powder burn on one side of brass


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KFDiesel
January 26, 2008, 07:41 PM
just loaded up some .45 ACP with 4.7 gr. of WIN 231, 230 gr. Ranier TCJ. Using new Rem. brass and CCI-LP primers. Oal is 1.257+/-. Shooting with my 3 1/2 in bbl 1911 I was seeing "sparks" as I fired and the brass looks burned only on one side. wHY?

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W.E.G.
January 26, 2008, 07:46 PM
The sparks are unburned powder.

Is this a slightly mild load?
I think so.

Sometimes a mild load will cause incomplete seal of the case mouth to the chamber, with resulting gas blowback alongside the casing.

Really not a problem unless its causing excessive fouling of the chamber or the mechanism. Keep an eye on that.

KFDiesel
January 26, 2008, 07:48 PM
Im using the Lee classic turrett. Could it be that Im not crimping it properly(enough)? It's relatively mild yes.

ADKWOODSMAN
January 26, 2008, 08:04 PM
My lighter loads usually do the same. I wouldn't worry about your crimp. However, a stronger crimp will keep the bullet in the case longer and theoretically burn the powder more completely, IMHO, from years of reloading lighter loads.

ReloaderFred
January 26, 2008, 10:51 PM
Yes, it's a light load, and no, the case isn't completely sealing, which is why you're getting soot on the side of the case. If it bothers you, then bump up the load a little, until the case seals the chamber.

Hope this helps.

Fred

KeithB
January 26, 2008, 10:55 PM
i would not over crimp, .469 would be the max, i shoot for .470 - .471

KFDiesel
January 27, 2008, 11:28 AM
How do I measure the crimp?

The Bushmaster
January 27, 2008, 11:45 AM
Measure the crimp? With a dial calipers...I doubt that it is the crimp (I don't even crimp my .45 ACP's)... A light powder charge will definately do it. I get the same thing with some of my moderate loads too. I've even see it on my 950 fps loadings... Never gave it much thought. Pretty normal...

Ben Shepherd
January 27, 2008, 11:47 AM
What brass are you using?

KFDiesel
January 27, 2008, 12:14 PM
How is it possibel to crimp to .470 without measuring.? How far from the mouth should you measure.
. . . .
Would you like to share any reasons why you dont crimp them . . . ? Maybe I wont crimp them either. . . . I dont know. Why dont you simply tells me why not to. . . .
It's new Rem brass.

Walkalong
January 27, 2008, 12:57 PM
4.7 Grs of W-231 is real light. Up your powder charge.

shadowalker
January 27, 2008, 01:14 PM
KFDiesel, this is one of the most friendly and helpful sites.

If you haven't already take a look at this thread (http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=331517&highlight=measure+crimp), it is a good post about crimp and how to measure it.

Next time . . . you might consider using the search functionality.

The Bushmaster
January 27, 2008, 05:59 PM
Measure the case for crimp diameter at the case mouth. Just after the bullet. I don't crimp my .45 ACP rounds because they don't need it if you don't bell your cases more then you need to. All I do is remove any bell that is left without forcing the bullet.

Luggernut
January 27, 2008, 07:28 PM
I also only remove the bell... just a slight taper crimp. The neck tension is what holds the bullet in most pistol rounds.

Also- that is a very light load from my experience. I use 5.2gr of 231 with Berrys and about the same COL.. and that is still a pretty light load. About 740ft/sec out of my Govt size 1911. I doubt yours are getting even close to 700 ft/sec. If I was to guess I'd say 4.7gr of 231 in your gun should be getting you about 650-675 ft/sec. Slow.

Johnny Guest
January 27, 2008, 10:09 PM
The original question by KFDiesel was a good one. Good answers were given. Perhaps the answers were misunderstood. Maybe the members providing answers overestimated the level of knowledge and didn't explain fully enough to suit the questioner.

Whatever the case, members were trying to assist KFDiesel and he apparently didn't understand some of what they were saying. Those who made snide remarks about the resulting snit did not help anything. If you think another member needs supervision, please click the Report This Post triangle.

I've redacted or removed certain posts which were just too argumentative.

Please don't take offense when someone is trying to give good answers. The way to measure crimp, and the decision to crimpo or not, are fairly basic reloading procedures. I suggest anyone who does not understand them go back and read the loading manual. If you need more, then clearly state your needs on this forum. TFL is a great place to seek enlightenment. The more learned brethren will be as willing to impart knowledge as you are to receive it.

Back to the topic - - -
As pointed out above, the soot or discoloration on one side of the empty cases is usually a result of incomplete case expansion to fit the chamber. If bore size and bullet diameter are properly matched, the problem is likely too-low pressures. The pressure may be raised in various ways:

Increase powder charge (not exceeding published loads.)
Increase bullet weight.
Apply a tighter crimp to allow pressures to develop before the bullet moves.

A combination of these is possible, surely, but it's best to alter one variable at a time, always being alert for TOO HIGH pressures.

I agree with those who opined that your charge of 231 is too light. We loaded a bunch of 230 gr. hard cast lead bullets over 5.3 of 231. It chronographed right at 800 fps from my old Colt Government Model and Elder Son't Kimber Classic, both with five-inch barrels.

Good luck.
Johnny

evan price
January 27, 2008, 11:49 PM
+1 on Johnny's comments.

There is a thread on here about weak reloads in .45 with Rainier 230s and W231.

5.3 grains is a good load for this combination. It may be "slightly" over the new published loads by Hodgdon but it was the std load a few years ago. They have dropped W231 for some reason that makes it quite weak.

joneb
January 28, 2008, 03:03 AM
The pressure may be raised in various ways:
Deceasing the C.O.A.L. will also up the pressure.
Oal is 1.257+/-. Shooting with my 3 1/2 in bbl 1911
Diesel, have you checked a loaded round in your barrel to ensure that it is head spacing properly ?
As others have suggested I would increase the charge, heck I've loaded 230gr FMJs with 4.8gr of Bullseye with great results in a 5" 1911 with no visual crimp, for plated 230gr I use around 6.5gr of AA#5 with a little crimp as this load works well in my 1911 and my Marlin camp carbine.
Working up a load may be "work" for some, but for me it is one of the aspects of reloading I enjoy :)

Johnny Guest
January 28, 2008, 08:16 PM
Deceasing the C.O.A.L. will also up the pressure.
Quite right, but, as he's using an autoloader and chooses a 230 RN bullet, he's pretty well restricted as to the COL that will work for him.

Best,
Johnny

KFDiesel
January 28, 2008, 09:55 PM
I appologize for any innappropriate attitude or language on my part. I value the constructive input of the helpful members here. I'll def. try upping the load while being careful not to overdo it. Thanks again.

Walkalong
January 29, 2008, 08:54 AM
Go to 5.0 Grs W-231 and work up. 5.0 Grs is still pleny safe. :)

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