August Virtual Match for THR Members

[ReadyontheRight]

Carlos Hathcock (http://www.snipercentral.com/wpost.htm) Memorial Match

Grab your favorite rifle and test your sniper skills.

http://www.snipershide.com/tacticalshoot/images/crlos300.pdf

Five Classes this Month:
1. Highpower Service Rifles (that includes a heavy barrel under the handguards and aperture sights).
2. Non-Service Rifles -- Stock and Improved
3. Open Sites w/ Artificial Support -- A class to allow benches, tripods, steady sticks, etc. to really show off your reloading and weapon tuning capabilities.
4. Scoped -- Any scoped rifle shot prone, sitting, kneeling or standing
5. Scoped w/ Artificial Support -- Any scoped rifle shot with artificial support.

-10 Shots
-100 yards
-Shoot prone, sitting, kneeling or standing for Stock, Improved and Scoped classes
-"Open/Artificial Help" class is mostly for those who have no facility to shoot prone. Allows shooting off a bench, tripod, steady stick, etc.
-Breaking the line into a higher ring scores in the higher ring.

Three entries allowed per THR member.

Please post your scores here on this thread with the following information:

THR Member Name --
Score ____/100 ___/X
Class --
Weapon --
Caliber --

Safe shooting and good luck!

Rules refresher:

1. Print out ONE and ONLY ONE copy of the month’s target for each class in which you will participate (maximum of three targets printed)
2. Take all the practice shots you want at a similar target, but you only get ONE CHANCE at each month’s target in each class.
3. When you’re ready, shoot the course of fire at the target, take as long as you like.
4. Post your score, class, weapon and caliber on that month's match thread.

SCORING: Add up hits in each ring for your score. X’s count as ten and are used to break ties. If you break the line into the higher ring, you get the higher score. Two or more bullets through the same hole? I’ve heard this happens, so if you’re lucky enough to have it happen to you, please note on your target and score it. In general, scoring questions will lean towards the shooter.

The Rules:
-Treat all guns as if they were always loaded
-Never let the muzzle cover anything that you are not willing to destroy
-Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target
-Be sure of your target and what’s behind it
-SAFELY follow the course of fire described for each month’s match
-Only shoot where it is safe and legal to do so
-Ammo – Feel free to use any ammunition you like, as long as it is safe. The bottom line is to SHOOT SAFELY.

HONOR CODE: Remember: “Character means Doing the Right Thing Even When Nobody's Looking.” Print out only ONE target per shooter per class per month. Shoot your course of fire and report your score.

[Steve Smith]

Considering Carlos was a High Master Highpower Rifle Service Rifle competitor before and after his Vietnam engagement, it would seem only fitting to also have a class that applied to Highpower Service Rifles (that includes a heavy barrel under the handguards and aperture sights).

Nevertheless, you, I, and perhaps 1500 others will shoot in honor of him at Camp Perry, at the National Matches, where his feet did tread so many times.

[ReadyontheRight]

The Classes have been edited in line with the above post.

Nice catch Steve! A Service Rifle Class should definitely be in this month's match.

[Steve Smith]

Excellent! Thanks, man. After Perry I'll give this a try!

[DeputyVaughn]

Looks like another great month. I just bought a Bushmaster AR-15 (14 inch barrel w/compensator to make 16 inches). It's completely stock, w/no optics. Which class should I place it in. I never considered 223 high power. LOL The AR world is completely new to me but I think I'll get used to it.

Scott

[El Rojo]

I don't see how I can't score at least one 100 in the any rest, scope catagory. So with my remaining I will try to do a Highpower and maybe a scoped. Now is my PRK legal M1A a highpower rifle? I have that silly "muzzle break" on instead of the flash suppressor. Where does the K-31, M96 Swede, 1903's, Mosin Nagants, M1 Carbine, and pistols fit in? Does any rest include bipods?

We ought to hash this stuff out now.

So main questions again.

1. Highpower Service rifles. Are we talking current service rifles? Are we talking varients? Are we talking US only? Is a Garand a highpower service rifle? Any of the old bolt guns? The M1A?

2. Does any rest inclue a bipod? (if you can have a bench and sandbags, I don't see why not). Should you only shoot this if you don't have any other means? Or can I get my easy 100 here?

3. Does regular prone include a sling?

4. " similar target". Does that mean I can print up this months target at say 99% and shoot at it all I want? Or should that be rephrased as print only three of this months target and practice on something else entirely different? I like to just shoot at a half a manila folder and a 3/4" target paster square. That way there is no mistaking or confusing which one was practice or the temptation to do so out of deciet.

I do like the 5 different classes this month. It gives me lots of options with my varrying firearms. Last month I only had two options, stock and El Rojo Class. I still had fun with it though. Should we make El Rojo class every month? Shoot at this months target at 100 yards with a Garand one handed from any position, no rest? :rolleyes:

[ReadyontheRight]

This month's rules may be a little unclear, so please post your questions.

Answers to El Rojo:

Q. 1. Highpower Service rifles. Are we talking current service rifles? Are we talking varients? Are we talking US only? Is a Garand a highpower service rifle? Any of the old bolt guns? The M1A?

A. Maybe Steve can clarify, but I'm thinking Highpower Service rifles mean 30/40 Krag, 1903, M1 Garand, M1A, AR15 and any foreign service rifles (K31, Enfield, Mauser, etc.). I've removed the "Improved" class, so any of the above in an "improved" configuration - without a scope -- go into the Highpower Service Rifle Class. As far as I'm concerned, the Garand is THE highpowered service rifle. :)

Any other rifle -- from .22 to a .308 Rem 700 (I know it's an issued sniper rifle, but it's not the standard issue rifle) up to .50 BMG should go into the non-Service class.

Q. 2. Does any rest inclue a bipod? (if you can have a bench and sandbags, I don't see why not). Should you only shoot this if you don't have any other means? Or can I get my easy 100 here?

A. A bipod is allowed in the artificial support categories. I called them tribods, but I meant bipods. Gp ahead and shoot in this class even if you have other means. 3 entries in 3 different classes allowed per shooter.

Q. 3. Does regular prone include a sling?

A. Yes

Q. 4. " similar target". Does that mean I can print up this months target at say 99% and shoot at it all I want? Or should that be rephrased as print only three of this months target and practice on something else entirely different? I like to just shoot at a half a manila folder and a 3/4" target paster square. That way there is no mistaking or confusing which one was practice or the temptation to do so out of deciet.

A. By similar target I mean similar size and shape, but different to avoid the temptation of shooting more than once. I will change it to "different target" from now on.

[El Rojo]

Thanks ROTR, I agree with everything you said. One more point.

1. Standing vs. Sitting vs. Prone with a sling. I would sort of like to shoot my highpower target standing just for practice sake. However, I realize that prone with a sling would give me a much better score and probably all the rest of the highpower shooters as well. Are we getting too picky in breaking classes 1,2, and 4 into a standing, shooting, or prone catagory? I think that it would be a little too much. What we might be able to do is simply state whether you were standing, sitting, or prone and everyone can take that into account mentally when looking at the final scores. That way when Steve wins the Highpower catagory with a 100-10x and I get in second with a 70-2x, he looks that much better because he did it standing and I did it prone. I think that will have to do as getting to many classes is just going to rain on everyone's fun.

So what am I advocating? I say that in classes 1,2, and 4, the shooter should state if they were standing, sitting, or prone and the reason is simply just so everyone will know. That way if a prone shooter wins, at least the other people know that other people tried it standing and if the standing shooter was close, it will make them feel and look better. Of course there is nothing lost by the winning prone shooter because a winner is a winner as long as you play by the clearly stated rules. What do yall think?

And anyone not knowing which catagory their particular rifle fits in, should post that question and it should be fairly easy for us to reach a consensus or for ROTR to just tell it one or another since it is his shoot.

[Edward429451]

This looks more fun than L&P!:rolleyes:

Couple questions.

My Bushmaster is due in the end of next week (20" A3), it has a removable carry handle but will be otherwise HP legal. (AFAIK)

My M1A is a loaded model (med. weight match barrel, match trigger, synthetic stock, standard irons.) As far as I know, it would be service rifle legal for all but the synthetic stock.

I have no scopes for either rifle. I'm thinking to enter twice, but am unsure which rifle to shoot in which class. I want to be on an even keel with everyone else, and not fudge it up. I leave it up to you guys. So if I do poorly, I'll know just how poorly I am, and if I do good, I'll know just how good, etc., with no dissention for improper class / rifle.

I think it would go like this;

1. Highpower Service Rifles (that includes a heavy barrel under the handguards and aperture sights). (M1A)



2. Non-Service Rifles -- Stock and Improved (AR-15)

But want to be sure.

Print target on standard printer paper in b&w or color?

TIA.

[El Rojo]

I believe both your M1A and your AR-15 flattop would both be in the highpower service class. I don't think we are going to be that picky about flattop, legal flashhiders, or synthetic stocks (which I don't think disqualifies you from shooting your M1A in highpower). Now, if you were to mount a scope or some sort of optics with a magnification on your AR, then it would go into the scoped class. That is what I would recommend. Shoot your M1A in the highpower class and mount a scope on your AR and shoot it in the scoped class.

Reread ROTR's comments above, he says improved service rifles are still in the high power class. Your AR flat top I believe applies to that rule, unless you scope it then it goes to the scoped class.

[Edward429451]

Oh OK, gotcha. Think it would be ethical to download two targets, one for each rifle, and enter the better target, while still only shooting one try at each target with different rifles?

Do you need my shipping address for a scope & mounts?:D :D

[ReadyontheRight]

So what am I advocating? I say that in classes 1,2, and 4, the shooter should state if they were standing, sitting, or prone and the reason is simply just so everyone will know.

I concur.

[ReadyontheRight]

Edward429451 -- How 'bout you shoot your AR in the Highpower class (prone, sitting or standing) and your M1A off a bench in the Open Sites w/ Artificial Support Class?

[Edward429451]

That works for me.:)

[El Rojo]

Oh OK, gotcha. Think it would be ethical to download two targets, one for each rifle, and enter the better target, while still only shooting one try at each target with different rifles?I don't think so. Otherwise I would download 10 targets and shoot all of my service rifles in the highpower class and take the best one. I would encourage you to download no more than three targets and decide ahead of time which guns you are going to shoot and then shoot those guns.

Right now I am contemplating the M1A standing or even the K-31 standing for the highpower class, the Remington 700 VS in .308 for the scoped any rest, and maybe my 10/22 for the regular scoped catagory. Actually, why not the K-31 for the open sights artificial and the M1A for the highpower, then the 700 for the scoped artificial. Yeah that sounds good. That is probably what I am going to do.

Now that brings the question, I guess it would be allowable to shoot the K-31 in both the open sight aritificial and the highpower class wouldn't it? Can we shoot the same gun in two different classes since we have an artificial class?

Man when you think there couldn't be anymore questions.

[Edward429451]

I don't think so.

If I hadda ask, I shoulda known then. Doh!:D

[Edward429451]

Man when you think there couldn't be anymore questions.

Sorry bout that. Just gettin the house rules straight. Hope to rise to the top here lol.

You sure you want to administrate this for a month?:D :D LOL. Shoot Straight.

[El Rojo]

Don't worry Ed, that question comment was aimed at me, not really you. I just keep coming up with more and more questions. I think we are going to force ROTR to quit! :uhoh:

[ReadyontheRight]

I think we are going to force ROTR to quit!

No chance of that.

I see no reason a competitor can't shoot the same rifle in two different classes, although the spirit of allowing more than one entry per shooter is to encourage further gun acquisition by the good citizens of THR.:D

[r_p_bayly]

Do I post my score right here as a reply to these thread messages?
I haven't seen anyone else post a score?

r_p

[Edward429451]

Please post your scores here on this thread with the following information:[

THR Member Name --
Score ____/100 ___/X
Class --
Weapon --
Caliber -- --

Found this in the opening post. I guess we're all still gearing up for the weekend. I'm STILL waiting on my rifle which hasn't come in yet. :banghead:

[ReadyontheRight]

You can either post your score here or send me a private message by cliking on my THR screen name.

Good luck shooting!

[Outlander]

Do you want a scan of the target too? (assuming the shooter has a scanner).
If you want a scan, e-mail it to you or post it here?
Sorry ROTR ... it seems like every month we have more and more questions.
I getting the idea you should use this icon in your signature. :banghead:

[ReadyontheRight]

A scan into .jpg posted on each month's thread would be very cool. Please keep the file size somewhat low so we don't eat up bandwidth.

If you do not have access to a scanner, just post your score here. DeputyVaughn has volunteered to accept mailed targets and scan thjem in if you would like to show off your shootin'. Send him an e-mail for his address (we shouldn't post addresses here IMHO.)

The questions are no problem whatsoever. This month is particularly confusing, so bring 'em on.:)

[Outlander]

Just got back from the range, very happy with the results, I usually dont try to push a .22 out to 100 yrds.
http://www.hunt101.com/img/055217.JPG

Outlander
Score 98/100 5/X
Class Scoped w/artificial support
Weapon Ruger 77/22
Caliber .22

[Edward429451]

Edward429451
SCORE--89/100 0/X
CLASS--Open Sights w/Artificial Support
WEAPON--SA Loaded M1A
CALIBER--.308 Win. (165 gr SGK Handload)

This was shot benched using MTM's Cleaning Center/Rifle Rest thing, in around 90 seconds or so. Pretty quick, just went for it. The high flyer was called.

I'm going to opt out of the Highpower class prone with my new AR this month.:o (Here comes the alibi!) I sighted in my AR at 100 from the bench and got a decent 10 round 5" group so decided (too hastily) to go for the record on the other August target, failing to check my POA/POI from prone first so was hitting low/right. Terrible.:banghead: (one 9 and two 8's, if you must know.) I know better than that. DOH!

No X's (on this target) but is about typical of what I can do with this rifle. I always seem to get a flyer or three, I need more practice.

[Edward429451]

Whoops forgot to add the pic...http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=437864

:cool:

[El Rojo]

I am getting excited about this month's match. I think I might be able to get a perfect score this time. I need to schedule some shooting time after work here soon. Fun fun fun.

[Quantrill]

OK folks, Quantrill has 2 entries this month.

Quantrill
96-2X
Class #3 - open sights w/artificial support
Stevens Model 416
.22rf


Quantrill
96-3X
Class #5 - scoped w/artificial support
Rem. model 788
.223 Rem

It was hot out there folks. I think I could have done a wee bit better IF----

[Fly320s]

My first virtual match and I pick a doozy.

Scores:

Open w/ support --- 89/100 no X's
(surprised the heck outta me)
using a Bushy AR15 carbine off a bench
I'm amazed I hit the paper 10 times, much less the target.

Non-service ---- 83/100 no X's
10/22 with Tasco red dot.
Sent one round wide right, but still on paper.

Frankly, I'm surprised I put ten rounds on 8x11 paper with my AR15. That front sight post just about covers the entire paper at that range.

BTW, anyone know what distance the target represents when printed on 8x11?

[ReadyontheRight]

BTW, anyone know what distance the target represents when printed on 8x11?

Rough guesstimate -- If this target is 8" across the shoulders and a human is roughly 24" across the shoulders, this would represent the size of a person at 300 yards (any corrections on ROTR's math?).

FWIW -- I think the website where I got this uses it in their 300 yard matches.

Nice shooting everyone! I can't wait to get out there and shoot. Be sure to enter at least one non-bench category!

[Robert J McElwain]

Robert J McElwain
Score 78/100 0/X
Class # 5
Weapon Remington Model # 550-1
Caliber .22


The is a cheap 40+ year old gun with a cheap 40+ year of sight, fired by a 62 year old with 62 year old eyes. I can live with it.
:)

Bob

[280PLUS]

stock bushmaster ak shorty w/compensator, open sights, sitting with artificial support

74

3X? you make the call

american eagle .223 / 62 gr fmj

is there a blind old fart category?? :rolleyes:

:D

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=452387

[El Rojo]

280Plus,

I would say 2x. The outside triple I think wouldn't be touching the black line. It is hard for me to tell on the picture you gave as when I blow it up the resolution doesn't go that high. Just from what I can see, I would say 2x. The other thing is since there are people with higher scores than you already, just call it a 3x and lift your head higher and no one will dispute you!!!

I go to shoot my targets this afternoon! I am excited. Trying to get my sister-in-laws boyfriend to go too. I think he would like it.

[280PLUS]

2x,,,good enough for me...

heh, had a heck of a time trying to find where that 10th round went but then the guy looking over my shoulder says, "well, thats three right there"

and i'm like, "well i'll be, youre right!!"

:D

happy shootin'!!

[El Rojo]

Well I did pretty good. I could have done better with my better target, but the Remington 700 was not shooting good at the start. Oh well. Click on the links below to see my targets.

8/24/03
El Rojo
38/100-1X
#1 Highpower standing
Springfield Armory M1A
.308 Winchester

8/24/03
El Rojo
91/100-1X
#3 Open Sights Artificial Rest
Schmidt Ruben K-31
7.5x55mm (http://home.bak.rr.com/elrojo14/pictures/Postal%208-24-03%20k31.jpg)

8/24/03
El Rojo
98/100-5X
#5 Scoped Artificial Rest
Remington 700 VS w/ Leupold 6.5-20x50mm LRT
.308 Winchester (http://home.bak.rr.com/elrojo14/pictures/Postal%208-24-03%20700vs.jpg)

Overall a fun match. I wish I would have got the bolt gun hot before I started shooting at the target. If I would have taken 5 earlier shots off the paper, I might have got a perfect score. Oh well.

[El Rojo]

Will anyone get a 100 today? Good luck.

[DeputyVaughn]

Don't have to worry about me being at the top of the list this month. Scored 54, Standing unsupported. Every time I hoped to get out and get my sights regulated it rained. Finally ended up shooting the match on "kentucky windage". The tenth shot was about a centimeter off paper to the left. I'd say the rifle is capable of much better. It will take some getting used to before I am.

This is the first rifle with a compensator I've ever shot. I almost wish I had gone with the uncompensated barrell. There is no recoil. The gun feels almost like it's pulling away from me when I shoot it.

Scott

[280PLUS]

yup, it takes a little time to get dialed in with them

or it did for me anyhow

nice shooting anyhow, not an easy target standing,,,

i shoulda tried it too

m

[ReadyontheRight]

Gotta add up the scores tonight. Is everyone's entry posted here for the month?

I did pretty well off the bench w/ my deer rifle, but my offhand w/ the Garand was NOT pretty.

[ReadyontheRight]

Outlander and El Rojo TIE this month with a nice pair of 98-5x showings in the Scoped & Supported class. Nice going! That's a little target -- even with a scope!

DeputyVaughn wins the Service Rifle Unsupported class with a 54-0x -- which we all shot standing offhand.

Quantrill shoots nicely once again with a 96-2x to win the Open Sites & Artificial Support class.

Once again -- Nice shooting Everyone! For a variety of reasons, I am repeating this target for September with a few changes in classes.

Participant THR Name August Score August X August Class August Weapon August Caliber
DeputyVaughn 54 - 0x Service Rifle Unsuported - Standing AR15 .223 Rem
El Rojo 38 - 1x Service Rifle Unsuported - Standing Springfield Armory M1A .308 Winchester
ReadyontheRight 35 - 0x Service Rifle Unsuported - Standing Springfield M1 Garand 30-06 M2 Ball

Outlander 98 5x Scoped w/artificial support Ruger 77/22 .22lr
El Rojo 98 - 5x Scoped w/artificial support Remington 700 VS w/ Leupold 6.5-20x50mm LRT .308 Winchester
Quantrill 96 3x Scoped w/artificial support Rem. model 788 .223 Rem
ReadyontheRight 96 - 3x Scoped w/artificial support Browning A Bolt .270 Winchester
Fly320s 83 - 0x Scoped w/artificial support Ruger 10/22 w/ Tasco Red Dot .22lr
Robert J McElwain 78 0x Scoped w/artificial support Remington Model # 550-1 .22lr

Quantrill 96 2x Open Sights w/Artificial Support Stevens Model 416 .22rf
El Rojo 91 - 1x Open Sights w/Artificial Support Schmidt Ruben K-31 7.5 Swiss
Edward429451 89 - 0x Open Sights w/Artificial Support SA Loaded M1A .308 Win. (165 gr SGK Handload)
Fly320s 89 - 0x Open Sights w/Artificial Support Bushy AR15 carbine .223 Rem
280Plus 74 - 2x Open Sights w/Artificial Support bushmaster ak shorty w/compensator American eagle .223 / 62 gr fmj

[280PLUS]

no where to go but up...

:D

[El Rojo]

Have you had time to tally up the overall scores yet ROTR? Just get em to us when you get a chance.

Remember, I have offered to help out on a match if you want. Alls it would take for a month like this for you to take a break would be to send me the excel or whatever files you use for the tally and I could take down all of the scores.

[rwmagnus]

Edward429451

My M1A is a loaded model (med. weight match barrel, match trigger, synthetic stock, standard irons.) As far as I know, it would be service rifle legal for all but the synthetic stock.

You bring up a good point with synthetic stocks. Did you ever get an answer addressing it? I'm looking into acquiring an M1A right now and am leaning towards a synthetic stock but haven't decided yet.

[Edward429451]

Yes I did. The synthetic stock is not DCM legal. It is acceptable in informal matches but not in the real ones where wood is required.

The difference in weight is mere ounces. The black finish will start to flake off the synthetics, mine isn't bad yet. If I could do it over again I would probably go with the wood. OTOH, the synthetic is supposed to be more stable than wood so its a judgement call for you.

Start a thread on the pro vs con of the stocks and you'll get a lot more informed / experienced responses than mine.

[rwmagnus]

Edward429451

Are there any after-market synthetic stocks avaiable that are better than the OEM version? I know there are refinishers that will work on the fiberglass stocks that I guess will prevent the flaking.

I think I'll go with wood for now as DCM is what I'm mostly interested in. The fiberglass sure looks cool however.

[Edward429451]

www.fredsm14stocks.com is the only place I know of offhand. Only surplus stuff, IIRC.

Worth a look. (Get the match trigger somehow, its worth it)

[rwmagnus]

I agree but I'm looking to get a National Match M1A to start with rather than rebuild it.

I've contacted West Texas Ordanance to see what they can provide. They works off the M14 receiver to start with. His is called the presentation Match Grade $1350 pretty good price IMO.
http://groups.msn.com/WestTexasOrdnance/m14rifles.msnw

Other than them I'm looking for one of the older M1A's rather than the new stock out of Springfield Armory. Price and quality are the issues their. It seems their QC is inconsistent.

[rwmagnus]

I agree but I'm looking to get a National Match M1A to start with rather than rebuild it.

I've contacted West Texas Ordanance to see what they can provide. They works off the M14 receiver to start with. His is called the presentation Match Grade $1350 pretty good price IMO.
http://groups.msn.com/WestTexasOrdnance/m14rifles.msnw

Other than them I'm looking for one of the older M1A's rather than the new stock out of Springfield Armory. Price and quality are the issues their. It seems their QC is inconsistent.

[Edward429451]

a National Match M1A to start with rather

Yeah thats it. I got one of the loaded with match bbl., trigger, & flash hider. I'm not an accomplishrd rifleman ot anything but my matchgrade is sure easier to shoot well with than my buds non match. The difference sure shows downrange. YMMV!

[Steve Smith]

Edward, synthetic stocks are CMP/NRA Service Rifle legal. The McMillans are the most popular.

[rwmagnus]

Yeah thats it.

I'm glad to hear you like it. I haven't delt with them before and am looking forward to them answering my questions. I'm mostly a pistol shooter and old fashion target shooter at that. I am looking forward to trying my hand at one of the practical pistol formats soon however.

Now that the cars paid off I've got a slush fund for a couple weapons.

[Edward429451]

Don't listen to him, he's no expert!;) :D

Seriously though, learn something new every day. I guess DCM has different rules than CMP/NRA. Or is it that they just changed it?

[Steve Smith]

Well, the DCM hasn't existed for almost ten years. The CMP is its replacement. I don't know how long synthetic stocks have been allowed, but I'd say at least 20 years.

Remember, the M14 was issued with synthetic stocks as well as wood.

[rwmagnus]

[B]Well, the DCM hasn't existed for almost ten years.{/B]

Oops just dated myself abit didn't I, LOL. Did I mention I'm basically a pistol shoter...... Anyway I will get both stocks but originally wood will be the primary. Several here have pointed to suppliers of synthetics. I appreciate all the advise like I said it's been a long time since competiting. Just wish I hadn't sold so many weapons way back when.....

It really is true ALL my sports get rotated eventually!