[Phriend]

I really like the S&W J-Frame weapons. However, it seems that these guns only hold five rounds. Is that going to be sufficient for self-defense??? (I'm not so sure I'd feel safe with that).

Also, do you happen to know of any handguns that are similar to the S&W J-Frames that are able to hold more amunition?

[ArchAngelCD]

I carry a 5 round J frame and feel well protected.

You are going to get a lot of answers from those who feel under-gunned without 17 rounds in the gun and 2 reloads.

IMO if a 5 round J frame wasn't a good handgun for SD it would be S&W's top selling revolver, would it?

[omcf]

I remember hearing of a FBI report from the 80's stating that most shootings involving non-leos took place at abut 7 feet involving 3 rounds or less. Someone please correct me with quotable sources. I well understand that bullets flying at your head tend to throw off one's aim, but still, if you cannot hit with the first 5, what makes you think 12 more will help?

[GunTech]

IIRC, it's 2.3 rounds average fired, and 21 feet distance, per FBI. That's old data, and the introduction of big box autos has upped the number of rounds fired. But it only takes one to do the job, and as noted, if 5 isn't enough, 15 probably won't help.

The most legendary combat pistol of all time only holds 7 rounds.

[sm]

There will always be more evil out there, than one has ammunition.

Once this accepted, this frees up the mind, to have better mindset about how to go along in Life's Journey.

Prevention, avoiding, evading and dealing with evil.

7, 6 and even 5 round are proven in dealing with evil, if one has the mindset and skill sets to do so.

[1911Tuner]

The intent/purpose of the little J-frames was never really engaging in running gun battles with multiple assailants. The gun was thought of more as a last ditch, up close and personal means to stop an attacker, and...within its limitations...is pretty good in that role.

Small, light, portable, and with a power level that can be taken seriously...a J-frame is more likely to be the gun that you won't leave at home. The gun that you have with you is the best one for self-defense.

[pwrtool45]

However, it seems that these guns only hold five rounds. Is that going to be sufficient for self-defense???

In the real world, a J-frame has just enough bullets to either get you into trouble or get you out of it, but not both. If that's insufficient, your jury might not be too kind in its evaluation of the "defense" element of "self-defense."

[Brian Williams]

If a 5 shot J frame is not enough get 2. or a Colt detective special it has 6 and is very close to the same size as a S&W.

[308win]

Make the time and effort to learn to shoot the J-frame proficiently over the ranges at which it is intended to be deployed. Point shooting skills with this gun are a good thing to develop. If I have to use it in all probability things will be happening close and fast other wise I in all probability will be using the Nike defense.

[ryanl]

If 5 shots are not enough to defend yourself against a would be attacker. I suggest more range time.

[1911Tuner]

Make the time and effort to learn to shoot the J-frame proficiently over the ranges at which it is intended to be deployed.

And bear always in mind that the little snub wasn't designed with 25-yard target shooting in mind. It's the quintessential "Belly Gun" that's at its best when deployed at powder burn distances.

[jad0110]

Are 5 enough? According to all the stats, it very likely is. There are no guarantees of course. Though if you need more than 5 it's most likely because either:

1) You are missing

2) You are badly outnumbered

3) Both

Not all inclusive (didn't count body armor), but you get the idea. Missing won't win a gunfight. And if you are outnumbered? Say, 3 to 1 and they are armed with guns. Eek, that's 3 aimpoints against 1. Not a pleasant place to be with but a handgun.

IMHO, more ammo is never a bad thing. But it is not the sole determinant of what I carry. Actually, it doesn't figure into the equation much at all.

This was my criteria I used when selecting my one and only CCW piece:

1) Reliability. If it don't work, the number of rounds in the gun doesn't matter. Well, except that it would make for a heavier club.

2) Pointability. I desire a gun that points naturally for me, which increases the likelihood of a stopping hit at short distances without the use of sights. The mechanical accuracy of most handguns exceeds the ability of most shooters, so it comes down to what you shoot best.

3) Convenience. A big, hefty gun is nice, if you have it with you. I wanted something small enough to slip into a pocket holster and go. That encourages carry whenever it is legal to do so. To take it to an extreme, a snubby in the pocket beats an AK in the safe.

4) Ease of unholstering/drawing. Looking at the stats, most life or death encounters involving an armed citizen are over in a few seconds. So speed of draw is key. Pocket carrying a Glock 26 is fine as long as your pocket openings are large enough to make a clean, reliable draw.

5) Price. Yeah, that does figure in for the vast majority of us.

6) Ammo price. For those that don't reload, check ammo prices before you buy.

In the end, a hammerless J Frame fit the above criteria best. Snubbies have a well earned reputation for reliability, and my J Frame is no exception. I don't claim to be an expert shot, far from it, but I do well with my 642. 5 shots, 5 yards, 5 inches, 5 seconds. It is compact and easy enough to carry that it is with me where ever I can legally carry. The smooth, rounded backstrap make it super easy/fast to draw. In practice (unloaded of course), I've never had a hangup. And the prominent grip is easy for the hand to find and grasp. And it only set me back $355 at the time, and 38 special is fairly affordable - though I do reload now. Round count would have figured in as a tie breaker, but no such tie existed for me in this case.

For me, the S&W 642 is best. YMMV, quite considerably. If you don't feel comfortable with 5, then perhaps look into other options that boost your confidence.

7, 6 and even 5 round are proven in dealing with evil, if one has the mindset and skill sets to do so.

Correct - software is more important than hardware. Not that my software is free of bugs, far from it :o .

In the end, I do my best to avoid such situations to begin with. I live in a safe area, so that's not too difficult.

[btg3]

If 5 shots are not enough to defend yourself against a would be attacker. I suggest more range time.
Hopefully just a would be attacker... rather than attackers.

So would the 2.3 average rounds fired perhaps be for 1.1 average attackers - LOL? How far back do I squeeze the trigger to get a 0.3 round?

Averages can be misleading. Consider 10 incidents with the following number of shots fired:

2
2
1
1
1
10
1
3
1
1

The average is 2.3, but you can't pick your situation.
MOST of the time, 5 would be more than enough -- feeling lucky?
In fact, MOST of the time an unloaded gun will suffice since usually no shots are fired.

Everyone has their own level of comfort regarding #rounds, caliber, etc. Even with no gun, mindset is a big factor regarding outcome.

[Old Fuff]

Colt used to make a big thing about the 6th shot issue in their advertising, but S&W's use of a 5-shot size in .38 Caliber went back to the late 1870's in top-break revolvers, and real-life experience didn't present any reasons to change. As others have pointed out the J-frame was intended to be for back-up and civilian personal protection. For those that thought they need more, S&W offered their K-frame, 6-shot snubbies, and intended that these would be a police officer's primary weapon.

For all-around use I prefer a Colt Detective Special, but the little S&W's and Taurus model 85 series work much better out of a side pocket.

[Javelin]

If 5 shots are not enough to defend yourself against a would be attacker. I suggest more range time.

I somewhat agree. The point with the J-Frame over an automatic pocket pistol is that you get "FIVE FOR SURE".

I carry a Kel-Tec P3AT personally but my wife LOVES her little aluminum S&W .38 special w/crimson grips. I too would carry it if she would let me touch the darn thing (its her first gun and she is quite possessive about it).

:)

[BlkHawk73]

You are going to get a lot of answers from those who feel under-gunned without 17 rounds in the gun and 2 reloads.


Shouldn't that be a pair of autos with 17 rnds each and each with two reloads? :banghead:

Seriously, if you feel that much under-staffed with 5 and not 6 rounds...:banghead: ok, ok 5 is fine. I carry a 5-shot and have yet to feel like I needed another.
How 'bout another side to the whole sufficient for self-defense aspect... Gonnaget proper and professional, top-notch training and consistantly practice with this gun or will it be a basic medicocre course occasional practice and leave it at that? Seems to me they'd go together.

[1966SW37]

A 15 ounce ,5 shot revolver is better than a 2 pound 17 rounds semi auto left in the sock drawer.

[GunTech]

First rule of a gunfight: Have a gun.

[GRIZ22]

And bear always in mind that the little snub wasn't designed with 25-yard target shooting in mind. It's the quintessential "Belly Gun" that's at its best when deployed at powder burn distances.


I agree with this statement but with proper instruction and practice you should be able to hit targets at 25 yards plus with no problem.

[Pilot]

The intent/purpose of the little J-frames was never really engaging in running gun battles with multiple assailants. The gun was thought of more as a last ditch, up close and personal means to stop an attacker, and...within its limitations...is pretty good in that role.


Tuner, you just described the essence of the role of all of our self defense pistols, no matter the caliber or the capacity. I'll take a little J frame any day.

I'd be more worried about keeping physically fit and being able to get out of a situation than how many rounds I carried.

[Rockrivr1]

If you need more then five rounds then your situational awareness has completely failed you and gotten you in a position where you must be completely surrounded and outgunned by a group of attackers. Other then that, five rounds is enough to get you out of 99% of any jams you might find yourself in. I carry a J-Frame and do not feel undergunned at all. For me carrying a speed loader for a revolver bulges to much in my pocket. I use a Bianchi Strip that holds 6 rounds of ammo. Biggest thing, practice practice practice.

[ArmedBear]

Just tried out a new 642 last night.

It's very simple. There are two controls: the trigger and the cylinder catch. It's easy to teach someone how to operate it, and you don't have to practice specifically with that gun all the time to use the controls under stress.

It's small and light.

You can tell if it's loaded, without much fumbling or training. It makes sense to someone right away.

You can load loose rounds quickly, and a speedloader is a lot more pocketable than a magazine -- doesn't care about lint, either.

There's no slide to bite the shooter's hand, and it works in any position, with a strong or weak grip, every time you pull the trigger.

If you look at real cases of civilian defensive shooting, and even police shootings, few of them involve more than a few rounds. Of those that do, at least some involve someone without much shooting discipline letting loose with all the rounds in a 9mm and hitting nothing. Until recently, nearly all cops carried "six-guns" and they were fine.

WRT accuracy, I was able to shoot very tight groups with the thing last night. Apart from the obvious limitation of sight radius, I don't think they're any less accurate than another S&W.

[wnycollector]

I'm a big fan of the "5 for sure". I bought a S&W 638 for my wife, but I find myself carrying it so much that I think another one may be in order. Then I can do my NY reload by carrying both:) LOL even both loaded are less than my S&W 28-2 (6 shots) or the same weight of my loaded SIG P220 (8+1)!!!

[MNBud]

I bought a 642 years ago when that was THE gun to have, I have since bought a 638. I took the lasergrips off the 642 and retired it to the safe.I see no point to the 642 when you can have the hammer option.
I'm seriously considering getting rid of my 640 for a 649.Are they ugly,I don't think so nor do I really care.

[weisse52]

I carry the "five for sure" as my BUG, or sometimes by itself. I live in a safe area, low/no crime area. I do not carry a reload for this. I feel I have practiced enough to place my shots if needed. (at least that is what I tell myself).

I will make one comment. The little J frames are not for for new shooters. With the proper ammo they are very hard to shoot. If this is you, then think twice before you carry a J frame, or at least plan on lots of practice.

[spwenger]

1. I remember hearing of a FBI report from the 80's stating that most shootings involving non-leos took place at abut 7 feet involving 3 rounds or less.
I am not aware of the FBI ever studying justifiable shootings by private citizens. I believe that the study in question, whatever its merits and demerits, involved only police reports.

2. Yes, five rounds is not a lot, considering that even a well placed handgun round may not solve the problem instantly with a single shot and you may encounter more than one assailant. That said, my own philosophy is to carry at least two of the five-round revolvers at a time. Without even getting into the spare eleven rounds I currently carry, I'm more comfortable carrying ten rounds in two guns than sixteen rounds in a single gun. Carrying a gun accessible to either hand allows me to draw and fire even if one hand is occupied deflecting an attack or has already been wounded. Carrying a second gun allows me to arm a companion who may know how to shoot but may not be carrying a gun of her own. Two armed people, ideally behind separate pieces of cover, make a better defense than one person with a few extra rounds to fling. (And even merely five rounds of a decent .38 Special load is a better bet than two rounds from a derringer of some sort.)

[The_Shootist]

All I know is that post Katrina news reports indicate in the Houston-Galveston area a higher porbability of multiple (ie 3-4) attackers.

Now, if you pull a snubby, that actually might be enough to dissuade them. Afterall, NONE of the 3-4 attackers want to get shot but displaying a revolver gives a higher probability that ONE (maybe more) will take a .38 for the hometeam.

So I have 2 guns out that do regular service - my Taurus M85 ( w/2 speedloaders) for out and about during the day (and night more often than not during the summer). The second one is my G19 with 1 mag reload for trips closer / in Houston . I figure if 30 rds of GS 9mm +P can't at least get me under cover or out of the neighborhood, I should have tossed my WASR in the back of the truck or (better) stayed at home under my bed that day.

But a snubby takes practice - LOTS of practice but after a short time you'll be surprised at how good you get with some determination. So much so I almost just tossed my Glock back in the safe and started carrying the snub exclusively.

Almost :evil:

[gruesomenewsom]

But a snubby takes practice - LOTS of practice
Amen to that. I thought I was a decent shot until I bought my 642 2 months ago. The first time I shot it I was barely hitting the plywood backstop at 7 yards! I have been carrying my ruger p345 for now b/c the gun is concealable for me, and i can shoot it accurately and comfortably. But once summertime rolls around I gotta get some practice in with that snubby.

P.S. If you buy the 642 get the pachmayr compacs $25 and worth every penny

[Rembrandt]

....Only Five Rounds???....Is that going to be sufficient for self-defense??? (I'm not so sure I'd feel safe with that).

If you miss with the first five....what makes you more comfortable thinking the sixth one will hit its mark?

[Soybomb]

If you knew how many rounds you'd need, you'd probably not even go there :) Odds are you'll never need a gun. Odds are you'll not need to fire your gun if you pull it out. If you're having a bad enough day that you needed a gun and needed to shoot it maybe you'll be having a bad enough day to wish you had 3 17 round 9mm mags too. The j-frame isn't the perfect gun on paper by any stretch but it works out a lot better than you'd think. It conceals well in the pocket, has reasonably decent ballistics, and will probaobly do the job.

I believe the colt detective special is a similar size and carries 6 maybe...?

If you miss with the first five....what makes you more comfortable thinking the sixth one will hit its mark?
Who says you're even missing? On tv people drop like a rock when they're been hit. In real life the handgun isn't quite that great of an instant stopper and sometimes take several rounds to stop, if that.

[ArmedBear]

I'm not sure why a snubby takes more practice than anything else. If you're comfortable holding a DA steady while squeezing the trigger, I don't think it's much different.

If you're used to a SAA or 1911, it's WAY different, though. That's just as true of a 686 in DA mode; it will take some practice if you're used to touching off a cocked hammer. I suppose you can be a bit sloppier with a heavier gun and not miss the paper, but it has a pretty heavy DA pull.

[glockman19]

Practice and shot placement are more important than the number of rounds IMHO.

[ArmedBear]

If you miss with the first five....what makes you more comfortable thinking the sixth one will hit its mark?

Why does the guy I hunt with insist that he really needs 3 shots in his shotgun?

I almost invariably have one more bird in my bag, despite having 2 shots at a time.

He also uses a full choke on nearby birds, so he can "hit them hard so they go down". My IC/M O/U points quicker and hits them better, at hunting ranges.

"More is better" may be an American instinct, but it's often not true.

If I lived where the NOLA scum ended up, I suppose I'd figure on multiple assailants. But then 6 wouldn't be enough, either.

[ArmedBear]

BTW I think that snap-cap practice is probably more important than range time with something like a 642.

Assuming you already know how to hit a target with a pistol, the challenge is holding the light gun steady while pulling the DA trigger. You can practice that for free in your living room daily for a minute or two, and learn more than you will ever learn at the range with live ammo.

[Crimp]

I feel very comfortable with my lady.

http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/5277/6014lsaa9.jpg

[spwenger]

I'm not sure why a snubby takes more practice than anything else. If you're comfortable holding a DA steady while squeezing the trigger, I don't think it's much different.
For most people a snubby is a J-frame S&W or a close approximation of it, such as a Taurus. The traditional grip stocks on these small-frame revolvers often fail to fill the hand enough to stabilize the gun in recoil (and the gun is already in recoil when the bullet leaves the barrel). Further, these guns are light to start with and many people opt for the Airweight or lighter versions. This results in placing somewhere between eight to 12 pounds of pressure on the trigger of a gun whose weight is most easily expressed in ounces. To make matters worse, the added recoil that comes with the lighter weight is not conducive to good training, and can easily induce anticipation of the shot. For this reason, someone who may be competent with the double-action trigger on a K-frame (or larger) S&W revolver, may face an additional challenge shooting a J-frame one accurately.

The first step is to fit the gun with grip stocks that adequately stabilize it in your hand, preferably without compromising too much concealibility. My own preference is for Craig Spegel's hand-carved Boot Grips, with Jim Badger's boot grips as a slightly larger alternative. Some folks do fine simply with the addition of a Tyler T-Grip and others demand the larger size of a Pachmayr Compac (which is also a bit on the tacky side.) Most of my comments have been oriented toward male shooters, who may find the J-frame revolver small for their K-frame-size hands. For the woman who has small enough fingers that the finger grooves on some of these options are an encumbrance, the open-back Pachmayr Compac Professional is an option. (From top to bottom, the T-Grip, the Spegel Boot Grip and the Pachmayr Compac Professional can be seen in the attached photo.)

Once that is done, it's time for lots of safe dry-fire. Again, the two-handed grasp that may work for a guy with average-size hands on a K-frame revolver may produce interference between the support-hand thumb and the tip of the trigger finger on the smaller gun. I think it's safe to say that it's easier for someone who has mastered the small-frame revolver to transition to a medium-frame or large-frame revolver (as long as she has large enough hands) than to go in the other direction.

[gruesomenewsom]

i dont think i could have said it better myself. plus you have to take into consideration my gp-100 da and p345 da have 3-5 inches between the front and rear sights. the 642 has what maybe 2"? The slightest movement in hand is the difference between a 10-shot and just barely hitting the paper.

[glockman19]

the 642 has what maybe 2"?
1-7/8

[SlamFire1]

More is better, but I have not figured out how to put a belt fed machine gun in my waist band. And then there is the issue of those darn ammo belts....


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/SlamFire/Smith%20and%20Wesson%20Pistols/M624CentennialAirweight.jpg

[Dean407]

Some may use it as a primary CCW gun, but many use it as a back up gun.

It's super thin and easy to take anywhere.

[arizona98tj]

All I know is that post Katrina news reports indicate in the Houston-Galveston area a higher porbability of multiple (ie 3-4) attackers.

Now, if you pull a snubby, that actually might be enough to dissuade them. Afterall, NONE of the 3-4 attackers want to get shot but displaying a revolver gives a higher probability that ONE (maybe more) will take a .38 for the hometeam.
If one is out and about in a Katrina post-hurricane scenario and one is armed with just a 5 shot revolver, one may very well deserve what one comes across as one's situational awareness sucks about as much as it possibly could. One would have to be in the "bleached totally white" zone if one hadn't figured out what must have happened in the past 24 hours.

I do believe what one's CCW weapon should be based on more than just what goes well with the pants and shirt that is coming out of the closet. ;)

[ArmedBear]

No, I think he was talking about being in Galveston when the fine upstanding residents of New Orleans showed up and started robbing people in teams.

[SwampWolf]

I prefer the Colt Detective/Cobra/Agent over the "J" frame because I like the idea of having 20 % more ammo in a revolver only slightly bigger and weighing the same (comparing a Cobra to an Airweight). If you are really expecting trouble and have advance notice of same, few of us would opt for a snubnose, no matter the brand. Regarding the question of "is five rounds enough?" and the answer "If you need more than five, you need more training...", I pose the following points:

(1) If five's more than enough, why not four?
(2) Nobody who's been in a gunfight has ever complained about having too many bullets on board.
(3) If five rounds aren't enough, you really need six!

[DougDubya]

Right pocket holds one five-shot. Left pocket holds another five-shot.

Actually, only five in gun is more than enough when you have good tactics, situational awareness, accuracy and vigorously aggressive defense on your side.

If you had a 30 round AK-47, but no will, no training, no intellectual preparation, and insufficient ferocity in the attainment of your own defense, you'd be worse off than someone like Rex Applegate, who with Wiley Clapp all but resurrected the Centennial.

-By ferocity and aggressive defense, I do not mean rage and ruthlessness. I mean a total committment to not dying, and to winning the fight. IE: no retreat, no appeasement, and no surrender. If the five shot runs out of ammunition, and you're in range, use the frame to crush maxillofacial bones until hostilities cease. If you're out of ammunition and have range, hole up behind cover and reload or seek better position.

[jt1]

There is a reason you have two hands...
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u152/jt1jt1/PC160004.jpg

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

1911Tuner said it best, the gun you have with you is the one best for self defense. I don't own any revolvers, but if I did and all my autos were stripped for detail cleaning or something like that, carrying the j-frame to the store wouldn't leave me feeling unarmed.

[brentfoto]

It's quite simple. You put the lightest gun in your pocket that has adequate stopping power. .38 special Airweight is a good compromise. And at least one Bianchi speed strip in the other pocket.

If you're a civilian, slim chance to none you'll ever have to fire it in anger.

Most people who have more than one gun are one day going to have all sort of back problems, etc. It's just not worth the extra weight.

442/642 in the front pocket with a Mika pocket holster or Nemesis/Super Fly or Uncle Mike's pocket holster or whatever, with one Bianchi speed strip in the other pocket. http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10001&storeId=10001&productId=14760&langId=-1&isFirearm=Y

Or consider a Bersa Thunder .380cc. A bit heavier, but 9 shot capability, and similar footprint to the J-framed revolver.
http://www.gunblast.com/Bersa_380CC.htm

[gcrookston]

I carried a Sig 230 for years... until recently. I "upgraded" to a J frame. Then a couple weeks ago I found a K frame I quite liked...

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj19/gcrookston/DSC00023.jpg

[Phil DeGraves]

Five rounds will generally afford you the oppurtunity to exit the danger zone or fight your way to additional firepower. Even against 3 bad guys, the vast majority are not going to stick around to see which one of them you are going to shoot at. Bad guys are looking for easily intimidated and overpowered victims. They don't want resistance of any kind.
That being said, I usually carry 2 J-frames.

[Haywood]

When I carry my Five shot Revolvers, it's Two at a time. One 357 IWB and a 38 in the pocket. If I carry One gun (very rare) it's my 617 Taurus (7-shot 357). The 617 is a 2" and caries just fine in the waist band. I still carry my Mdl. 37 in my back pocket. On a very rare occasion I have carried one Five shot, But thats when I am in a place I shouldn't be armed anyway. Today it's the 617 IWB, Mdl.37 week side back pocket. I always Carry a Flashlight, Pepper Spray, Knife, Reloads, and a Cell Phone.

[ArmedBear]

Holy crap! Where do you put all that stuff?

[Anonymous Coward]

Five rounds was enough for Bernard Goetz.

Just saying.

...

Seriously; what is the point of your question? You already know the answer -- yes, no and maybe. There's no way to answer this definitively.

I have a six-shot revolver and although I have a pair of speedloaders, I don't anticipate reloading under fire. If I have to, I will, but I plan on making those six shots count. If I had a J-frame, I'd plan accordingly. Those are the limits of the revolver, and I accept them.

If I shoot my revolver dry, and then get rushed, well, I guess then I'm out of luck.

[Haywood]

I'm a fat guy and ware Carpenter pants and T-Shirt most of the time. (reply to Armed Bear)

[fiVe]

S&W 642 in a Mika round-cut pocket holster along w/ a Bianchi speed strip.


IMO, this is the best carry config--for size, weight, capability.

[sm]

<tacky>

If S&W were smart, they would pay to have a J frame used in some movie with a scantily dressed babe and some stud-puppy male using J frames and only 5 rounds to , take out mutant ninja zombies in order to save the world , and in the process save TEEM SEEL 39.5.

This for sure would end once and for all, if 5 rounds are enough.

</tacky>

[crankshop1000]

I think it goes... one in the left eye,one in the right eye,one in the forehead and two in the heart.Repeat if needed or until your hair feels silky soft.

[jwr_747]

have seen several comments from self defense instructors that said "what can you do with 5 more that the 1st. 5 didn't do" jwr

[ArmedBear]

It's true; you can imagine scenarios like where 6 armed men smash through your living room door while you're watching Letterman, and you take out 5, but the 6th one shoots you. Or you're fighting an entire street gang, by yourself, and there are 6 of them.

Of course, if you have 6 rounds, there are 7, 7 rounds, there are 8, etc. That's how nightmares are, McBain.

http://www.thesimpsonsquotes.com/images/mcbain.gif

[TimM]

Are you really gonna feel more safe with six rounds vs five? Carry 2 j frames and have ten rounds or 3 for fifteen.

[ArmedBear]

Blackbeard was fine with 6 rounds, apparently. But he had a sword for backup.

http://cache.eb.com/eb/image?id=91608&rendTypeId=4

[R127]

Most of the time you won't need to shoot any bullets at all. A five shot snubbie beats no gun amd in many cases is enough, especially that first case I mentioned. Then again you are going to miss a lot even against 1 person at close range and when that starts happening you'll be thankful for every shot you can have. The bottom line is to buy something you can shoot well, draw quickly, conceal and will carry.

[Strings]

Q: How much ammo is "enough"?
A: Twenty rounds more than you currently have on you.

Q: How much ammo is "too much"?
A: Ain't no such critter.


I wouldn't feel underarmed with a J frame (or similar): when we finally GET concealed carry, a J frame will live in my colors. That doesn't mean that it's "enough", just that I'm comfortable that i can handle the situation with that piece of equipment. If I knew I was going to need more than 5 shots, I'd bring a rifle (and a couple friends with rifles)...

[sm]

I want one of them guns in Who Shot Roger Rabbit ? with the ammo used too.
Them bullets never missed, and even talked, turned corners, backed up to head another direction...
5 of them would work...*wink*


I'm not bad, I am just drawn that way - Jessica Rabbit

[SaxonPig]

For years I carried a 1950s Model 40 Centennial and it was a 5-shot revolver.

I never felt under-gunned.

I figure I'd have 4 left over. :D

[woodhawker]

5 shot .38's are defensive weapons...........in most shootings 3 to 5 shots are fired, from 3 to 5 feet and the entire confrontation lasts 3-5 seconds.....

[Trebor]

I can't shoot a J-frame worth a darn so I cheat. I carry a K frame Model 65 with a 3" barrel instead. It gives me one extra shot and I shoot it as well as any gun I own. I think its the larger handle that makes the difference.

Always cheat, always win.

[bikerdoc]

5 not enough? carry a speed loader. seriously i have thought about this and imo splattering the brains of the first assailant on the others with the first shot turns the tide in your favor so practice

[Trempel]

When you carry, your gun can't be small enough. But when you need to use it, it can't be big enough. Average shootouts are already not very average. The chances of anyone on this board getting into a shootout are extremely slim. If you do, you've already beaten the odds. The data from FBI represents averages, but not absolutes. How many shootouts happen when distances are increased well beyond the average contact range? How about assaults in which the number of opponents are more than one, or even more than two? These are not usual or average, but they do happen.

I understand the averages and I still think that the biggest weapon you have is being aware and keeping your wits about you. A gun is not a magic talisman, and packing the biggest heat will not save you if you don't have training and mindset. At the same time, I don't carry a gun because of what's likely to happen. If I did that, I wouldn't carry at all. In many years of me owning and practicing with guns for self defense, I've never fired a shot at anything other than a range target. I understand that there's always a possibility that instead of the "average" situation of a single untrained assailant, short distance, 3 shots total and resolution within 3 seconds, I might run into multiple BGs, all of whom have trained, have hi-cap guns with reloads and won't run away after the first shot. Not highly likely, but possible nevertheless. Avoidance is the key, but if you do run into a scenario like this, even with the most powerful and the biggest capacity weapons, you're already at a huge disadvantage just by virtue of being outnumbered. I don't see any reason to put myself at further disadvantage, if I can avoid it.

I rarely carry anything less than a 15+1 9mm, plus an extra mag, sometimes two. I choose to dress around the gun and concealing it hasn't been a problem with a good holster and belt. On the other hand, I do have a S&W 442 that sees some use. Like when I have to wear a shirt and tie and can't have a butt of a Glock sticking out of my pants. The snubbie goes into a pocket or a belly band. I always carry two speed strips as well. More often, the little 5-shot .38 serves as a backup gun and I usually train with it using my weak hand only.

Bottom line for me is this. Average Joes and Janes are more likely to go through life and never deal with either having a gun in their face or pointing their's at someone. This is regardless of whether they pack a two-shot derringer in a purse or a pair of Uzis in shoulder holsters, Chow Yun Fat style. Even if you get yourself in such a predicament, a five shot .38 will probably, hopefully be just fine. But I don't for a second buy the idea that there can NEVER be a situation where five slugs will just not be enough. Murphy's Law is still in great effect.

[Okiecruffler]

Everyone always mentions multiple attackers when round count comes up. Let's say you are confronted by 3 assailants. You draw, fire and hit one. The other 2 will do one of 2 things, either they run off and you're good to go, or they respond in kind and you're in deep doo no matter how many rounds your gun has. Unless you're Rooster Cogburn or Mathew Quigley, you're not gunning down multiple assailants without taking some serious damage.

As for me, I carry 7 rounds, not because I need them, but because I like the 45acp. The wife carries 5 of 357. Trust me, you don't want to be on the wrong end of those 5 the woman is just plain mean. Maybe that's why I'm so cranky.:scrutiny:

[tiko_joe]

i feel that five rounds is enough to get me or me and the family out of harms way. here was my situation, me, my wife and my son went out to dinner with another family. after dinner we walked to the cars, i put my son in the car seat and warmed up the car for him(it was like 6 degrees out) me, the wife and the other couple stood out side the car smoking or cigarettes when all of a sudden my doom light turned on. my son at the time was 9 months old and could not reach the door handles from his car seat in the center of our trailblazer. so my head quickly snapped, and i saw some guy jumping in the driver seat of my running car. i stepped over grabbed him and yanked him out at the same time my right hand had pulled my j-frame from my galco tuckable. when he turned he turned right into my little stubby, his pethetic little life flashed before his eyes and headed for the hills. my wife said it was alittle more violent than that on my part but i really dont remember it happened so quick that muscle memory came into play and shear "your gonna die if you f**k with my family". didnt mean to babble but like i said five rounds was more than enough considering just the sight of five did the job. if it wouldve went any further, the lolly pop sight of his fore head that i had would have only needed, one. the police said i did the right thing.

[Jeff F]

Five rounds is more then enough in most circumstances. I carry a five shot and 1 reload and I don't feel under gunned one bit.

[Trempel]

Everyone always mentions multiple attackers when round count comes up. Let's say you are confronted by 3 assailants. You draw, fire and hit one. The other 2 will do one of 2 things, either they run off and you're good to go, or they respond in kind and you're in deep doo no matter how many rounds your gun has. Unless you're Rooster Cogburn or Mathew Quigley, you're not gunning down multiple assailants without taking some serious damage.
Wait, so if your odds are not even and you get hit, you'll just say "Oh well, not my day" and roll over to die? I was always told, and I tend to believe the idea that you're not dead until you're not breathing and that I'm hope to fight until I can't fight anymore. I might get hit and I might even get killed, but I plan to do everything for that not to happen, including dumping massive amounts of lead, kicking, biting, stabbing, etc. I like my life and I don't want to lose it for lack of shooting. Actually, I challenge anyone to find a documented case of a shooting, in which a survivor afterwards declared his/her regret at having extra capacity, extra reload or an extra piece.

[Debunk Brady]

I feel like if I am forced to shoot someone outside the home, i.e. not with my fullsize, they are going to be so close that I will be more worried about them grabbing for the gun than missing.

As for multiple assailants, I don't have much experience but I would imagine that putting a bullet in one or two criminals would make the third and fourth duck and run.

[Ala Dan]

Five round S&W J-frames have adequately protected persons for many moons,
over a long period of time. When carrying any five [or six shot revolver]
always carry at least one Bianchi Speed Strip on your person; as you NEVER
know when a reload may be necessary~! ;) :D

[Dirtypacman]

I think the positives outweigh the negatives.

Would I like more then 5 shots - Yes (I carry 2 extra speedloaders)

[CoRoMo]

(I'm not so sure I'd feel safe with that).

Then carry a high cap autoloader. My Kel-Tec P11 holds... eleven.

[rdrancher]

I'm fine with five and a reload, but sometimes I carry five and five (new york reload).

In my truck it's a different story, because I may have to travel through areas I wouldn't want to visit or break down in. I still carry my usual, but I also have a semi-auto loaded w/ 15+15. Sometimes a 12 gauge behind the seat on long trips too.

I'm not paranoid, but I am a realist.

Stay safe!

rd