[only1asterisk]

I am looking to buy several evil looking rifles in the next 18-30 months. Should I wait or buy before the new ban? Want an AR or two, an M1A, an AK or two a couple of HK type and maybe a Garand. What do you say?


David

[TIMC]

Prices on the domestic rifles may not change much if the ban sunsets. I would suggest starting with them. You might see something good happen with the imports. Time will tell.

[Blueduck]

If you really want a "pre-ban" AR I'd wait to see what happens.

No way I'd pay $2000 for a folding stock and flash suppesor equiped pre-ban AR right now when next year new ones similarily equiped might well be $900. I also won't pay $850 for a rifle that looks silly to me (post ban models) so I'm waiting and hoping for the best.

IIRC only domestic rifles are affected by the sunsetted ban (imports had previous restrictions) so if your waiting for a "real" HK-91 might want to go ahead and pony up the $$$ or buy real comfortable shoes for the wait ;)

[DMK]

Buy the HKs and AKs now, there isn't going to be any difference later. 9.22r import regs aren't going away.

The others you could buy postban now and later when pre/post becomes meaningless add whatever you want, unless it's something semi-permanent like a bayo lug.

[Steve Smith]

I'd say that unless you get a real steal on a pre-ban domestic rifle, then skip it for now. I found a steal so I knew I wouldn't be upside down on it, but I wouldn't pay $1200+ for a pre-ban now.

[Master Blaster]

If you want a US rifle buy a postban now at a good price. If the AWB sunsets, you can get the barrel threaded and the flash hidder added, and buy a collapsable stock anyway.

Bayonette lug on an AR/XM-15??? Buy a sword instead:rolleyes:

I doubt with the situation as is the prices on postbans will go down any.

If the new ban gets passed you can forget about any semiauto military rifle.

If it gets renewed as is, you will not loose anything.

I cant see paying 800-1000 extra for a flash hidder, bayo lug and collapsible stock on a used rifle anyway. But I like my Bushie for shootin, and it does that very well.

Flash hidder looks nice, but if you need one a tin can with a hole will do as field expedient. Collapsable stock uncomfortable to shoot, useless on a rifle IMHO.

M1s will probably not see a price decrease if sunset occurs either. CMP is the best deal now for a real one.

The Bush the 1st Import ban will still be in place, so you might as well purchase that foreign import now as well. I just bought my first AK SAR-1 :fire:

Guns are like realestate the best time to buy is always now, if the price location and features are there. Prices always seem to rise, at least for the last 20 years I've been shooting.

[benEzra]

From sad experience, I'd suggest buying now. I wanted to buy a folding stock for my mini-14 back in 1994, but didn't want to spend the $80 right then. I figured that after all, this was America--the ban couldn't pass. It did. I've been kicking myself for ten years since.:banghead:

I learned my lesson and went ahead and bought a SAR-1 last month, as soon as I heard rumors that the supply might dry up. Sure, maybe the price will come down a little if the ban sunsets, but if some of the junk pending before Congress DOES get passed, you may be limited to what you already own--possibly for the rest of your life.

[bigsapper]

Here's a thought...

Current prices are based simply on supply and demand. When (if) the AWB sunsets, supply isn't going to change overnight. One thing I would assume to be guaranteed is that most currently owned post-bans will be retro-fitted to some extent by their current owners. I've seen no bona-fide proof that manufacturers will(instantly) change their product lines.

Myself, I'd buy a cheap post-ban and retro-fit. If the AWB doesn't go away, prices for prebans aren't likely to appreciate much more than where they've been at.

YMMV

[Kharn]

Buy now. You can always have someone with a hydraulic press remove a front sight base and replace it with one with a bayonet lug, a gunsmith with a lathe can turn barrel threads, a folding/telescoping stock might require some work, or might be very easy to add, depends on the firearm.

Dont buy a preban, $100 or so extra work on a postban after 9/04 will give you the same features as an expensive preban currently has, and the cost savings will let you buy another post ban. Two post-94 bans are definitely better than one preban, especially on the one-in-a-million chance that Feinstein gets her wish and the big ban passes.

Kharn

[Hkmp5sd]

I've seen no bona-fide proof that manufacturers will(instantly) change their product lines.

There is no reason to change their current product lines. Companies such as Bushmaster currently sell "LEO Only" ARs, pre-ban uppers for those with preban ARs, short-barreled uppers for those with NFA weapons and the post-ban configured ARs. They will simply quit making the post-ban configured rifles and go back to making true ARs, rifles that are semiautomatic versions of the military M16/M4.

This will allow more production time for ARs, less record keeping and stocking hassles with keeping track of pre-bans/post-bans/LEOs, etc. No more stupid "fixed" collapsible stocks.

[Byron Quick]

Current prices are based simply on supply and demand.

It is true that current prices are based on supply and demand. What you are ignoring is that the supply of firearms with pre-ban features has been artificially fixed.

And in accordance to the law of supply and demand...what happens when the supply is fixed and there is still demand?

[bigsapper]

Hkmp5sd,

Good point. I hadn't considered that.


Byron Quick,

While I understand your point, I haven't observed any appreciable difference in pre-ban prices in the last 2-3 years. I should qualify that and state I'm only paying attention to the AR-series.

[Byron Quick]

While I understand your point, I haven't observed any appreciable difference in pre-ban prices in the last 2-3 years. I should qualify that and state I'm only paying attention to the AR-series.

Of course not, increasing price affects demand. If you have X demand at price 2Y then you will have (every other factor being unchanged) 2X demand at price Y. In other words, with a limited supply and strong demand, the price will continue to rise until demand is lessened, thus balancing supply and demand.

If the supply is increased this will tend to decrease prices which, in turn, will increase demand as folks who've decided not to pay X price...decide that they will pay .6X price.

Another example, transferrable fully automatic BAR's are selling in the neighborhood of twenty thousand dollars each. BAR parts kits are selling for $495.00 in the last Shotgun News. Now the purchaser had to pay for these BAR's, pay someone to cut the receiver into three pieces, pay to have the kit shipped to the US, pay custom duties, etc., and pay for storage and advertising. Two laws and ATF proclamations (one might be an executive order, I'm not sure) prevent these guns from being sold to the public in working condition. The result is that transferrable specimens command $20K while the actual price without these laws would be below $495 as the importers would not have to pay to have the receivers cut. Now the demand would jump like an exploding volcano...maybe resulting in a price of $1000.

The laws subvert supply and demand.

[DAL]

I'm waitin'.
DAL

[El Rojo]

Buy a post ban. Then buy any pre-ban parts you will want to add after November 2004. Once the ban is lifted, if it is, then add the pre-ban parts.

All I know is it is going to get interesting around here if a new one passes. All of you knocking the PRK are going to see me with a big grin on my face. Misery loves company. Make fun of us people stuck behind enemy lines and then have it thrown in your face. Sure I don't want it to happen, but either way I win in some way.

[dave3006]

Interesting point El Rojo. The people living in free states always want to put us down for living in occupied Kali. The gun laws are not our fault. We are outnumbered by the socialists 10:1. We have decided to stay for various reasons (job, family, homes...). The people ridiculing us would do no different in the same situation if their states go communist too. They just don't know it yet.

[standingbear]

the ban created a market for profit.appearance vs functionality.flash hiders really hide the flash?get a postban and have a muzzle brake slapped on.i look at functionality.do you really need the bayonet lug..it looks neat but for half the price,right now,im going to stick with the postban and add some ammo,a brake on the muzzle and maybe a holosight or something.itll still shoot just as good as the preban version with the bayonet lug and the retractable stock.if you gotta have the features and have money to burn,get the one that suits your tastes.itll still shoot 1 shot per trigger pull just as the preban would.

[Hkmp5sd]

flash hiders really hide the flash?
Yep.

get a postban and have a muzzle brake slapped on.
Nope. On an AR, it makes the sound excessively loud with no real need for recoil reduction on a .223 semiauto.

There are functional uses for every evil item listed in the "semi-automatic assault weapon" ban. What the moronic democrats fail to understand is these features have nothing to do with the normal vs. crimminal use of a firearm. The features do not make the firearm "more" deadly or easier for a criminal to use in a crime. For the uninitiated, they may merely be cosmetic features that one can live without, but to others, they do serve a valid and useful purpose.

[Mr. Chitlin]

What the moronic democrats fail to understand is these features have nothing to do with the normal vs. crimminal use of a firearm. The features do not make the firearm "more" deadly or easier for a criminal to use in a crime.

You and I know that, and probably the socilaist Dems know that, too, but they HAD to do something to make it look like they were "fighting crime" and "doing it for the CHILDREN!!"

[Pat S]

The important lesson to be learned by the AWB, and why it needs to go away, is that guns can be banned simply for arbitrary reasons such a appearance. Once a precedence is established more guns that are not "politically correct" will be added to the list.

I urge you that now is the time to become vocal on this issue. If enough noise is made on letting this law sunset it will happen. "If good men do nothing ................".



Stay Safe, Pat S

[Zundfolge]

I am buying now, but this is in part because the features I want are not "preban" (I don't care about bayonets and collapsible stocks ... not yet anyway).

I decided I had to buy my first AR-15 now because the ban might be made worse.

If it disappears then I can bolt on any of the "preban" features I want, but if its made worse then I expect that new ARs will be impossible to buy, or guns that are currently "postban" will start going for "preban" prices. If the ban is just renewed like it is now, then I haven't lost or gained anything by buying a "postban" now.

However I doubt that the AWB will just be extended as it is now, it will either disappear or be worse.

[rick_reno]

Buy what you want now. Don't wait on the assumption that someway/somehow your elected representatives have taken a Bill of Rights pill and now see the Constitution in a new light. I'm convinced the ban will be renewed. I have one simple basis for this opinion - when, in your lifetime has the Federal govt. restored or given back some of your Rights regarding firearms? It hasn't happened in my lifetime and I've been around since the 40's. I cannot recall one instance of when we've gotten Rights back and I don't expect them to suddenly start marching to a different drummer this time.

[yzguy]

if you want to attempt to sway your elected officials then look here:

http://www.1bad69.com/awban.htm

2 versions of a prewritten letter ready to send off to voice your opinion. You can bet the antis will have their voices heard, let's make ours heard louder!! Please call and/or write!!!

[hillbilly]

Here are some things to keep in mind.

1) As for getting back rights we've lost in the past, what about all the states which are allowing concealed carry which had prohibited concealed carry for years and years?

Even Missouri has passed concealed carry and the governor has vetoed it. Missouri will get concealed carry because political pressure in favor of it keeps building and building. And concealed carry in Missouri has been outlawed since the 1870s.

For goodness sake, uber-liberal Minnesota, known recently as "Wellstone Country" passed concealed carry.......

2) The AW Ban was passed by a completely Democratically controlled government--President, House, and Senate, by exactly three freakin' votes.....two votes in the House and the tie-breaker vote in the Senate by none other than VP Al Gore.

Passing the AW Ban helped end Democratic control of the government...President, House and Senate.

You think the Republicans are going to renew a law that got the original passers tossed out? Two months before major elections??????Hmmmm....maybe Republicans really ARE that stupid???????

Intellectually, I think the AW Ban is Dead On Arrival. I don't think it will even get to the floor of the House for a vote.

Emotionally, I still get the fear every once in a while.


The only way to make sure the AW Ban is really dead is to keep reminding your representatives that voting to renew means they lose their jobs...


hillbilly

[T.Stahl]

Hmm, there are two cases in which your decision would've been right:
- You buy now and the ban doesn't expire or becomes stricter.
- The ban expires and you buy later.

One indifferent:
- You don't buy now and the ban doesn't expire, all stays the same. Nothing lost.

And two in which you would've been wrong.
- You buy now and the ban expires later. All you can lose is money.
- You don't buy now and the new ban is even stricter. Then you lost the opportunity to get something you can't get later.

Your decision.

[longtom4570]

Buy or not, best to start writing your congressman/woman and tell them you do not suport new bans or continue the old one. You should be polite and to the point if not they may just ignore you. Be sides why wait to buy a gun :D :D

[telewinz]

Regardless whether the ban come off, prices will not drop BUT IF the ban is renewed you can expect a 10% or higher price increase over night! If I was just getting into collecting "black rifles", I'd take out a 5 to 6 thousand dollar loan and start buying minty "black rifles" now. Compared to a car loan its not much but your enjoyment will outlast any car rusting away in a junk yard. Get a couple of minty AK's, some AR's, an M1 carbine, an M1A/M14 standard rifle, a well made G3 clone and an FAL clone. Get plenty of hi-cap magazines for all the above. No matter what they do with the ban you will still have an excellent collection at a decent price that will outlive any loan. The Garand and SKS's can be picked-up anytime.