Custom AR15 Buildup


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Zedicus
January 24, 2008, 05:59 PM
Been working on this buildup for a while & would like to get some opinions on it as a good Multi-purpose SHTF Rifle.


Bushmaster Lower Receiver w/ 6 pos TeleStock Assembly
Bushmaster A.R.M.S. Upper Assembly with 16" 1 in 9 twist M4 Style Chrome Lined Barrel & Birdcage Flash Suppressor
Houge Pistol Grip
HB25C-S Harris Bipod with Pitcanny Rail Adapter
x10 Bushmaster 30 Round Magazines
Trijicon TA31DOC Scope
BMAS 3 Rail Gas Block with Folding Sight & Swivel Sling Mount


What do you guys think?

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Soybomb
January 24, 2008, 06:36 PM
Some of the best defensive rounds today are 75gr and those tend to shoot better from 1/7 barrels. Popular opinion is that midlength gas systems are the way to go for 16" guns too just because they're softer shooting for the shooter and the gun. The phantom flash hiders seem much more effective than the old birdcage ones. A non-folding front sight tends to not bother people as much as they thought it would and its always there and ready to be used.

blackhawk2000
January 24, 2008, 07:15 PM
Bushmaster Lower Receiver w/ 6 pos TeleStock Assembly----Stag is much cheaper, and as good, if not better quality.

Bushmaster A.R.M.S. Upper Assembly with 16" 1 in 9 twist M4 Style Chrome Lined Barrel & Birdcage Flash Suppressor----Their are much better options than ARMS. Might as well go with the better midlength gas too. Stick with 1:7. Spend the money you saved on Stag, on a better FH, like Phantom or Vortex. Go with an upper with M4 feeds ramps too. Might not really be needed, but certainly won't hurt. Make sure the barrel is cut for them too.

Houge Pistol Grip----GTG

HB25C-S Harris Bipod with Pitcanny Rail Adapter----Don't see a need for bipod. You can easily get hits on people, at any legal distance without one. Plus it adds a lot of weight, for something seldom used.

x10 Bushmaster 30 Round Magazines----Way overpriced. Stick with a mag that has a USGI contract, and not just made to USGI specs. Okay Ind. gets my vote.

Trijicon TA31DOC Scope----Trijicon makes good stuff.


BMAS 3 Rail Gas Block with Folding Sight & Swivel Sling Mount----Stick with the standard front sight/gas block. It doesn't get in the way of the scopes view.

Zedicus
January 24, 2008, 08:01 PM
x10 Bushmaster 30 Round Magazines----Way overpriced.
at $20 ea?

Bushmaster A.R.M.S. Upper Assembly with 16" 1 in 9 twist M4 Style Chrome Lined Barrel & Birdcage Flash Suppressor----Their are much better options than ARMS.

Care to name some?

working on modified list

JHansenAK47
January 24, 2008, 08:21 PM
Go with a c product mag or something with a magpul follower.
http://www.cproductsllc.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=cp&Category_Code=30ss
http://www.cdnninvestments.com/ar230pamawno.html

Bartholomew Roberts
January 24, 2008, 08:30 PM
Bushmaster Lower Receiver w/ 6 pos TeleStock Assembly

A good practical stock assembly; but remember that it doesn't weigh much. The rig you have outlined is fairly chunky and a lot of that weight is forward of the barrel nut making it a bit nose-heavy and awkward. I actually like heavier stocks in these situations because even though they add more weight, they make up for it with better balance and handling. A SOPMOD or Vltor stock with batteries inside or a Magpul UBR would be helpful for this.

Bushmaster A.R.M.S. Upper Assembly with 16" 1 in 9 twist M4 Style Chrome Lined Barrel & Birdcage Flash Suppressor

Which ARMS SIR rail are they offering? There is the older SIR that yokes to the top rail. That is going to raise the height of your ACOG mount as well as add a good chunk of weight to the rifle (the old SIR is a very hefty system because of the top rail weight).

There is a newer model SIR that does not have a top rail yoke and gives a same-height uninterrupted top rail. I haven't had a chance to look at it, so it might no be a bad deal.

What are you looking for in a rail system? Do you need the uninterrupted top rail of the SIR? Did you want the "rails where I want them and not where I don't" feature? Did you like the part-polymer handguard? Knowing what you like about the system will help in recommending alternatives.

On the 1:9 barrel, it is probably not going to stabilize the heavier 70gr+ stuff. None of the Bushmaster 16" 1:9 barrels I've seen do well with heavier/longer bullets although theoretically you may get lucky. If you don't plan to use those rounds, then not a big deal.

HB25C-S Harris Bipod with Pitcanny Rail Adapter

TangoDown has a nice lightweight bipod if you want to add a bipod. I've been using a Grippod myself and it is nice on occasion; but that is a lot of weight mounted forward on an already nose-heavy setup.

Trijicon TA31DOC Scope

Neat rig; but the red dot is noticeably higher than the cheek weld for the TA31. I didn't think this was such a big deal until I actually got to try one. It does feel a bit awkward and weird; but it is mostly a personal preference thing.

So those are my thoughts on it (biased by my own personal preferences). Everything else looks GTG to me.

blackhawk2000
January 24, 2008, 09:46 PM
Quote:
x10 Bushmaster 30 Round Magazines----Way overpriced.

at $20 ea?

http://www.44mag.com/prodinfo.asp?number=DH30B
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/AR-15-Magazines-p/magazines%20dh%20bt30.htm
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/Magpul-PMAG-AR15-Magazine-p/magpul%20pmag%2030%20black.htm

To name a few. Buy a 10 pack, and save even more money. 10 mags per rifle, is the minimum I keep for SHTF rifles.


Quote:
Bushmaster A.R.M.S. Upper Assembly with 16" 1 in 9 twist M4 Style Chrome Lined Barrel & Birdcage Flash Suppressor----Their are much better options than ARMS.

Care to name some?

working on modified list

Larue, and Daniel Defense in that order. There are many more to choose from too.


If you have your heart set on BM, then by all means go with them. For the money though you can do just as good, or better quality wise.

Zedicus
January 24, 2008, 09:48 PM
Which ARMS SIR rail are they offering?

The 50M-CV (Newer one)

What are you looking for in a rail system? Do you need the uninterrupted top rail of the SIR?
Not Needed, but I do like the design.
Did you want the "rails where I want them and not where I don't" feature?
Yep!
Did you like the part-polymer handguard?
Undecided on that one.

A SOPMOD or Vltor stock with batteries inside or a Magpul UBR would be helpful for this.

Had no idea the Bushmaster one was so light, and I do like heaver balanced guns.

On the 1:9 barrel, it is probably not going to stabilize the heavier 70gr+ stuff. None of the Bushmaster 16" 1:9 barrels I've seen do well with heavier/longer bullets although theoretically you may get lucky. If you don't plan to use those rounds, then not a big deal.

Any recommendations on a Good 1 in 7 Chrome lined 16" M4 style barrel then?
(or should I go for the 20"?)

TangoDown has a nice lightweight bipod if you want to add a bipod. I've been using a Grippod myself and it is nice on occasion; but that is a lot of weight mounted forward on an already nose-heavy setup.

It's not going to always be mounted.

Neat rig; but the red dot is noticeably higher than the cheek weld for the TA31. I didn't think this was such a big deal until I actually got to try one. It does feel a bit awkward and weird; but it is mostly a personal preference thing.

Do you mean the Reflex sight?
And would the TA01NSN-DOC be a better choice then?

blackhawk2000
January 24, 2008, 10:02 PM
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=185553&highlight=TA11%20ACOG

Scoll down to Zak Smith's post. The guy knows his optics.

Bartholomew Roberts
January 24, 2008, 11:00 PM
The 50M-CV (Newer one)

I haven't got to play with that one; but it looks like a good system. ARMS claims 8.6oz. I believe the standard M4 double heat-shield handguards weigh 8.3oz. Since you can lose the delta ring, you might even gain a few ounces. The older ARMS SIR were a lot heavier (about twice that or more).

I haven't gotten to play with that one; but it looks sharp and if you want both an uninterrupted top rail and rails only where you want them, I think that rail may be your only option. Loctite everything with screws though or it will come loose.

Had no idea the Bushmaster one was so light, and I do like heaver balanced guns.

It isn't that the Bushmaster one is so light as much as it is that after you had optics, bipod, etc. the rifle just naturally gets nose-heavy. A counterweight in the back helps. For a plain, iron sighted M4, the enhanced six-pos telestock is just right.

Any recommendations on a Good 1 in 7 Chrome lined 16" M4 style barrel then? (or should I go for the 20"?)

Bushmaster has them once in a blue moon. I'd ask them about it if you plan to buy from them. If you are looking at other manufacturers, then CMMG, Sabre Defence, Bravo Co., Global Tactical and several others offer a variety of 1:7 barrels. Also, I've had good luck with Armalite 1:9s handling the heavier stuff well.

If you aren't real tied to the M4 barrel and carbine gas system, I'd also consider a light or medium weight midlength 16" barrel from any of the same manufacturers I just listed.

Do you mean the Reflex sight?
And would the TA01NSN-DOC be a better choice then?

Yes, the Docter Optic red dot on top of the ACOG is way up there. It isn't just a slight raise of your head; but a definite cheek weld change. I've gotten use to a tight cheekweld so I found that awkward. The Doc is parallax-free so it doesn't make a practical difference; but I am just not real comfortable about mixing in two different cheekwelds into my training since both irons and scopes require a solid, repeatable cheekweld to be effective. It was one of those things I thought I was really going to like so I was surprised when I finally got to try it and discovered I didn't care for it.

The TA31DOC is better than the TA01NSNDOC in my opinion. The TA01NSN has the partially illuminated amber reticle that disappears in some lighting conditions at dusk and dawn. The TA31DOC has a red illuminated full reticle.

For the "do everything" optic, I really think the TA11 ACOG or 1-4x variables are the way to go. A lot of it is personal preference though. Some people love the Doc-ACOG combo.

ckay
January 24, 2008, 11:21 PM
For a SHTF, I'd go with an EOTech. Quicker target acquisition.

jhark123
January 24, 2008, 11:26 PM
for shtf you would go with an optic that only lasts 1000 hrs to a battery? I would go with an aimpoint or ta11.

Zedicus
January 25, 2008, 12:07 AM
Quicker than this?

http://www.trijicon.com/parts/TA31DOC-2web.jpg

ckay
January 25, 2008, 12:36 AM
LOL, nah...that's a nice piece of glass man. Great choice...

Zedicus
January 25, 2008, 01:19 AM
Another plus is it dosn't use battery's that can go dead.

ckay
January 25, 2008, 01:21 AM
What powers the Docter?

Zedicus
January 25, 2008, 01:40 AM
Not sure, webpage says squat about that.
http://www.trijicon.com/user/parts/products1.cfm?PartID=544

Edit: Found this http://www.gunblast.com/Trijicon_ACOG-Docter.htm

it's Powered by a 2032 lithium battery

Kurt_D
January 25, 2008, 01:44 AM
1) Bushmaster Lower Receiver w/ 6 pos TeleStock Assembly - Good to go. I'm assuming you have a rifle/lower already; if not, as someone else mentioned, there are cheaper options like Stag, etc.

2) Bushmaster A.R.M.S. Upper Assembly with 16" 1 in 9 twist M4 Style Chrome Lined Barrel & Birdcage Flash Suppressor - First: twist, if your SHTF stash is 55 and 62 gr ammo then 1:9 is good to go. If your stash will be 75 and 77 then go 1:7. Bushmaster has barrels with both, check stocking vendors like PKfirearms. Second: profile, for something you're going to pack you may want a lighter profile or maybe a 14.5 M4 with perm Phanton hider (about 1 inch shorter and a little lighter than a 16" with A2). This will also shift the balance to the rear. Once again, PKfirearms stocks a Bushmaster 1:7 or 1:9 twist "superlight" (A1) barrels. Third: Rail, SIR is ok but a freefloat set-up isn't really necessary in a SHTF carbine. If you want to save money toward ammo/optics/mags then maybe check the Midwest two piece rail (~$130), they work well for flashlights, bi-pods, grips, etc. If you must lock up tight then you can find KAC RAS for $190-$230 on AR15.com's EE (depending on condition and included accessaries). Forth: Don't forget a BUIS, an ARMS #40 (A2,SP,L,whatever) is inexpensive and good to go.

3) Houge Pistol Grip - I like them, good to go.

4) HB25C-S Harris Bipod with Pitcanny Rail Adapter - Not necessary, just extra weight out front, but that's up to you. I'd rather have a grip and light; matter of fact, you need AT LEAST a light. Look at Pentagon or a TLR-1 if you don't want to pay for a Surefire.

5) x10 Bushmaster 30 Round Magazines - Save money and buy another brand. Bushmaster mags are actually made by D&H (older) or C-products (newer) anyway, why pay $20 for a mag you can get for $10? I personally prefer D&H.

6) Trijicon TA31DOC Scope - Nothing wrong here other than you could save a little with a TA31F and use a BUIS.

7) BMAS 3 Rail Gas Block with Folding Sight & Swivel Sling Mount - Skip this. Stick with the standard front sight base and use the money toward a light/optics/ammo. Maybe get the standard M4 front sling swivel (for MI rail or KAC) or a rail mounted swivel (for SIR). Matter of fact, if you where to get the ARMS SIR and used that BMAS gas block with a swivel you'd be defeating the purpose of the freefloat rail.

Just to recap: A light is very necessary, got to see what you're shooting at. Make sure you have plently of batteries. Order a box on-line, don't waste time and money buying 123A batteries at Wal-mart. A Backup Iron Sight is very necessary too. ACOGs, although rare, can fail (and if you get the one with Doc Optics reddot get batteries for it too). Murphy is a bitch. A standard FSB is more simple, lighter and more durable than a flip-up, gas block thing. Weight is a issue if you're going to be packing the rifle around any distance, so I'd skip the bi-pod.

Zedicus
January 25, 2008, 01:51 AM
No I don't have a Lower Already, and Stag's website only sells Full Rifles & Uppers.

How much cheaper/better are we talking about anyway?
impact Guns sells the Bushmaster Lower Assembly mentioned for $297

Kurt_D
January 25, 2008, 02:21 AM
I wouldn't say Stag is better than Bushy. You biggest savings would be the striped lower itself. Stag runs $99-$109, Bushy runs $139-$149 so maybe $30-$40 total if you shop around and/or assemble yourself.

Here's a pic of my SHTF carbine:
http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/4605/img5316fd2.jpg

Bushmaster patrolman's carbine (16" M4 1:9 twist)
EOtech 512 - easier for me to bring to bare fast
ARMS #40 A2 - defaults to large ring to bring to bare fast
MI rail - it's tight enough for the light and grip
Pentagon 9V weapons light w/ pressure switch
Tango Down grip
Hogue grip
3-point sling - easier to pack around and bring up fast

Over all the gun is light enough to pack around. In a Katrina type event you won't be packing the gun rather you'll be cleaning up. It's set-up where I can grab it form the 4 wheeler/truck/prop and everything's ready to go. AA lithium batteries give the EOtech a long life. 1:9 works for me as my long term SHTF stash is 55gr 5.56 (XM193 and Q3131) but my rifle works well with 77gr MK262 5.56 as well so my intial go to load is 3 mags of this. Not all 1:9s work with 75-77gr though (it's trail and error); so since you're building form scratch, if you plan to use them, I'd go 1:7.

Zedicus
January 25, 2008, 03:30 AM
Hm, CMMG Can do one way cheaper than Bushy can.


CMMG 16” M4 Carbine

Ergo Rubberized Grip Upgrade
JP Trigger Upgrade
Winter Trigger Guard Upgrade
Oversized KNS Hammer/Trigger Pins
Tungsten Buffer
VLTOR MUR w/Shell Deflectorand Bolt Assist
LMT Enhanced Bolt and Carrier Group
Extended/Polished Ramps
A2 Post
F Marked Front Sight Base
Round Forward Assist
LaRue Carbine Length Handguards

$1,873.70

Zach S
January 25, 2008, 03:33 AM
I like my CMMG upper. I plan on building a lightweight middy for the lady using a CMMG upper.

Too bad they dont offer lightweight dissys. No big deal, I can make one.

Zak Smith
January 26, 2008, 01:35 AM
re: optics, consider the arguments made here (or see the expanded version in the 4 FEB Shotgun News):


http://demigodllc.com/photo/PRM-2006.11/icon/D100_5378_img.jpg
article | Fighting Optics - A Short Guide http://demigodllc.com/icon/extwh3.png (http://demigodllc.com/articles/fighting-carbine-optics-short-guide)

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