[max popenker]

hello

say, someone will import into USA the following gun:

chamber: 9mm Luger
barrel: 4 1/2 in
weight: about 2.1 lbs empty
mag capacity: 17 (10) cartridges (no preban mags, sorry)

all-steel construction

hammer fired, traditional DA, cocked&locked carry possible; ambi frame-mounted safety

design officialy approved and adopted by Russian Army, replacing venerable Makarov PM in service (which says it all for reliability and strenght)

pistol looks like that:
http://www.baikalinc.ru/ico/prod/hguns/mr443/mr443.gif

would you buy it, and if yes, how much you will be ready to give avay for that (i know that anyoune will like it for 1 buck :cool: )

[Snake Eyes]

Max,

IMHO the Makarov is so popular because it's cheap, reliable, cheap, accurate and low low maintanance. Did I mention cheap? I've paid as little as $99 for a Mak.

This new gun looks nice, but I bet it has a floating barrel, which may or may not be as accurate as the Maks fixed barrel--in other words: a cr@p shoot.

If this gun functions as well as a Mak and is as reliable, I would probably be willing to go $250, maybe even $350 if it fit my hand really well. I don't think I'd pay any more than $350 for a 9mm that you can't get full capacity mags for.

And $550?? Now you're in used Sig 226 territory. It would have to be MIGHTY impressive to get $550.

[New_comer]

Should be priced around the FEG PJK-9HP (another 9mm, all steel BHP-clone) territory, but much less than the equally robust CZ-75...

$250, not a hundred $ more ;)

[9x19]

No sale here... I have no interest in an all-steel 9mm DA.

If I did, there are already lots of S&W 5906s on the market here.

[Ky Larry]

You've described the CZ-75B. New ones sell for about $375-425 around here. :D

[Berg01]

I have a CZ 75B in .40 S&W that I couldn't pass up for the price...
The only steel-framed 9mm that I would want is a BHP, but that is Single Action!

The S&W 5906 that I tried was heavy, unbalanced, and unreliable, but I know people that have the 5906 and the 3913, and love them

[Tamara]

While the spec sheet looks fine, the gun is... well... (How to put this nicely? :uhoh: ) ...er, "aesthetically challenged".

How's the trigger feel? Does the safety fall readily to hand?

[Andrew Wyatt]

is it single stack? 'Cause if i had a choice between wasted space int he magazine and a thin pistol i'd choose the thin pistol.

[chaim]

You know with different sights and grips that might just be a good looking gun. The basic lines are quite reminiscent of the BHP or CZ 75B which are pretty universally praised as ergonomic and pretty. I'd wait for aftermarket grips and sights to be brought to market.

Price? It is Russian so it should be a good solid gun (AK, Mak). If it is reliable and acceptably accurate I'd be willing to go to $300-350. I doubt it would be as nice as the CZ 75B which goes for $400-450 around here but it should be a good gun. If it turns out to be as well made and as, or better, finished v. the CZ I'd rush to get it while it was still priced with its introductory, artifically low, establish some marketshare quick price because it will probably be priced with, or above, the CZ soon (again, assuming good fit and finish as well as function).

[Sean Smith]

I've seen $350 CZ-75B's lately, which have abundant 15-rounders and an established reputation as a quality product. So the Russian upstart would have to be cheaper to get a second look from me.

[New_comer]

By the looks of it, the safety is oriented "down for safe, up for fire". Ala- USP P-8, the German police sidearm.

It would help to price it better if they could come up with a 1911- style "up-safe, down-fire" version. ;)

[MessedUpMike]

Why don't the Russian's start using the dern CZ-75 in the first place? That's pretty much the same gun, but not as good looking.

[matsaleh]

At $250, I'd consider it. I agree that if there are only small-cap mags (10 rnd), then double stack may be wasted space, but I'm praying for the sunsetting of the AWB, and if that happens, maybe the 17 rounders will free up for the market.

I trust Russian design and manufacture. I love my Makarov. It does say something to me if this gun will replace the Mak, if it was chosen on its reliability, accuracy, and quality. I don't care that much about fit and finish, as long as the gun shoots well, carries well, doesn't rust when you care for it properly, and is reasonably priced.

Since I can get a decent carry 9mm for $350 or less (Kel-tec, Bersa, Arcus, RAP, used S&Ws, used CZs, etc.), I would like to see this priced to attract my attention over those other better known models. $250 would at least make the "percieved risk" worth taking.

I am always in the market for inexpensive but well made carry guns (i.e. don't have many, and always want them :) ).

[10-Ring]

Nah, I'll pass. My all steel 9mm niche is spoken for :cool:

[BowStreetRunner]

doesnt float my boat enough to pay more than 250

[Dr.Rob]

First off I don't see the pic.

Second off, I thought the Russians had picked the Grach as their new service pistol? That should be worth $300 or so. (since you can't get magazines over 10 rds)

If the imported mag ban thing goes away, maybe the Grach would mnake it to market. I'd look at one for fun.

[Correia]

Max,

If Baikal is thinking about finding an importer for this gun you are going to need a few things to be successful.

It has got to come in at a price point below the competition. You are coming into a saturated market. You would need to be under the competition to have a chance. I'm thinking $250-$350 depending on features. At that price point you are beating the CZ75. Which I think would be your big competitor. Going $350-$450 puts you up against a ton of really stiff competition. Going higher than that with a product with an unproven track record would be suicide. Of course it all depends on what your production costs are. If you can swing it, you may want to try something like they did with the HS2000. Bring a bunch into the country and sell them for super cheap. Word will spread as people realize how good the guns are, then raise the price.

Americans are going to demand the following. Good trigger. Good sights. Finish that is not butt ugly. Since it is a Russian product I have no doubt that it is going to be tough and reliable. I have guns from Izhmash and Molot and they are great products.

It would help if the frame mounted safety worked like we are use to as well. If the safety works backwards it is going to kill your sales.

One of the things that is really benefitting the Croatian XD here is that the .40 S&W magazines can be made to to work and hold 15 rounds. Also Beretta 92 magazines can be modified. If you could redesign the import version so that it just happened to take some readily available high capacity magazines, that would be a great help to sales.

If you are going to come in to the market strong, be sure to get samples to the gun magazines, as well as holster makers. Good reviews are worth their weight in gold, and having factory holsters already available will also be a help.

Make sure that whomever you make a deal with as an importer is somebody capable of offering good service.

[matsaleh]

Out of curiosity, why is the direction of the safety such an issue? I have a Mak that is down for fire, up for safe, and an S&W 6906 that is the opposite. I'm never confused about which one is which, and on some matters I can be quite the air head. :)

I don't really think there is a standard in the industry, is there? I mean surely 1911s are common, and many have cut their teeth on them, but with any gun, you have to learn its proper function and know how to operate it safely.

For long guns, there is even more variability: sideways pushbutton (which direction?), thumb safety - forward for fire, I think, lever actions - no safety, etc. And handguns - besides the two forms mentioned above, you have the Glock-style (XD is the same?), SIG (no safety - is that right?), and others. I'm no expert on long guns, or any guns for that matter, but that is what I remember from hunting and owning a small handful of rifles, shotguns, and handguns.

If this gun meets my personal purchase criteria: price, accuracy, durability, concealability, and capacity, then the operation of the safety wouldn't matter to me.

Not trying to provoke a religious war here, but I really am curious why the style of safety is an issue (of course, all safeties must fulfill their intended function, but that's a given).

Cheers!

[Correia]

Mat, it might not matter to you or many others, but I'm just pointing out that to break into a market you have to offer pluses and not minuses. You have to think of your market, in this case haveing a safety that works like other familiar guns is a selling point.

The Browning BDM worked backwards, many folks complained about it. The BDM went away.

The Makarov is backwards from a Smith or Beretta (I actually think the Mak down to fire is a lot smarter myself) but the selling point for the Mak is that you could get them for around $100.

[matsaleh]

You have to think of your market, in this case haveing a safety that works like other familiar guns is a selling point.

Oh, certainly I agree with that. And I promise I'm not trying to be confrontational or anything. I'm still learning the ropes myself. I just wondered if the "down for fire" style of operation was really more prevalent than the other way. Maybe with all the 1911-style guns out there, it is.

Anyway, thanks for the response, and cheers!