[txcookie]

Alright fellows

A guy gave me a ROA. He didnt know what he had thought it was a cheapo and I wasnt about to tell him diffrent.Any how I know next to nothing about it. I took it out on my rabbit hunt htis weekend to clear the cylinder (must have been loaded for a couple yrs atleast) and too my surprise was able to drille this can I found a 15 paces 5 out of 6 shots. Now I am all about this gun but dont know what to do with it? I need advice on it in every aspect from what to buy for it too how it needs maintained. Would thank you for any advice ou can give me!!!!!

[txcookie]

I mean really guys

I dont know anything about it \cept I really like the way it shot any advice would be great?

[JJBlanche]

http://www.curtrich.com/frontiersmen.html

Here's a great sight to get you started. The guy is a cowboy shooter, but it's all about the Ruger Old Army. If, after reading this, you still have some questions, let me know. I've done a ton of research on the ROA.

[txcookie]

I need to figure out what Kind of Caps Powder and bullets I need to get

I also need to know where I can get the parts to clean it like a nipple wrench and waht not?

[Pancho]

Tx, There is a stickie at the beginning of this forum that you should read. It covers in general most if not all of the aspects of shooting cap&ball revolvers. I'm going to check out JJ's url and probably put it on my favorites.

[Pancho]

Tx, I checked out JJ's site and it is specific to the ROA and a great site.

[txcookie]

JJs site is GTG


Are there sabot style bullets for hunting or do I have to use the ball? I am a bow hunter most the time so I am used to keeping my distance short and usually hunt only deer though hogs are definatly on the Menu

Just trying to get an idea as too if I can hunt with this?

[mykeal]

Many people use the ROA for hunting as either their primary or backup weapon. I don't believe sabot rounds are used, however. There are lubed conicals that will work very well.

[JJBlanche]

It should have come with a nipple wrench. Dixie Gun Works should have you covered for just about everything you can think of. www.dixiegunworks.com

Here are some Dixie part numbers for the appropriate supplies. Just type these numbers into the search:

RA2201 - 12" pistol cleaning rod with guide
UA0413 - .45 cleaning jag for above rod
BH1015 - .45 bronze bore brush (get 2 or 3 as they only last a few cleanings)
HA0460 - Powder Flask (comes w/ 24 grain spout)
QA0402 - Powder Measure
LC0203 - Bore Butter
LC0503 - No. 13 Bore Solvent
GA1206 - Loading Stand
LB0362 - Balls
BT1201 - Conical Bullets

I'm pretty sure this is just about everything you need to get started, besides some of the obvious stuff like cleaning patches, etc.

[the-ghost]

whats up cookie, this aint archery talk!:neener: .457 ball, and fffg or pyrodex p. there are several ways to work upaload. you came to the right place thats for sure, these guys know a bunch.

[JJBlanche]

By the way, IA0101 is the part number for Remington No. 10 caps. These are the best fit for an Old Army. CCI No. 10 do not fit. CCI No. 11 DO fit, but they may or may not loosen up after shooting.

[JJBlanche]

Also, the HA0630 flask is probably a better move than the colt navy one I mentioned. In order to fill the colt flask, you'd need to also get a separate screw in funnel, which is another ten bucks or so. The HA0630 has an easy screw off top.

[txcookie]

JJ

You gave me exactly what I was looking for! Gun was given to me from a guy who didnt know what he had:evil: I didnt hesitate and took what he called a cheapo replica his dad gave him off his hands:what:. Hope God approves of that move all the same I love it so far but have only shot it six times and would like to get to shooting it enough to use it on deer and hogs!

[Zeke/PA]

Most of what you need has already been mentioned but here is another $.02 worth.
I like Hornady.457 round balls or else home cast round balls.
I shoot 25 grains of FFFg with enough corn meal filler over powder to enable me to seat the ball 1/8" below the cylinder mouth.
I smear grease over the chamber mouths also.
I like the Old Army and it's the most accurate handgun that I own.
If you build yourself a loading stand, loading is much easier.
Zeke

[txcookie]

What do you use the corn meal for? and why?

Also How much am I gonna end up spending on this stuff to get started:uhoh:

[Macmac]

I read the link
http://www.curtrich.com/frontiersmen.html

There are errors on page 2, the author should address IMO.

He means .457 not .357!

I believe he snaffued the cornmeal as well as I have never seen anyone load corn meal OVER a ball..
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"""""""""FOR LIGHT LOADS:"""""""
""""""The Ruger Old Army was originally designed as a hunting weapon, and a full cylinder holds 50 gr. YOU DO NOT NEED 50 GR. LOADS FOR CAS! The stock rammer was designed for full charge loads. The lowest load it will compress is about 35 gr. (less with a Wonder Wad). That is more than is necessary for CAS. There are several ways to compress a smaller charge:
1. Ram normally, then insert a .357 rnl 158 gr. bullet between the rammer and the ball and ram again. That will compress 20 gr. or more. Negative: Constitutes an extra step.

2. After inserting the ball, fill the chamber with yellow corn meal. It will compress more than BP and will give you a very clean, consistent load. Or you can insert a 1/2" thick .45 wad (Circle Fly makes some).

Negative: It's an extra step, and Murphy's law is always waiting in the wings. I lost the Texas State Championship one year when I failed to insert powder before inserting the corn meal. Your procedures should be as simple as possible so you can do them right while working the unloading table and answering questions from curious spectators (my undoing). OR stop charging your pistols until you can concentrate on it."""""""
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Untill you can find a proper hex wrench I think a 1/4 drive socket set might work. You might need a deep socket and it should be "6 point". The ROA is unique to this tool.

You want to buy .457 round ball, and after you get used to the loadings you may find conicals and other forms of slugs.

You want to buy a flask with a cut off, and a spout to hold apx 20 grains.

You might buy several spouts, and adjustable measure to create your own loads from 50 to about 18 grains.

You may wish to buy another flask, and if so make sure it looks different, because you will load the flask with corn meal or hot cereal to take up space over the powder and under the ball. (If there is a way to ram cereal over the ball and have it do anything, and even stay there I don't know how that works..)

I only use Goex powder so can't help with other kinds.

I do use wool felt wads, in the .44 size. Since these are felt they crush. You may or not soak these in warmed lubes that varry widely.

I use home made lamb tallow mixed with animal oils I make from cooking wastes and bee's wax, which is common in sewing supply stores.

Plain hot water is all I use to clean with, unless I have made a real mess, and then I add dish detergent. I use plastic brushes mostly, but after a good cleaning if I find leading I will use a bronze brush, after the powder residue is gone.

BP eat bronze for breakfast lunch and dinner..

My personal paper plate killing load is 18 grains of FFFg, A few greased wads and a ball, or the same 18 grains FFFG , then apx 18 grains by volume hot cereal, and a ball. I keep powder in a traditional flask and corn meal/ cereal in a brass tube flask, so I don't load corn meal under powder.

[straight-shooter]

2. After inserting the ball, fill the chamber with yellow corn meal. It will compress more than BP and will give you a very clean, consistent load. Or you can insert a 1/2" thick .45 wad (Circle Fly makes some).

Don't you mean BEFORE inserting the ball ?

[JJBlanche]

Corn meal is used when you are not using a full load. Like Macmac said, putting it OVER the ball is a type-o on the article-writer's part. It needs to go UNDER the ball and OVER the powder. When the guy was talking about the .357 bullet, he was only referring to that as a way to get the ball to ram down (then you remove the .357). At least, this is what I can extrapolate from reading it. Only an idiot would leave a .357 bullet sitting loose over a .457 ball. Anyhow, that .357 crap is only useful for people that have unloaded .357 lead bullets laying around, which I'm going to assume you don't.

To answer your question directly, cornmeal is used so the stock loading lever can compress the load. Proper compression is KEY to proper functioning. The guy in that article says the ROA holds 50 grains, but I've heard between 40-45 for a ball... Basically, if you're not loading 40 grains under a ball, you need to add the difference in corn meal. For example, if you're shooting light target loads of 20 grains, you'd need to add 20 grains of corn meal on top of that so that the load lever compresses it properly. 20 grains is a good target load, and the 20 grains of meal filler is a helluva lot cheaper than 20 grains of powder.

Instead of the grease mess, you should use wonder wads over your powder (dixie part # PA3004). These wads serve two functions: the first, and most important, is to seal your gun against chain fires. Although chain fires are highly unlikely with an ROA, the added peace of mind is nice. The second is to keep lube in the barrel, and keep fouling soft.

Here is some load data for reference. I use triple seven FFFG powder, so these loads are for that. 777 is generally $10 more expensive than other powders, but is worth it, because it is cleaner and shoots 15% hotter/faster. Black powder/pyrodex/APP/ etc etc will give you very different results, and I can't give any loads for them because I don't have any experience with those types. Bottom line: If you're not a re-enactor or a cowboy action shooter, get triple seven.

Just the standard disclaimer: use this information at your own risk.

Grains are by volume (ie: what the measure I listed above will throw).

20 grains 777 + wonder wad + 20 grains meal + ball = Target Load

35 grains 777 + wonder wad + 5 grains meal + ball = Rabbit Load 950 FPS & 300 ft/lb (you might want to load this heavier or lighter to taste)

40 grains 777 + wonder wad + ball [no filler] = Max Load Round Ball (enough to take a deer, but conicals are better for that....this is a good turkey load out to 50 yards) 1100 FPS & 400 ft/lbs

35 grains 777 + wonder wad + 220 grain conical [no filler] (available here under "specialty ball": http://stores.ebay.com/Cheap-Shot ) = Full Hunting Load (deer, boar...bear in a pinch) 1000 FPS & 500 ft/lb

Well, that about wraps it up. You do have to spend more out of the box to shoot a black powder arm, but they're more fun. After the initial investment, all you have to spring for are caps, balls/bullets, and powder. I spent a little over $200 on supplies. Kind of a bummer, but, again, it's only a one time investment.

[JJBlanche]

Regarding the nipple wrench: they are unique to Ruger. I wouldn't goober it up trying to get them out of there with other tools. Just give Ruger HQ a call, and they'll probably send you one for free...if not, it'll only be like $5.

Also, and I should have mentioned this before, make sure you go to www.ruger.com and read the instruction manual for the Old Army. It tells you important things like how to get the cylinder out, and stuff like that. Alternately, you can just have Ruger send you an Old Army manual with the nipple wrench.

[txcookie]

Thanks a bunch. I think this could get pretty darn fun. I printed the manual off their website and will be calling them tomorrow about a nipple wrench. I plan to buy everything needed and get this puppy shooting good for next yrs deer season were ever I may be:cool: Might even carry it with me in Mar for Pigs.

[JNewell]

Wonder if I can piggyback on this thread...

I am looking at (actually, bought, but could return...it was a very long drive to the vendor) a Ruger Old Army. I have had a 7 1/2" blued adjustable for a number of years. This one is 5 1/2" bright stainless fixed. I wonder if I could get some feedback...

1. This one appears to have been fired a lot. There is a very strong ring around the cylinder. There are a couple of places where it looks like it got a good whack or a drop, although those are all marginal in terms of functional and cosmetic issues. The cylinder pin is a little sprung, but I did that to mine once so I think I know how that happened and I know how to fix it. These revolvers are so far over-built for black powder loads that I really doubt that even heavy use should be an issue, but that is question 1: how do these things hold up after a lot of miles on the clock?

2. In addition to modest fore-aft cylinder play, there is some side-to-side (as opposed to rotational) movement on the cylinder pin. My lightly used ROA has some sideways play on the pin, but it's less. In a modern DA revolver this would be unacceptable, but question 2 is: is lateral play a problem for accuracy? Do they all do this?

[Whippy]

Sorry txcookie, what you have is a cheapo knock off and the best thing for you to do is to box it up and send it to me in South Carolina :D

:neener:

[JJBlanche]

JN: Don't know exactly what you mean regarding the cylinder pin, but when my gun is fully assembled, neither the pin nor the cylinder move at all.

I know a good number of people that have 1st year old armies, and say they look and shoot like new.

[txcookie]

Looks like theres a few people who know me from AT. Everyone needs a Gun site to go too and this place looks cool to me! Already gotten most all the info I needed for my ROA.

[txcookie]

JN

Mine is solid like a rock when assembled. I dont know much about it yet but I wouldnt handle it if it were not solid and GTG!

[sundance44s]

The lateral play isn`t as big an issue with revolvers as the side play issue ..the lateral play will cause a loss of gasses between the cylinder and forceingcone the side play issue will cause lead spitting from the forceing cone due to poor line up .

[Macmac]

SS, I have problems with the artical... it wasn't me that said to put corn meal filler on top of a ball.. that is in the artical and I quoted it..

I missed the fact the .357 bullet was a tool to ram a .457 ball deeper.

Just seeing anything about a .357 bullet in the artical perked my sences..

Personally I do not like round balls rammed deep in the cylinder bore. I can't prove it, but I believe moving a ball from deep in a clyinder bore at high speed tends to strip lead when it enters the forcing cone and so tends to strip rifling.

The ROA can hold a ball and 50 grains of FFFg. I see no need to shoot 50 grains of FFFG in the ROA unless you are hunting..

My loads tend to be apx 18-20 grains of powder, and so I use filler, UNDER the BALL. Then the charge is apx 40 grains over all of powder AND filler, topped with a .457 ball.

I have no idea HOW anyone can put filler on top of a ball.. Seems to me it would just fall out.

If it doesn't fall out I still have no idea why anyone would place filler on top of the ball.. I think it is a error, more than a typo.

I read the artical because, I read it contained good info, and I am not so sure how good the info is.

I don't like that .357 idea one bit either.

To me there is no good reason to drive a .457 ball deep to meet a low powder charge. I understand there SHALL be NO AIR Space, but driving a ball to meet 20 grains of powder is just to deep in the clyinder to suit me.

A well loaded assembly of products leaves the ball just below flush with the clyinder face. That includes any lube.

[mykeal]

Macmac,

It's an excellent article, well written and very informative. It does contain an error with respect to the order of loading; it is a simple error and I don't believe it is his actual practice, but rather an error in writing the article.

The use of a ram extension to seat the ball on a light load of powder is common practice and highly recommended by many practitioners. While the practice of using filler to move the ball as close to the end of the chamber mouth is a good one, essentially for improved accuracy, it is not mandatory and many people, such as myself, find they cannot shoot well enough to take advantage of the improvement. As such it thus becomes an extra, unnecessary step involving additional materials that one must keep track of. In summary, I've tried it and it isn't worth my time, while seating the ball on the powder clearly is.

So you have one error and one difference of opinion (which is not, by the way, universally held). I suggest that isn't enough to condemn the entire article. I'd hate for someone to simply dismiss the body of my posts on the basis of an occasional error in proofreading or, God help me, judgment.

[Zeke/PA]

As someone mentioned the ROA nipples are unique!
To remove or install them, I use an appropriate nut driver.
Zeke

[Macmac]

mykeal Thanks for clearing that up... While I could not see how filler would stay put, I had supposed dumping enough to ram the ball more might work.. tad messey but i suppose it could work.

I misread about the use of the .357 ball/conical as a ram rod extension. I took that as a typo. I might not have if he said he used a .38 calibur slug as a tool..

Being old school I tend to do things old school. Personally I don't find 2 flasks all that akward. One with powder and one with filler.

Same goes with my flinters.. One horn for powder chaging and another for prime. Sometimes I use the main horn as both charge and primer, as it depends on if I am hunting or just punching paper.

The difference some un-measurable time of flashing the pan to Boom...

So I can't tell, but when hunting I want the most accurate load as fast as possible. I do what I have learned by reading, shooting with old timers and other guys who shoot beter than me.

[straight-shooter]

I just wanted to make light of the error in the article so if a beginner were to read it, they wouldn't try this at home :)

I still subscribe to the thought of adding filler so the ball is flush with the front of the cylinder. Although most likely a extra step it just makes me feel better. On a nice day at the range when friends are around, no hurry needed.

[Macmac]

SS, My take was you had the idea I said it first... That some how it was an idea I use..

To me typos and errors under loading tech are sins worthy of editing to be correct.

Sometimes the errors and typos lend the wrong ideas, and some of these can get folks hurt..

That was the main point. I don't know it all, and I was wondering if someone here might really add filler over a ball some how for some reason...

All the time people add saw dust to wax and call it a fire starter... What that really is, is good kindling... But it, by itself won't start fire.

[mykeal]

Just one more post for clarification -

I believe using filler to move the ball to the chamber mouth is a good thing to do. I have seen compelling evidence that it increases accuracy. But I'm not a good enough shot that I can take advantage of the improvement one gets from taking the time to do it. Younger guys with better eyes, fingers, hands and arms absolutely should do it. Me - I just have to get closer to the target.

[Macmac]

mykeal , You don't need to move any closer to the target, you need to get bigger targets like me! ;-)

[JJBlanche]

Macmac: I do agree with the fact that the guy who wrote the article should change the corn meal to UNDER ball, and clarify with the whole .38 slug as tool thing. After all, it is a write-up geared toward Old Army newbies.

[Macmac]

Just for grins I pulled my ROA apart and I found any 1/4" drive 3/16" socket will be perfect to remove nipples.. The nipples are 3/16". I had never measured this before because I have the tool...