[Jamesmb]

I shoot a model 19 and wonder when they say group is that six shots? When I shoot at 15 yards, elbows resting on a bench outdoor range, I am usually all over the place on a bullseye type target, what should I set as a goal, all shots within a 4" circle? How about at 7 yards? Seems to surprise me everytime I shoot that I am not getting right wherer I aim. I usually shoot single action with the hammer cocked back trying to get accuracy.

Also, last time I shot, everything seemed to be going to the right, in fact I shot over 50 shots and none where left of the next small circle.

[Bellzy]

This isn't so much a reply but an add on to the question of the OP. Is it reasonable with a snub nose to expect (based on skill level of corse) consistant DA groups of 2 inches At 7 Yards?

[MrBorland]

I'm no expert, but it seems to me the hallmark for good (but not outstanding) revolver shooting is 3" groups at 25yds, shot 2-handed standing in double action. Doing the math, that means sub-2" and sub-1" at 15 and 7 yds respectively. Achieving 2" groups or less is definitely reasonable. Shooting from a rest in single action, I would expect that same shooter to be flirting with 2" or less at 25 yds.

If your groups are grouping to the right, adjust your rear sights. On your Model 19, that would mean, I believe, turning the windage screw couterclockwise a few clicks.

[jwr_747]

shooting HBWC target loads out of a revolver should easily give less than 3in. groups at 25yds. loads on the "hot" end may open up a little.even a snubbie should do that,if you do your part.

[Jamesmb]

Ok, either I am a terrible shot, very possible, or the sight does need to be changed to the left some. I am shooting either light reloads, 357 magnum 158gr JHPs or factory mags JHP out of a 4" barrel. Never shot anything but JHP or JSP, still kinda new at handguns.

[Slugless]

James,

I shoot a cylinder load as a revolver group. For a semi-auto I shoot 5 rounds.

I have a 4" Model 66, not a 19 but they're similar. With my 66 I found 2 things were key - gripping higher on the pistol and what load I used.

See http://www.bullseyepistol.com/training.htm for a graphic representation of common errors. Notice that the "pie slice" to the right is "thumbing?" I had my grip too low on the pistol causing my my thumb to exert pressure where it shouldn't have.

Correcting that was a big help. It was a major help on my .45, too.

It looks like you're shooting magnums for practice. Try dropping a few .38s into the mix and check for flinch. I found my 66 really likes the S&B .357 magnum loads, 158 gr. S&B is said to make pretty hot loads and the 66 eats them up.

-Douglas

[RandomMan]

elbows resting on bench

That's probably part of the problem there. Whenever I bench shoot, I rest my forearms and wrists on the table and lean across it. Basically, I just shoot my free standing shooting stance (a kind of Isoceles variation), resting my forearms on the bench. If you're resting your elbows on the bench, you probably won't get much better accuracy then you're getting free standing.

Make sure your sight alignment is good, if you know you're getting the shots in, mix it up maybe throw in some .357s mixed with some snap caps to check for flinch. Make sure you STROKE the trigger. 9 out of 10 accuracy problems I see with shooters is trigger, grip, and flinch related.

If all that is good, have another shooter shoot the gun to confirm it's accuracy and then adjust the sight as necessary.

I can tell you right now though, if you're not getting a decent grouping, be it to the right, left, high, or low, the gun is most likely not the problem.

-Rob

[S&Wfan]

Hi,

When people say a "six shot group," or a five-shot group," they are generally referring to the number of rounds fired at a specific target.

For handguns, I prefer to shoot either a 5-shot or 6-shot group . . . then averaging where the bullets hit to discover the exact center of where the firearm shoots at a specific distance. Once you know this via several 5-shot targets, you can then adjust your adjustable sight handgun to zero the point of impact to the exact spot you wish to hit as a specific range.

ONE WAY TO IMPROVE YOUR ACCURACY . . .

Most folks purchase orange circle targets and try to align their sights at the bottom (six o'clock) position of the circle. THIS IS HARD TO SEE . . . expecially as you get older or if your eyesight makes it hard to focus on the front sight when you shoot (as you should always do) and yet also see the target clearly!

SUGGESTION . . .

As others have mentioned, pretty much, a good ratio for iron-sighted handgun accuracy is one inch 5-shot groupings per ten yards of distance. Thus your target should be a one inch one for ten years, 2" for twenty, 2 1/2" for 25, 5" for 50 . . . and 10" for 100 yards!

A BLACK SQUARE TARGET WORKS BEST . . . with 1" of square per ten yards! You'll find it super easy to align all three sight blades with each other, AND with the bottom of squares (of that ratio) at every distance I mentioned!

MAKE YOUR OWN!
I make mine on Microsoft Publisher, making sheets of multiple squares of the correct square ratio for each distance I shoot.

Here are a few examples I used when checking out a new (for me) snubbie O bought in October. No way could I have grouped this well with a snubbie using a fuzzy orange circle!

The 1" squares on the left target were thus shot at 10 yards, standing/unsupported. Notice the 5-shot group hit low on the center target.

The other two 2 1/2" squares target were shot at 25 yards in the same manner. Notice how two different 5-shot loads "grouped." The 5-shot groups give you a clear vision of where you can expect your rounds to go!

http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/363/363373/folders/277718/2217509M36with3targets.JPG

Eventually, I found a round that grouped 5-shots virtually dead center with that gun, so now I know what to shoot in it. Knowing this information gives me much confidence that I "could get the job done," if needed:

http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/363/363373/folders/277718/2248828Firsttarget.jpg

ONE FINAL EXAMPLE OF "GROUPS"
Here's a six shot group I fired, when sighting in my Model 29-5 S&W .44Mag for hunting season. One shot was a called "flyer," meaning I told the guy spotting for me that I'd fired LOW immediately after the round went off. I also called a couple of 'em high. I don't use a scope but WAS using a red dot sight, which helps sighting by eliminating the need to align three blades perfectly on the target . . . just get the dot perfect.

The target is a 5" black square at 50 yards. Thus, the five shot group WITHOUT the low flyer groups about 2 3/4" at fifty yards. Not bad, standing and unsupported! Also the group of three seemed "perfect" when I fired. These three were in the top half of the 5," meaning that this gun is shooting about 1 1/4" high, or a little more, at 50 yards . . . perfect for hunting from close in out to 100 yards!

I was quite excited to "cloverleaf" all three rounds I thought were "perfect" and equally excited to put all six rounds into less than five inches, standing/unsupported. Needless to say, knowing where the gun hits is EVERYTHING when you need to use it.

http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/363/363373/folders/282194/2278593M29freestandingtarget081807-edit2.jpg

Hope this helps you get a better understanding of the need to fire "groups" of carefully aimed shots to "average" where you are hitting!

BTW, THREE rounds fired from the bench on sandbags is usually sufficient for grouping a scoped rifle. Handguns, which are more of a challenge to master, should be tested with five or six.

T.

[Slugless]

Here's a good reference on handgun grip:

http://www.handgunsmag.com/tactics_training/grip_0925/