want my percentage off the top and and monthly checks for royalties.

I got the "Arctic" and "Desert" toothpaste figured out, and have for a long long time.
I assure you my "toothpaste" will not freeze or melt due to climate.
All I need is some labels and to do some slick marketing.

Yes ladies and gents, one can learn a lot about Strategy and Tactics from kids, if you pay attention.

If a kid feels "creepy" what do they do?
They stop, look all around for a safe person or safe place. They are "scanning" and looking for somewhere, or someone to go to.

How about strangers? You have some people in your house and the kid runs in from playing.
They "listen", sure they may come running to where you and the strangers are, but they are listening.
They often stop before they enter that room. If you will notice, they peek around the door facing, sometimes they get near the floor and peek , really fast, from down low.

Adults will stand in the "frame of death" , and a kid will peek around a corner really fast.
You tell me which is the better S&T?

If you want to really learn about Predator and Prey relationships, watch critters.
If you want to learn about "survival" , again, watch animals.

I don't care what "critter" it is, or how big or small, they all are equipped with skill sets of some kind.

Some have talons, others enhanced sight, some have poisons, some are really strong...then again, what does a Quail have?

This beautiful bird, no bigger than your fist, can teach one a lot about Strategy & Tactics.

It is no secret I am fond of The Old Man and The Boy , by Robert Ruark.

Now I don't recall if I shared one of my lessons mentors had me do, was, pay attention to quail.
Oh how I got a kick out of these beautiful birds! I spent a lot of time paying attention to them. And not just being out on the property either...
I did not have encyclopedias at home, but I liked going to the Library and Mentors would help me with books about quail.

Yes, I am sharing the "critter" I come up paying attention was quail.
Sure, I paid attention to all critters, it was called "reading the room", or in layman's terms, just paying attention, accessing, observing, and learning.
Still the quail fascinated me as wee brat, and still does.
Mentors did too, and this was all special to us .

Still some serious lessons can be learned from quail, about Software, not Hardware.

Now I did not have pheasants, grouse, or woodcock where I was born and raised, others have shared they grew up using these beautiful birds the same way I did quail , in learning about Predator and Prey relationships, Strategy & Tactics, and staying safe.

If you want to know what the weather is going to do, read critters.
Seriously, they have senses and all we humans do not have.

You want to stay safe in a serious situation like a forest fire, or flood, watch the critters, they know which direction is danger, and which direction leads to safety.

Now here is one for you. These critters put up stores of nuts, as we all know.
Did you know these critters forget where they put up these stores?
No worry, since all the squirrels put up stores, and forget, they just use each others stores.
Now ain't that a neat 'strategy and tactic"?

No Internet back in my day. Heck one day they brought this big contraption into the house and called it a "television" or "tv" for short.
I was actually ticked off about this contraption, as it took up room where I played.
Oh, and my goldfish had to be moved, and my gold fish was in the best spot until that contraption showed up.

It had 3 stations, all in black and white. The programming started about 6:00 am, and 'went off the air' about 9:30 pm

I finally warmed up this contraption, because I found out it had a "injun" that showed when the programming was off.

Adults called it a "test pattern". I saw this as "injun" target for my suction darts I shot from my 1911 looking and Model 10 looking dart guns, and Model 94 looking lever action that shot corks

I have no idea what Sarah Brady was doing as a kid, but I was doing some serious S&T trying to figure out how to sneak out of bed after adults went to sleep, and shoot my "injun target".

The firearm community does not need anymore tack-tickle stuff. What we need is dart guns and cork shooting lever actions that are q-u-i-e-t, so kids can shoot tvs in the wee hours and not have adults pop their butt when they get caught.

Despite all that...I turned out all right.

So what are your plans, aims and goals to stay safe, and what actions do you need to take in order to accomplish your plans, aims and goals?

All "critters" are part of this predator and prey relationship, and they each have their own Software, no matter what Hardware they come equipped with.

Respect the quail -Ruark

February 27, 2009, 01:28 PM
It appears this thread is about sharing personal wisdom. Here is my humble contribution:

You were born with two ears and only one mouth. This should be a clear indication that one should only talk, at a maximum, one third of the time.

Learn how to communicate effectively so that you can present a compelling argument when the time comes. Learn how to be critical so you can identify unanswered questions. These two things go hand in hand, and you learn how to do this by reading.

Sort out any conflicts with family members while you have the opportunity to do so. "The day" will come and you'll wish you had done this very thing.

Call your mother, for Pete's sake.

When you are angry, go pound the sand as an alternative to subjecting your loved ones to your bad mood. When your anger subsides, talk about it and be prepared to listen at length.

Keep up with your state legislators and what laws they are currently considering. In most cases, you will be astonished. This is where your communication skills will prove to be useful.

Clint C
March 5, 2009, 02:04 PM
I am really enjoying this thread. :)

March 5, 2009, 08:33 PM
The only thing any of us can really share, are our experience and observations.

And some Hardware.

First the Software.

The sad reality is, many folks are not being brought up with firearms in the home. Nor are they being brought up with knives.
Nor learning how shoot, hunt, use a knife, sharpen a knife and maintain it.

These folks are not being parented as kids used to be. Many do not have Mentors to assist them as well.

If you want to keep what was passed onto you, give it away to another. It does not matter what you have to pass forward, pass it forward.
Teaching someone to shoot , or how to sharpen a knife freehand are two obvious activities one can pass forward.

Maybe you reload metallic or shotguns shells. Pass it forward.
Maybe you can read maps, and use a compass. Pass it forward.
Learning to build a fire, make shelter, and gather water is not just for Scouting Programs, we all need to know how to do this.

Perhaps you have a "green thumb" and can grow tomatoes, pinto beans, corn...
You have mechanical skills for motor vehicles, or outboard motors...generators, plumbing, electrical...

We all have talents and gifts, even if we do not think so. Pass it forward, this is what responsible firearm owners do.

Growing 'maters, being able to replace a washer in a kitchen faucet, figuring out why a car won't start and being able to replace a battery - saves someone some monies, besides feeling self reliant.

The monies saved from being self reliant, might make the difference in a kid getting a new .22 rifle, or the lady getting her CCW license, or going to the range, or...

Now Hardware.

You have not used that Red Ryder BB Gun in decades. You have no kids of your own , but there is a kid in need of one.
Maybe someone uses Red Ryder's to teach shotgunning, Pass it forward.

That holster drawer.
Yeah that sucker has some stuff you will never use...Somebody has a need for what you have in that drawer.
Get with a CCW instructor, or training facility and there will be a person in need and you might make all the difference in giving one away.

That fella or gal running the shoe shop, will pass forward in tweaking the fit of that holster, or maybe the belt just needs contouring to better fit a body shape.

You might be flat broke, unemployed because you got laid off.
Yo can flip a burger , turn a hot dawg, make lemonade, or make coffee.
Just get out of self, head to a range or sit in on a CCW class.

That mom will appreciate a burger flipped, and that dad will wonder how a kid can get mustard on the seat of a pair of jeans from a hot dawg.
The CCW instructor will appreciate coffee being made, materials passed out, and the lights flipped on or off for a video presentation.

You get the point.

To keep it - give it away.

March 6, 2009, 09:36 AM
The sad reality is, many folks are not being brought up with firearms in the home. Nor are they being brought up with knives.
Nor learning how shoot, hunt, use a knife, sharpen a knife and maintain it.

This latest post is so very true. I've put in some hard thought into the rearing of my kids so that they don't miss out on the things I was blessed with. I recently decided to make sure the boys get a chance to participate in the Boy Scouts and in 4-H. Whether they are interested in them or not, I don't care, but I want them to have the opportunity to get the experienced I did from groups like that.

My wife and I have decided to move out of the city (pop. 5,000) and buy some land so the kids can grow up with wide open freedom. I know what you might say, this little town isn't a city. It is to us two farm kids who are now parents.

Steve, thanks again.

Kind of Blued
March 12, 2009, 03:26 AM
In 10th grade Biology, we used our knives in the lab to dissect worms, frogs, lizards...
We had a super cool, good looking young Bio Teacher that drove a 'Vette.
Her husband was a "hunk" the gals said.

Ah yes...Jimi Hendrix was cranked up in the lab, and Young Sweet Thang teacher said " Class, get your Frog Stickers out, we have some dissecting to do"

I thought sm was AT LEAST in his 60s! :eek:

Carry on, kind sir!

March 12, 2009, 04:05 AM
I thought sm was AT LEAST in his 60s!


Nah dude, Ike was in his second year of Presidency with Nixon as VP when I was born. I just started really early on some stuff.

Art and I often get taken for being around the same age.
Ain't neither one of us every acted our age, and we ain't about to start to either.


Kind of Blued
March 12, 2009, 04:24 AM
Ah well, I hope you don't mind if I keep you as an older fella on his front porch in my mind's eye, because at a certain point, the brain can't go back far enough to change it. :)

I suppose that's a compliment. It'll happen reading a good novel, imagining the narrator or character after spending so much time reading with 'em; then they make the movie and get it all wrong. :mad:

The mind's a funny thing.

March 13, 2010, 01:55 AM
Thank you Mot45acp for pointing me to this thread with your signature.
Thank you sm for sharing your insights - I have greatly enjoyed reading them.

March 13, 2010, 10:15 AM
Now this is a serious rant! I wonder how many here will admit to tuning him out after the first page??

March 13, 2010, 10:48 AM
They'd be noobs or foolish if they did.

SM's style is unique, but his wisdom is nearly universal.

March 13, 2010, 11:08 AM
There's no arguing the wisdom, just too verbose for my tastes.

March 13, 2010, 07:52 PM
I wish sm would tip back the Geritol and start posting some more. :)

There's no arguing the wisdom, just too verbose for my tastes.

Just a difference in communications style. Some people type out the words that they would say in a conversation. Some folks seem to type out responses as though they were text-message repsonses (they very well could be, on today's phones.) The medium is the same, but the approach is different. sm tends to type as though he were writing... and I find it a refreshing change.

March 13, 2010, 07:57 PM
I can understand the problem folks have with the "Faulknerian" style of some of the posts and I appreciate the recognition of the wisdom amongst the rest of the words. Not everyone can get beyond the format.

As to sm posting some more, he's in a place, like many these days, where his circumstances leave him without daily internet access.

March 13, 2010, 10:01 PM
-The proper ratio of Peanut Butter to Jelly on a sammich made for a kid.

And this is best learned with trial and error over many mornings discussing such matters. :)

I hope all is well.

March 14, 2010, 02:27 PM
Hello friends and neighbors // Thanks for taking the time SM , well worth the read.

March 14, 2010, 04:35 PM
SM's style is unique, but his wisdom is nearly universal.Yes it is, universal that is, but I like his style. But heck, I understood and liked Shakespeare in HS too. :cool:

March 23, 2010, 07:40 PM
I suggest you spend quality time getting lessons, and spend quality time in practice , of those things to keep you safe.

Not just shooting...as not everything defaults to gun .

Then again I was raised, where one learned to drive a stick shift...
...correct basic fundamentals transition to automatic transmissions.

March 23, 2010, 07:48 PM
Please Sensei, Your pupils desire true knowledge...

March 24, 2010, 12:59 AM
Just a few things I carry with me, perhaps could be expanded upon:

Always give someone the benefit of the doubt. If you got it all figured out, you may as well not even be alive. Listen. Learn. That "jerk" you run into at the market may very well be coming back from burying his mother/father/wife and is hurrying to grab a meal for his family.

On this subject- When you run into a funeral procession, pull over and pay your respects to those passing by. Take a breath and be thankful for your moment of life. There will be a day when you're driving in that line. -and another when you're riding in it.

Every day- step outside and enjoy the fresh air. Stand with the sunlight on your skin. The birds chirping. Close your eyes and breath deep.

There are over 6,000,000,000 people on this planet right now. Not to mention the millions and millions that have come and gone. You are a spec on a dot in an ocean of stars. Be humble.

When you're laying in bed next to your significant other, hold her close. Listen to her breathe. Hold her body close to yours and savor every golden second you can in that moment. Do this each and every night. And every chance you can. A day will come when you can't. And you would give ANYTHING you ever could for just one more moment. But you cannot. And it will hurt.

Don't take life for granted. Don't get caught up in life to forget to live.

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