bullet puller and trickler - ***?


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docgary
January 31, 2008, 10:39 PM
avoid using the term 'stupid' and never call anyone by that moniker...

However, today i am stupid....:mad:

[ BULLET PULLER: manuf - Berry's, traditional hammer-like with 4 collets


The screwable cap remains up.
The collet's smooth side interfaces with the hammer.
The cartridge is place thru the collet, bullet first.
The bullet is firmly retained by the rim of the case.
Cap is screwed back on tight.
With the cap end still up, the hammer is struck on the
opposing end on a thick butcher block table.
Once, twice, three times - nice sharp firm strikes....
NOTHING

SiX, seven, eight times...
NOTHING

Everything is broken down is repeated as per step one.
Fifteen, sixteen, 25....
NOTHING

I tried this on :
A reloaded cartridge without powder - new case
A Black Hills new cartridge (.223 69g SMK HPBT)
A reloaded cartridge without powder, used case x 1

*** am I doing wrong?


Redding Model #5 Powder Trickler

I can not come close to even guessing how to use this!!!!

PLEASE HELP THIS STUPID MAN!!!???:banghead:

8 years med/surgical training, 17 years practice, and I finally met my match - a f**kin' hammer and dispenser...)

Docgary

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mc223
January 31, 2008, 11:05 PM
I'm thinking you just aint wacking it hard enough.

Fill the cup with powder and turn the little Knob. powder will slowly "trickle" out the other end into your scale pan till you reach the desired weight.

SASS#23149
January 31, 2008, 11:20 PM
You want to use the bullet puller like a 'dead blow hammer'...strike a semi-solid surface with it and don't let it bounce back...control the recoil.
They do break,so let momentum be your frined.

Trickelers are sloooooooooooooooooooow opoerating,and most generally used where real accuracy is needed or desired,as with long range rifle shooting matches.

jfh
January 31, 2008, 11:25 PM
Doesn't sound to me like you are doing anything wrong. SASS#23149 has it right.

FWIW, you DO have a too-strong crimp to break there--for a pistol round, I consider 5-10 short / sharp wraps to be a firm crimp...and yes, I have gone through the experience you are going through.

Read in your manuals about crimping.

Jim H.

R.W.Dale
January 31, 2008, 11:29 PM
I've found that pullers work %1000 better if you strike something HARD. What I do is put a piece of cardboard on a concrete floor and hit that.


Tricklers come into their own when used with a good powder measure. You throu a slightly light charge and then use the tricklet to add the last few granules of powder to balance the scale at the desired weight.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/krochus/HPIM1297.jpg

cobb
January 31, 2008, 11:55 PM
thick butcher block table
That is probably your problem. I whack it on a concrete floor or on a heavy piece of steel that is about 6"x6" and an inch thick. If I do it on my bench, it doesn't work, the concrete floor works best for me.

Stinger
February 1, 2008, 12:26 AM
Wow! You guys whacking those bullet pullers on concrete and steel must not swing as hard as I do. :)

The only thing I manage to do when hitting something that hard is breaking the bullet puller. I have a 2x4 on the garage floor that I use.

cobb
February 1, 2008, 12:28 AM
The only time I broke one was when I didn't tighten down the cap tight and the cap cracked.

scrat
February 1, 2008, 01:00 AM
yep whack that thing hard on the floor. concrete. hold the handle all the way by the end to get a good swing. i can usually do it in one swing.

FieroCDSP
February 1, 2008, 01:07 AM
Look into the Hornaday Cam-Lock Bullet Puller (Item #050095). Kinetic Pullers remind me of that cartoon where they're QC-ing artillery shells with a steel mallet to the nose. The puller mounts into the standard thread press and you insert a collet for a specific diameter range of bullet. Raise the ram with the cartridge until you can clamp the jaws just before the case mouth, cam the lever, and lower the ram. Bullet's out. Should you ever have to do a large number of pulls, this is the item to have.

Most people recommend using a 4x4 on end to whack a kinetic puller on.

snuffy
February 1, 2008, 02:02 AM
I tried this on :
A reloaded cartridge without powder - new case
A Black Hills new cartridge (.223 69g SMK HPBT)
A reloaded cartridge without powder, used case x 1

Are these .223 shells? If so, then your experience is much like mine with a RCBS puller, trying to pull 55 grain bullets. It just don't work.

A kinetic puller uses the weight of the bullet stopping SUDDENLY to unseat it. The lighter the bullet, the harder it is to pull them.

docgary
February 1, 2008, 03:52 AM
Quote:
I tried this on :
A reloaded cartridge without powder - new case
A Black Hills new cartridge (.223 69g SMK HPBT)
A reloaded cartridge without powder, used case x 1

Are these .223 shells?
If so, then your experience is much like mine with a RCBS puller,
trying to pull 55 grain bullets. It just don't work.

A kinetic puller uses the weight of the bullet stopping SUDDENLY to unseat it.
The lighter the bullet, the harder it is to pull them...

Truly appreciate the quick feedback...thanks, guys!

Snuffy (you ****ttin' me or what) -

I believe you hit upon it!
ALL rounds, except one, do NOT HAVE POWDER...These were all 'test runs'...
As a noobie reloader, I was doing dry runs on my new Dillon 550,
just getting the feel and fine tuning the seating die.
I figured I'd pull the bullets after...no need to load powder
since its gonna be pulled ( and I havn't got my scale as of yet!)

Now..Since Snuffy:confused: pointed out that the kinetic puller uses the deacceleration of the weight of the bullet,
it makes sense that the weight of the powder behind the bullet is a necessary factor :banghead:
Therefore, no powder, not enough stopping mass to release the 69 grain bullet.

Oh, just remembered - 3 of the 4 rounds have a crimp in them...:uhoh:
just 'kickin' the tires' of my new press...

If this theory turns out correct ( by concensus of the group),

how will I get the bullets freed?

Is it DREMEL TIME?

TIA
Docgary

GIANTS .....31
PATRIOTS.. 27

Thirties
February 1, 2008, 07:37 AM
What works well for me is striking the hammer on a concrete floor using a rather LOOSE GRIP so the hammer head bounced back up a bit. You are giving the bullet a complete change of direction which encourages the bullet to come loose and head to the bottom.

Works every time for me.

Odd Job
February 1, 2008, 08:00 AM
What a coincidence, I was pulling bullets in South Africa just the other day. I was using a Quinetics Corp hammer. Some of the rounds just could not be pulled. These were all light rounds (NGA Sentry/Eliminator rounds which are nickle-plated copper rounds).
Some of the heavier rounds I could do with one shot (147gn Ranger rounds). I was using a scrap piece of carpet directly on a concrete surface. The average number of hits to get things like generic FMJs out, was three. However I battled with FMJs with a NATO headstamp. Those took more than 8 shots, and I am not short of power in my right arm. There is definitely an element of technique to it, though. I found that it is better to try to stop that hammer dead and don't let it bounce. This hurts your hand if you don't have a glove though.

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g154/Odd_Job/hammer1.jpg

And here is the stubborn cartridge:

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g154/Odd_Job/hammer2.jpg

stubbicatt
February 1, 2008, 09:17 AM
I like the Hornady bullet puller with collets. It leaves a tiny little mark on the pulled bullets, but it works very well with much less effort.

ranger335v
February 1, 2008, 10:35 AM
Doc, you restore my faith in humanity. Somewhat, anyway. The three catagories of people I've noted that think they already know everything are airline pilots, lawyers and doctors. YOU are an exception! ;)

Two points for using inertia bullet pullers. One, seat the bullets deeper by maybe 50 thousants of an inch to break the neck's hold and to re-open the crimp a little. Second, understand that it's the velocity and sudden direction change that pops the bullets out. Hold your "hammer" handle lighly while swinging it down smartly and flick your wrist at the same time to increase the speed. Hit something hard and massive enough to resist the impact while causing the hammer to "bounce" vigorously. It will likely take 4-6 whacks to get your light bullets out but they should pull okay.

The collet type pullers are okay IF there is sufficent exposed bearing surface to grip. That eliminates some deep-seated rifle bullets, especially light ones, and most handgun bullets.

The directions given above for using the trickler are correct. Adjust your measure to drop charges a bit light and use the trickler to bring the scale's beam up to your pre-set desired weight. Use a powder funnel to transfer the pan contents into the cases sitting in a loading block. ALWAYS, after your cases are charged hold the block so you can see the tops of the powder and confirm they are nearly the same before seating any bullets.

Powder measures work with volume and coarse powders don't fill the measuring chamber as consistanly as finer powders so you will find less variation with fine (ball) powders. Larger variations from the measure when using coarse (tubular) powders is just something we have to live with and use the trickler to get the weights right.

Actually, for shooting inside 200 yards AND with rifles/loads capable of less than maybe 3/4", weighing charges is nearly pointless but I do it anyway.

rcmodel
February 1, 2008, 12:37 PM
+1 to what everyone said.

.223 bullets are very hard to pull with a hammer bullet puller.

Don't even bother trying with .17's!

Mil-Sup bullets are locked in with hard asphalt sealer & a crimp.
Seat them a little deeper first to break the seal.

I whack mine on either a steel Vice or an Anvil, or a concrete floor.
A wood table is too soft.

You can turn a trickler backwards all day, and nothing will come out.
There is basically just a thread inside the thing, and you must turn them in the right direction to get powder to follow the threads and come out the end.

It takes quite a few turns to "prime" them when you first fill one with powder.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j219/rcmodel/KTOG/1224.gif
rcmodel

caz223
February 1, 2008, 01:15 PM
I've often thought of making a contraption to pull stubborn bullets out using a slide hammer, but I just keep the rounds on a shelf above my bench to remind me NOT TO DO IT AGAIN.
They are serving a purpose, so I let them be.
It's cheaper than the cost of a beer, and it's good education. I've paid a LOT more to learn a LOT less.
My dad once equated those little expenses that shouldn't happen, but often do as 'the cost of doing business'. Whatever that business happened to be.
I personally wouldn't buy a collet pullet unless you got to scrounge a lot of bullets.
I haven't had the preasure yet. Yet.

docgary
February 1, 2008, 02:08 PM
Thanks, guys...much obliged!

I got the principle regarding the bullet puller...
It took a different technique and contact surface
and a bunch of whacks, but I got them out!

The trickler use I couldnt conceptualize...
until I started going thru the possible ways...:rolleyes:


Doc, you restore my faith in humanity. Somewhat, anyway. The three catagories of people I've noted that think they already know everything are airline pilots, lawyers and doctors. YOU are an exception!

Ranger, I know what you mean...!
I take pride in asking for help...
its good for the soul to be humble once in a while!
Especially, when you're dealing with potentially dangerous substances!

THANKS EVERYONE FOR YOR REPLIES!
ODD JOB TOOK THE TIME FOR A PICTORIAL!!:D
THANKS!!!:)

You may find it interesting that I posted the exact inquiry to my "home" site, AR15.com -

THis is one of 2 replies..

Move away from the reloading bench before you hurt yourself and log into the Reloading Forum here on ARFCOM.

My reply, in part....

...IF YOU READ MY NOTE, iT CLEARLY STATES THAT MY CARTRIDGES ARE WITHOUT POWDER!

This was done to PRACTICE at the stations of my Dillon 550 - to get the feel of the press.
By not priming and charging, I take away any potential factors that can go kaboom!

My inquiry here was to ask the PROPER TECHNIQUE REGARDING THE BULLET PULLER.
I SIMPLY COULD NOT GET IT TO WORK.

AS demonstrated on the THR forum, 14 replies expressed similiar problems
when they started using a PULLER, especially on light weight bullets.
And they proceeded to give me the proper technique.
AND IT WORKED..

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=66&t=361248&page=1&#-1

Thanks again
docgary

jenrob
February 1, 2008, 04:55 PM
I see a couple of hit it on a 2X4 I don't know how many 2X4 piece I have had to pick up cause I was to lazy to walk over and hit that big steel Anvil. One thing about the 2X4 's I was able to start my fire place in my shop easier with all these splinters of wood. I used the concrete floor on one a few times and it does a number to the head (of the bullet puller). That being said I can get a factory 55gr FMJ 223 out in about 2-3 whacks. But the newest hammer I have doesn't hit concrete only hard wood or smooth steel.

JackOfAllTradesMasterAtNone
February 1, 2008, 05:54 PM
I use a Kinetic puller for lead bullets.

I use a press RCBS collet puller for jacketed bullets.

Collet pulled bullets are just as re-usable, and I won't break a Kinetic puller on the floor. I've done this on concrete, but a tiled concrete floor works better without breaking the head. Still, with the light bullets you've mentioned, I'll go along with what every one else has said. Hit harder on a firm surface. Eventually they'll come out. When you do break your puller, spend the extra bux on a collet puller. It really is worth it for those lighter bullets. Pulls any size bullets in seconds without spilling the powder. (by spilling the pouder, I mean allowing it to coat the lubed areas of lead bullets) Not to mention that pulling a lead spear-point soft-point bullet with a Kinetic puller will often damage the point of the bullet. Not an issue with a FMJ, but something to keep in mind if you're looking for a better tool.

-Steve

R.W.Dale
February 1, 2008, 09:45 PM
Moderator Edit: This post dealt with another, deleted post - -It made no sense without the original.

R.W.Dale
February 1, 2008, 09:52 PM
FYI You can throw those pesky collets for your pullers in the trash. A good old fashioned shellholder works great in their place

kelbro
February 1, 2008, 10:57 PM
I found a way to make them work. Long strokes, like chopping with a tommyhawk. Don't have to hit it hard, just raise the hammer all the way above your head and strike a piece of wood on the concrete floor or vise anvil. Inertia, momentum, sudden deceleration.

shu
February 1, 2008, 11:23 PM
interia puller.. yes, the idea is to have the cartridge case reverse direction while the bullet keeps moving in the same direction.. loose grip, wrist flick, at hard surface (concrete floor), let the hammer bounce back.

usually works well for me, but last time i had to use it - some hardcast lead in crimped 38 spl, i just couldn't get the bullets to move and had to just toss the batch.

italian biker
February 2, 2008, 02:54 AM
Is it safe to use with a primed cartridge?

Odd Job
February 2, 2008, 04:36 AM
Yes, it is. All the bullets I have pulled have been from factory-loaded primed ammunition.
Just make sure you have the right collet, or you will have the cartridge coming out of the back of the hammer and who knows where it will go. You need to get the right size and type (rimmed/rimless)

ranger335v
February 2, 2008, 11:04 AM
"FYI You can throw those pesky collets for your pullers in the trash. A good old fashioned shellholder works great in their place"

True. It's especially true for Lee priming tool shell holders without the part that slides into a press ram.

RustyFN
February 2, 2008, 12:49 PM
"FYI You can throw those pesky collets for your pullers in the trash. A good old fashioned shellholder works great in their place"
That's the same thing I do, works great. I also have a piece of 4x4 wood that I cut so I can sit on my stool, stand the 4x4 on end and smack the puller on the end of the 4x4. Usually two good hits and the bullet is out.
Rusty

snuffy
February 2, 2008, 02:45 PM
Injun-ear, I hope you have a question, so we can all ignore you!:scrutiny::uhoh:

Doc, I'm glad you figured it out. I keep a brick in the loading room for the hammer puller.

I just recently got the Hornady collet puller, it works quite well, but has some limitations. Chiefly it can't get a grip on round nosed bullets in 9MM or other handgun calibers where the ogive meats the major caliber right in front of the mouth.

Odd Job
February 2, 2008, 08:45 PM
I would like to get a shellholder then. Any links/pics to one that would work with my puller?

Sunray
February 2, 2008, 09:18 PM
"...how will I get the bullets freed?..." Applied physics is your friend. Use the inertia puller(the hammer type), but whack it on a rock. Wood is too soft. Concrete isn't much better. A nice hunk of limestone or granite, flatish on one side and about the size of a cantalope, works every time. No excessive force is required, but a good sharp whack is best.
"...safe to use with a primed cartridge?..." Yep. Nothing comes even close to the primer.

Sport45
February 3, 2008, 12:55 AM
As mentioned, light bullets are hard to pull with a kenetic device. If you made them for reloading practice and are dimensionally accurate I wouldn't pull them. I'd paint them blue with a magic marker and toss a few in the range bag and keep at least one on the reloading bench.

A dummy cartridge like that is great for quickly setting up your seating die. (Put the cartridge on the ram and raise it fully. unscrew the seating plug a few turns and turn the die down until it hits the case then turn the seating plug in until it touches the bullet. Tighten a smidgen and set the locking ring.) Dummy rounds are also excellent for pushing pins in military rifles and testing new magazines without fear of negligent discharges.

Once you get everything set up again go ahead and make a few dummy rounds. For mine, I drill a hole crosswise through the main body of the brass and file the edges of the hole smooth before sizing. The primer should be left off and the primer pocket can be filled with hot glue if used for dry firing.

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