How do you legally carry pepper spray in New York and Massachusetts?


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GuyWithQuestions
January 31, 2008, 03:06 AM
I thought that this was firearms legal related, because I heard that even a woman afraid of being raped needs a firearms identification card to carry pepper spray in the state of Massachusetts. I heard that in both New York and Massachusetts you need to buy from an authorized dealer? Is that true? Does that only mean if you're in one of those states at the time you have to have to buy, or does that also apply if you're a traveler? If you travel to New York, do you have to throw out your old pepper spray and buy one from one of their stores? If you go back and forth between the two states, do you have to throw out your pepper spray each time you cross states lines and buy one from that particular state, and get a new firearms identification card each time you go into Massachusetts? Is that how it works? Or is it some other way?

How does the firearms identification card for pepper spray work in Massachusetts? If you're a non-resident (I'm in Utah), can I just apply for a firearms identification card registering myself as a carrier of pepper spray for the sake of it just in case I happen to visit in Massachusetts for some reason in the next 10 years? I heard that the fee is cheaper if you're registering pepper spray than if you do it for a real firearm? Anyone know about that?

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Chipperman
January 31, 2008, 01:53 PM
Speaking for MA. I don't know the laws in NY.

Yes, you need an FID card to possess pepper spray in MA. That is b/c MA defines pepper spray as "ammunition". :rolleyes: The FID card is valid for a period of time, not for a specific instance. I think it's for 4 years, and costs $100. I'm not sure of the non-resident situation with FID cards.

You should not need to buy a new bottle each time you cross state lines, as long as it's legal for you have in both places.

Autolycus
January 31, 2008, 02:03 PM
Didn't the Republican Governor Mitt Romney, now a presidential candidate, sign that bill and work hard to get stricter gun control laws for the people of MA?

Either way, that sucks. I thought Illinois was bad.

GuyWithQuestions
January 31, 2008, 02:15 PM
Since both MA and NY require you to get it from an authorized dealer, what if you go into NY and the police see that you have pepper spray from a MA authorized dealer but not NY authorized dealer? Would they arrest you? Or if you bought pepper spray from a NY authorized dealer and go over into MA, they'll see that it's not MA authorized dealer but NY? I was just wondering.

GuyWithQuestions
January 31, 2008, 02:17 PM
Wasn't that pepper spray rule around in Massachusetts even before Mitt Romney? I could be wrong, though.

To find out for sure, I just looked at Wikipedia and he was governor from Jan 2003 to Jan 2007. When was the pepper spray bill passed?

Chipperman
January 31, 2008, 05:52 PM
From http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/140-121.htm

“Ammunition”, cartridges or cartridge cases, primers (igniter), bullets or propellant powder designed for use in any firearm, rifle or shotgun. The term “ammunition” shall also mean tear gas cartridges, chemical mace or any device or instrument which contains or emits a liquid, gas, powder or any other substance designed to incapacitate.

I'm pretty sure this was long before Romney.


Or if you bought pepper spray from a NY authorized dealer and go over into MA, they'll see that it's not MA authorized dealer but NY?

If you have an FID/LTC and a can of pepper spray, you will be ok. They won't know or care where you got it. The bottle won't have a NY stamp on it or anything.

atk
January 31, 2008, 06:45 PM
Tecumseh,

Look at http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=326005 - it describes the misconception that you mention, here. I see you already posted on that thread, but I guess you didn't read all of it (your misconception is discussed prior to your posting).

MilsurpShooter
February 1, 2008, 08:16 AM
Don't hold me too it, can't remember where I read it, but isn't Pepper Spray sold by the authorized dealers serial numbered so it can be traced?

Going to see if I can't dig through my old links here and find where I read it... Might be for Hawaii

outofbattery
February 1, 2008, 08:52 AM
One needs a "restricted FID card" to carry pepper spray in MA.Go down to the local police station,fill out the form,give 'em $25 and you'll get it.Renewals for them are free.One can also only buy ammo from an authorized dealer in MA but like with OC,it would be near impossible for a LEO to know where you purchased said ammo;not that it really matters if you are lawfully possessing either.

MA's non-resident unrestricted LTC's are de facto shall issue.They're expensive at $100/yr but I don't know if they offer non-resident restricted FID's for OC.When I walk past the police station I should go in and ask.

To clarify MA's laws in terms of what the FID's and LTC's are:

FID card (restricted) - This license allows the licensee to possess mace or other incapacitating chemical sprays.
FID card- (non-restricted)- This allows the licensee to possess non-high capacity rifles or shotguns, as well as those items described in the restricted FID card. A high capacity shotgun or rifle is one that is designed to hold more than 5 rounds of ammunition.
LTC-B- This license allows the licensee all of the privileges mentioned above, as well as the ability to purchase, carry and possess a non-high capacity handgun. This license does NOT allow the licensee to carry concealed. A non-high capacity handgun is one that contains less than ten rounds of ammunition in its feeding device.
LTC-A- This license allows the licensee to purchase, carry and possess large capacity firearms, rifles and shotguns. They may carry concealed.

In MA "firearms" in laws generally means handguns but I don't know the origin or that.

As far as Romney goes:I don't like him personally and he's used both sides of the RKBA issue but there's considerable misinformation as to MA law and who is responsible.The bottom line on our AWB is that it mirrored the Federal AWB but doesn't have a sunset provision.He therefore couldn't renew it.

damien
February 1, 2008, 12:38 PM
This is the dumbest law I have ever heard of. Every time a woman gets raped in NY and MA, the state should be liable.

News Shooter
February 1, 2008, 01:01 PM
About or six years ago I was living in the North End of Boston. There was a rapist running around in what was ordinarily a very safe neighborhood.
The cops, in their generosity, set up a table to allow women to come and apply for a Pepper Spray permit and then started turning them down for unpaid parking tickets.
This place is nuts

Zoogster
February 1, 2008, 03:35 PM
Most weapons are outlawed for carry or possession in MA, and those few legal, even the less lethal ones like pepperspray require permission and someone to purchase the privelidge. That privelidge expires and must be repurchased at intervals. Requesting or being granted such permission of course registers you in a state database.

Essentialy that means many normal people who continue on with thier lives become expired, and if they defend themselves even with spray can find themselves with additional charges even if deemed 100% justified and in the right.
MA residents were originaly told a FID card would last for thier entire lifetime, and then it was given an expiration date later on once most people had registered themselves by purchasing one.

Democrats do not wish to disarm you :rolleyes:, but the states under the most control by the Democratic party and "liberals" (not very liberal in beliefs on self defense) are the most restrictive on arms and self defense. Even a Republican from MA is really more of a "moderate" Democrat.

The people that are most likely to need self defense and live in a higher crime area due to low income? They are the ones of course least able to afford the costs of purchasing extras for self defense, and least likely to get permission. Of course that means they are also eventualy the most likely to get in trouble and become prohibited persons for illegaly carrying something anyways. So I guess that problem solves itself. :rolleyes:
I thought they didn't believe in rights based on class, religion, race, or sex etc?


I would much rather have Republicans focusing on issues abroad and on pleasing thier wealthy constituents than Democrats focusing too much on "fixing" our nation.
One of the great things about Republicans is with thier lower taxes, and spending in other areas, they have less financialy available to spend on micromanaging the people, and growth of government.
Under Dmocrats everything will require permission, everything will become heavily documented and restricted etc. Government will grow, and grow and grow, and get better and better at micro managing everything in our lives.

All children will be taught by schools that any values and beliefs are okay, except those that disagree with other values or beliefs :scrutiny: (doesn't that defeat most of the purpose?)
Such beliefs are taught through the curriculum which is mandated in order to recieve funding. What books are approved, and what ideas can be taught must follow specific guidelines or the funding can be suspended or revoked.



What happened to freedom? Oh right, it doesn't matter as long as we get some handouts. Vote for those who promise the most handouts! :rolleyes:

cbsbyte
February 1, 2008, 10:08 PM
Here is the truth. I do not know about NYS, but in Massachusetts you need a FID to buy pepper spray from a dealer. To carry a pistol you need a Class A LTC. LTCs are "May issue" depending on the local CLEO. While FIDs are "Shall Issue". Non residents can get a LTC through the State Police to carry in the state. Probably the same with FIDs. For more information check out www.goal.org OutofBattery has the licensing info correct.

Firearm licensing was first introduced in Mass in the early 1900s(when it was a Republican state), then in 1998 all firearm licensing was heavily restricted. Romney became Governor in 2004.

Most weapons are outlawed for carry or possession in MA, and those few legal, even the less lethal ones like pepperspray require permission and someone to purchase the privelidge. That privelidge expires and must be repurchased at intervals. Requesting or being granted such permission of course registers you in a state database.

Complete BS from someone does not know a thing about Mass gun laws. First no gun are not illegal to carry. Even open carry is legal here though only when hunting. Only handguns are heavily restricted in the state. Long arms are not restricted. Yes all firearm transactions are recored with the Firearm Board. You do not need permission to buy a gun or pepper spray only the proper license. All licenses are for six years then renewed. Licenses are normal in many states, not just Massachusetts.

Didn't the Republican Governor Mitt Romney, now a presidential candidate, sign that bill and work hard to get stricter gun control laws for the people of MA?


Actually no. All the strict licensing, and gun bans were passed before Romney became Governor by another Republican. He signed in a AWB, that was just a copy of the one on the books with some wording changes to clarify some of the language. My point is that many Republicans are not any more pro gun than many Democrats but are able to fool gun owners because they are republicans.

CNYCacher
February 1, 2008, 10:19 PM
As far as NYS goes, I have heard that there is a law that says only pharmacists can sell pepper spray. If this law exists, then it is largely ignored. That is based on my personal observation of pepper spray being for sale out in the open in many places that definitely do not employ a pharmacist.

There are no restrictions on pepper spray carry in NYS that I know of.

Zoogster
February 2, 2008, 06:21 PM
Most weapons are outlawed for carry or possession in MA, and those few legal, even the less lethal ones like pepperspray require permission and someone to purchase the privelidge. That privelidge expires and must be repurchased at intervals. Requesting or being granted such permission of course registers you in a state database.
Complete BS from someone does not know a thing about Mass gun laws. First no gun are not illegal to carry. Even open carry is legal here though only when hunting. Only handguns are heavily restricted in the state. Long arms are not restricted. Yes all firearm transactions are recored with the Firearm Board. You do not need permission to buy a gun or pepper spray only the proper license. All licenses are for six years then renewed. Licenses are normal in many states, not just Massachusetts.
Notice I said "weapons" because I was refering to a lot more than just firearms. MA has some of the strictest laws on a wide range of weapons, and yes most are outlawed for carry without prior permission in the form of a license, and a license can only be obtained for a few of them, which does include firearms.

How can you say long arms are not restricted if someone needs a FID to even purchase or continue to own one? I am glad your definition of "restricted" is not the norm.
Yes handguns are even more restricted. That does not make something else you still need a license to even own "unrestricted".
Perhaps what you meant to say is you still retain some of your freedom with long arms.
There is many states in the US where firearms really are "unrestricted" at the state level. MA however generaly has heavily restricted, and restricted. You have just come to accept the regular "restricted" as "unrestricted".
Many non firearm weapons are banned altogether regardless of licenses.

Take this paraghraph for example:
"Whoever, except as provided by law, carries on his person, or carries on his person or under his control in a vehicle, any stiletto, dagger or a device or case which enables a knife with a locking blade to be drawn at a locked position, any ballistic knife, or any knife with a detachable blade capable of being propelled by any mechanism, dirk knife, any knife having a double-edged blade, or a switch knife, or any knife having an automatic spring release device by which the blade is released from the handle, having a blade of over one and one-half inches, or a slung shot, blowgun, blackjack, metallic knuckles or knuckles of any substance which could be put to the same use with the same or similar effect as metallic knuckles, nunchaku, zoobow, also known as klackers or kung fu sticks, or any similar weapon consisting of two sticks of wood, plastic or metal connected at one end by a length of rope, chain, wire or leather, a shuriken or any similar pointed starlike object intended to injure a person when thrown, or any armband, made with leather which has metallic spikes, points or studs or any similar device made from any other substance or a cestus or similar material weighted with metal or other substance and worn on the hand, or a manrikigusari or similar length of chain having weighted ends; or whoever, when arrested upon a warrant for an alleged crime, or when arrested while committing a breach or disturbance of the public peace, is armed with or has on his person, or has on his person or under his control in a vehicle, a billy or other dangerous weapon other than those herein mentioned and those mentioned in paragraph (a), shall be punished by imprisonment for not less than two and one-half years nor more than five years in the state prison, or for not less than six months nor more than two and one-half years in a jail or house of correction, except that, if the court finds that the defendant has not been previously convicted of a felony, he may be punished by a fine of not more than fifty dollars or by imprisonment for not more than two and one-half years in a jail or house of correction."

Tell me that is not one of the most all inclusive loads of bull you have seen in any state statute? A breach of the peace is basicly anything that would cause the police to respond. That outlaws any type of weapon not mentioned. How is it even legal to write such a law? That means if officers respond, anything that is or could be used as a weapon found in someone's possession is a felony, even if not outlawed by a statute, and that item was not even involved.
If police show up, pat someone down, and find something that could possibly be a weapon it is a felony if they choose to say there was a breach of the peace.

Boston area even has a 2 1/2 inch blade limit. MA is one of the few states in the nation various items cannot be sent to. Usualy on a short list including New York city, CA, Illinois and New Jersey.
Its statutes are also more restrictive of many things than most states. The pepperspray example is just one.

I also know in practice MA is one of the more serious nanny states, with some privelidged classes. You also have to go through your local police for many permits, and while you may just consider that a slight inconvenience, it is most definately "restrictive" and not a free place.

Zoogster
February 2, 2008, 06:23 PM
double post

GEM
February 4, 2008, 01:52 PM
Gee, why are 'conservative' talk show hosts spitting out hatred at McCain and having orgasms over Mitt - who wouldn't even take the step to allow women to have the able to carry OC for free?

A state that controls OC like that is a sorry place indeed.

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