Whoops! Some reloads won't cycle!


PDA






deafsg1
January 29, 2008, 12:20 AM
I just found out earlier today that the shells I made up in the last few days won't cycle through my pump shotgun. I load up the magazine tube, and then I unlock it to run the first round into the chamber, only to have the shell get stuck while going into the chamber. It gets stuck just before it straights out at the very top to go in straight. It gets stuck at an angle. This is happening with the Win AA-HS hulls I suspect of being multifires.

I had some time this afternoon to work up the settings for a diferent load I'm putting into the Rem. STS hulls, and I loaded up a few once-fired STS hulls (I know 'cause I saw my friend shoot them last week after buying them at the store). They cycle through the gun just fine, with just a slight hesitation on one of them, but it went through fine afterwards, repeatedly.

Suggestions?

If you enjoyed reading about "Whoops! Some reloads won't cycle!" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
deafsg1
January 29, 2008, 02:40 PM
It looks like the problem is that these hulls are worn out. What were purported to be once fires are really multifires. They were bought from 10ring.com, who sourced them from Graf and Sons. Hodgdon told me to look at the crimps on some of these shells, and sure enough, they were creeping back out. If you look at these shells from the side, you can see the point of the crimp peeking out over the line sight of the crimp rim.

They're worn out. If the crimps back out like that, that's not all that happens. As the crimp backs out, the crimp area loses its taper by expanding the wall outward.

I bought two cases of these hulls about a month ago, and I went through the first box, losing about 50 out of 500 to deformed hulls, pitted crimp areas, even blown through crimp areas. The second box was a story by itself. I sorted through 130 hulls before I gave up. Out of 130, I counted 30 that had all these problems PLUS :what: some with primers with violently deformed primer cups! I took this second box back to 10 Ring, got my money back, and asked them to check with Graf and Sons and find out why they were sending them reloads/multifires instead of once fires.

I just ordered a set of the black Remington once fires from MidwayUSA to see how they pan out.

rcmodel
January 29, 2008, 02:57 PM
Might be able to salvage them.
Scroll down to page 14 of this link:
http://www.riflemagazine.com/magazine/PDF/HL%20245%20partial1.pdf

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j219/rcmodel/KTOG/1224.gif
rcmodel

deafsg1
January 29, 2008, 03:32 PM
That PDF file does not exist.

Yes, I'd like to know how I can salvage these...

rcmodel
January 29, 2008, 03:53 PM
Well, I don't know what to tell you about the link I posted.

I just clicked it again, and it opened again.

Goodle "Thermagic hull conditioner" and see what comes up for you.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j219/rcmodel/KTOG/1224.gif
rcmodel

scrat
January 29, 2008, 04:32 PM
opened ok for me. Thats a pretty cool tool.

deafsg1
January 29, 2008, 11:30 PM
Okay, :cuss:...

I found out what's going on after a lengthy check out of everything. It doesn't seem to be the hulls. This is where I will need advise... The problem is, there is a poor fit of the components. I don't know where Hodgdon got the idea that you can build this load:

Win AA-HS hull - 2-3/4"
W209 primers
Hodgdon Universal - 24.6 grains
WAA12F114 wads
#000 buckshot - 6 each
or
#00 buckshot - 9 each (Hodgdon suggests this load if you want to use #000)
Overshot card (I added this one in)

And still not have it hang up inside your shotgun. I found out that the poor fit I'm referring to is the shell hanging up on the edges of the chamber wherever there is a buckshot pimpling just a little into the hull. I can find the hang marks just in front of the buckshot pimples.

rcmodel
January 30, 2008, 12:49 PM
What brand & model shotgun?

If the buckshot "pimples" are very small, they shouldn't be causing a problem.
You may have a very sharp or rough edge in your chamber mouth that is cutting into the plastic shell.

If you take the barrel off and drop your reloads straight into the chamber, do they fit then?

If so, you need to do some polishing on the sharp chamber edge, enough that the plastic case dimples slide over the edge instead of getting cut by it.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j219/rcmodel/KTOG/1224.gif
rcmodel

deafsg1
January 30, 2008, 03:09 PM
Very late last night, (why I didn't have a chance to post a reply) I tried changing to a Remington STS Premier hull and the CB1114-12 wad and 6 each of #000 buckshot. The Claybuster wad has thinner petals, and HS-6 is a denser powder that allows me to seat the wad further down. I had almost no pimpling, and I ran a magazine tube full through the gun, multiple times, no hangup whatsoever!

I'm about to get the black Remington hulls with steel bases and downrange wads (less plastic fouling) this afternoon to see how this combo works out.

What are tools I need to smooth out a straight corner shape on the edge of the chamber in the barrel?

Thanks!

rcmodel
January 30, 2008, 05:43 PM
Still don't know what kind of gun it is, but:
If I was doing it, I would probably use a Dremel tool and a rubber cratex polishing tip.

You could probably get by with some 320 or 400 grit black emory paper and a 5/8" wood dowel rod backer.

You just want to break any sharp edges, and very slightly round them so they won't cut / catch on hulls anymore.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j219/rcmodel/KTOG/1224.gif
rcmodel

Steve C
January 30, 2008, 06:17 PM
On buckshot loads you often need to cut off the petals from the wad. This would give the shot a little extra room and may stop the dimpling from the buckshot being forced into too small a space.

deafsg1
January 30, 2008, 08:11 PM
Now, the question is, what do I need to use in place of the petals cut from the wad? I have looked at Telfon wraps, but BPI wants too much money for it, and teflon manufacturers want me to buy too much of it, like $150 worth of wrap MINIMUM. This question pertains to using layers of 3 #00 buckshot pellets, 3 layers for a total of nine pellets.

It looks like my best option is going with the Downrange DRA-12 1-1/4 oz wads I just got in for either the Win AA-HS hulls or Remington-type hulls. The Downrange wads are by FAR the thinnest-petalled wads that I have, even a bit more so than the CB1114-12 wads. I just tried them in the black Remington unibodies I got as well with #000 buckshot, and it works. I'm also surprised with how easy is is to work with these hulls. Very flat crimps with much less crimping pressure, the wads go all the way down without that separate basewad.

Steve C
January 31, 2008, 02:25 AM
When you cut the petals off a plastic wad its like loading with a better sealing felt wad (the old fashion way) as you still retain the expanding base of the wad and the wad compression section between the cup and the base. Shot cups in the plastic wads keep shot together and make for tighter patterns with bird shot loads but buckshot is generally shot through cylinder bore guns so there really isn't any need for the petals. Factory loaded buckshot may have buffering material in them to help lessen shot deformity but generally have no shot cup wad or wrapping holding the shot.

scout26
January 31, 2008, 02:40 AM
1. To smooth out a rough chamber #0000 or #000 steel wool warpped around old bore brush and attched to a battery powered drill/

2. Win AA hulls of recent manufacture. I've seen them (the red ones anyway)with splits at the crimp after the firing of the factory load.

3. Follow the load data exactly, If the load data says no petals, just snip them off with scissors or an x-acto knife (watch your fingers). Keep in mind that you will get leading (instead of nice, easy to clean, plastic build up) in your barrel.

Your 000 buckshot load is from a call made to Hodgdon and is not published. Again it was a "Well, you won't blow yourself up or your face off" load based on materials available, so there were compromises made.

I take it no luck on getting the vendor to take back the 000 Buck ??

deafsg1
January 31, 2008, 10:37 AM
I didn't even call to have the #000 sent back, as I found that I get a far better fit and finish with #000 while using shotcups. It's lighter in weight and get more loads out of a 5 lb box. I may have to adjust the powder downward.

I'll ask again here. Do I really, really need to use a teflon wrap, any wrap to protect the barrel from lead streaks from the buckshot? It has been claimed that the wraps help the patterning by helping to slide the buckshot through the barrel (even though we're talking cylinder bore). Truth to this?

Thanks!

If you enjoyed reading about "Whoops! Some reloads won't cycle!" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!