It Helps To Read the Definitions


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KD7ONE
February 2, 2008, 11:56 AM
According to Title 26, Section 5841, Paragraph A of
the US Code,

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode26/usc_sec_26_00005841----000-.html

The Secretary shall maintain a central registry of all firearms in the United States which are not in the possession or under the control of the United States. This registry shall be known as the National Firearms Registration and Transfer Record.

The registry shall include—
(1) identification of the firearm;
(2) date of registration; and
(3) identification and address of person entitled to possession of the firearm.

In Section 5845 of the same Title, the definition of a
firearm is:

(1) a shotgun having a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length;
(2) a weapon made from a shotgun if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in
length;
(3) a rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length;
(4) a weapon made from a rifle if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in
length;
(5) any other weapon, as defined in subsection (e);
(6) a machinegun;
(7) any silencer (as defined in section 921 of title 18, United States Code); and
(8) a destructive device. The term “firearm” shall not include an antique firearm or any device (other than a machinegun or destructive device) which, although designed as a weapon, the Secretary finds by reason of the date of its manufacture, value, design, and other characteristics is primarily a collector’s item and is not likely to be used as a weapon.

So, according to the US Code, a revolver, semi-auto rifle, bolt action rifle, semi-auto handgun are not firearms. :what: :cuss: :banghead:

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Gator
February 2, 2008, 12:04 PM
They are not firearms taxed by the IRS. That's the IRS code dealing with NFA firearms you are reading.

ConstitutionCowboy
February 2, 2008, 01:17 PM
Doesn't matter what agency's code it is. It violates the Second Amendment.

Woody

"The power of those in government to use common sense shall not be infringed. It is imperative, however, to elect people to those positions of power who possess common sense. Remember that at the next election." B.E.Wood

ServiceSoon
February 2, 2008, 01:55 PM
I read it as saying that in Title 26 Chapter 23 that is the definition of firearm, but that catch is that there is a different definition in other titles or chapters relating to firearms.

If my interpretation is correct that means that a revolver, semi-auto rifle, bolt action rifle, semi-auto handgun are not taxed under that section, which they aren't.

Sans Authoritas
February 2, 2008, 01:55 PM
ConstitutionCowboy said: Doesn't matter what agency's code it is. It violates the Second Amendment.

The what? Se... oh, that. That cluster of words written on a piece of paper that was intended to force men with guns and the power to tax to obey the other words on a similar piece of paper. Quaint.

Don't read me wrong, Cowboy. I certainly appreciate that you detest the fact that your right to defend yourself is being violated. I disagree, however, with the notion that this cluster of words should ever have been considered as an effective tool to keep coercively-funded government at bay.

-Sans Authoritas

geekWithA.45
February 2, 2008, 01:59 PM
It's a matter of legal construction, and it's fairly common and familiar to folks who read the statutes.

PA's code is particularly frought with that danger, the operative definition of "firearm" changes every couple of paragraphs. There's even one section where a strict logical and lexical analysis reveals that the operative definition is indeterminate, due to mutually exclusive definitions being in play at the same time.

Kinda makes it exciting, in the Chinese sense.

ConstitutionCowboy
February 2, 2008, 09:13 PM
Don't read me wrong, Cowboy. I certainly appreciate that you detest the fact that your right to defend yourself is being violated. I disagree, however, with the notion that this cluster of words should ever have been considered as an effective tool to keep coercively-funded government at bay.

-Sans Authoritas

That's the rub, isn't it. Without honor, there is nothing to stop said coercively-funded government - except those of us who are armed and willing to stand our ground. The Founders gave us protection for that right(the Second Amendment), and recourse(the Court) for when there is - well - honorable people on the Court.

Thing of it is, you see, is all the enforcement for the collection of delinquent taxes is supposed to be by the militia who are, as we all know, us. Seems Congress has forgotten or ignored that fact. Any agency with enforcement powers granted to them by Congress is a de facto standing army. Take into account that Congress has granted power to these agencies to come up with their own law and you end up with bureaucratic oligarchic tyrannies.

It's shameful. Congress passed the buck on making tough enforcement decisions by delegating all these unpopular duties, freed themselves of just about all responsibility and ducked the ire of the populace. That way, they can pass all manner of law by creating a new agency to "handle" it and it looks like the agency in charge is to blame, catches all the heat, and these dastardly congressmen will actually point the finger at the agencies when we complain, and we vote for them thinking they will reign in these same rogue agencies they created to begin with!

Without these agencies, we'd be much better off. We wouldn't need to worry about who defines firearms to fit within a certain criteria. A pistol would be a pistol, a rifle would be a rifle regardless of it's barrel or over-all length, a cannon a cannon, a machine gun a machine gun, a sawed-off shotgun a shotgun...All of them arms.

Woody

Our government was designed by our Founding Fathers to fit within the framework of our rights and not vise versa. Any other "interpretation" of the Constitution is either through ignorance or is deliberately subversive. B.E. Wood

Sans Authoritas
February 2, 2008, 09:21 PM
It's enough to make someone think, "If government always becomes so bloated and so corrupt as to crush the very rights it was intended to protect, why bother creating one in the first place?"

If I remember rightly, an old, true saying goes something like this: "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results each time."

-Sans Authoritas

ctdonath
February 2, 2008, 11:48 PM
In NY, rifles and shotguns are not "firearms", and a gun is "loaded" if both gun and ammo - separated, not one in the other - are within easy reach.
In DC, a semi-auto which can take a magazine over 12 rounds is a machinegun.

There is much in law which does not follow conventions of normal English conversation, and usually stemming from an attempt to treat something as what it isn't.

ke6guj
February 3, 2008, 01:32 AM
So, according to the US Code, a revolver, semi-auto rifle, bolt action rifle, semi-auto handgun are not firearms.As others mentioned, that section of the code relates to NFA firearms. There is another definition of firearm related to the GCA. http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00000921----000-.html
(a) As used in this chapter—
(3) The term “firearm” means
(A) any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive;
(B) the frame or receiver of any such weapon;
(C) any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; or
(D) any destructive device. Such term does not include an antique firearm. with further defintions of shotgun, SBS, rifle, SBR, and handgun further in the section.

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