[I8myglock]

HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEELP
I have been searching for the holy greal for some time now, and come to the conclusion that every manufactor of replica firearms are absolutly the best !! check the homepages, they actually all write that, of course you can read between the lines and get the info you want, but when it comes to 1873, you get almost no usefull info at all, its all about the finish, mate, nickel, antique, blued ect ect, then there is the grips ect ect ,maybe spend a million on some famus guy putting some engravings on it, ahhh yes i forgot, they all claim to be better that the real deal, but hey with 135 years production evolution, that shouldnt be so hard. So can someone give me some real info, who should i pick if i want to have tears rolling down my face when i pick the baby up ?
I have tested an Italian Uberti now, after looking at the pictures on Ubertis homepage, and reading hours about how good they are, and how much time they use on perfecting theire weapons, developing and producing far better tolerences than colt ect ect, i cant explain how disapointed i got when i picked it up at the local dealer, sharp unpolished edges you could cut your fingers on, all moving parts was far too tight, i mean the whole thing was just a really hmmmm thing...

So i learned my first lesson, dont trust the colorfull words of the manufactor, and dont look at the shiny most certanly fake pictures they all seam to have..

Can someone tell me where to go ...im in love with the USFA john wayne gun, blue w, ivory grips 1899,- USD absolutly fantastic, but im not gonna buy anything before someone give me some advise, USFA got lots of nice guns, and good options, but is it another shiny internet picture company, or are they for real ? what about COLT, i hear all over the internet - overpriced and low quality ???? im confused

Also, i want to buy a winchester 1873, 45LC or 44.40 - if someone can tell me where to go for that, i would be very happy - i have been told that winchester is not the best place to buy, that the copies are of higher quality, but its just what i have been told....

If someone bothered to read this post till end, and maybe even bothered to help me, i´d like to thank them in advance....

[sundance44s]

If you buy a Colt you may end up with one made by ...you know who ( Uberti ) Assembled and finished here ..made over there .

[dwave]

Hmm, the Uberti 1873 clone I got to use worked really well and had no sharp edges, could have been a bad piece, every manufacturer has them. Past the Ubertis I don't know about the others. Maybe you should check out the Ruger Vaquero. Ruger makes fine firearms.

One of the other members will have to help you with the 1873.

[I8myglock]

Yea Ruger is ok, i had a blackhawk once, i was quite happy with it, but i believe the Vaquero is not historical correct, and for the competition i need that or i will not be aloved to participate ( blackpowder western shooting )

But if it would be just to have a nice classic six shooter, i probably would have bought the Ruger already, thanks for the comments - i hope to get more on the subject

Hmm didnt know that COLT also went that way, what a shame, souch fine traditions blown away slowly like an ancient monument, damn shame

[Pulp]

I'm happy with my Uberti in .44WCF. Colt has reportedly(from folks in SASS that use them)has improved their out of the box quality over the last couple of years. The value of a Colt is not supposed to depreciate, the others will according to folks in SASS.
If I had the cash, I'd buy a Colt. But you can buy a Uberti, spend a bit more on better springs and finishing, and have a satisfactory firearm. Even Colts can benefit from some after purchase action work. It's a shame you have to pay for the final fit and finish, after you've paid for the gun, but that's the way it is these days.

[sundance44s]

I might have just gotten lucky but my Uberti 1873 was slick as a shinny new penny right out of the box ..I was indeed impressed , it`s a keeper .

[I8myglock]

Or maybe i just got unlucky with mine :-) anyone got some info on USFA ? or U.S. Firearms.

Also still need someone who can point me to a good winchester 1873 45 LC or 44.40

[rcmodel]

IMHO: USFA is probably the best fit & finished SAA being made today, by anyone, including Colt.

http://www.usfirearms.com/

The Uberti / Cimarron is probably the only game in town for a 1873 repro.
http://www.cimarron-firearms.com/RepeatingRifles/1873.htm

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j219/rcmodel/KTOG/1224.gif
rcmodel

[I8myglock]

Trust me i have read every word written on USFA homepage more than once, problem is only they all make their webpage look fantastic, and their guns even better, so i was hopeing that i could get some more hard info from some "experts" here, about who and why someone is better... Does anyone for example know if the premium grade guns at USFA shoot/function better than the rodeo´s or the SAA because there is at least 500 $ up on the premium, sometimes more ! That John Wayne 45 Red river classic sure looks great :-)

http://www.usfirearms.com/html/242.htm

http://www.usfirearms.com/html/242.htm

[I8myglock]

OK - what about winchester, i saw some info on 2 models 100 Year celebration of the Duke (big loop) leaver 1873, one normal and one deluxe model, surpose they are any good ? and i wounder if they were all ripped away or still availeble somewhere, i dont think it was that long ago they came out.....

[rcmodel]

The only true Winchester "Duke" big loop guns I am aware of were either model 1894 30-30's, or model 1892 44-40's.

To my knowledge, there have been no new Winchester 1873 rifles made since they were discontinued in 1919.
And Winchester is no longer in business to make any more!

The fancy engraved ones being advertised in some of the gun mags recently were made by Uberti in Italy.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j219/rcmodel/KTOG/1224.gif
rcmodel

[I8myglock]

Well u r right on regarding the 92 model, however as far as i can see, this pictures is from winchesters booth at the 2007 shot show, accordingly to gunblast.com....se attached links ( last link is from winchesters own homepage, i believe i also saw some videos there of the gun a month ago, they are probably still there from the shot show

http://www.gunblast.com/images/SHOT2007/Day3/100_0549.jpg
http://www.gunblast.com/images/SHOT2007/Day3/100_0555.jpg
http://www.winchesterguns.com/prodinfo/features/detail.asp?ID=121

If you tell me now that they are all from Uberti i will instantly loose my faith in humanity :-)

[rcmodel]

Those were made in Japan for Winchester.
Same company made the Browning 1892's.

http://www.winchesterguns.com/prodinfo/catalog/detail.asp?cat_id=534&type_id=145&cat=014C

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j219/rcmodel/KTOG/1224.gif
rcmodel

[Tommygunn]

The Colt SAA I have from Uberti had no sharp edges and works well.
I have a Uberti made Winchester 1873 in .44-40 which also never had any sharp edges and works very well.
I have a Browning B-92 (Winchester 1892 repro) in .44 MAGNUM which is made by Miraku in Japan, and is dang good. I know other companies make 92s now and they, too, are good.
As for one SAA that had "sharp edges," just about any company can make a lemon from time to time. Uberti has a good reputation in general. Pietta has had problems but theire recent guns seem a lot better.
Now ... if Palmetto would start playing "catch-up." . . . . . . .

[DixieTexian]

I have a 94 Winchester w/ 16" barrel. They came out with the big loop ones a little later, and I wished I had one of those. I believe I have seen one of the big loop models in .44 mag, but you will be hard pressed to find any now, and it will cost you a lot more than a few years ago.

[luckytexan]

I'd have to agree with rcmodel regarding USFA. I don't own one of their premium grade single actions, but the ones I have handled earn the title "premium grade." I think USFA is the reason Colt has improved their SSA over the last couple of years. Both Hamilton Bowen and Doug Turnbull use USFA SAAs for custom builds. That says something. (Apparently Turnbull also does all the case-color hardening on the premium grades.)

Here's a Gunblast review of the Pre-War that quotes Bowen saying that "there is really nothing that needs to be done to them."

http://www.gunblast.com/Cumpston_USFA-PreWar.htm

A Pre-War with one-piece walnut grips is on my "gettin' list."

[I8myglock]

ok - thank you all for the info, always good to get a second opinion....

[sixgun MAK]

I have had several Italian made guns. Cartridge and percussion. I have a problem of some kind with everyone. Most of the time, it was an easy fix like replacing a part inside. Some were just very inaccurate.

IMO, the current run of Colt SAA are the best ever made. I'm talking about the ones made after 2003, because that's when they put in the removable bushings. These guns also have the smootest action and hit at POA.

These guns are also 100% American made. An earlier post commented about them being Italian. NOT SO. Percussion, yes. Cartridge, no.

I don't know your financial status, but I can tell you, if you could afford one, you'll never regret it. Expect to pay around $1200, give or take. This is a gun that will stay in your family for generations. Remember, this is the gun all of the copies are trying to be like. Honestly, would you rather shoot a Ruger (fake), Uberti (fake), USFA (fake), or the real thing?

For what it's worth, I'm not a wealthy man. However, I will NEVER buy an Uberti again. Please try to buy American if you can.

Best of luck to you.

[I8myglock]

Well thats more or less the conclusion i came to before i started this post, but there is an overwhelming amount of positive post regarding the quality of USFA - most of them state that result is better than COLT - since the USFA models im looking at is priced around 1700 - 2000 USD i doubt that the COLT will be too pricy for me, but again - thats the point of having a discussion and getting other peoples comments, to help making the right dicission, thanks again for all the good constructive comments - this is a good forum with serius shooters, i should have joined long time ago

[a454me]

I have 2 Ubertis a .357 magnum and a .45 Colt and an AWA Longhorn .45 Colt and 2 Rossi lever actions one each .357 Magnum and .45 Colt all are well made good looking guns and I have had no problems with any of them ,there are probably better guns you could spend more money on I have a little over $1500 in all 5 of mine .

[rcmodel]

18myglock said:
and for the competition i need that or i will not be aloved to participate ( black-powder western shooting )

I meant to mention it yesterday, but failed to do so.

If you want to be competitive in Cowboy Action competition, you don't want a "Big Loop" lever.
They are All Show & No Go!

If you want to run a lever-gun fast & accurately, you want a standard-lever model.

And IMHO:
For black-powder shooting, you also want a Marlin 1894.

After the toggle-action (removable sideplates) Winchester 1873, all of the later ones (86, 92, 94, 95) take a gunsmith about half a day to dissemble & clean one completely.

With a Marlin, you take out the lever screw and shake it.
And all the guts fall out for cleaning.

You can also swab the barrel from the rear between matches, which is impossible with the later Winchesters.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j219/rcmodel/KTOG/1224.gif
rcmodel

[Im283]

try this company

http://www.emf-company.com/

I bought my 1858 from them, it is a Pietta and they gave quick service.
I had a question about it after shooting it and they offered to fix the problem right off. ( I took care of that stuck screw on my own)

Their prices seemed pretty good and shipping was very reasonable.

[DixieTexian]

You can also swab the barrel from the rear between matches, which is impossible with the later Winchesters.


Couldn't you just use an appropriate bore snake?

[rcmodel]

He's talking about shooting black-powder.

Takes more then a bore-snake to get that nasty stuff out on a regular basis during a long hard day at the Cowboy Action Matches! :D

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j219/rcmodel/KTOG/1224.gif
rcmodel

[DixieTexian]

Well, you could do like the old Buffalo hunters and pee down it. If you run out of pee, just drink more beer.;):neener:

[I8myglock]

Marlin 1894 will not be aproved for comboy competition, the guns must be historical correct (at least in my contry) the will allow small safty changes, like the transfere bar on the 1873 SAA which allowes you to carry the six shooter with all chambers loaded, but apart from that, they must be acurate, and a quick glance at the marlin tells me i dont need to investigate further in that direction, it looked like must external parts was merlin style :-)

@ DixieTexian ill go with you as far as the beer drinking, but i doubt ill ever pee on on my rifle,.... :-)

[luckytexan]

Marlin 1894 will not be aproved for comboy competition, the guns must be historical correct

The Marlin 1894 was introduced in 1894; it is a true 19th century firearm just like the Winchester '73. The only major change that I am aware of since its introduction is the addition of the cross-bolt safety.

I don't know the European rules for cowboy competition, but the Marlin 1894 is very popular in Cowboy Action Shooting here in the States, and they are sticklers on authenticity as well.

Good luck with your purchase and let us know what you get.

[I8myglock]

Well ill be dammed, guess it is still possible to be surpriced afterall, thank you lucky - ill investigate asap if marlin is aproved here, but if its a true 94 model, i cant see why it should not be, thanks again.

EDIT** ok i just checked marlin homepage again, i looked at the model 1894 centerfire - and you was probably referring to the leaver action cowboy rifles 45 LC - now it make sense :-) i didnt see the cowboy models before, ok i agree they look more authentic than the others, they write adjusteble sights, hope thats original otherwise its a no-go - but ill check, pitty about the centerfire versions, the SS stainless model loked kinda interesting.

[I8myglock]

Well just got educated again, here goes the rules of blackpowder western shootning (rules of my contry anyway), the weapon has to have been build for blackpowder originally, so any model produced for smokless are absolutely no-go, anyone knows if the marlin 94 was BP or smokeless ?

[Old Fuff]

At the time the Marlin model 1894 and Winchester model 1892 were introduced the American west was still frontier country in many places. Arizona and New Mexico hadn't yet become states, and factories were still loading .45 Colt and .44-40, as well as many other cartridges with black powder. The U.S. army was issuing Colt model 1892 .38 revolvers using cartridges loaded with black powder, and in 1899 S&W introduced their new K-frame Military & Police revolver chambered to use the new .38 Special cartridge that was also loaded with black powder.

Somebody over there needs to study our history... :neener:

[I8myglock]

Well Old Fuff - sounds like there is a chance then, by the way i didnt say it wasent chambered for Black Powder, I was asking if anyone know if it was produced for smokeless or BP - because that seams to be the point here if I can use it in competition or not.

[rcmodel]

Maybe you should just go to a Cowboy Action match in your country, and see what everyone is using?

Yea!
That right there might be the Huckleberry's!

(And pick up a rule book while you are there.)

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j219/rcmodel/KTOG/1224.gif
rcmodel

[I8myglock]

Yes - i had that in mind as well, did it already actually, all the stuff i found there was italian, then i went to a dealer and my experience is what i wrote in the first post, very poor quality guns, then i started my quest for some grade A manufactors, im actually considering to start importing myself, once i find the right stuff..... people in europe have aparently setteled for the italian quality - there might be a buck or two to be made there, and if i can bring quality and joy to the people at the same time, now there is a thought, or ? :-)

[Pilot]

I have a USFA Rodeo and its a wonderfull SAA. I think USFA makes great guns, and the Rodeo is their best value. All you give up is the finish is just a matte black which is fine with me. I'd like to handle and shoot a Colt, but never have.

[Audie]

Just picked up a USFA Rodeo 2, never fired a SAA before, just autos....what kind of ammunition should I use. I have the .45 LC version.

Pardon my ignorance, but I have never dealt with cowboy action loads. will the gun fire modern 45LC?

Hollow points? Just ball? Any suggestions.

[Harve Curry]

That a COLT SAA is made anywhere but the USA is pure sheep dip.
Here's my new one I personally ordered from COLT and you can to:
http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w202/NewMexicoOutfitter/ColtSAAengravedLS.jpg

[J.T. Gerrity]

Nice SAA!! Just gorgeous! But how many arms and legs did it take to purchase this? The observation that "a COLT SAA ... made anywhere but the USA is pure sheep dip" seems a little extreme... I have a Uberti "Custer" model from Navy Arms and it is just as well made as any Colt SAA I've handled (and, yes, I've had a few over the years), and it only set me back $425. The finish may not be as fancy, but it does anything I want it to do accurately and consistently without selling the farm. I highly recommend the Uberti SAAs as an economical alternative to the over-hyped (and over-priced) Colts...

[Old Fuff]

In defense of Mr. Curry I will point out that the Colt is made of better material, at least that's the opinion of Jerry Kuhnhausen, who goes into minute detail about the differences in his book, The Colt Single Action Revolvers - A Shot Manual, Volumes 1 & 2. Also while Colt's quality control has sometimes been variable, the good ones have always been exceptionally good, and while Colt's are expensive they do tend to hold their value better then any other single action revolver.

That said, the Italian made guns are excellent values for the money, although this may change as the U.S. dollar plunges against the Euro. I have both Colt and Uberti revolvers, and in my view neither are junk.

It's rather like looking at a luxury car vs. a less expensive one. The luxury model may be better built and have more features, but it’s up the buyer to decide if the extra cost is worth it, and because of their past performance I never buy a Colt that I haven’t examined first. But that’s true of others as well, especially if the price goes over several hundred dollars. Going to a larger overview, not limited to handguns alone, there is an awful lot on high priced/inferior quality stuff in the marketplace today.

[Harve Curry]

There are good copies made, Italian, and older German, of the Colt SAA.

The Saur/Hawes can still be found on the used gun market, most are very well made and accurate. I've had three a 357, 45acp, and kept a 45 lc.
I've had several makes of Italian copies and for the most part they are good guns to.

1873 Colt SAA and copies can all be used with black powder or proper smokeless loads.