Why Hillary Hates Guns


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XD-40 Shooter
January 24, 2008, 12:24 AM
Get a load of this article, it should scare the crap out of you. I think its very credible too. I'm not trying to start anything political here, just putting the info out there, which I think is very pertinent.

http://www.poe.com/?page_id=1301

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.38 Special
January 24, 2008, 12:34 AM
I dislike Hillary as much as anyone, but I think the article is off-base. The article is essentially saying that the left is against guns because the right owns most of them, but will be for guns once they have most of them. The essential flaw with the argument is that there's nothing stopping the left from going out and buying guns.

IMO, Hillary doesn't like guns for the same reason most of the left don't like guns: they don't trust commoners.

langenc
January 24, 2008, 12:37 AM
She dont dislike guns. All her bodyguards have them. She will soon have many more bodyguards.

As noted she dislikes us with guns. It is one of those "Horrah for me to HExx with you"

.38 Special
January 24, 2008, 12:41 AM
"She doesn't dislike guns. She dislikes us with guns."

That's a heckuva line.

Winchester 73
January 24, 2008, 12:48 AM
COLUMN 12.03.07: Why Hillary Hates Guns



by Richard Lawrence Poe
Monday, December 3, 2007
Past Columns


SUMMARY: We all know that Hillary Clinton is America’s leading gun-hater. But why? The explanation may lie in the teachings of her one-time political mentor Saul Alinsky.




HILLARY CLINTON is America’s leading gun-hater. This is no secret. Her “F” rating from the National Rifle Association merely confirms the obvious. More perplexing is why she hates guns. The explanation may lie in the teachings of Hillary’s one-time political mentor Saul Alinsky.

As noted in last week’s column, Alinsky was a radical organizer who got his start building militant community groups in Chicago slums during the 1930s. Young Hillary met him through a leftwing church group in high school. She wrote her senior thesis about Alinsky at Wellesley College, and remained friends with him until Alinsky died in 1972. After law school, Alinsky operatives got Hillary an appointment to the House Judiciary Committee’s Watergate investigative team in 1974.

Hillary’s ties to Alinsky run deep. Her tactics have long borne his imprint.

In 1971, Alinsky wrote Rules for Radicals, a book destined to change the American left. In it, Alinsky mocked Sixties radicals as dilettantes who loved to talk revolution, but shunned the hard work of organizing the masses.

Especially irksome to Alinsky was loose talk of guns and bombs.

Such talk was fashionable in the Sixties. Student protestors loved quoting Chairman Mao’s 1938 statement, “Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun”.

Some activists, like those of the Black Panther Party, went beyond mere words. In their ten-point platform of October 1966, the Panthers declared, among other things, “The Second Amendment to the Constitution of the United States gives a right to bear arms. We therefore believe that all black people should arm themselves for self-defense.”

On May 2, 1967, Panther boss Bobby Seale led some 20 armed Panthers into the California State Capitol Building in Sacramento, brandishing loaded rifles, shotguns and pistols. They were protesting the Mulford Act, a pending bill that would bar Californians from carrying guns in public or in vehicles.

Police arrested Seale and five others, but pressed no weapons charges. Carrying guns was still legal in California. Prosecutors ended up charging the Panthers only with disturbing the peace.

Young Hillary Rodham supported the Black Panthers. At Yale, she helped defend the New Haven Nine, a group of Panthers who tortured to death a suspected police informant. Hillary worked closely with Panther attorney Charles Garry on the case. She was put in charge of monitoring the Panther trial for civil rights violations.

Despite her work on behalf of the Panthers, Hillary may have developed doubts about their tactics. Her mentor Saul Alinsky had harsh words for Panther gunmen. In his book Rules for Radicals, Alinsky expressed “contempt” for “those who leave their dead comrades and take off for Algeria or other points”.

Alinsky was no pacifist. In Rules for Radicals, he wrote, “The power of a gun may be used to enforce slavery, or to achieve freedom”. He rejected violence for practical reasons, not moral ones.

The problem with America, Alinsky wrote, was that rightwingers had more firepower than leftists. This made violent revolution impractical. “`Power comes out of the barrel of a gun!’ is an absurd rallying cry when the other side has all the guns,” Alinsky admonished his readers.

In Rules for Radicals, Alinsky noted approvingly that Lenin renounced violence upon returning to Russia from exile in April 1917. The Tsar had abdicated, but Social Democrats now controlled the government. Lenin’s Bolsheviks were outnumbered and outgunned.

Alinsky explained, “The essence of Lenin’s speeches during this period was `They have the guns and therefore we are for peace and for reformation through the ballot. When we have the guns then it will be through the bullet’ And it was.”

Lenin did not have to wait long. He siezed power in an armed coup in October 1917.

As long as the right has more guns, the left should oppose guns, Alinsky concluded. Only when the balance of power shifts, and “appropriate weapons” became “available” to the left, should leftists consider turning to violence.

To what extent Senator Clinton adopted Alinsky’s thinking on revolutionary violence we can only guess. However, her policy on guns is clear, whatever her motives may be. She seeks to disarm the American people, while arming herself to the hilt.

Hillary exhorts us to give up our guns for the common good. For herself, she aspires to the Presidency, from which perch she would wield power as America’s top law enforcement official, highest-ranking intelligence officer and commander-in-chief of the mightiest army, navy and air force in the world.

Something about this deal does not strike me as equitable. Or wise.

Scorpiusdeus
January 24, 2008, 12:57 AM
I hate to break up the Hillary bashing party, but you guys need to wise up.

There are liberals who hate guns and even some conservatives.

Like it or not some people actually think guns are dangerous and that your every day citizens aren't capable of dealing with the responsibility of having a firearm. Sadly, many of our fellow gun owners give these anti gun folks plenty of ammunition by doing stupid crap with our firearms. It's just a fact.

I'm a liberal and I LOVE my guns. I know them, I practice with them and I enjoy them, I don't fear them. Some liberals do.

It's not always about Liberals versus conservative, haves versus have nots. Sometimes it's just different stroke for different folks.

I'll fight them at every turn, but I don't always take it personally.

jlbraun
January 24, 2008, 01:02 AM
See my sig.

Zoogster
January 24, 2008, 01:02 AM
Interesting article, and with a lot of good assumptions.
However they are just that, and attributing the beliefs of one person to another based simply on thier relationship is faulty.

Hilary appears to oppose firearms in the hands of most American civilians, left or right.
I would be more inclined to believe she supports confiscation of all firearms outside of government control (though politicly is smart enough never to say that.)
Even if she did believe as the article states, and most firearms are possessed by the right, then working towards disarming all of America would disarm more of the right.

ColinthePilot
January 24, 2008, 01:09 AM
I hate to break up the Hillary bashing party, but you guys need to wise up.

There are liberals who hate guns and even some conservatives.

Like it or not some people actually think guns are dangerous and that your every day citizens aren't capable of dealing with the responsibility of having a firearm. Sadly, many of our fellow gun owners give these anti gun folks plenty of ammunition by doing stupid crap with our firearms. It's just a fact.

I'm a liberal and I LOVE my guns. I know them, I practice with them and I enjoy them, I don't fear them. Some liberals do.

It's not always about Liberals versus conservative, haves versus have nots. Sometimes it's just different stroke for different folks.

I'll fight them at every turn, but I don't always take it personally.

I disagree. Different strokes for different folks implies that those who don't like guns would be ok with me having guns and vice versa. Most of the time, that is not the case. You see it on THR all the time. Many members here want EVERYONE to be armed(within legal and practical limits i.e. fellons, drunks, etc.) and I bet that a similar percentage of folks who don't like guns dont want ANYONE to have them.

Grandpa Shooter
January 24, 2008, 01:12 AM
One, two, three, lockdown. You know it's coming!

Scorpiusdeus
January 24, 2008, 01:14 AM
I disagree. Different strokes for different folks implies that those who don't like guns would be ok with me having guns and vice versa.

Well, I don't think it implies that at all, but o.k. I still don't think Hillary's position is rooted in some desire to keep the peasants in line.

jakemccoy
January 24, 2008, 01:19 AM
It sounds like Hillary hasn't spent any quality time at the range with a knowledgeable, friendly instructor.

XD Fan
January 24, 2008, 01:27 AM
Interesting read. Logic seems faulty. I think Zoogster is spot on.

jhansman
January 24, 2008, 01:30 AM
Sigh. Forgive me for singing the same song again and again, but who the HEdoubletoothpicks cares what Hillary hates or loves? If you want to worry about her restricting your gun rights and access, keep her in the Senate! That's where she and her kind can do the most damage, NOT in the White House. Focus on the courts and legislators; that's where restriction happens.

22-rimfire
January 24, 2008, 08:58 AM
I care what Hillary loves and hates. It is a reflection of her life's experience which has served to construct her character. Since Shumer gets elected in NY, I can easily see why Hillary is popular in the empire state.

RTFM
January 24, 2008, 09:04 AM
I.b.t.l.

2nd 41
January 24, 2008, 09:07 AM
She would throw our guns into the toilet and.......

Firepower!
January 24, 2008, 09:11 AM
I just dont like her period.

Walkalong
January 24, 2008, 09:36 AM
I hate to break up the Hillary bashing party, but you guys need to wise up.
Wise up?. She hates guns. She wants the goverment to run your life. No secrets here.
I still don't think Hillary's position is rooted in some desire to keep the peasants in line.
Of course it is. She is a socialist. She wants big goverment. She thinks she and others can run your life for you and that the slums/stupid people/tragic accidents/etc will go away if smart folks like her are running our lives. She, and others, just don't get the fact that you can not save peole from themselves. She would change who runs things from real world smart, successful, wealthy people to the government full of lazy, often stupid, BS'ers who talk a good game, but that is about it. Our problems will not go away. There will just be different people in charge, and it won't be us.

Dorryn
January 24, 2008, 09:48 AM
In before the lock.

cornman
January 24, 2008, 09:51 AM
She is not a socialist. What matters is what kind of socialism we have. What we have now is a wealfare state for corporations and the wealthy. They make the laws, take your money, and get you to fear legislation that would the nation and the middle and lower classes. Some big gov't things work better most don't. Administration Costs for single payer health care runs around 5%, but under the for profit system we have it is 30-40% We need to stop listening to the corporate owned media and wake up. BTW There is no liberal media! This idea that the major media is liberal was made up by the right wing shill Lee Atwater and he has even said he was supprise how well that lie has worked.

Bitmap
January 24, 2008, 10:04 AM
She is not a socialist. What matters is what kind of socialism we have. What we have now is a wealfare state for corporations and the wealthy. They make the laws, take your money, and get you to fear legislation that would the nation and the middle and lower classes. Some big gov't things work better most don't. Administration Costs for single payer health care runs around 5%, but under the for profit system we have it is 30-40% We need to stop listening to the corporate owned media and wake up. BTW There is no liberal media! This idea that the major media is liberal was made up by the right wing shill Lee Atwater and he has even said he was supprise how well that lie has worked.

Are you kidding?

Dravur
January 24, 2008, 10:12 AM
She is not a socialist. What matters is what kind of socialism we have. What we have now is a wealfare state for corporations and the wealthy. They make the laws, take your money, and get you to fear legislation that would the nation and the middle and lower classes. Some big gov't things work better most don't. Administration Costs for single payer health care runs around 5%, but under the for profit system we have it is 30-40% We need to stop listening to the corporate owned media and wake up. BTW There is no liberal media! This idea that the major media is liberal was made up by the right wing shill Lee Atwater and he has even said he was supprise how well that lie has worked.

So many errors... it is frankly unbelievable. Sometime, take a Macro Econ course and tell me who pays the income taxes in this country, who creates the jobs and where wealth is created.
Also, please look at the costs in the British Health Care system and take a REAL hard look at the inneficiencies and quality of care in their system. Or Canadas

If profit is so bad, why don't we put the food industry or the car industry or the oil companies under government control. After all, it's for the children.

Sheesh

Standing Wolf
January 24, 2008, 10:16 AM
IMO, Hillary doesn't like guns for the same reason most of the left don't like guns: they don't trust commoners.

The leftist extremists' self-appointed mission is to rule us commoners, not trust us.

xjchief
January 24, 2008, 10:28 AM
My take on it is that Hillary and folks like her fear an armed population. It is the last veto power the people have against the government and that fact scares the heck out of people who think the government should control us, not serve us. Beware of anyone who tries to take your gun, they want to take more than that from you. :scrutiny:

NG VI
January 24, 2008, 10:29 AM
the MSM is adamantly anti gun and if you don't believe that then watch the news for a week or two, sooner or later you'll see it

doc540
January 24, 2008, 11:07 AM
Well, she IS married to an avid shooter.

(RIMSHOT!)

Baba Louie
January 24, 2008, 04:06 PM
Ask Vince Foster about guns. Oops. You can't.

Historically, most people in power seem to fear an armed populace. Why should this one particular politician be any different?
"Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom." -- John F. Kennedy
Aahhh. That's better.

MarkDido
January 24, 2008, 06:35 PM
The fact that the Left doesn't like guns when they're out of power, but would when THEY own them isn't too far off the mark.....

The Vote

"Those are our jets now"
-actor Ron Silver commenting on a military flyover during Bill Clinton's 1992 Presidential inauguration

I've never forgotten that quote. Though simple, it said a lot. A party that had been in opposition during 12 years of Reagan/Bush had just assumed control of the executive branch and all its powers, services, and agencies. The jets, soldiers, and weapons of the military, whose buildup had been roundly condemned by Democrats throughout the previous 12 years, was now at the command of Democrat President Bill Clinton. A party, who had been for many years the metaphorical "Back Seat Driver", ever criticism, ever complaining, ever second-guessing, and ever offering up their dime-a-dozen opinions of what they would do differently, had at that moment assumed control of the wheel -it was their turn to drive. Needless to say, the Democrat President used the jets often and well. We know the places where they were visited upon (perhaps many of us have forgotten): Haiti, Somalia, Bosnia, Kosovo, Iraq. A party, whose leaders had been participants in 60's era marches of peace, was, during the 90's, well adept at waging war. The jets had become theirs to command.

mgregg85
January 24, 2008, 06:56 PM
I would never say that hillary is the most blatant gun hater, that title clearly goes to barack hussein obama. He has stated that he wants a national ban on CCW(except for ex military and cops of course), a ban on all semiautomatics and tougher restrictions for those few who still wish to buy a gun.

Omaha-BeenGlockin
January 24, 2008, 06:59 PM
Simple--Communists can't control the surfs until they are disarmed.

Constantine-p89
January 24, 2008, 07:36 PM
I dont like billery at all:neener:

keeleon
January 24, 2008, 07:50 PM
So, if the arguement was "guns are bad as long as the other side controls more", then shouldn't the left be promoting the ownership of guns alongside all of the other beliefs they share? I always thought the "liberals" were for more freedoms and less restrictions on people's rights (a la the ACLU). But since that is very clearly not the case, then I call hogwash on this article.

One of the ladies I work with is what you might call an "anti". She believes firmly that there would be no gun related deaths if there were no guns, and would like to have them all destroyed. She also believes that stupid people will do stupid things no matter what, and that they are responsible for their own actions. So she is not so much an "anti", as she is "a rational human being". She doesn't have to be a gun lover and be armed. She just has to understand that others might want to.

TEDDY
January 24, 2008, 08:12 PM
hillary is a socialist not a liberal.her whole life has been to control.
and whats this exmilitary.I am one and so are 100,000s more.:banghead:

sachmo
January 24, 2008, 08:26 PM
The fact of the matter is there is not a whole lot of difference between either party. We are well into the one world government process, the signs are out there if you care to look. One of the things that the ruling elite needs to do is disarm the citizenry We can hide behind the 2nd amendment for awhile but we all know that we are one 1911 event from having the constitution thrown out the window and martial law declared

Look at Europe and the EU. The process is further along and socialism more developed. In England the government pays snoops to inspect your trash and fines you if you don't recycle properly. Interestingly the British have an immigration problem similar to ours. Large unchecked numbers of foreigners, different culture different language moving in and not being assimilated. The indigenous population is outraged and wants some controls imposed but the GOVT wont do anything about it. The new world order calls for erasing national identity. Sound familure? Many of the people in the 21 or so EU memeber countries do not want to ratify the latest atermpt at a constitution. They want to maintain national identity. The governments however have other ideas.

We are in interesting times right now, Afterall its not every day that you have a ring side seat at watching an empire fall. Like it or not the era of Pax Americanna is over.

Rock
January 24, 2008, 08:29 PM
Why Hillary Hates Guns

Because she is a ****** bag.

rickomatic
January 24, 2008, 08:43 PM
IBhttp://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i84/rickomatic/threadclosed.gif
Sometimes I think it's just a matter of culture. We are slowly but surely losing the "culture" of guns. Which is why it's imperative for us to hand that culture down to our children and grandchildren. As we've moved away from a rural to a more urban culture, the "comfort" of living with and around guns has been disappearing from out country.

takhtakaal
January 24, 2008, 08:49 PM
Why didn't this get stuck in Legal in the first place?

Vote to move.

ArfinGreebly
January 24, 2008, 08:52 PM
Ever so gently . . .

Annnnnnd . . . CUT!

That's a wrap!

Thanks, everyone, you were great!


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