College B-ball Coach bans guns?


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Stinger
July 31, 2003, 11:28 AM
Yahoo Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaab/news?slug=ap-sportsshowcase&prov=ap&type=lgns)

This hasn't gotten much attention, and I had a really hard time finding an info about it. This story seems to be the only thing out there, and it really doesn't have much information.

I wonder what other rights colleges might try to suppress?

I will be on the phone with Lamar University later today to discuss this action.

What do you think?

Stinger


DALLAS (AP) -- In 28 seasons as a college basketball coach, Billy Tubbs never had a rule preventing players from owning guns. He will this fall

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hillbilly
July 31, 2003, 12:09 PM
Is Lamar a private or a public school?

If Lamar is a private school, then the coach can legally do that.

Private schools, private companies, private businesses are not held to the same standard as public schools, companies, etc.

The Bill of Rights applies only to the public, not the private.

For example, you do not have to allow a group of abortion activists or pro-lifers to hold a rally for their side on your private property.

However, the government must allow them to protest on public property under the first amendment.

hillbilly

Hemicuda
July 31, 2003, 12:31 PM
I can see banning the posession of them on school property, or school trips (I don't like it, but I can see it) but ain't it against the 2nd to say that they can't OWN them?

it is the wording "preventing players from OWNING guns" that I take issue with!

tiberius
July 31, 2003, 12:32 PM
I don't think that even being a private school gives him the authority to tell them what they can or cannot own. He may be able to control what they carry on his property or what property he controls, but I don't think that he can legally discriminate based on private behavior.

Can you imagine if he said that he would not allow any of his players to own Dixie Chick albums? What's the difference?

How will he even know if someone owns a gun?

chaim
July 31, 2003, 12:49 PM
It isn't the school banning all students from owning guns it is the basketball coach banning his players from owning them. Coaches have a lot of leeway on things like this. It is common for them to ban drinking, either during the entire season or just for key games. They sometimes ban sexual relations (doesn't usually work) and set curfews on their (legally adult) players as well.

They can get away with this stuff, even at a state school, because sports are an extracurricular activity. Theoretically, you can choose whether or not you wish to play and if you choose to join the team you choose to follow its (the coach's) rules. Of course, in reality many people don't have a choice. In addition to wishing to have the chance to play, they don't go to school without the scholarship they get for playing- but still, theoretically playing is optional.

Is what the coach doing right? Of course not! Moral or ethical? Of course not. If he is going to post an armed guard at each player's door to protect them since they can no longer protect themselves it won't be quite as bad, but of course he won't be. Is it legal? Perfectly.

jsalcedo
July 31, 2003, 02:09 PM
Are they going to ban fast cars as well?

I have read of several players killed in high speed crashes usually with drugs and alcohol involved.

The coach sounds like an idiot.

Spackler
July 31, 2003, 02:14 PM
Ditto the car thing. It happens every year to college athletes in all sports. Maybe they should ban a lack of common sense and personal responsibility.

Carlos Cabeza
July 31, 2003, 02:25 PM
Totally laughable !:D What is he gonna do ? A background check ?
In Texas ? Absurd.............:rolleyes: Responsibilty falls on the individual.

IIRC, He used to coach OU basketball . See ya Billy ! I hope OU spanks ya this year !

txgolfer45
July 31, 2003, 02:31 PM
Glad I'm only 5'7". Wouldn't have to worry about pleasing a basketball coach! :D

Scott

mummac
July 31, 2003, 02:43 PM
`If a mother in New York calls Fort Worth and asks how her son is doing and the best I can say is that I haven't seen him since we last played, then I'm not doing what I led her to believe in the recruiting process,'' Dougherty said. ``This whole thing is just a huge tragedy, but I think it has reinforced why coaches ask them to do extra check-in type things.''

Ok, so the reason he keeps such close tabs on his players is for the parents' sake? It has nothing to do with the money the school has invested in the success of it's sports team? Why don't the parents of the other 99% of the students get staff to hold their kid's hands and keep them out of trouble? What a joke.

Daniel T
July 31, 2003, 02:56 PM
jsalcedo said:
The couch sounds like an idiot.

Most couches aren't very smart, what with being stuffed and all. :D

GSB
July 31, 2003, 03:09 PM
Being a tyrant is so much fun! Maybe he can ban his players from worshipping at a synogogue and voting for candidates he doesn't approve of while he's at it.

mtnbkr
July 31, 2003, 03:44 PM
I don't think that even being a private school gives him the authority to tell them what they can or cannot own.

Why not? A Baptist college I went to try to tell people they couldn't drink PERIOD while they were a student there, not even if you were over 21 and at your own, off campus, home. Dunno if anyone got tagged for drinking off-campus after their 21st B-day, but it was in the rulebook.

Chris

veloce851
July 31, 2003, 03:57 PM
what an idiot. fine let him say that... then when a student who would normally have carried is injured or even killed in a situation where his CCW would have saved his live. Sue the living hell out of this moron.

Fine if he doesn't want guns on the property or practice locations.
But I just simply wouldn't play for him.

Why is it people eare so eager to give up their inalienable rights for people.
This guy should be told by each and every one of his team members to GTH.
If his entire team quit because he is choosing to openly state he doesn't believe in the constitution or the right of an individual, then maybe he would see just how assinine his thinking is....oh yeah he's not thinking.:fire:

And this whole keeping track of them 24/7 is ridiculous.. its a frigin GAME people.
When we start putting a game before our God given rights, its all over.

This is the same thing if your boss checked in with you to make sure you hadn't gone anywhere, where you might not be able to get back to work on Monday. And told you you can't own firearms even on your own time.
It's ALL my time buddy.. I just agreed to sell you some of it at an agreed upon price. That doen't mean you own the rest of my hours.
:cuss:

Alan Smithiee
July 31, 2003, 04:44 PM
most universities do not allow firearm possession (you have to keep them off campus or at police lockup) for students who live on campus or subsidzed student housing, nor do they allow CCW for staff or students. (no mater how many violant crimes happen) and they can make almost anything a condition of being on the team. your only recourse is legal, and then they are still off the team even if they win the law suit. remember, winning coaches are almost unimpechable and Sport is King.

Hoop
July 31, 2003, 08:48 PM
Constitutional (and/or God given) rights are not unequivocal. Certain restrictions apply.

It's a simple matter of choice. You want to play basketball, you play by the rules. The players still have the right to own firearms. That is not being taken away from them.

Under the terms of the scholarship, they are agreeing to (among other things) not own a firearm. In exchange, they are rewarded with a full ride to college and the quasi-celebrity status of athletes. The college (particularly a private one) can place reasonable restrictions of this exchange of good and services. Plenty of coaches likewise restrict freedom of speech by controlling what players, and under what circumstances, can talk with the media or make statements.

Before someone tries to link a 'reasonable restriction' to discrimination, think again. Discrimination is different. One can't choose to no longer be hispanic, or female, for example. One can choose not to own a firearm.

That being said, banning firearms on the team in question probably isn't likely to make any difference in the outcomes of future events by the players. In other words, none of them are likely to commit a homicide anyway, so the ban has little practical effect.

It probably does have the effect of imparting a measure of trust in the coach by the parent of the athletes. He's at least paying lip service to caring about the welfare of his players and that might be enough to get him a recruit or two. But, unless Billy Tubbs has turned over a new leaf, I wouldn't take this act at face value. Someone above was correct, Tubbs was the coach for Oklahoma in the 80's, early 90's. Both his basketball program and Barry Switzer's football program were notorious for recruiting athletes of less than stellar character that had frequent run-ins with the law.

FPrice
July 31, 2003, 08:59 PM
"Tubbs agrees that he ``shouldn't need a rule that you're not supposed to shoot each other,'' but he still feels it must be discussed."

Um, I believe that there IS a rule that players should not shoot one another. It's called laws against assault and murder. We have had them for a long time.

But, from some of the other things I have heard about this case, guns were the least of their problems. But, it's much better to to pick on a politically sensitive issue than to admit that college sports is generally out of hand. As are many of the players.

Stickjockey
July 31, 2003, 09:44 PM
What if they held a Basketball game and nobody (player-wise) came?

Blain
July 31, 2003, 11:06 PM
I don't get it, isn't it a federal law that guns must be off school grounds??

tiberius
July 31, 2003, 11:40 PM
I don't get it, isn't it a federal law that guns must be off school grounds??

FYI,

In Texas, a CHL holder can carry on school grounds, but not on the "premises" which is defined as:

"Premises" means a building or a portion of a building. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.

Heck, I'll quote the other part too for prohibition in schools:

on the physical premises of a school or educational institution, any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger transportation vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or educational institution is public or private, unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the institution;


Forbidding someone from owning something is not the same thing as forbidding them from having them on school grounds. Are you really suggesting that a coach could make a rule that no player would be allowed to own a rosary? Afterall, accoring to Hoop, you can choose not to be a Catholic. :rolleyes:

J.J.
July 31, 2003, 11:40 PM
If you live off of Campus what does it matter? I don't see how anyone will agree to give up a way of protection for a game. I don't see how its allowed. Why do people willingly let others infringe up thier rights?

I know I made the mistake of it..by signing cellphone contracts etc. But, now I am wiser and will NOT sign if it infrignes on what I feel my rights are.. Heck I spent 2 weeks arguing about a clause in the contract of my apt. I would not resign with it in, they finally took it out because I lived here for 1 year with prompt payments and only 1 call to maintnence (A.C. out.)

Alan Smithiee
July 31, 2003, 11:57 PM
most firearms laws (state or federal) only apply on K-12, not post secondary.

your states vary, IE: Idaho has a "good sam" affirmitive defence (if you see a violent crime happening on a school grounds you can rush in pistol in hand to assist), other states will bung your butt into the pokey for trying to help the teacher being raped on the playing field by the poor misunderstood youngun..

HBK
August 1, 2003, 01:11 AM
I wouldn't play for him, simple as that, but I also suck at Basketball.

timbo
August 1, 2003, 02:20 AM
Well, I do like to play basketball and I'm a college student. But if he wants me to be without my gun then I say **** him. I'll keep my gun and go play basketball at the park.

GSB
August 1, 2003, 07:56 AM
Before someone tries to link a 'reasonable restriction' to discrimination, think again. Discrimination is different. One can't choose to no longer be hispanic, or female, for example. One can choose not to own a firearm.

One can "choose" not to be a practicing Jew or Muslim, and one can "choose" not to vote for the candidate of his choice. Is it discrimination if the coach bans practicing Jews, Muslims or voting Republicans from his team?

greyhound
August 1, 2003, 08:04 AM
The basketball player who allegedly shot his teammate is being held here in Maryland, where he is from. Supposedly he had been "hearing voices"and a bunch of other paranoid stuff.

Being mentally disturbed is much more relevant to this case than access to guns.

Carlos Cabeza
August 1, 2003, 09:59 AM
I suspect that goes much deeper than "mental disorder" into the realm of :what: drug use.

Hoop
August 1, 2003, 08:52 PM
Afterall, accoring to Hoop, you can choose not to be a Catholic.

Sure you can choose not to be Catholic.

J.J.
August 1, 2003, 09:14 PM
I remember hearing something on one of the local news stations about questions of where money came from to pay for stuff... So more than drug USE may be a part of this whole situation... If I can remember where I heard this so I can find the proof I will post it (I believe it was on the radio so that makes it harder.)

Heck i could be mistaken darnit why can't i remember better..

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