[ReadyontheRight]

OK -- In the promo for "Peacemakers" on the USA network, Tom Berenger looks like he plays an old West Sheriff or Marshall.

He loads what looks like .45 long colt rounds into a revolver and SPINS THE CYLINDER like in a DA revolver. I've never handled a Colt Peacemaker or any SA revolver -- does the cylinder spin, or are they already being historically inaccurate in the commercial?

Other than that, I hope it's a good show. A good new Western would be great.

[Hkmp5sd]

Don't know about the Colt Peacemaker itself, but on SA revolvers, you can pull the hammer back slightly and spin the cylinder.

[Archie]

In the loading position, the cylinder will turn freely in one direction only, clockwise. The hand acts as a ratchet to stop anti-clockwise rotation. That is in fact how they are loaded, one hole (chamber) at a time.

[Double Maduro]

In order to leave an empty chamber under the hammer I heard that you load one then skip one and keep going until you have 5 rounds loaded.

Anyone else hear this and does it work?

DM

[Hkmp5sd]

Anyone else hear this and does it work?

It is unnecessary. Just load the five cartridges and rotate the cylinder around before releasing the hammer.

[ReadyontheRight]

Sorry guys. I always thought SA revolvers were a lot more difficult to load. I'l have to check one out.

Again, I hope it's a good show.

[rick newland]

Hkmp5sd the colts don't work that way, you would still have to bring the hammer all the way back which would rotate the cy and you would place the hammer on a live round. Bring hammer back to second notch, load one, skip one, load five, cock hammer all the way back then ride it down on an empty chamer.

[Hkmp5sd]

the cylinder will turn freely in one direction only, clockwise.

Actually, that's not true for all revolvers. It depends on the manufacturer. Some rotate in one direction and others in the opposite direction.

Hkmp5sd the colts don't work that way,

That's why I said, "not sure about the Colt...." :) I have never owned a Colt revolver.

[rick newland]

I messed that up, load one, skip one, load four, pull hammer back then ease it down, it will be on an empty chamber.

[Mal H]

I just watched 1/2 hour of it and had the choice of falling asleep from boredom or turning to Hannity and Colmes. H&C won.

[FPrice]

It's not an old-fashioned western but it is pretty good. I've always liked Tom Berenger and I think this is going to be a good show.

[Dr.Rob]

CSI meets Gunsmoke. Shoot'em up was limited to berenger shooting the gun out of a guy's hand (ugh) though he looked suprised as if "how the heck did that happen" could have been a call back to his first western, Rustler's Rhapsody. Next gunplay was a dissgrunted pistol shot out of his hand rapist re-entering bar, Winchester blazing. (From the hip). Of course the stalwart Brit guy flicks a knife intothe guy from 20 feet away. (Ugh)

Later, Berenger is tie up and ready to be dragged behind a horse along rail tracks (yay) but he is saved in the nick of time by a well intentioned black irregular 'deputy' with a mean looking sawed-off shotgun (yay). Berenger dispatches third guy with his own knife. (ouch)

Some later fisticuffs ensue, and Berenger shoots at a guy on a moving train with a handgun (where did my rifle go?)

All in all, a lighthearted attempt at giving Marshall Dillon a Dr. Watson. Not too bad, but not great. Lots of shows start slow.

[six 4 sure]

I think anything is better than the reality crap that dominates the other channels. I didn’t think it was too bad.

six

[rick newland]

Thought it was more of a CSI/In the heat of the night show, fancy detective comes to the aid of hick town marshall. I agree better then most of the crap on tv.

[Jeff Timm]

Am I the only one around here who remembers Hec Ramsey?

http://us.imdb.com/Title?0068077

Richard Boone (ex-Paladin) and Rick Lentz.

The old guy Boone, was the scientific detective and Lentz was the modern Police Chief with little real experience. Good show, but Boones health didn't hold up.

Geoff
Who carefully noted the short barrel .45 Peacemaker.

[Norm357]

I liked the show and was ammused by Tom Berrengers shoulder holster.


Norm

[Hkmp5sd]

Am I the only one around here who remembers Hec Ramsey?

Nope. Used to love that show.

[cslinger]

It was a little slow at the start and in the long run I don't think it will last but I found it pretty enjoyable. I mean it's no history lesson but the concept is fun and I liked how they showed both the Pinkerton's skills vs. the Marshalls skills and how both had merit.

I also liked the fact that the double barrel shotgun only shot TWICE:what: and that the single actions never fired more than 4 rounds. Now that might change in later episodes where gunfights may be more prevalent but hey it was a good start.

Now as for the guy with the lever action not being able to hit anything at say 20', I'm gonna have to say he must have been drunk........really drunk.......like falling down, blurry eyed, bordering on coma drunk. I mean come on four or five rounds and he hits nothing but the wall in a crowded bar. I guess that was really my only pet peeve, I just think they could have written that scene better.

I think there is some chemistry between the three main characters and that is good for a first episode.

All in all I give it a thumbs up. Fun escapism and who doesn't like a little single action army action now and then.:D

Did you notice in the standoff at the beginning of the episode the guy they arrest as a suspect doesn't have his hamemr back on his gun. Wonder if this was an error or done on purpose to try and show that he really wasn't out to hurt anybody. Yeah yeah I know it was an accident.

Chris

[Waitone]

Lemme see here! Show is set in 1880's IIRC mountain states about the time scientific investigation techniques come into play.

So the way show designers emphasize the historical setting is play Miami Vice back ground music!

Come on guys! Change the music. It distracted from the plot (which does need a little work).

[Correia]

I liked it and figure it has potential.

But then again I don't expect History Channel accuracy on a USA network detective/cowboy show. Come on guys, lighten up a bit! :D

[longeyes]

Okay, I know nothing about single-action revolvers. Is it possible
to shoot by fanning the hammer with your weak hand with a single-
action or is that Hollywood stuff?

[cslinger]

Fanning.

Yes you can fan a single action revolver and let me tell you it can empty six rounds faster than a semi auto with the right gun and right operator.

Apparently the new guns with transfer bars are not designed for this at all but I don't exactly know why nor have I thought to look into it.

I don't fan my Single Action, I would probably end up shooting somebody or something I didn't want to. I have seen people who can do it and do it well.

Come to think of it, think Bob Mundan. The man is insane with a Single Action. Parlor tricks or not the man can run a single action faster than a blink of an eye.

Chris

[Alan Smithiee]

you can fan a SA like that, but you can't hit the wall 3 feet in front of you. watch how the top CAS shooters do it, left thumb works the hammer, left fingers around right hand around grip (and variants there of)

and with Colt Army style SA's you have to half cock, load one, skip one, load four to come down on a a empty chamber, with Rugers and other you can open the gate and load 5 with the hammer down to have it down on a empty chamber (and you don't HAVE to do that if you have the new model Rugers with the transfer safety bar (but it never hurts), but thats not CAS legal, but we do load up with 6 when carrying Rugers for hunting or other reasons


(and while double checking the load sequence, I noticed that the screws holding the grip to the frame were loose, so let THAT be a lesson as well)

[Mute]

Not bad for a TV show and better than most of the crap available nowadays.

[JDSlack]

Norm 357,

What amused you about the shoulder holster? Just curious, not flaming.

It looked to me to be similar to the one J. Wesly Hardin supposedly wore. From my reading about some gunmen in the post civil war West several wore them (an early NYC reload), Hardin, Holliday Studemire among others.

And THANK YOU, Mr. Timm, I have been trying to remember Hec Ramsey for over a week. You have restored my sanity....well, sorta.

[Hkmp5sd]

I taped the show the other night and finally got around to watching it. It's pretty good. Guess that means they will cancel it soon.

[FPrice]

"...could have been a call back to his first western, Rustler's Rhapsody."

Now, I thought that I was the only one who remembered that show. I am trying to find a copy of it but no luck so far.

I think the show has potential. But given today's values, I only give it a season or two. However I will enjoy it as long as it's on.

[Abenaki]

Cslinger

Yes you can fan a single action with a transfer bar.
I have done it with a Ruger Blackhawk.
Just hold the trigger back and don't release it.

I have seen pictures of old Colts that had the trigger held back with
a few raps of wire. Not some thing that I would like to do.

If you practice alot you can get good with fanning a gun.
On the old Colts it was hard on the spring.....they could break.

I always worried about getting a squib stuck in the barrel and firing
an other right behind it.

Legend has it that in a smoke filled bar, fanning also had the advantage
of creating a (black powder) smoke cloud that would help you get the
heck outa there in one piece. Like I said "legend" has it. Not sure if there
is much truth in that at all.

Abenaki

[Snake Eyes]

Now as for the guy with the lever action not being able to hit anything at say 20', I'm gonna have to say he must have been drunk...(edit)...I mean come on four or five rounds and he hits nothing but the wall in a crowded bar. I guess that was really my only pet peeve, I just think they could have written that scene better.

I'm curious: Was he firing from the hip? I ask because I'm not sure I could hit anything firing a lever-action rifle from the hip. I don't know because I've never fired such a rifle. I would like to think that in 4-5 rounds I could walk my fire into a man-sized target, but I don't know--what's the recoil like??

I suppose there are members here that could shoot a lever action firing rifle caliber rounds from their hip and hit 5 for 5. (Aside--There are members here that can do all sorts of amazing things. And some are so amazing that I'd have to see them do it to believe it. Not saying they can't--In fact I hope they can!! If they can, there's hope for me learning to do "it").

The stories told to me by my Grandfather led me to believe real cowboys weren't necessarily all that proficient with their guns--At least in terms of SASS style gun fighting. Not saying there weren't gunfighters in the old west--just that most people, including lawmen, weren't. Kind of like present-day people. Also, I've been told (TIFWIW) that the "real" cowboys carried mostly .44's and .45's. Not loaded-down, low-recoil .38s like a lot of SASS shooters (again, so I've been told--all hearsay--willing to learn and admit if I'm mistaken). The lever guns my Texas relatives told me about were all at least 30-30. Several of them told me that was the minimum saddle gun for killing a S. Texas Javelina. I don't think they carried any pistol caliber carbines. So I would think that would have a pretty good jump trying to shoot offhand from the hip--no butt stabilization or lean-in.

( Another aside: My maternal Grandfather grew up in the Carrizo Springs and Corpus Christi areas in Texas. They were loosely related to the owners of The King Ranch, but his family was poor and mostly worked for other ranchers, when they had work. When there wasn't any work they weren't above running a few head of--unbranded--cattle they "found" on the south side of the Rio Grande back up to their ranch and selling them off. My Grandfather and his brother were the last of 4+ generations of cowboys, although he only did it himself as a pre-teen. By the time he was 14 the "new" cowboys were oilrig rough necks and he went to work driving a truck. He said it paid better and he got to sleep in a bed a whole lot more. His brother went on to sell parts to wildcatters and became very wealthy. While my grandfather never made a fortune in cash, he was rich in many, many other ways--some of which he passed on to me and still serve me well.)

My Grandfather said most cowboys worked too darn hard, doing too much other stuff, to become very good shooters. Too many other chores/responsibilities to waste time practicing something that wasn't going to earn them any money. Sure, they could shoot a snake with a handgun, drop a Javelina or other predator with a rifle--but they were aimed, slow shots for the most part--not "quick draws".

My Grandfather was an excellent shot, but he never talked much about shooting. After WWII he had really had enough of guns--as far as know he didn't own a firearm from the time he got back from WWII until 1979 or '80

(About that time--I was 15 or 16--I was snooping around in his clothes closet and found a .17(? .177?) pellet gun. I also found his stash of dirty magazines--I was shocked-- and his hideout money. I am ashamed to say I took some of his money, and proud to say I felt so guilty about doing him that wrong that I returned it within a few days. I didn't have the best "moral compass" but it functioned sometimes. I don't think He ever knew, but I still remember it 20++ years later--a gift he gave me and he didn't even know it. I don't steal anymore)

I heard a story about him shooting the head off a rattlesnake that was encroaching on my aunts’ ranch in New Mexico--one shot with a .22. And I saw him kill several raccoons with one shot (each) from a 22. Pretty impressive stuff to a small boy who only saw guns on TV--I started thinking My Granddad was a REAL cowboy!

(Unfortunately he never taught me about shooting or guns--we grew up mostly in the city and he didn't "see a need" for guns in the city--this was the yellow dog Democrat, Texas liberal side of my family--so I got my first gun when I was 33, not 13. Dang! Yet another aside! This post is getting way long!)

He would say "Go get Sam Munn's (our neighbor) 22 and ONE bullet. My mom would question him and he'd say "I only need ONE!” I was never allowed to go get the gun. It HAD to be an adult. The last time I saw him shoot a 'coon he was had pretty advanced Alzheimer’s and we were scared to death of him with a gun. But he insisted, and you didn't ever win with him when he set his mind to something. I don't think any of us believed he could make the shot in his condition--the 'coon was 20-25 feet up a fir tree, in the branches--but I'll be darned if he didn't kill it cleanly. (BTW--this was at our country house on Whidbey Island. He wasn't shooting raccoons in the middle of Seattle!)

Anyway, sorry this got so long. I started to reminisce about my Grandfather and just typed it all down. I sure miss him. He's been gone about 7 years. I wish we'd had time for him to teach me about shooting, but I guess that's how it always is--You don't think it's important at the time, and impossible to go back for when you realize how important it is.

I started out here to say I don't think it's unrealistic to miss 4-5 times with a lever gun. What I ended up with is this: If you've got grandkids, go get 'em right now and teach 'em something that they'll never forget. You may be the last one in your family that knows this thing or knows how to do that thing.

(Last Aside I promise: The stuff you teach them doesn't have to be JUST shooting! Pass along all the little tricks you learned through your life. One of the best things my Grandfather ever taught me was "Wear your name tag on your left lapel and hold your drink in you LEFT hand. This way when you shake hands with some one they can naturally see your name, and your hand isn't all cold and clammy." Simple, eh? But how do you learn it? If some old, cagey politic-er (??) doesn't tell you, you'll go around and no one will know your name and they'll just remember your clammy, wet handshake! Not a good impression!)


We will all pass out of this life, but your legacy will live in those kids and they'll love and cherish you for it.



(I just read this over and added even more. I know it's not really relevant to this thread, but hopefully some one will get something out of it. If the Mods want to move it--feel free. If for some odd reason you find this kind of stuff interesting, drop me a pm--I might start a thread with stories of my Grandfather and his family. My Grandmother wrote a history of the Gardner (his) family that she finished just before she passed. I should read it anyway! BTW--This IS NOT another aside--You can tell because it's not Italicized!)

[cslinger]

Well I am by no means "The Rifleman" but I can hit a man sized target from the hip with a pistol caliber lever action in about 3 rounds. That aside I really wasn't talking about his ability to hit his intended target as much as I was talking about the fact that the bar was crowded and nobody got hit.

They also make mention that he was in the Civil War with blah blah blah, so I would assume he would have some basic skills with a shootin' iron.

I'm just being picky. I just felt it was bad writing. You are right though he was shooting from the hip and maybe he was just hitting high and since I have never shot at anything but a nice safe piece of paper or lonely clay bird I was able to calmly say to myself adjust your fire. I guess if I was under risk of return fire I'd probably shoot like a mad man too.:D

[Norm357]

Hi JDslack, I knew shoulder holsters were around back then, but you hardly ever see them used on t.v..

Norm

[MrAcheson]

The guy with the lever action had just been shot in his good right hand by Berrenger earlier in the scene. You can see the bandage wrapped around his hand at one point after he re-enters firing the rifle. So he was shooting from the hip and shooting off-handed (he was working the lever with his left hand if you notice). Kinda explains why he couldn't hit anything, doesn't it?

[cslinger]

I see said the blind man, you have a valid point about the hand.

Ya know we are analyzing this way too much.

I liked it. I will watch again.

Chris

[Alan Smithiee]

well, CAS uses downloaded rounds for safety, 1000 FPS and less for pistol, 1400 FPS and lower for rifle, and the rifle has to be in a pistol caliber.

and there is no such thing as a target so big and so close that you can't miss it. :neener: