[Lightsped]

I am casually looking at the Benelli M2 and M4 models. What makes this gun so much more expensive than comparable Mossberg or Remington models?

[Robert Hairless]

What Mossberg or Remington models are equivalent to the Benelli M2 and M4?

The manufacturers set the prices and I doubt that anyone but them could say how they do it.

If you're asking about perceived worth and/or quality, though, I can give some minimally informed insight based on my own experience. For several years I've frequently used both a Benelli M1 (earlier version of the M1) and an M4, and sometimes used a Remington 1187. As soon as I got my hands on the M1 it almost immediately replaced the 1187. I still "like" the 1187 but I "like" the M1 better. It's worth me to me.

The M1 is a precision tool, well crafted, much lighter and therefore more maneuverable for me, points more naturally for me, keeps on functioning with minimal attention during hard use, and seems to need no cleaning. For years I did no cleaning except run a bore snake through the barrel after every few sessions, wipe out the inside of the action with a paper towel, and squirt lube into it. After a few years I began to feel guilty so I decided to do a thorough cleaning, dissassembled the gun, couldn't see anything that needed cleaning, muttered an oath, and reassembled the gun. I've made a mental note to look again in a few years. I might forget.

I had to do a thorough cleaning of the 1187 after every session. Lots to clean. Nice gun but I like the Benelli better. I've never been interested in brand wars though.

The M4 is a different breed. Different system. It's built like a tank, heavier than the M1 and therefore less maneuverable for me, but it too keeps on shooting no matter what. My sense is that you could run over it with a truck, pick it up, and start shooting again. I've never tried the experiment: it's only an impression. I don't particularly like the pistol grip on the stock but the ghost ring sights are very nice for extremely long shots with slugs. All I've done with it is 75 yards. It works from here to there. So does the M1, by the way. For CQB situations I find the M1 rifle sights faster to acquire.

The M1 is faster at everything than the M4 in my hands. I've carried the M1 for three or four day training sessions with no fatigue. I'm not as much inclined to do it with the M4, but if I were in the military I would prefer the M4 for the long run. I can't speak about cleaning it because I haven't done anything more than the boresnake, paper towel, and lube routine yet. I confess that after wasting my time trying to clean the M1 I haven't done more than that with any of the Benellis.

I don't know if what I've said has any value to you or whether it translates into anything like an answer to your question.

[kingjoey]

The Benelli is a well made gun and very durable with minimal maintenance. However, they are tempermental about ammo and recoil is noticeably more harsh as opposed to a gas-op semi like the 1187.

[ArmedBear]

IMO if you're asking, it's probably not worth the extra money to you over a 930.

Benellis are just what kingjoey says. Their hunting guns have excellent balance and ergonomics, too. They're also known for pump-action-like reliability and minimal cleaning, just as Robert says.

HOWEVER, if you're not going to do 3-4 day training sessions, or hunt doves in Argentina for a week, or somesuch, and you're on a budget, it might be hard to justify the Benelli's price tag, even though from what I've seen the Benellis really DO offer something unique for the money.

BUT, the Benelli will keep shooting LONG after the 1100 has stopped cycling reliably and must be cooled and cleaned. Like LONG, LONG after.

If you shoot a few boxes through it every once in a while, and clean the gun when you get home, an 1100 Tactical or whatever CerbeReMarlington is selling this week will work fine and shoot nice and soft. I've liked what I've seen from Mossberg lately, too, and the prices seem right.

Bottom line?

Is the Benelli a great gun? Yes.
Do you have the money?
Do you want to spend it that way?
Will YOU notice the difference, given what you do with it?

2-4, only you can answer.

[Black Majik]

Does anyone get Benelli thumb? The shell lifter pinches my thumb when loading shells into the magazine tube.

[sinistr]

that can be remedied by having the spoon flattened and the mag port polished.alot of three gun guys do it,im sorry to say i don't know of any gunsmiths offhand that do the work.benellis are worth the money for what they are,put on a surefire,ultra tuff coating,the sights of your choice and your set.

[Robert Hairless]

None of the Benellis we use are temperamental in any way. We've standardized on the Federal LE Low Recoil #00 buck, Federal LE Low Recoil slugs, Brenneke low recoil, and whatever major brand birdshot happens to be available at the lowest price. (We use the birdshot as an early step in introducing novices to shotgun shooting. It just has to go bang and cycle the gun.) No problems. In fact we've found that the Benellis don't mind the cheap Winchester birdshot that jams our 870s.

We have Surefire forearms on the M1s, by the way, and they're no problem. We don't have Sidesaddles on the M1s. I understand that they can cause problems but I have no experience with that.

About Benelli thumb .... Yeah, verily, the only downside to the Benellis is that screwy lifter. Funny thing about that, though, is it trained me to load all our shotguns properly. I hadn't realized how sloppy I'd become until the Benellis caught me at it. There's nothing like getting a pinched thumb as a corrective to what really was sloppy loading technique across the board. Yesterday we were running a couple of 870s and I noticed with great pride that my loading technique could be a model. The Benellis did it for me.

I agree with Armed Bear's assessment of the Benelli durability and longevity. Got a friend I see every couple of months. Each and every time he says roughly the same thing: "So you got another Benelli?" I play along with it and agree. But it's the same M1 every time. I lost track of its round count a couple of years ago. It's a lot. The gun shows no wear inside or out. Still looks new and shiny. My friend is convinced that I have dozens of the M1s though.

[Black Majik]

Hey Robert,

Can you expand a little on the reloading technique that help against pinching the thumb on the lifter?

Thanks

[rcmodel]

I bought an M-2 Synthetic for turkey hunting a few years ago.
I sold it the next year.

It kicked the snot out of me with 2 3/4" turkey loads.
The forearm was loose and wobbled.
And I could never get used to that shell cut-off/cocked/uncocked indicator do-dad.

More then once, I went hunting with an empty gun I thought was loaded, because I flipped the dang thing in the dark and couldn't remember how it was supposed to work.

Went back to my old Browning A-5 and haven't regretted it for one moment.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j219/rcmodel/KTOG/1224.gif
rcmodel

[BozemanMT]

My wife runs the Benelli M1 tactical here at the BozemanMT household. (sometimes at the clay range)
It never jams.
Ever
We run our downloaded reloads in it (maybe 7000psi, 1oz), works fine
run the cheapie promo loads and it runs fine
run high dollar STS/AA loads in it, runs fine
Slugs, buckshot
It's never once failed to go bang.
I think the recoil is pretty mild, nothing out of the ordinary. (and I shoot a SxS as my clay gun)
It's a hell of a gun, but it's not cheap, the price of quality I suppose.

I saw Zak's one time (which kinda convinced me to buy it), that man shoots A LOT and he told me he hand't cleaned it in like 2 years and it still went off every time. Sometimes an 1100 won't make it thru the 2nd round of sporting clays.

[ArmedBear]

I bought an M-2 Synthetic for turkey hunting a few years ago.
I sold it the next year.


Yeah, I never understood the point of a Benelli turkey gun. I guess if you do a lot of high-volume turkey hunting, where you might shoot ten whole flocks in a day and somehow avoid being arrested, it might be worthwhile, but otherwise, it's an expensive, hard-kicking gun that does nothing an 870 or for that matter the NEF Pardner won't do. The Benelli recoil is just a bit of a bounce and painless when you're standing, but sitting against a tree? No thanks.

Sometimes an 1100 won't make it thru the 2nd round of sporting clays.

That's not my experience. I don't even clean the thing very often; a little RemOil on the mag tube and in the action, and I take it back to the range for more next week. I finally gave it a thorough cleaning last time, and it's been sitting in my safe since then; I finally settled on and bought an O/U 12 Gauge I like.

But then again, my 1100 Magnum dates to 1971, and Remington used to know how to polish things, even internals, to a mirror finish. Really helps keep the fouling from building up and becoming cement, I think.

[waterhouse]

I've had an M1 for a while, I'm pleased with it. I like the weight and don't find the recoil to be an issue. When I shoot it right next to a Beretta, I notice the Benelli kicks more, but otherwise I don't notice it as much as everyone say I should.

Wife to be got a Montefeltro for Christmas, she is pleased with that one as well. She likes the weight and slim forearm, and it fits her well. Now we just have to make more time to let her shoot the thing :)

I think they are worth more than some other semis, but I wouldn't pay retail for any of them. Mine were used and well under the Benelli new gun asking price.

In a similar price range to the Benellis you are looking at and also very good in different ways are the Beretta 39x series.

[H2O MAN]

I love my old HK/Benelli M1S90 and I understand the new Benelli system kicks less than the old style ...

[Lightsped]

I see alot of references to the Benelli M1 here. WHat is the difference in the M1 and M2?

[jmr40]

The M2 replaced the M1 about 2 years ago I think. The differences are mainly cosmetic with a different stock and fore end. I am fairly new to the Benelli autos. Have had Remingtons most of my life but ran across a great deal on a used M1 just about a year ago when a duck hunter had to have the newer M2 and sold me his M1 for about half what the M2 cost. So far I like the gun a lot. Compared to the Remington it is lighter and I like that I do not have to depress the button on the bottom of the magazine to load it like the Remington.

[hexidismal]

Personally I've always wanted an M3 convertible (er.. the Benelli not the car.. but I'd take the car too) The idea of being able to switch from semi-auto to pump on the same gun seems extremely practical to me .. and just plain neat too.

[Fred Fuller]

Semiautos are more expensive than pumpguns as a general rule. And some semiautos cost more than others.

Why?

Danged if I know. Call it pricing power I guess.

I've had a couple of Benelli M1 Super 90s through the years, and still have one. Back in the early 1990s it cost around $800 NIB, IIRC. Got an FN SLP last year, it was over $600 NIB. I have several other semiautos but only those two came off the shelf as purpose built fighting shotguns. Could be argued that's why they cost so much, but the sporting equivalents cost about the same- sorta damps down the "it's special" argument.

Maybe it's reputation, image, whatever it is that separates Cadillacs from Chevrolets. I don't know.

A better question to ask IMHO is, is the extra cost worth it TO YOU? None of them are magic wands- they're just shotguns. More depends on the skill of the shooter than the brand of the gun. Would you be better off with a $200 used 870 and spending the rest of that money on training and practice ammo? I don't know, that's a question only you can answer. But as a certain poster here is fond of saying, you can't buy skill and targets.

Me? I keep an 870 or three handy, the 'nelli and the FN SLP stay in the safe. YMMV of course.

Stay Safe,

lpl/nc

[Robert Hairless]

Hey Robert,

Can you expand a little on the reloading technique that help against pinching the thumb on the lifter?

Thanks

Deliver the shell to the lifter so the shell is pinched between your thumb and index finger: index in front of the shell, thumb on the primer.

When the shell is against the follower (or the preceding shell in the magazine) drop the index finger to the outside bottom of the action in front of the loading port. The tip of the index finger is pointed towards the muzzle while the thumb maintains slight pressure on the shell towards the follower (or preceding shell in the magazine).

With that as preliminary, either tilt the thumb into the lifter or crook it into the lifter while you slide the shell decisively forward into the magazine with the tip of the thumb. Do it in one continuous motion, no pauses. The tilt or the crook depends on whichever is more comfortable.

The thumb tip points forward and acts as a piston, the index finger slides against the bottom of the action to guide the thumb straight into the action, and the knuckle or fleshy part of the thumb keeps the lifter from coming down and catching the thumb.

The trick, of course, is keepin the thumb tip pointed forward while some part of the thumb holds the lifter up until the thumb tip has finished its work and can be withdrawn. Practice it slowly and it becomes fast in time.

That said, I confess that I've had to reconstruct those actions because I don't think about them anymore while I'm doing them. My guess is that I wrote them right though. Give it a try and adjust as needed for your hand.

By the way, that pinching technique allows a failsafe last check on whether what's going into the shotgun is a slug or buckshot. The index finger knows the difference. I like checking, rechecking, and checking again.

About the Benelli's kick .... The first time I ever tried a Benelli was when a friend let me use his field gun. The friend even supplied the ammunition. They were magnums. Three shots and my brain hit my brain pan hard enough so I was almost befuddled. No joke. Either it was a lousy joke or an explanation of why this friend is dopey much of the time. Much later I got the M1 and my brain had recovered sufficiently so that I remembered not to shoot magnums out of it. I learn, although sometimes the hard way. Standard loads are no problem, reduced recoil ammunition is like shooting feathers out of the front of the gun.

I still like the friend but from then on I provide my own ammunition before I shoot anything he lends me.

About BozemanMT's experiences .... Yup. One of the things I've noticed about all the Benellis I've used is that they start out very good in terms of ammunition sensitivity and get to be great and then even greater the more they're shot. I think I remember that Benelli's advice is to break the gun in by shooting 200 rounds of high power ammunition before going to the low recoil stuff. I never bothered to do that because these Benellis functioned all the time with everything I use. What I have noticed, though, is that they function slicker and slicker with use. I don't think it's my imagination.

My M1 came from the factory set up as a fighting shotgun as Lee Lapin remembers of his. As Lee Lapin suggested, in accordance with the constant theme of this Shotgun section, a good basic 870 is extraordinarily effective in the hands of a good shooter who is familiar with that gun. I watched one guy pump five rounds of slugs into almost a single hole so fast with his ordinary 870 that he whipped everyone on the line. No one else was even close to his time. The timer tracked every one of his shots, and every one of them was exactly the same time apart. Almost scarey to see. Nice guy too. Fortunately.

[esheato]

I have an M2. Honestly, I could do without it. Don't get me wrong, it's a fast shooter and it stays very clean, but it is not really enjoyable to shoot.

Doesn't cycle my reloads (1 oz, 1250 fps) but that doesn't surprise me (common problem using light loads in an inertia operated gun). Hard recoiling stuff runs it just fine...

Trigger bites my finger every time I pull the trigger.

LOP is short and I'm all scrunched up on the stock. Replacement recoil pads cost around 70 bucks for the ones that slip in their stock.

I have the Surefire forend on it and it is pretty awesome. Extremely bright and operates perfectly.

Like I said, I could do without it. If I could find a semi-auto that felt a bit more natural and didn't bite my trigger finger, I'd trade it in a heartbeat.

Ed

[GunTech]

I'm still shooting my M1, a few thousand shells later. No complaints except the small magazine.

http://guntech.com/shotgun/m1s90.jpg

[Robert Hairless]

What kind of holster do you have for it? :)

[barneyfife.357]

GunTech, that is a sweet benelli!

Lightsped: My benelli kicks much like, my ruger 10/22, I have shot all day, and I mean all day, light to dark, and afterwards hardly a sore shoulder. Besides regular shotgun stocks like on an 870 do not fit me right, benelli comes with all the possible configurations of shams you could almost shoot around corners with the right shams.

You have to choose if your willing to buy a gun that will outlast you or one that will last the rest of your life

[Black Majik]

Robert,

Thank you for the write up. I have a M3 I'm picking up next week so I'll try your method and report back how it turns out. The thumb pinch was always a reason I held off picking up a Benelli, we'll see how this goes.

[Robert Hairless]

You're very welcome. I'd be interested to know if it works for you. I've no experience with the M3 but I think that the principles should work with any Benelli.

I'd also like to know your impressions of the M3. Please share them here. To my mind this Shotgun section is the best of its kind on the Internet: a jewel.

I like that "thumbs up" emoticon. Wish I'd thought of it.

[Black Majik]

I've shot THR member 50shooter's M3 before with GR sights and pistol stock. It was a fun shooting gun, the recoil feels different to me since it has the "thud thud" recoil of semi-autos, but I'm sure it's similar to the M1S90.

I'll do a more detailed report with pictures when I pick it up. But it's a HK Import, so, I believe you can ghost load this version on the lifter? :D

[Robert Hairless]

I'd be surprised if you couldn't ghost load an extra round on the lifter of any H&K Benelli import. I guess I'd also be surprised if you wanted to do it after the novelty wore off. :) I've done it with mine, said "Yowsa!" very loudly then never did it again.

What's much more useful is loading through the ejection port after you've exhausted the magazine. Benellis excel at that, I think. Pop in the shell, press the bolt release, pull the trigger, and you're ready to do it over again. I assume--but don't know--that the M3 works the same way. Great fun until your arms fall off from suspending the gun while you're tossing in shells.

[PJR]

If my hide were at stake the Benelli is the only semi-automatic shotgun I would trust over my 870. I've not tried the FN semi and it might covince me otherwise but so far only the Benelli makes that grade.

I've been thinking about an M4 as well but then I take my 870 out for a little range work and those thoughts disappate. :)

I would not trust my safety to a Remington autoloader.

[627PCFan]

I have a SBEII and Nova in matte black. If you dont keep it oiled up, it will rust. Other than that, I cant think of another gun I like more. Points well, patterns well. Never jams, and I even shoot 1 oz trap loads with the SBEII on the sporting clay range. No jams. Love it, shoot it. Buy one

[GunTech]

I'll also recommend a Sure-Cycle recoil kit for you Benelli. They don't require any lube and handle a wider range of shell types than the factory model

[32winspl]

I had a Super 90 Defence (w/m-16 type grip). Great gun, loved the rifle sights, but the recoil, esp with 3" slugs was just BRUTAL. It seemed pretty nasty even with 2 3/4" shot loads. I tried shouldering it different ways, but none seemed much of an improvement. I've never been kicked as hard by anything else I've ever shot (even a 378 Weatherby). Expensive too. Sold it within a year for what I paid for it though.

[aquapong]

I was hunting for a pump shotgun a while ago and settled on the Benelli Nova. I'm glad I did. It fits me much better than the other brands and just feels better made. It was a bit more money, but I'm cool with it. Now I'm lusting after an M1 Super 90 or M2. I don't recall getting bit by the lifter when loading, but I normally get pinched by something when unloading the magazine.

[The Deer Hunter]

I got my Benelli M1-Super 90 in like new condition for the price of a 1187. I find it really works well. When I first bought it I only cleaned the barrel and what I could reach from the ejection port.

[BENELLIMONTE]

My 20 gauge M1 is the best balanced, lightest shotgun I own. I use it for most of the Chukar hunting I do in Idaho.
It runs forever and doesn't mind if you don't clean it after every hunt.

[noskilz]

Armed Bear's quote "CerbeReMarlington" has me ROTFLMAO. :) :D

[MarshallDodge]

I picked up a HK/Benelli last year used in mint condition. I have shot about 200 rounds through it with one failure. I think it was due to an out-of-round reload.

When I took it apart to clean it I was very impressed with the internals. The quality is better than anything I have seen from Winchester or Remington.