[XD-40 Shooter]

I've fired about 2500 rounds of mild 357 handloads out of this gun over the last 1.5 years or so, today while I was shooting it, I noticed after about the 3rd cylinder of ammo, that the forcing cone was cracked clean through!:eek::mad: I'm thinking since I have a lifetime warranty on this gun, they owe me a revolver.:D I'm pretty sure this is non-repairable. They can't prove I've been shooting handloads in it either, nor are my handloads "hot" by any means. I load on the minimum side of the scale.

Here's a pic....this thing is toast.:mad:

[VonFatman]

I hope you have another gun to shoot because I have NEVER heard of anything even close to a quick turn-a-round when guns were returned Taurus for repair or replacement...
This information coming from several dealers who dread dealing with Taurus warranty issues.

Good luck!

Bob

[evan price]

A new barrel should fix that lickety-split. Good luck.

[MCgunner]

Had the same thing happen to my M10 Smith and Wesson and found a new heavy barrel 4" in Shotgun News for like 50 bucks. No warranty, 60s era gun. Gunsmith charged me a few bucks to fit it and I've been shootin' happy ever since. Mine cracked at the bottom where Smith and Wesson K frames had a flat on the barrel. It's a rather notorious weak spot on the .357s, but mine is the only K frame M10 I've ever heard of splitting, and while shooting wadcutters, no less! I never fired really hot stuff in that gun.. Oh, well, still a good gun and I really like the balance of the heavy barrel, good improvement over the pencil barrel.

[MrTuffPaws]

Wow, sorry to hear that. I wish you luck on a speedy return from Taurus, because you most likely ain't going to get it.

[shooter429]

2,500 rounds of light loads? If that were a 686 or GP100, that'd be called a break-in period, instead of breakdown period. ***?
If it were me and my gun, I would send it in to be repared and buy a quality revolver from Ruger or S&W to cover you during the wait. And lst time that happened to me it was more than 2 month wait. Then sell the POS and enjoy a good gun.

Shooter429

[dbarale]

That sucks! That's also a lot of erosion on that forcing cone.
Do you mind sharing your load with us? Pwoder, bullet, etc.

[357wheelgunner]

WHen I was shopping for my first revolver, a quick search of the 'net turned up numerous threads similar to this one. I've shot 10K rounds or so through my few S&W revolvers and they're just broken in, instead of broken.

I hope they fix your gun.

[The Lone Haranguer]

It needs a new barrel, for sure.

[MM]

Yeah, you can just LIE to them regarding the handloads part...
MM

[XD-40 Shooter]

9 grains of Unique, 125 grain Remington SJHP, I've chrono'd them at 1300-1350 fps, not a full house load by any means. The minimum in my Lee 2nd edition book is 8.7 grains. This load was very accurate, while it lasted.

Shooter429, I have the same thought. I'm going to send the gun back to Taurus, get it repaired. Meanwhile, I've already started looking for a Ruger SP-101 in a three inch barrel. When I get the Taurus back, I'm going to dump it off at the next gun show. I'm pretty sure I won't face these types of problems from a Ruger.

[TallPine]

That seems like a fairly hot load to me, not that it should make any difference.

I guess I'm a wimp - I load my 38/357 target rounds with 5 grains/158 LSWC. The .45 LC rounds get 10 grains (Ruger) which is two pulls on the handle - works nice that way ;)

[Mr.Revolverguy]

8.7 may be the minimal in your manuals but in mine the max's are

9.7
9.6
9.5

I think you are right you MAY not have this issue with a S&W or a Ruger but I have never been a fan of the 125gr bullet only 140 and up for me.

[19-3Ben]

I like the fact that in the picture you are pointing the gun at the reloading book.
Dr. Freud please come to the revolver forum.

[XD-40 Shooter]

Any 357 revolver worth its weight should be able to handle a steady diet of magnum loads and Taurus aint it.:neener:

Jeff Quinn mentions in his review that the SP-101 is built like a "bank vault", a steady diet of magnums is no problem for these.

[sandy4570]

This is suck ,they replaced my model 82 with the tracker couple of months ago (all I paid was $175) and I fed mine steady diet of 125 grain jacket hollow point from Remington and Hornaday ever since I hope mine doesn't crack like that because the gunstore owner is not going to like sending the gun back to Taurus a second time.:o:mad:

[9x19sig]

I'm not sure if it's just my eyes and the lighting, but that looks like serious erosion on the forcing cone. That crack would of probably happened sooner or later if the forcing cone is eroded as it looks in the picture, IMHO. Let's just hope this is a fluke seeing that many people own Taurus revolvers and rely on them for protection.

[MrTuffPaws]

I'm not sure if it's just my eyes and the lighting, but that looks like serious erosion on the forcing cone. That crack would of probably happened sooner or later if the forcing cone is eroded as it looks in the picture, IMHO. Let's just hope this is a fluke seeing that many people own Taurus revolvers and rely on them for protection.

Ya know, it does look like the forcing cone is eroded. Rather badly.

[dbarale]

9 grains of Unique, 125 grain Remington SJHP, I've chrono'd them at 1300-1350 fps, not a full house load by any means. The minimum in my Lee 2nd edition book is 8.7 grains. This load was very accurate, while it lasted.


The load is within specs, Alliant's website lists 9.6gr as max for a jacketed 125.
I think the problem is the 125 part, they are known to cause forcing cone erosion and cracking on S&W K frames and, apparently, same is true for the Trackers.
When it comes back with its new barrel I would suggest switching to 158gr.

[Will5A1]

XD-40 - as noted by some of the other posters it looks like there is notable erosion on the forcing cone, is there any flame cutting on the top strap? I couldn't see any on the picture, but the angle may be hiding it.

I had to send an M85 with bad alignment back to Taurus twice but they did get it correctly fixed the second time, each trip to their service department took about 4 weeks. I think they will make it good, and most likely this is a fluke.

[shooter429]

What I need is a good, solid, beefy American made .357 that will handle my handloads and outlast the Taurii. So I bought a Model 60 J-frame last night :rolleyes:

Seriously did. :)

Shooter429

[pwrtool45]

Unique is a fast burning powder, you're putting it under a lightweight bullet, and you're using magnum charges of it. Ignoring the break, the erosion along the circumference of the forcing cone should be enough to tell you something is wrong. I'd be willing to bet you've got some pretty egregious topstrap cutting on that revolver as well.

I had a friend burn out the forcing cone of his 586 doing almost exactly what you're doing. The same thing would happen to a GP100 or even a .357 Redhawk. There's no magic in American steel that makes it immune to burnout. In the latter (extreme) case, your .357 Redhawk would be technically safe to fire longer (since the parts in question are much bigger/thicker), but having a burned out forcing cone (and barrel throat, most likely) isn't going to be great for accuracy. Magnum revolver cartridges need to be reloaded with slower burning powders. Save the fast stuff for .38 Specials.

Light bullets and fast powders mean more of the charge is burning in the b/c gap than it would if you were using a heavier bullet or a slower powder (all else being equal). That means more hot gas is burning in your b/c gap, eroding your forcing cone and flame cutting your topstrap, because the bullet accelerated more quickly than normal in getting to the barrel, but once it's there, the rate of acceleration diminishes due to substantially increased friction. So regardless of the cause (light bullet, faster powder) you've got the bullet (seemingly) "stalling" as it moves into the barrel, and all that hot gas burning itself up prematurely.

[MCgunner]

Smith and Wesson is okay, for an overpriced revolver. I have three Taurus revolvers I often carry, all very good quality. I sold a M19 that didn't shoot near as well. To each his own. I bought a 3" old 80s vintage M66 that has been fired so much with hot loads, the back of the pachmayr gripper that was on it was worn flat, no more "checkering" in the rubber. It shoots great, tight, times perfect, no problems. Got that revolver at a gun show for 180 bucks. So long as the Smith snobs ignore 'em, the price will stay low, so thank you very much for your prejudice! I own Rugers, Tauri, a Smith, and Rossis. I don't keep bad shooter. They're all good guns. I have a 4" M66 nickel Taurus that is so accurate, I wouldn't trade it for 10 Smith and Wesson 19s. It outshoots the 19s I've ever fired and it doesn't have that flat spot on the bottom of the forcing cone. I can't imagine it would crack as quick as a K frame with sane loads in it. Me, I shoot a lot of 158 gas checked SWC over 14.5 grains 2400, no problems.

I have a little SP101 and I have a 3" M66 Taurus. Comparing them, the Taurus is only marginally heavier, carries and extra round, is a little more accurate, and carries just as easily. Only thing, the little SP101 is stainless and I LOVE that Hogue's round butt profile I put on it. Either gun is an excellent carry. Lately, I've been totin' the Taurus. It's got a lot of holster wear from a past life, anyway, so the bluing doesn't concern me.

Anyone wants to match up on pepper poppers with their smith, bring it on.

[Onmilo]

I have returned many Taurus revolvers for warranty repair.
In some cases they can repair the damage, in some cases they replace the revolver.
It is best to send them through a dealer instead of as an individual, it seems to speed up the process.
If the revolver is replaced by Taurus, you will have to fill out a new 4473 and all that happy stuff.

[XD-40 Shooter]

I'm hoping to get a replacement out of this deal, keep my fingers crossed.:D If Taurus does in fact give me a new revolver, then I'm going to keep my 38 spl to magnum ratio at 50:10. 10 magnums for every 50 38 specials. I will also be switching to 158 grain bullets, most likely with Blue Dot. That should prevent any future problems such as this. I like the Tracker in reality, its a very fine shooting, accurate revolver with some nice features, the ribber grips, 7 shot cylinder and barrel porting to name three. I just wish they were built a little tougher, but oh well. I've learned my lesson the hard way, no steady diet of magnums in small frame revolvers, except for the SP-101.:D

By the way, I don't have very much flame cutting on the top strap, its in pretty good shape.

[MCgunner]

Blue dot is still a little fast for efficiency in my experience. I'd go 2400, H110, WW296, AA#9 (very good powder), something a tad slower burning for best efficiency in the caliber and no stress on the forcing cone, especially with the heavy bullets. 140 is my carry, speer JHP. 17 grains 2400 behind it. My 14.5 2400/158SWC load is sort of an all purpose load for range practice and I've killed several deer with it. I do shoot a lot more .38s in my .357s, even my SP101, than magnums, cheaper and easier on the hand. Mostly, I shoot a 148 cast wadcutter and 2.7 grains bullseye, but I also have a 158 SWC/5.0 grains Unique load I shoot a lot for minimal +P practice. It's accurate and I don't have to make a sight adjustment on my 3" M66 for it. Gives you a little more whop on the hand, yet isn't as abrasive as plinkin' 100 rounds of full house magnums.

Ruger's Blackhawks (I have two) are about as strong as a revolver can get, well, short of an X frame or Freedom Arms. They came out with the .357 Maximum in that revolver and forcing cones MELTED under the stress. LOL They quickly dropped the caliber and it's just a footnote in history, now.

[Mr.Revolverguy]

I get the point MCGunner is trying to make but most use the powders he has mentioned to duplicate full house factory loads. I have found bluedot to be a great powder for midrange loads. But if under midrange not all the powder will burn even with magnum primers.

HS-6 meters great and it is all I use for 357 140gr and 158gr bullets. If I do not have hs6 handy I am sure to have bluedot and will confidently use it. I have a model 65 with thousands of rounds through it by me. Without my log book handy I would say I think it is about 5000 give or take a few. Now I bought this model 65 used and you know it is an older one and was carried by a police officer who retired and sold it to me. I am not sure how many he put through it and it is surely an older model as it has a pinned barrel and recessed cylinder. But it has no forcing cone erosion at all and still going strong and locks up very tight. The retiring LE that sold it to me said only 158grainers were put through it and he purchased it new. The side plate has never been off of it either.

The forcing cone erosion on yours looks very severe to me. I have a taurus tracker 7 shot but it only has about 2000 rounds through it of 357 and 38 and out of all my revolvers it is the most accurate and I have a few performance center models. Well I should say it is the one I shoot most accurately. And to date no forcing cone erosion. But I do crimp moderatly to try and get a full burn of powder which I believe helps also.

[bakert]

pwrtool has it right. The 125 gr bullet and near max charges of a relatively fast burning powder is one of the loads that is hardest on .357 forcing cones. Might not have cracked in another gun but probably would have eroded the forcing cone badly enough for some smoothing or maybe even recutting.

[tinygnat219]

Send it in, don't tell them about your handloads, and it will be fixed... in time.

[shooter429]

what are you talking about. JK! But seriously, for slightly less than max, AA9 is the very best in the .357, in my experience, but Blue Dot is a good reduced load choice too. I run 296 in the hottest loads though.


As to S&W being overpriced, I agree. Ruger is the value leader, IIMHO. I am no engineer (thank your lucky stars) all I know is anecdotal from hundreds of guns over a 20 year span. I Have owned and shot all 3 brands and known plenty of others who have and the ones that stand up are the heavy large-frame Rugers, then N-frame Smiths then lighter frame Smiths. Taurus revolvers fail a lot more in my experience. Period.

Although the Taurus guns have improved of late, I do not think they are nearly as good as S&W or Ruger, and I do not think anyone can compare them with a straight face. I could not. This might be a good time to have a couple of us put our money where our brand loyalties lie.

My custom Redhawk against anybody's Tracker torture test. :neener:

Or how about one of those hot $200 Rossi revolvers against a GP100?:uhoh:

Shooter429

[Elm Creek Smith]

My custom Redhawk against anybody's Tracker torture test.

Or how about one of those hot $200 Rossi revolvers against a GP100?

Sure, right after you run your Honda CRV against my Hummer H1 Turbodiesel in the Baja 1000. Or maybe on an Iron Bottom run with your Vespa against my Harley Softtail Springer. Sheesh.

Any 357 revolver worth its weight should be able to handle a steady diet of magnum loads and Taurus aint it.

Neither are K-Frame S&Ws which is why the brought out the L-Frames.

ECS

[MCgunner]

I like my Rugers, but they're heavy. My SP101 is stronger than any K frame Smith or medium frame Taurus, so what? I can shoot my 4" Taurus a lot better and it's much more accurate with its longer sight radius. The GP100 is supposed to fit the K frame niche, but it's a porker, way heavy to carry. As Elm says, apples and oranges. K frames and medium frame guns like the Taurus are for carrying. My 4" 66 is amazingly accurate. I plan to perhaps hunt squirrel with it using wadcutters. It fires little 1" 25 yard groups with 'em, more accurate than I can shoot it with iron sights, no doubt. I've killed two deer with my Blackhawk. I'll put that Blackhawk against any redhawk for strength and it's a lot lighter on the hip. I can't carry it, concealed, though, and I can my 66.

Whatever, I ain't sellin' my medium frame guns. I think they're a great compromise for carry to the N frames,, even better for carry than L frames, just don't feed 'em crazy loads as a regular diet. Even the Redhawk and Blackhawk are subject to forcing cone erosion, strength of the frame has absolutely nothing to do with it. Just look at the .357 Maximum for proof. The K frame Smiths have a flat spot on the bottom of the forcing cone that is notorious as a weak spot. I had it split on my M10 shooting .38s! Had to rebarrel the gun. I still have the gun and there is no way I'm getting rid of my M10. I stuck a heavy barrel on it and it'll probably last another 20 years of heavy shooting with .38s, though I don't shoot it near as much as I used to. I used to shoot a lot of local matches with it, won a few, good shootin' old gun, but not quite as accurate as my 4" Taurus.

Hey, stuff happens with medium frame revolvers. I accept that. To use the motorcycle analogy again, I had to put head gaskets in my 1983 Honda Gold Wing, too, a month ago. They're good bikes, but stuff happens. And, if you abuse stuff, it happens more often.

[44and45]

More trash brain thoughts from the anti crowd, using 9.0 grains of Unique with a 125 grain bullet is not very smart on an extended period of shooting.

Though some here, have tried to explain that...it doesn't seem to soak into the moronic prejudice following who continue to climb onto the bash Taurus crowd, but its OK if it happens to a S&W...they are always forgiven.

This rhetoric is sickening to someone who has some honestly in their outlook on firearms. Been a shooter for about 60 years...how long have you bashers been at it.

Jim

[Mikeo]

More trash brain thoughts from the anti crowd, using 9.0 grains of Unique with a 125 grain bullet is not very smart on an extended period of shooting.

Though some here, have tried to explain that...it doesn't seem to soak into the moronic prejudice following who continue to climb onto the bash Taurus crowd, but its OK if it happens to a S&W...they are always forgiven.

This rhetoric is sickening to someone who has some honestly in their outlook on firearms. Been a shooter for about 60 years...how long have you bashers been at it.

Jim

Hear, hear.
I remember the flame cutting information on the Model 19 back in the late 70s/early 80s. Specifically, 125 gr and lower sized bullets up against fast burning powders.
Of course, S&W made the 586/686, with a beefier setup, but nobody said to trash the model 19/66, etc. It was 'know what to shoot in your gun, and so be it.'
I remember because I had a model 19 and listened to the info. 140 gr speer behind H110 or WW296 was my choice. The same would go with the Taurus. Anyone thinking differently is sorely mistaken, and anyone thinking of, or suggesting to LIE to Taurus about what was shot in the gun is not only dishonest, but despicable.
But, if you do decide to lie, don't trash the gun or gunmaker for your stupidity.

[XD-40 Shooter]

I'm not trashing anything, I learned my lesson the hard way. I fired 2500rounds of a hot 357 mag load and beat the gun down, its my fault. The fact that it held up as long as it did, probably says a lot. I don't consider it lying to hide the fact that I was using handloads that were IN SPEC for 357 mag, according to my Lee 2nd Edition book. How's the gunsmith in Florida going to know what I was shooting in it. Would it have made any difference if it was 2500 rounds of factory Remington 125's? I DOUBT IT. The velocity on those factory 125's is probably 1400 fps +, mine were only clocking 1300-1350 fps. IF Taurus replaces my gun, I'll be shooting a lot more 38's in it, switching to 158 grain bullets in my magnum loads, and using a powder no faster than Blue Dot.

I mentioned in my previous post that I like my Tracker, its a very accurate, good shooting gun, with nice features. I don't know where you get the "trashing" aspect. I realize it might take 3 months for them to repair or replace my gun, because is commonly stated that Taurus customer service sucks, but oh well, I'll wait.:D

[Lucky Strike]

I've got a tracker in .22 on order and coming soon (hopefully)......i wouldn't think this would be an issue with the little .22, at least i hope not.

[Mr.Revolverguy]

I really only see one person bashing Taurus or what I would call bashing at least. The rest are pointing out the mistakes that were made by the loader. I have 3 taurus in my safe and up to this time they have been flawless.

I do have to say that the bashing on Taurus's customer service seems to be warranted though. It seems everyone does acknowledge the very long turn arounds. I think if it weren't because of that they would be more popular than what they are, at least in my book.

[XD-40 Shooter]

I just checked the manual on my Tracker, it states that the revolver is "rated" for 158 grain loads at 1485 fps.:what: I can't even get there with my handloads, the best I have been able to achieve is 1300 fps with a full load of 296. Does this mean the gun should stand up to a steady diet of 158 grain magnum loads?

Also, Taurus builds this same frame in the 41 magnum and 44 magnum. I think I would question the long term durability of this gun in 44 magnum.:scrutiny:

[George Hill]

Call Taurus, don't mention reloads, they should fix it with no problem.

[Crazy4nitro]

Heres My Outlook as I like 125's and Healthy doses of H-110 (W296).......which i know is not a "Fast" powder but the same applies.

If and when I ever have that issue in my guns. (whatever the Brand) I will simply send it in for warranty,buy a new Barrel or buy a new gun.....If the gun stands up to many thousands of my Handloads then I'm Happy. I dont want my Forcing cone to erode but I dont care if it does. All my other guns that arent Magnums get reduced loads shot through them.
My Taurus .41Mag gets it's fair share of Full Tilt loads and so far it has stood the test. It's not the fault of Taurus if I Knowingly use a combo of bullet and powder that it known to accelerate wear.

Happy Shooting everyone.

'Nitro

[44and45]

XD-40 Shooter, I've checked some of my loading manuals too.

The best recomendation for .357 revolver would be the Hodgdon's 125 grain jacketed HP bullet using 10.0 grains of HS6 powder that will push 1,542 fps velocity at a mere 34,800 CUP. Though I really doubt that quote. Plus, I wouldn't load my gun that hot even if it could reach that mark.

I've had good results with this powder, its low pressure rates are quite gentle compared to Unique.

Also on Unique powder loads for that bullet, cannot find in any of my books that go over 8.0 to 8.5 grains of Unique powder for the .357 loads.

But a little later I ran across a more modern loading book from Alliant Powders that list a maximum 9.6 Unique with 125 grain Jacketed bullet = 1.585 fps velocity at a mere 33,800 CUP.

However, a more sensible load would be 125 grain jacketed bullet 8.5 grains of HS6 powder = 1,222 fps velocity at a real low pressure 18,600 CUP.

One other book mentions a 121 grain cast bullet in No. 2 cast mix, using 8.5 grains = 1,387 fps velocity and gives no CUP reading.

It would be to the good of all concerned if you didn't go for nuclear load detonations...regardless of what your broshure or books say. Work with what is safe for the gun and you...and others standing nearby.

Anyone can buy a gun or reloading tools, its how you use it determines if you are headed into the twilight zone.

Best rule of thumb on maximum loads is to check the CUP rates, stay in the low thrity thousand zone with the right kind of powder, avoid high pressure stuff going into 40K plus zone.

Better luck next time.


Jim

[Ratshooter]

My first center fire revolver was a S&W model 19. I cracked the forcing cone on it with my too hot handloads. I didn't really understand the fast powder/slow powder thing. My forcing cone cracked at 3 o'clock by the way.

This was no fault of the gun but entirerly mine. I have since learned better. I now have a 66-1 and normally shoot midrange loads. I like 6.6 grs of Unique with a 158 gr SWC Lasercast or my Lee 158 tumble lube bullets. This shoots around 1100 fps and matches the old 38/44 loads of the 1930s.

I have a Taurus 44 tracker 4" and have shot full power loads but there again the lighter loads between 800 and a 1000 fps are what get shot the most.

I sold a Taurus 66 to a friend years ago and the frame cracked by the barrel. Taurus replaced the gun and did it in just a couple of weeks.

[Cougfan2]

You know, from the looks of that forcing cone it appears like the timing may have been screwed and it wasn't locking up correctly. Is there significant wear on the hand?

[MCgunner]

If it was that far out of time, I doubt it could hit a pie plate at 15 yards.

[RJM]

It looks like a new barrel, properly fitted would clear that little problem right up.

[Mr.Revolverguy]

Heres My Outlook as I like 125's and Healthy doses of H-110 (W296).......which i know is not slow powder but the same applies.

Crazy4nitro why do you say h110 is not a slow powder. I know it is 71 on the powder burn rate chart but I always thought for a pistol powder it was on the slow side.
71. H110 (Hodgdon)

[MCgunner]

H110, 296, 2400, all slow handgun powders. AA#9 is a little faster, but still a slow powder for handguns.

[shooter429]

As I recall,they limit you to "standard" loads even in magnums and warn against lighter bullets and heavier loads. Sorry, but a .357 should not be limited to 158 Gr. factory loads nor should 240s be the limit in a .44. They put the limits there cuz there guns cannot stand up to the rigoures that make Ruger famous. I am not bashing, but telling it like it is. If I had several bad Hyundai Accents and upon finding out another had broken down and knowing that they have poor resale etc., I told you that your Hyundai Accent is not as fast, or agile or reliable as a my BMW 330i, and would therefore recommend the BMW over the Hyundai, would I be bashing or being honest? Are we doing anybody any favors by telling them their Hyundai will outpace and outlast a BMW. No. Sell that junker and invest in a quality car.

It boils down to being honest. Kinda like reporters that warn of lead paint in Chinese toys. I would rather be honest, and tell people of the dangers with Chinese toys, than try to cover up the truth to make people who own lead-painted toys feel better, while the Chinese toy companies continue to profit from the deaths of children. Think about it.

Shooter429

[MCgunner]

I've seen rugers with flame cut frames and burned out forcing cones. I own 7 Rugers, but they're not infallible. I've got 3 Taurus revolvers. I've had no more problems with them that the Rugers, zero problems with either.

Ruger builds a few nice models, but their variety SUX. They have NO equivalent to the J frame. I own an SP101, heavy as hell, not a pocket revolver. Smith and Wesson and Taurus build smaller, lighter, more appropriate revolvers for carry and pocket carry. The .357 mag ones are not as strong nor can they stand up to as many hot .357 loads as an SP101, but a J frame in your pocket beats an SP101 at home. I like my SP101, but I own better carry guns. My M85UL can go everywhere in a pocket, only 17 ounces. Rugers are strong, no doubt, but sometimes they over do it. The Security Six was dumped when the GP100 came out. That's a shame because it was a strong design and K frame light. I had one. Yeah, I shot it a little loose over the years and they didn't last forever with hot loads, IMHO not as strong a design as the SP101, but there was no reason to get rid of it. It had its niche. If you like Ruger and nothing else, you don't have a lot of variety in your revolver choices. Smith and Taurus offer just about a revolver for EVERY possible use and CCW is an important market that Ruger has ignored over the years to their own loss IMHO.

Oh, you can have your over-priced POS BMW, I'll keep my reliable, low maintenance Toyota, thanks.

[1KPerDay]

I have NEVER heard of anything even close to a quick turn-a-round when guns were returned Taurus for repair or replacement...

They took care of me quickly but it was just to fix a rear sight on a PT101AF... which broke again...

[Crazy4nitro]

"Crazy4nitro why do you say h110 is not a slow powder. I know it is 71 on the powder burn rate chart but I always thought for a pistol powder it was on the slow side.
71. H110 (Hodgdon)"

Your right......I mis-typed while my brain was in play and my fingers were in Fast-forward......

replace "Slow" with Fast....

hehe
Thx for pointing it out..

'Nitro

[aaronrkelly]

Onmilo said:

I have returned many Taurus revolvers for warranty repair.
In some cases they can repair the damage, in some cases they replace the revolver.
It is best to send them through a dealer instead of as an individual, it seems to speed up the process.
If the revolver is replaced by Taurus, you will have to fill out a new 4473 and all that happy stuff.


I had Taurus replace two of their guns with brand new ones (back when I would buy a Taurus, no more!) - each time the new gun, with a different serial number was sent directly to my door. Other manufacturers have done the same as well.

When a manufacturer replace a firearm that was sent to them for service they do not need to send it to an FFL, it can be returned directly to the individual. Perfectly legal, happens all the time.

[shooter429]

My point was that there are differences in quality between brands. How many of us bought Jennings and steadfastly refused to accept that the $40 guns were something other than cheap throwaways? And I love my Toyota just fine, it is the Hyundai that has problems, but it was just a metaphor. As a general rule, Ruger revolvers and Smith and Wesson revolvers hold up better or are more highly polished than the Taurus revolvers, in my experience. Why keep buying trouble when you have a choice?

Shooter429

[XD-40 Shooter]

Update :

Today I boxed up the revolver with all the required paperwork, took it down to my local dealer, they are shipping it next day air to Taurus. We'll see what happens, If I get a new gun out of this, I'll be thrilled. I will also be shooting far more light 38 special loads in it, and light 357 mag loads as well. By light, I mean 6 grains of Unique behind a 125 grain plated, that shouldn't hurt anything long term.

I've learned my lesson with this one.:D

[shooter429]

I never had a dealer do that for me. Sounds like they are at least standing behind what they sell. Nice. Hopefully all will go well.
Let us know how it goes.

Shooter429

[VonFatman]

XD-40 Shooter,
Good luck! I hope you get a fast turn-a-round. I'm impressed with the way you have reacted and grown through this process. Many a shooter would bluster through this experience and ignore the facts. You have learned from all this and will modify your behavior to make your next/repaired gun last.

You are the kind of shooter I like to shoot with!

Bob

[MCgunner]

Why keep buying trouble when you have a choice?

I've got three Taurus revolvers and have owned three Smiths and have had more trouble with the Smiths. I cracked a forcing cone on the M10, had to rebarrel it. I just wasn't impressed with the accuracy of the 19, and the 1917 was a wore out POS. My 66s outshoot that 19. I sold the 19, kept the 66s. I'm quite impressed with the quality of MY Tauri, that's why I may buy more in the future. They sure as HELL are NO JENNINGS!

BTW, I own 7 Rugers, 4 of which are revolvers. Personally, I'll likely never buy another Smith unless I get a 642. Most of 'em are overpriced. The Rugers are bargains, well built, strong. The Tauri are bargains, well built, strong as a Smith if not a Ruger, backed by a lifetime warranty. I WILL check any of 'em out, won't buy sight unseen. And, any more, I really prefer to buy used.

[PAshooter1]

I bought a brand new Taurus 608 this past December. On my 4th shot (I only wish my 1500th) the barrel exploded off the gun and ended up 40yards down range. :eek: After further inspection, the frame was now bent. Not bent before firing, I did inspect. Being stupid like I am, I called Taurus and they apologized and told me to send it right away and they would get a new one out immediately. Over a month later, they tell me they won't even look at it for a few more weeks. :cuss: I had a trigger problem a few years ago with a Ruger, sent it off and got it back repaired in 2 weeks with an apology. And that gun I bought USED!! I don't want special treatment, but it was BRAND NEW!! And EXPLODED in my hand!! You'd think they'd try to save a customer on such a strange mishap (I hope.) :banghead:

[shooter429]

Were the Smiths used, worn when you got them? Just curious. If they were new, I would be really surprised. I just went and spent several hours looking at Taurus revolvers along side several Smiths and I came away totally convinced that my previous experience is still relevant and the Smiths still have much better fit, finish, and actions than the Taurii. Compare for yourself. Pick up a Model 60 or 637 try the action, look at the fit of parts etc. then look at the Taurii 605 or look at S&W TRR8 and compare to the Tracker. I am glad you are being well served by yours, but I cannot conceed on this point. We'll just have to agree to disagree About the Smith and agree totally about the awesome value that are Ruger wheelies. :)

Thanks for the dialogue and happy shooting

Shooter429

[MCgunner]

The 1917 was, not the 10 or the 19. 19 was bought new. I had a Security Six at the time that was not so accurate with .38 and was looking to improve. Not a thing wrong with either gun, I just wanted better than 3-4" accuracy off a rest at 25 yards with .38. Both guns were better with magnum loads and this is NOT unusual for a .357 chambered gun to be mediocre with .38 loads. My search was for the perfect trail gun, accurate enough for small game, accurate with powerful loads for larger game and defense against larger animals. The Taurus shoots .38 or .357 into an inch (it's favorite loads) at 25 yards. It satisfies this need. It is tight, times perfect, shoots where I point it, cannot imagine a better .357 DA for the purpose, so I take it over anything I've owned previous. I have one other .357 caliber gun as accurate, a 6.5" Blackhawk. It's a little large for all day hiking comfort, but I used to carry it before I got the Taurus and my 4 5/8 stainless .45 Blackhawk (which is amazingly accurate, too). If I'm hiking black bear country, sometimes I figure the added bulk of the .45 is worth it, but I really think even in black bear country, the .357 is plenty and chances of a bear attack are much less than those of a human attack even out in remote mountains.

That 1917 was ordered surplus. Now, I don't buy sight unseen. It was so bad a shape (NRA good, wow) that it was not shootable. I had a smith tune it up, but sold it eventually.

You can laud the fit and finish of the Smith, but in my experience, Taurus 66s shoot as good or better for a lot less money. I have a friend with a beautiful 6" 686 stainless that shoots as good as my best Taurus, but I paid a lot less money.

So long as there are Smith snobs, used Tauri will remain the bargains of the gun shows, so I don't really resent the bashing. I hit the shows a while back looking for a 2.5-3" (yeah, get real) K frame Smith 19 or 66 (wanted adjustable sights, but probably would have taken a M13 if I could have found a bargain) and found prices similar to new. I wound up with a nice shooting older Taurus 66 3" for $180. Works for me, don't expect you to understand or care. But, to blanket say that any Taurus is equivalent to a pot metal Jennings? Well, I couldn't let that one go. You know, there are those that insist Ruger is a POS and not in a league with Smith and Wesson. Well, okay, if that's your opinion, but just as with Taurus, that has NOT been my experience. I've got a SP101, had a Security Six, have two blackhawks, an Old Army, and two P guns in addition to a 10/22. I'm a Ruger guy, too, or I could say Ruger is my favorite. Just that they don't have a K frame equivalent anymore since they dumped the Security/Service Six line and there is no lightweight .38 equivalent to my M85SSUL. The SP101 is a wonderful gun, powerful, shootable, but for me it's no pocket gun. The one gun Smith and Wesson builds that is affordable fits that niche well, the 642, but my Taurus has a better DA trigger and I like having a hammer spur. But, I'd own a 642 and may some day, lock or no lock. They are well priced and still have the typical Smith fit and finish.

I suppose you think Chuck Hawes is full of it? I read this link with interest, but skepticism. But, I have noticed many gun firms have quality issues from time to time as their management morphs. I love my Remington rifles, but right now, I think Remington is in a down cycle.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/smith-wesson_dark.htm

[4v50 Gary]

Do let us know whether they will replace the barrel.

[TonyB]

Ok.....I've had good luck w/ the taurus warrentee....they replace 3 magazines when they could've just replaced the base plates..I never had to send a gun back though.I've had great luck w/ taurus though.I did however have to send my s/w 642 back to smith after 400 rounds(of standard 38's).It did come back after 4 days though....but it goes to show you that sometimes machines break.Even "brand named "things too.

[shooter429]

I am intrigued by the ferver with which some defend their brand of choice. Marketing departments are obviously doing a great job. As to MCgunner and other Taurus cheerleaders, I must say that I respect your decision to stand behind your gun's brand, even though my experiences have been vastly different than yours. I just hope that Taurus customer service has improved as of late.

I again took the liberty to actually handle and shoot some more Taurus revolvers again, and can say that still nothing has changed. The 605 I shot felt as though something was dragging on the hammer as it would seem to catch, part way through the trigger stroke, taking two hands to pull it through the cycle. The action was rough with one out of five shots landing several inches outside the group with every group. The .357 Tracker did much better, and was not a half-bad shooting gun, but it too lacked a smooth double action pull, although the single -action pull was fairly crisp and light. I would compare the weight of the trigger to a GP100, still not close to S&W but not horrible as the 605 was.

I came away willing to concede that they are not as bad as Jennings, and if you get a good specimine, they fill a niche in the lower price range. They are much less expensive than the guns that I am used to shooting, and I guess in that regard, I should cut them a little slack. I would consider recommending them to someone who was really strapped for cash, and or new to firearms, but I would caution everyone that they really do vary a lot from one specimen to the next, so make sure the gun you try and settle on is the exact gun you purchase, serial number for serial number.

Okay, I am gunna give it a rest now.

Take care and safe shooting

Shooter429

[Master Blaster]

I am intrigued by the ferver with which some defend their brand of choice. Marketing departments are obviously doing a great job. As to MCgunner and other Taurus cheerleaders, I must say that I respect your decision to stand behind your gun's brand, even though my experiences have been vastly different than yours. I just hope that Taurus customer service has improved as of late.



It amazes me at the fervor with which some folks attack other folks choices, as though their ego was unable to survive somone else choosing something different.

[shooter429]

I am not attacking anyone's anything, and I am not invested in S&W, nor will I feel bad if someone ignores my advice, though I offer it with the intent of helping them make good choices. I simply endeavor to help members become aware of possible pitfalls with the purchase and ownership of certain brands and models of guns.

My goal in writing about these problems in the forums is simply to warn members of the problematic nature of certain products. As you must know by now, I speak up about other problem products such as S&Ws Sigma series as I become aware of them. I just cannot understand why someone would have a brand loyalty that is so strong that they get upset by members enumerating problems with their pet brand.

Shooter429

[ZeSpectre]

I'm with shooter429.
These days I try to gently dissuade folks from purchasing Taurus anything, ESPECIALLY if we're discussing a self defense firearm, because I've seen way too many failures.

On one level this a safety issue in terms of a CCW that may not work when you need it but of far more importance is that I've also seen far too many postings (with photo evidence) and real life examples of -catastrophic- failures or failures that would have been catastrophic had someone not noticed an issue while inspecting the firearm.

Still in the end folks will make their own choice and that I leave firmly up to them.

[jwxspoon]

I own many different brands of weapons and have many taurus's among them. I've not had any problems with my taurus weapons. In fact, the only weapon I've ever had a factory return type of problem was a high end Smith & Wesson revolver. Go figure.

jw

[44and45]

This has nothing to do with ego, but with protecting members

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am not attacking anyone's anything, and I am not invested in S&W, nor will I feel bad if someone ignores my advice, though I offer it with the intent of helping them make good choices. I simply endeavor to help members become aware of possible pitfalls with the purchase and ownership of certain brands and models of guns.

My goal in writing about these problems in the forums is simply to warn members of the problematic nature of certain products. As you must know by now, I speak up about other problem products such as S&Ws Sigma series as I become aware of them. I just cannot understand why someone would have a brand loyalty that is so strong that they get upset by members enumerating problems with their pet brand.

Shooter429

=========================================================

Shooter429, please don't be upset with those you are upsetting with your negative gun buying bias.

In the immortal words of Rodney King, "...can't we all just get along..."

Thank you.

Jim

[MCgunner]

Well, me too, had a M10 split a forcing cone. Had that happened in a fight, I'd have been screwed, but I don't think all that less of the gun for it. Stuff happens. Had a firing pin break on a Rossi. I got it fixed. Good reason to carry back up, I reckon, even for a revolver. If something DOES break on a revolver, its usually not just a "tap/rack/bang" type of deal. And, it can happen to a Smith, too, did to me.

Now, I'm thinking about getting another .380. I'd been thinking Kel Tec P3AT, love my P11, many rounds through it, into five figures and never a bobble. But, now, Ruger is coming out with a similar pocket gun and, boy, the Kel Tec abuse is firing up. It's almost as bad as Taurus bashing and they can't use the customer service thing because KT has the best in the industry, better than Smith and much better than Ruger. But, I like Ruger. I think I'll just sit back and see if Ruger comes out with a stainless model. That could be the tie breaker.

Yesterday I had to drive to Houston. I carried a Kel Tec P11 in my pocket and a Taurus M85UL on my ankle and felt perfectly well protected. Some of the folks here had rather go un-armed, I guess, but not me. I have confidence in both firearms built up over thousands and thousands of trouble free rounds fired over the last decade plus since I bought these guns. Got 'em both for carry when I got my CCW originally and have not been sorry. Glad I didn't have the internet back then to get all this valuable advice...:rolleyes:

[Virginian]

Send it back. Taurus will fix it. Change your load and I doubt you have any further problems.

[bestseller92]

Get a Ruger GP100.

[Ala Dan]

Good Luck in obtaining a new weapon, through the Taurus "Limited Lifetime
Warranty Program". I think odds are better that hell will freeze over, rather
than them giving you a new weapon~! :uhoh: :(

[aaronrkelly]

Good Luck in obtaining a new weapon, through the Taurus "Limited Lifetime
Warranty Program". I think odds are better that hell will freeze over, rather
than them giving you a new weapon~!

I ended up getting a new weapon from them....but it wasnt a pleasant experience.

Called them about a barrel issue, they said send it in. They said it would be about 2 weeks.

I send it in.

Wait 4 weeks and call. Oh, the barrel needs replaced....we are waiting for the parts to come in from Brazil, should be about 2 weeks. Let me tell you at this point these people are hard to get any answers out of, they transfer you, drop your call, promise return calls etc.

Wait 4 weeks and call. Waiting for parts from Brazil, should be about 2 weeks.

Repeat process for 6 months.

Finally I called them mercifully, asking for Robert and being a big pain in the ass. They hung up, promised return calls etc. Robert finally told me they had NO clue when the parts would be in, could be 2 weeks could be a year and that I was going to just wait it out. Neither his answer nor his tone impressed me.

I called back the next day and asked for the contact information for their legal dept, they transfered me to Robert (far quicker then any other time). I told him I was trying to get the legal dept, not him and that I just needed their contact information for my lawyer regarding the issue with my revolver.

The suddenly decided I had waited too long and that they would send me a new revolver out by end of the week.

They did, it showed up in about 5 days at my door.

I opened it up and the finish was horrible, speckles of either rust or some brown contaminant all over it. There was a large chunk of the revolver left unfinished near the front sight. Oh well, its not pretty but if it works no biggie.

It didnt work.....well, it did.....3 or 4 shots at a time. Then it would bind up horrible. You could barely get the cylinder out of the frame - it required pushing in the latch and beating it out of the frame with the palm of your hand. It was an abysmal specimen of a firearm. I sold it at a loss to be done with Taurus.....never again.

That was 1 of 3 bad Taurii....Ive gotten the hint at this point.

Other people get great guns.....Im not saying all they make is junk, Im just saying all I ever received was junk.

[XD-40 Shooter]

I'm not trying to dump on Taurus here, because I roasted this one with my hot loads and a steady diet of them. On the flip side, I have a Taurus Mil-Pro 40 that is nothing short of awesome, I'd buy another one in a heartbeat, outstanding guns. I shoot mild target loads in this gun, with a few full power loads mixed in here and there, but few and far between. The Mil-Pro should last me a very long time, as I am being easy on it.

Before my Tracker bit the dust, It was a very nice revolver, very accurate, good shooting, I like it, still do. I'll just be shooting a whole lot more light 357 loads and 38 specials in it.

[shooter429]

I'm not trying to dump on Taurus here I will. I just got through looking at another brand new .357 that my buddy bought brand new 2 days ago, and it is the worst revolver I have ever seen. The trigger does not return half the time, it is out of time the DA trigger is so heavy, I cannot pull it, it has many tool marks and the cyl. face looks like someone took a hand grinder with 60 grit to it and shipped it that way. What a POS. I cannot imagine they continue to put out this terrible a product in this day and age. I feel bad for the guy and even angrier with Taurus. How do you tell someone they just got taken for a $400 ride and will be shipping their gun back for repair before ever firing a shot and will lose at least half of the purchase price if he tries to bail. Oh, and BTW, they put an orange sticker on the front sight that peels right off. That is right, a freakin sticker instead of paint or an insert of any kind. Un friggin real

Taurus revos just plain suck and appear to be getting worse, not better. I would be very wary of their guns.

Shooter429

[44and45]

I would be very wary of Shooter429 bias opinions, seems like he's still upset with people who like Taurus.

I'm very pleased with the two I own. :)

Jim

[AirForceShooter]

I'd have then check the timing too.
New Barrel will do it

AFS

[shooter429]

Feel free to end up like my friend, ignore my informed opinion and take a bath. You can't say you have not been warned.

Shooter429

[44and45]

Your bias is as obvious as your anti Taurus breath, you never miss a chance to post that bias in every Taurus post that comes along.

Your mouth wash ain't making it, Clyde...Dirty Harry.

My two Taurus have the smoothest triggers, the best double action smoothness of any brand revolver I've ever owned.

They also hit what I aim at.

Guess that's why I enjoy them. :)

Jim

[shooter429]

My two Taurus have the smoothest triggers, the best double action smoothness of any brand revolver I've ever owned.

You know, my first car (an old Nova) was great, even though it leaked, and got smoked at the strip. It was great, that is, until I got a big block Firebird. The first time I consumated a relationship, it was the best I'd ever had... LOL You see, the problem is that with 44and45 n=2

Not to mention they are two that you are invested in. Maybe you got lucky, but try a sample size that is a wee bit larger than 2 before you try to make any kind of statistical argument.

Shooter429

[dwave]

Yep, my Taurus is a TANK! Model 608ss and the accuracy is amazing and with a trigger pull that is the best of all my guns. 4#s in single action and 13 in double. This isn't the only Taurus I have owned, or will own. Guess having multiple ones guns from Taurus makes my opinion an informed one also.

[dwave]

Not to mention they are two that you are invested in. Maybe you got lucky, but try a sample size that is a wee bit larger than 2 before you try to make any kind of statistical argument.

What is your sample size? 3?

[MCgunner]

You know, my first car (an old Nova) was great, even though it leaked, and got smoked at the strip. It was great, that is, until I got a big block Firebird. The first time I consumated a relationship, it was the best I'd ever had... LOL You see, the problem is that with 44and45 n=2

Not to mention they are two that you are invested in. Maybe you got lucky, but try a sample size that is a wee bit larger than 2 before you try to make any kind of statistical argument.

I've owned more'n one handgun. Have three Taurus revolvers out of 20 handguns at the moment. Been shooting handguns for 40 years now. I've fired a lot of different models over the years.

And, I could never afford hot rod cars, why I got into motorcycles. I'll see your firebird and raise you an 11K dollar bone stock 185 mph GSXR1000. :D I've raced motorcycles for about 35 years off and on, now. Big bike days are over and I dabble in minis, now, for fun, road racing on kart tracks. And, I've done some flat track. Never was interested in cars OR going straight. Too boring and too expensive.

[Brian Williams]

This thread is done, and you guys gotta get is right it is the HKs that say you suck and we hate you...
Taurus' blow, Glocks KB and S&Wslockup, 1911s just DOn't and Rugers are cast.