[FireArmFan]

First off let me start by saying i don't really like small guns. i've got pretty good sized hands and prefer larger pistols. However, lately i've found myself going out once in a while unarmed due to wardrobe restrictions or other reasons. I carry a HK P2000 which isn't huge but it's not tiny either. So I've decided to start looking for a handgun I could just put in a pocket holster and throw in a jacket pocket or pants pocket. I've got a few guns I plan on buying before this one but I'm starting to do the research now. My first instinct was the the Kahr PM9 but then I looked at their website and saw that MSRP for their cheapest model was $771. I understand that I would be able to get one cheaper than MSRP but that is still more than I want to spend. This would not be a gun I shoot a lot, it would simply be a small gun that I carry when nothing else is an option. I'm looking for cheap yet still goes bang when I pull the trigger. About what would a used PM9 cost? The Kel Tec P11 seems to be a good option. As far as I can tell it's cheap and reliable. For an autoloader I'd like to stick with 9mm or bigger and for revolver .38 special. I'm not against buying something used. So what do you say, for around $400 or less what is a good pocket pistol and why? I've done some searching on here and found some good info but still looking for more advice.

[DSOTM]

J-Frame conceals great in my pocket

[makarovnik]

Can you say Kel-Tec? Sure, I knew you could.

[Jim E]

Ah, the endless search for a small but powerful pocket pistol. I've pondered this same question for about the last 25 years!

I can tell you that from about '97 to '07 my concealed carry guns were a S&W 642 (front pocket) and/or a Glock 26 (jacket pocket). Both served me very well in this role.

Last year I purchased one of the new Bersa .380CC pistols and have been pocket carrying that ever since. This is a very impressive, inexpensive little pistol. Small, flat, nicely made and reliable. I think mind was about $255.00 out the door.

I've recently acquired a NIB Smith 6906 that I've been wanting since they were discontinued. First time I've carried with a belt holster in years.

[Socrates]

360PD with bobbed hammer, and custom grips...

[denfoote]

My pocket pistol is the Kahr MK9 Elite 98. I've had it for years.
However, that will change. Recently, I bought the new Kel-Tec PF9.
It weighs 12.7 oz and is chambered in 9mm.
It's currently in Fl for some expected work.
It will replace the Kahr when I get it back.

[critter]

I have a nice little revolver that fits that bill. It is a Taurus 905 (I think is the model). It is a 5-shot 9mm moon clip snubby. Its barrel is about 1/4" shorter than the comperable M85 .38 AND the cylinder is also about that much shorter. Total is about 1/2" shorter than the 85 and the hammer is bobbed. Neat lil pocket gun.

[ranger58]

FireArmFan, s+w j frames are nice you can buy larger grips if needed, should be able to find new for around 400. mine is 15 oz,s, pocket carry or IWB. Do you ever carry the HK p2000 IWB, I have the same and only have a OWB for it, would like to IWB haven't heard if it is to big or would be uncomfortable. Thanks, DJ

[FireArmFan]

Thanks for the replies so far. I'll take a look at what's been mentioned so far.

Ranger58, I pretty much only carry IWB. I have an OWB holster but don't use it much. I use this Don Hume IWB and it works great.

http://www.donhume.com/Products/ProductsPage.cfm?ProductID=35

[P97]

I have the same problem as you. I got a SW 642 Centennial Airweight and put on a set of pachmayr grips. They extend below the handle and make the handle long and big enough to get a good grip on. I like it very much. :)

[rcmodel]

Cabala's has the S&W 637 Air-Weight on sale right now for $349.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j219/rcmodel/KTOG/1224.gif
rcmodel

[FireArmFan]

The S&W 637 looks like a pretty good option. What are people's experience with the Kel-Tec P11?

[camper]

Khar PM9 with cargo shorts and NAA 380 Guardian when more conservative dress is required. Real conservative--NAA PUG.

[jad0110]

If you've got bigger than average hands, then a J-Frame S&W might be good to look into as there is a near infinite selection of stocks to choose from (including custom made) to get the perfect fit.

I too have big hands, and actually find the standard rubber Uncle Mike's boot grips on my 642 to be just right. My 642 is the only small, pocketable gun out there that I enjoy shooting for this reason. However, I do admit that it took over a year of experimentation to find a grip technique that works for me.

The S&W 637 looks like a pretty good option.

Also consider the 638 (shrouded hammer) or 642 (totally enclosed hammer). The rounded/smooth backstrap of the 642 in particular make it one of the easiest, fastest pocket blasters to grab and draw. Never snags or hangs up, just slides right out with no fighting. The prominent grip also means it is easy for your hand to find in your pocket, though at the expensive of super-concealability like that found in the tiny Kel-Tecs.


http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q139/jad0110/Smith%20and%20Wesson%20Model%20642%2038%20Special/642palm.jpg

642 in a round-cut Robert Mika pocket holser. Note the easy-to-grasp grip.

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q139/jad0110/Smith%20and%20Wesson%20Model%20642%2038%20Special/642_12-3.jpg

Rent or borrow one if you can. I don't find the recoil to be bad at all, and I can shoot it pretty well. Others find them to be quite painful and difficult to shoot.

[jad0110]

Double tap, sorry!

[CoRoMo]

I never get tired of a thread from someone searching for a good pocket pistol.
I've even think I started a couple threads when I was on the look.
I settled on the P11 and haven't looked back since.
It is 100% reliable... so far.

P.S.
I really like the 642 and will buy one if I ever get over my loathing of S&W.

[Safety First]

My only pocket rocket is a Keltec P3AT in the hard chrome slide version..travels in leather holster in my front pocket....It is my always (when legal) with me gun...has been reliable and it is so light I honestly sometimes forget it is in my pocket...

[m4coyote]

I have the little Kahr PM9, and am very satisfied with it. It has night sights, which are not available on the S&W revolvers, and it holds six shots of 9mm. I have owned one of the ultralight S&W .38 special revolvers, and for me, the PM9 is just plain easier to shoot.

The little 14.7 ounce PM9 is extremely accurate for it's size, and follow up shots are easily accomplished. It comes with a six round and extended seven round magazine.

After more than seven hundred rounds, it has only malfunctioned once (failure to completely feed, but a quick tap on the back of the slide made it go bang). This happened during the Kahr suggested 200 round break in, and occurred at about round 175. I did have to drift the rear sight a little bit to the right to properly center my groups.

It is barely larger than the Kel-Tec P3AT that I sold prior to purchasing the PM9.

The PM9 is a rather expensive gun, but I feel that I received every bit if not more than what I paid for. I got the blackened slide and night sights (the most expensive model) for an out the door price of $778.00. The natural stainless finished slide with the normal sights costs around $550.00 new around here.

I am very happy with my PM9 in every way, and highly recommend it to anyone wanting an easily concealable, highly accurate, and dependable pocket sized auto pistol.

[PAPACHUCK]

I'm very happy with my two pocket guns; a Kel-Tec P11 and a S&W 642. Both have been very reliable and fit nicely in most front pockets. Even when I carry a larger sidearm, one of the above is in my pocket. An alternate for the P11 would be the PF9.

[RKBABob]

First off let me start by saying i don't really like small guns. i've got pretty good sized hands and prefer larger pistols.

+1 for the S&W 442 or 642. You can find them in your price range. The enclosed hammer really makes it snag-proof and lint-proof, and you can customize it with an unlimited selection of aftermarket stocks to fit your big hands when the budget allows.

Ajax Custom Grips (http://www.ajaxgrips.com/ajax/ajax)
Crimson Trace LG-405 compact rubber overmold (http://www.crimsontrace.com/Home/Products/SmithWesson/LG405/tabid/235/Default.aspx)
Crimson Trace LG-305 extended rubber overmold (http://www.crimsontrace.com/Home/Products/SmithWesson/LG305/tabid/233/Default.aspx)
Crimson Trace LG-105 defender series (http://www.crimsontrace.com/Home/Products/SmithWesson/LG105/tabid/232/Default.aspx)
Grips 4 Guns (http://www.grips4guns.com)
Hogue j-frame grips (http://www.hogueinc.com/getgrip/merchant.ihtml?id=87&step=2)
Grips by Esmerelda (http://www.esmeralda.cc/smith_and_wesson_j_frame.htm)

[gym]

Seacamp

[Ed4032]

Kahr, I think it is the best CC weapon. Their ad says it all.... Slim is sexy. I put my CW9 in my jeans pocket and carry it everywhere.

[DoubleTapDrew]

P3AT for something really small. I recently got one and I'm impressed so far. It feels about like having a cell phone in your pocket. I consider the .380 very marginal for defence but it's better than a squirt of OC and some harsh words when you can't carry anything bigger.
At the last gun show I went to this past weekend I saw Kahr PM9s in the $400-$500 range (probably used, I didn't examine further). They seem like an excellent gun and I hope to get one when funds permit even though I like my glock 26.
Revolvers (especially with hidden/bobbed hammers) have the extra benefit of being able to fire more than 1 round from your jacket pocket.

[jaydubya]

A 642 with Crimson Trace LG405 grips in an Uncle Mike's pocket holster. Four years ago I bought a 637 with the LG305's installed by the store. If I had to do it again, I would have bought the 642. And if the CT 405s had been available then, I would have gotten them rather than the 305s. Airweights kick like mules with many +p loads, so shop around. My 637 is loaded with Remington FBI loads (+p 158gr LSWCHP). They are memorable to shoot, but not so much so as other loads. And they expand nicely out of a snubby.
Cordially, Jack

[Ex-MA Hole]

642.

There is nothing else.

[tblt]

S & W 642 light shoots good

[Green Lantern]

You said you don't want to go below a 9, but buy a P3AT and the ONLY excuse you'll have to go unarmed will be if you're going streaking! :D

The new(ish) PF-9 might be worth looking into, but offhand I don't know if it meets the critera for "pocket pistol."

BTW, you might want to look into carry options from Ken Null, or Kramer. The SMZ shoulder rig from the former, and the Confidant undershirt holster from the latter can both be hidden well under fairly thin shirts (at least with a smallish .380 like a PPK or Bersa Thunder .380, though I'm sure you could go a bit bigger than that).

[FireArmFan]

A friend of mine has a Taurus Ultralite .38 hammerless that he told me he would sell me. It has laser grips on it. I've seen it before but never shot it. He told me he'd bring it next time we go shooting. He said he'd sell it for about $200. Sounds like a fair deal. I might go with that. Any opinions?

[Jim E]

Sorry, double post.

[Jim E]

You'll likely get a lot of negative comments about Taurus, but my experience with their products has been very positive. I've owned three of their snubby revolvers, and two of their 9mm pistols. I liked them all.

That was back in the 90's though, so I have no recent experience.

The lock location on their revolvers is certainly more desirable than that of a Smith.

[Breakdaddy]

My pocket piece is the Kahr PM9. I would not trade it for anything cheaper and have tested it extensively with various types of defensive ammo with good results. I know it will serve me if it needs to and it doesnt print at all in my pockets.

[Jeff F]

I've got a Spanish ruby .32 acp thats kind of big and heavy for what it is, but it has not ever had any failure's of any kind and its been shot a lot. Fits real nice in a jacket pocket.

[Jomax]

My S&W 642 or my KT PF-9 in cargo shorts pocket every day. My Seecamp 32 when I'm dressed up.

[gunmn74]

I would look at the Keltec PF9. I saw one the other day and they are the
thinnest gun I have ever seen. They are 9mm, 6+1 I think. Somewhere
around 12 oz and look about the same size as a J-frame overall.
It is similar to the p11 but is only a single stack where the p11 is a thicker
double stack.

[Working Man]

SP101..... there is several grips you can get to fit what you are looking for.

[Lightsped]

I know its a .22lr, but how about a Beretta 21a? With a small suppressor? Are these guns reliable?

[usp9]

I know its a .22lr, but how about a Beretta 21a? With a small suppressor? Are these guns reliable?


That would be a bit long for most pockets, wouldn't it? People might think you were a little too happy to see them.

[Pa.Bill]

All the above is great reading.
I am in the market for a pocket pistol (mouse gun) The smaller the better.
I have a gun show coming up in 3 weeks and will have some hands-on- looking.
Phoenix, Cobra, Derringers, Beretta Bobcat,Kel Tec,NAA and the list goes on.
Anyone have a favorite?

[Lightsped]

Using a small Tactical Solutions Cascade suppressor, I can easily conceal a gun the size of a 21a in a jacket pocket.

[Phil DeGraves]

J-Frame

[Phil DeGraves]

"I know its a .22lr, but how about a Beretta 21a?"

Actually, the .25 versions are more reliable and have a larger magazine capacity (which you will need considering the abysmal ballistics of the cartridge.) That being said, they are reliable and shoot well. Of course, the 25 ammo is alot pricier than the .22 but if I'm going to depend on one of these for a last ditch defense gun (which means I've shot all three of my J-frames dry and the ten speedloaders), I think I'd rather opt for the .25.

[ldp4570]

FN Model 1910
Colt 1903 Hammerless
Colt Vest Pocket 1906
Walther PPK
Mauser HSc
Sauer H38
Most are .32 or .380, with one being a .25.
They've been getting the job done for years and are still functional in todays world. Its not the size of bullet that matters but where you place them. JMHO!!!!

[Green Lantern]

Phoenix, Cobra, Derringers, Beretta Bobcat,Kel Tec,NAA and the list goes on.
Anyone have a favorite?

I've only used a P3AT and a Bersa Thunder .380 as far as "pocket pistols" go. I've shot an Airweight .38 Smith (liked it a lot, tho I learned quickly how to get bitten by the latch if you goof your hold) - but didn't get to actually try and CCW it.

Size is important, but don't overlook WEIGHT as a "make or break" factor for a pocket gun as well! Another reason why I love my P3AT!

[Pa.Bill]

Green Lantern - Thanks----Have 380 Bersa. Wonderful gun but I guess what I'm really looking for in something to slip into a back pocket(not be noticed) and yes--weight is important, I agree.
I did look around the net and many of these mouse gun have mixed reports. At the gun show I should beable to get the feel for the right one for me.

[Buck shot]

:) Another happy pf-9 camper. After seeing the weight, thickness, and price I found you cannot go wrong with the PF-9. A small 9 mil for around 300 bucks with a lifetime warantee. I carry it daily now and it hides very well.

No problems yet (around 200 rounds thru it)...

I think it was a good buy.

[PX15]

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a73/Laserlips/100_8018.jpg

Just slip your LWS32 in the pocket (wallet) holster and you're good to go. :D

Works for me....

JP

[gopguy]

Getting harder to find but a nice Makarov works well. I just found a decent East German example made in 1961 sitting in a little gun shop just North of me for $200 with a spare magazine and correct East German holster. I seem to accumulate these little east bloc guns.

Flat and nice to carry, more powerful than a .380 and the ammo is now available in hollowpoints. Sights are adequate, but not more. Usually they are very accurate. Main drawback is the dreaded European heel release for the magazine. The Sig 230 and 232 are also plagued with this. All steel they are a little heavy for pocket carry...

[NCHornet]

The majority of the guns mentioned in this thread may be fine for pocket carry in jeans or cargo pants but not dress slacks. I have a beautiful Model 60 snub but you can forget putting it in a pair of dress slacks and call it concealed, no matter the holster. If you want a pocket gun for dress slacks the options are
Beretta Tomcat
Seecamp's
NAA Guardians
KelTec P3AT
R9's

The majority of the above can be had in 32 and 380 while the R9 is a 9mm I believe it is to much gun in to small a package. I have two of the Guardians, one in 32 and 380 and one of them is always with me. Well made, Solid SS, accurate, the slightly larger size over the Seecamp help to reduce recoil, and the finger extensions help with larger hands like mine. You need to look at some of the hotter SD 380 ammo now being made by Corbon, Double Tap etc... not sure there is a huge difference between them and a standard 9mm out of such a small barrel. All of the choices above will disappear in a pair of dress slacks.
NCH

[rantingredneck]

The Guardians are indeed well made guns. I own two as well and one is almost always with me. (unless there's a .45 on my hip) :)



and sometimes even when there is one........:uhoh:

[dbracin]

I had a very difficult time deciding what pocket pistol to get.
This is what I ended up with.... :rolleyes:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v625/dbracin/pocket.jpg

[rantingredneck]

Nice collection. :)

[Jkwas]

P3at. I repeat, P3at. That is all!

[rantingredneck]

Y'know, I briefly had one of those, and while it was very light and easy to carry and was trouble free (unlike a few that've been mentioned here and elsewhere) the reason I no longer have it is that it simply did not fit my hands worth a darn. I've got pretty big paws and it didn't give me enough to hang on to. :)

[Quilbilly]

First off, I LOVE my airweight.
My next gun will be a Kahr PM9 though. The price put me off a bit at first so I was thinking of a glock g26. I went to the store and held the G26 and hated it because it didnt really fit my hand (only 2 fingers on the grips). Then the guy handed my a Springfield XD which I really liked and fit well in my hand. The problem with it was it was a bit to heavier than I wanted. Then I got my hands on the kahr and I knew right away that was the gun for me. My advise is just to wait a little longer, save up and get the gun you really want. My second choice is the j-frame. Thats just my 2 cents. :)

[Shadan7]

I've had a little Raven .25 forever, a Rohrbaugh R9 for a couple of years (yes, it's one of the first ones), and a 642 for about three months.

The Raven is a joke. I mean, seriously.

The R9 is about the ideal little pocket pistol. Except it is so small it is hard for me to shoot well (big hands). Still, in a pocket holster, it disappears in even the slimmest slacks. 6+1, and I'm good with it to maybe 15 yards.

The 642 - ah, now we're talking. I can shoot it accurately at 25 yards. Life-trustworthy dependable. Almost as undetectable as the R9. My new fav pocket weapon. And at less than half the price of my R9, the way to go for 90% of situations.

Don't get me wrong - the R9 is an incredible bit of engineering. But for the average Joe, the 642 seems to really fit the bill. There's a reason they're so popular.

7

[Erik]

Another "j-frame" fan, here. Which ever one you prefer.

[orionengnr]

I've been through the j-frame phase (six counts, from steel to alloy to Scandium).

Then I bought a Kahr PM9, which has been my constant companion for about two years. It is in my pocket as I type this.

I bought and sold a P-11 recently. I like the mag capacity but the width is noticeably larger than the PM9 and the trigger was, well, let's just say I am spoiled by the PM9's trigger. The reliability of my P-11 was sub-optimal as well.

After all I've read about P3ATs, I was almost afraid to buy one. I figured I'd love it so much that I'd sell everything else and carry that .380 everywhere. Well, I've owned two P3ATs, and the bloom is off that rose. I've have had to work on both extensively. One is now fairly trustworthy, one is still a work in progress. (FWIW, Kel-Tec's CS is great, and I've called them often.) They are not pleasant to shoot and do not encourage practice. I have carried it, but only occasionally and with no great degree of enthusiasm or confidence.

I bought and sold my barely-used KT P-11 (stainless sllide) for $225.
I paid $500 for the PM9 (used, stainless slide, night sights). Kahr also makes a CW9 that I have seen new for ~$439, and I narrowly missed a slightly used one for $300. The CW9 holds one more round (7+1) and is just slighly larger, maybe 3/8" longer grip and 1/4" longer barrel. For the larger hand, that might be just about perfect.

This is a good size comparison resource:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=171820

[Alan Fud]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v625/dbracin/pocket.jpg That's interesting that the Kahr and the Rohrbaugh are ABOUT the same size. I may need to re-visit them.

[Gideon]

Well guys, there's a new option in town!! Go to Ruger's web site and check out their new LCP .380 pocket pistol! It's a dead ringer knock off of the P3AT from keltec although it's just a hair ( and I mean a hair) bigger. fit and finish looks like it'll be better than the keltec and if it's more reliable than keltec on the whole, then it'll be a great option for a bug or true pocket piece and the price point makes it very very attractive. Question is, when will it be in a store near you!
God Bless
Gideon

[AZAndy]

Thanks for that pointer, Gideon. I hadn't heard about the Kel-Ruger-Tec. I'll be watching for one so that I can check it out...

[Rex B]

P3AT 90% for me
P11 or NAA Magnum the other 10%

[ScottD]

The P3AT has a checkered past and a KNOWN history of having many problems. This is a list of common problems with them and I've had several of these problems myself. Go to KTOG.org and you'll find MULTIPLE examples (and more) of everything listed below.

Bulging grips which cause the assembly pin spring to come out of its slot, walking assembly pins that damage frames, smilies with cracked mags and chewed up followers, FTX/E issues resulting in multiple extractor (and ejector) redesigns, guide rod hole peening, trigger return spring popping out of its groove, mag catches wearing out and causing premature mag release, etc?

I want to see how the Ruger LCP .380 is going to be. Hopefully, it will be a winner out of the box, unlike the P3AT. And spare the the "copycat" stuff. As with many others, if it's a better product, I don't care where it came from and I will vote with my dollars accordingly. Competition only benefits we consumers and, hopefully, it will set KT on it's tail end and get them to ramp up quality and features! Even though it's not magazine operated, even Ruger figured out how to incorporate some sort of manual slide lock.

[lbmii]

Look into the new Ruger copy of the Kel Tec 3AT.

I carry a Kel Tec 3AT. If you get one only get the second generation and test it out quite a bit.

The new Ruger I think might hold a lot of promise.

[chrlefxtrt]

I also have pretty big hands and even though it is a small frame, I like my Taurus 605 .357mag. It might be small but I find it very comfortable. If you don't like automatics I suggest one. Hell even if you do. I usually carry it in a tuckable IWB holster my dad made me (often forgetting it's there), but I have been known to put it in my pocket on occasion.

[Russ]

I have wardrobe restrictions most everyday. I like the Kel Tec P-3AT. Like others have said, you almost forget you have it in your pocket. I have caught myself freaking out because I can hardly tell the thing is there until I pat myself down to make sure. Mine has been flawlessly reliable. Granted it's a .380 but a whole lot better than nothing.

[jimk66]

Hello, I have a 642 and although nice and small and a great pocked gun......I hate shooting it and ...yes I've tried till I'm tired of trying to adjust my grip to make it more comfortable to shoot with no success. So....I stick with my 640 or my little Colt MKIV Gov Mustang 380 acp which is a fantastic pocket gun.
Got a question for you Kahr PM9 guys........Please try and be objective with your replies. How is the recoil on those little pistols and how reliable are they?

Thanks,
JimK

[Tuckerp229]

With a little patience you will be able to find a used like new Kahr for about 450.00.
They are great little guns. I carry the PM40 myself. It disappears in my waist holster and is so light I forget it is there.

[Prose]

I just bought a new P-3AT. Fired 150 rounds through. No problems whatsoever. Incredibly Tiny. It can go in a shirt pocket or any other pocket for that matter.

I also have a Jennings 22. It's old. Works flawlessly. I will NEVER carry it, lol.