AR questions....


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SSN Vet
January 24, 2008, 12:04 AM
I'm conspiring to do an AR build.....;)......

purpose of rifle is fun gun:), HD:scrutiny: and CQC SHTF zombie slayer:rolleyes:

but I'm pretty much an AR newby, though I have handled and fired a 20" A2.

so here's my dopey questions....

1. if you want to go with a 16" barrel, does the CAR have any advantage over the mid. length?

I'm leaning towards the mid. length for these reasons.

Length and weight seem almost identical.

I've read that the mid. length gas system operates at a lower pressure and is less punishing on the rifle.

Personal preferance for mid. length ascetics.

Am I missing something?

Does the longer mid. length sight radius still aquire targets quickly?

Ballance, handiness comparisons?

2. If the price of a wiz. bang holographic sight system is out of reach, is there any reason to foot the extra $ for the A4 config.?

3. I'm getting the "twist rate thing" mixed up....

Which stabilizes heavier bullets? 1:9 or 1:7?

I'll get .223 dies right off, so the flexibility to experiment with bullet weights and loads is desired, though I usually wind up with just two loads...one for cheap plinking and one for....ahem....max. destruction!

95% or more of my shooting will be at 200 yds. or less.

thanks in advance,

SSN

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HOLY DIVER
January 24, 2008, 12:11 AM
as far as the upper goes i'm not sure witch operates better
a 1:9 twist will shoot 55grain up 69 very well (in my opion)
the 1:7 will shoot the heavier bulletts better

jerkface11
January 24, 2008, 12:34 AM
Check out a Dissipator. Mid-length gas system rifle-length sight radius. All on a 16" barrel.

jpwilly
January 24, 2008, 01:27 AM
The lower the ratio the faster the twist...think of it this way 1:7 means 1 rotation every 7 inches... 1:9 is one turn in 9 inches of bbl. I have the M4 and prefer it for plinking SHTF etc etc...you can put a Truglow Red Dot on and have a wiz bang fast sight for $50. Both of my AR's are DPMS = great quality and easy on the wallet!

mc223
January 24, 2008, 01:43 AM
zombie slayer

I think you would need this for this application.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=3812463&postcount=7

taliv
January 24, 2008, 01:56 AM
i thought dissipators were carbine length gas on rifle length sights.

1. midlength is superior in pretty much every regard
2. A4 is more expensive? i hadn't noticed
3. 1:7

not sure what you mean by max destruction, but i'd encourage you to reconsider that plan.

i'll wager you'll shoot your cheap plinking bullets enough that you know point of impact at several ranges (5'-200yrd) and you'll shoot them enough to work out the bugs, so you know they're reliable.

time comes you NEED to use the rifle, what on Earth would make you want to give up those two things to switch to some gimmicky bullet construction or hot load?

shoot what you know and save the terminal ballistics worries for the internet

SSN Vet
January 24, 2008, 11:34 AM
i'll wager you'll shoot your cheap plinking bullets enough that you know point of impact at several ranges (5'-200yrd) and you'll shoot them enough to work out the bugs, so you know they're reliable.

time comes you NEED to use the rifle, what on Earth would make you want to give up those two things to switch to some gimmicky bullet construction or hot load?

shoot what you know and save the terminal ballistics worries for the internet

I understand what your saying and that's good advice.

I'm casting bullets and rolling my own plinkers for my converted x39 Saiga and then buying jacketed soft points for any defense type application. So that's the mind set I was thinking about. I don't think there's any good casting options for .223 (though I'm happy to hear of any), but was thinking that pulled mil. surp. bullets or maybe even copper plated might offer an economical plinker, which could be pretty well matched balistically with jacketed loads......but I could very well be wrong with this "theory".

2. A4 is more expensive? i hadn't noticed

as stated, I'm an AR newby....my assumption was that you have to buy some kind of sight for your A4 receiver, and if you add in a removeable carry handle/sight, or expensive holographic sight, you're way over the price of an A2. But yes, an bare A4 is cheaper than an A2.

Bartholomew Roberts
January 24, 2008, 12:48 PM
1. if you want to go with a 16" barrel, does the CAR have any advantage over the mid. length?

I really like the midlength for the 16" rifles. It is about a perfect match for that barrel length.

2. If the price of a wiz. bang holographic sight system is out of reach, is there any reason to foot the extra $ for the A4 config.?

Lots of reasons to go flattop even if you never use an optic. For one, you have a lot more flexibility in iron sights. They make M1A National Match, H&K diopter, and dozens of different iron sights for A4 uppers. I also wouldn't buy a carry handle with the rifle. There are literally hundreds of guys out there who got the carry handle and then later added a different rear sight so you can usually pick these up at half the price (or less) used.

3. I'm getting the "twist rate thing" mixed up.... Which stabilizes heavier bullets? 1:9 or 1:7?

1:7 is guaranteed to stabilize the heavier (70gr+) bullets and will also shoot rounds as light as 45gr well.

1:9 MAY stabilize the heavier 75gr and 77gr ammo (sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't) and will shoot the lighter 45-55gr rounds slightly more accurately (I think the difference is about 0.25" at 100yds between a good 1:9 shooting lighter ammo and a good 1:7 shooting the same ammo - not a dramatic difference by any means but may make a difference if you plan on any serious competition for accuracy).

rino451
January 24, 2008, 01:05 PM
I imagine that having a mid might help a bit for someone REALLY good with irons. You can calm down a CAR by dropping in a $25 9mm buffer if it's too spirited for you.

One thing I will say about the CAR length, is that it really doesn't take a two point sling all that well. I'd go for something/anything that puts the front sling swivel further out there. Either way is a compromise, but I've found a two point useless on the CAR for anything other than carrying the rifle.

1:9 is a good compromise. Mine does reasonably well with the 55gr. and pulled/resized 62gr. bullets. YMMV, but that's where reloading can help eek out a little more performance out of a barrel and two different bullet weights. I reload for convenience, so I drop 25 gr. of TAC behind my 55 and 62 gr bullets.

Regarding reloading plinking vs. whatever ammo, if you're reloading, why have two? The cost differential is almost unnoticeable between the two and the work identical. Roll your load and run with it. About the only difference will be in what you drop on to - commercial vs. pulled vs. other bullets - and even then, most reloads will do what you need then to so and most people won't be able to make use of the actual differences in the cartridges. Especially if you're using irons at under 200.

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