December 25, 2002, 12:34 PM
Can you sell a long gun in NY ( upstate ) without anypaper work. Private sale that is.
December 25, 2002, 07:44 PM
Well not sure of the law but I have been on both ends of the stick with no papper work as far as long guns are concerend in CNY
December 25, 2002, 08:08 PM
Yeah, me too peatmoss. Wonder of the legality???
December 27, 2002, 11:13 AM
For the time being you can sell your long gun to another individual without going through an FFL or filing paperwork. This could change if the gun control advocates have their way. The following for your consideration.
Newspaper Loophole (http://www.timesunion.com/AspStories/story.asp?storyID=86630&category=FRONTPG&newsdate=12/26/2002)
Gun control advocates ask ban of weapons ads
Albany -- Newspaper classifieds offer loophole from regulations, they say
By ELIZABETH BENJAMIN, Capital bureau
First published: Thursday, December 26, 2002
After failing to convince state lawmakers to regulate the private sale of rifles and shotguns in New York, a gun control advocacy group has trained its sights on what it believes is the primary outlet of these transactions: newspaper classified ads.
"We'd like newspapers to take a step and say, 'We're not going to foster this kind of environment because we have no idea who these people are selling guns to,"' said Andy Pelosi, executive director of New Yorkers Against Gun Violence. "Even though it's not illegal, they're opening up a venue for prohibited people to obtain weapons."
Opponents argue more guns trade hands illegally on the streets than through legal transactions advertised in the state's newspapers. But advocates say newspapers, particularly those that editorialize in favor of gun control, have a responsibility to try to improve the safety of their readers and the communities they cover.
The effort is part of a nationwide campaign to close what gun control advocates dub the "newspaper loophole," which could allow someone who has been rejected for a handgun permit or turned away at a gun show after failing a criminal background check to buy a rifle or shotgun with no record of sale and no questions asked.
Buying a handgun in New York requires a permit, which requires a background check by a local police agency and can take up to a year to obtain. In a private handgun sale, they buyer still needs a permit, and the seller must notify the permitting agency of the transaction.
No permit is needed to buy a rifle or shotgun in New York, although a sweeping gun control law signed in 2000 by Gov. George Pataki mandated background checks of buyers of any firearm sold by dealers at gun shows.
Pelosi's group has drafted legislation to make background checks a prerequisite when rifles and shotguns are resold by private owners in what is known as a "secondary sale." But they have so far failed to find a sponsor in the Democrat-controlled Assembly and are not optimistic about locating one in the Republican-dominated Senate.
When asked why such a law is needed, advocates point to a 1999 incident in Illinois in which Benjamin Smith tried to purchase three guns from a federally licensed dealer, but was rejected after a background check revealed an ex-girlfriend had secured a restraining order against him for domestic violence.
Smith then turned to the classified section of his local newspaper, the Peoria Journal Star, where he found advertised and subsequently purchased two guns -- a .38-caliber semiautomatic handgun and a .22-caliber pistol. Over the next weekend, he used both guns in a shooting spree through Illinois and Indiana. He killed two people and wounded nine others before committing suicide.
No such horror has occurred in New York, and Pelosi and his supporters say they'd like to keep it that way. In response to arguments that rifles and shotguns are most often used for hunting, not violent crimes, they point to the Washington, D.C., sniper case as proof that such weapons can easily be used to kill people.
In an unofficial survey of 23 New York newspapers, New Yorkers Against Gun Violence found that 12 do not accept classified ads for guns of any kind. Eight, including the Times Union, accept classified ads for any type of gun that is legal to sell in New York. Three, including The Daily Gazette in Schenectady, accept ads for rifles and shotguns, but not handguns.
"This has been a Gazette policy for as long as I've been here," said Dan Beck, the paper's assistant general manager and ad director, who has been on the job for 22 years. "We're just real careful about trying to protect the reader and the public... We just feel it's in the best interest of safety and security not to accept handguns."
Times Union Advertising Director Kathleen Hallion said the paper has been contacted by New Yorkers Against Gun Violence, but decided to continue accepting classified ads for guns. The Times Union will run ads for rifles, shotguns and handguns, but not sawed-off shotguns or submachine guns, Hallion said. Every gun ad is reviewed by a manager.
"It's legal to own guns, and therefore, why should we deny the opportunity to advertise something legal?" Hallion said.
At most, the paper runs several gun ads a month and they are not a significant source of revenue, Hallion said. The newspaper -- like any that accepts classified ads -- is not liable if guns or other items advertised in its pages are sold illegally, because the paper is not party to the sale, said Diane Kennedy, president of the New York Newspaper Publishers Association.
"If the government thinks guns shouldn't be advertised, they should ban the sale of guns," Kennedy said. "But, until then, the newspaper shouldn't be a law enforcement agency."
Gun advocates consider the effort to end newspaper ads for guns a further attempt to infringe on their constitutional right to bear arms. They argue that the people advocates are most want to prevent from purchasing guns don't likely buy them legally.
"The only people who are going to be hurt or restricted are the legal and lawful gun owners of New York state, and frankly we're tired of being the scapegoat for everything," said Tom King, president of the New York State Rifle and Pistol Association.
But David Winas, a gun owner who lives in Medusa, Albany County, said he understands the gun control advocates' argument. Winas, 48, recently paid roughly $16 for a two-week classified advertisement in the Times Union in hopes of selling a brand-new Beretta shotgun he won in a raffle.
Although he had not found a buyer by the time this article went to print, Winas said he wanted to sell the gun to a responsible new owner, but knew he wouldn't have much information to go on in making that decision. Winas said he "probably wouldn't be opposed," if newspapers decided not to accept classified ads for guns.
"I'm a gun owner, and I understand that we have rights," Winas said. "But I also realize you have to be careful about who you sell a gun to. After this terrorist deal, believe me, we have to protect against the nuts out there."
December 27, 2002, 12:58 PM
January 2, 2003, 10:14 AM
You can sell a long gun *anywhere* in New York State without going through a dealer. NYC residents who want to register the longarm so that they can keep it within city limits need a bill of sale.
I suggest you provide a bill of sale (and keep a copy) when you sell it, because if you bought the gun new, the 4473 will have *your* name on it.
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