LNL OAL Varies


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Wilburt
February 4, 2008, 04:42 PM
i did a search trying to find an anwser but couldn't find enough. Anyway I am using RCBS 45 ACP dies (seat/crimp) and my OAL only vaired +-.001 on my rock chucker. Using the same on my LNL AP it varies +-.006. At first i thought it was my primers not seating well and it was to some extent (+-.0015) But after resovling that i still can't seem to get it right. I am using HG 68 style LSWC.:confused:

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Wilburt
February 5, 2008, 08:03 PM
I measured with some calibers and it turns out that they range from 1.246 to 1.255 inches. I'm just makeing cheap range ammo but i was shooting for 1.246-1.250 and the 1.255 doesn't feed so it seems to be a problem. Any thoughts would be apreciated.

JackOfAllTradesMasterAtNone
February 5, 2008, 08:18 PM
Measure some unloaded bullets and see how much they vary.

Measure both OAL and diameter where the seating plunger contacts the bullet.

Take a look at the seating plunger inside the die. Make sure there isn't bullet lube or lead dust/particles stuck up in there.

You're talking about a 1% variation with your loads. I doubt your bullet weights vary that little.

Seat them a couple thousanths deeper so they'll cycle through your pistola.

A solid D style single stage press is most often more accurate than any of the progressive or turret presses.

-Steve

JFettig
February 5, 2008, 08:39 PM
when your running straight through, all stations filled does it do it then? I find that if I'm only running a seating process, the bullet will seat deeper. If I'm running all stations simultaneously I have no issues.

Jon

Wilburt
February 5, 2008, 10:55 PM
"You're talking about a 1% variation with your loads. I doubt your bullet weights vary that little."

So that's normal? I guess i'm new to progressives. I thought .009 was alot of variation. The bullets are a bit differant in lenth. I cleaned the die recently so the lead/lube isn't the problem. And i am running all sttions at once.

JFettig
February 5, 2008, 11:11 PM
I personally think you should get better consistency. What bullets are you using? Are they high quality? When I load .223 FMJ I get variation because of cheap bullets, but when I load V-max they are all dead on(except for that first one).
Same goes for 9mm, the first is .005-.01" shorter than the rest, but after that first one they are all the same length.

Jon

jenrob
February 6, 2008, 05:04 AM
Here's my sign (thats for me) are you useing the right seating stem you should have 2 one for round nose one for swc.
Also if you alway keep all the station with a case in them it will run more uniform. Learned this on a friends Dillon. and now use the same tech on my LNL when you are running your last rounds through have a case in all station but either pull your powder dispenser out or pull the case to keep from getting powder out the flash hole (another one of those here's you sign moments I had) if you pull the case you need to put it back in for the next step.
Doing it this way keeps the same amount of pressure present on the ram at all times.

hairtrigger
February 6, 2008, 09:41 AM
Call Hornady.. Their customer service people are very helpful

Wilburt
February 6, 2008, 10:34 AM
Thanks. i am noticing the variation while in the middle of the run. i ran 75 through with all stations in use and i got +-.009 on the lot. But i did not know that when all stations are in use it makes a differnce so thanks. the bullets are fairly cheap so that could be part of it. They are from a local caster and i mic'd the oal and they do have about .008 inch diff. I am using the right plud which is designed for SWC not RN. I might give hordany a call and see if they know anything. Thanks

JackOfAllTradesMasterAtNone
February 6, 2008, 11:58 AM
I would venture to say that your bullets are the biggest factor. Even the best lead bullet will have some variation after it hardens/cures. Lead bullets poured from multiple gang molds will have size variations to the thousanths of inches. A variation of the diameter of the slug above the seating area will set at a different depth in the pud of the seating die. So, if you've got a .3% variation through press operation, .2% variation throughout your brass, .5% variation with the bullets, then it's safe to say that you'll end up with a 1% variation with the final components. It all adds up. Even good lead bullets still vary in weight by 2%. Premium target rifle bullets often vary by .8% bullet weight. (That's 1.3gn for a 165gn bullet.) Although you will not see that much difference with dimmensions for premium jacketed bullets.

Re-reading your original post, you say that the rounds from the RC gave the most consistant results. I would expect this since it has less moving parts than any progressive press.

-Steve

Shoney
February 6, 2008, 12:44 PM
Using lead bullets that vary greatly and considering that the lube on them will vary, and considering that the lube build upvaries as you load in the seating die - - all in all I'd say your resulting OAL are pretty good.

In the tests a friend and I ran using jacketed bullets, the LNL has less run out than my single stage presses and my 550 and the friends 650.

SDefender
February 6, 2008, 01:52 PM
On my LNL, .45 auto will vary +- .005 or so. I have found this is because of differences in concentricity of the bullet ogive, especially where the seating plug contacts it. Montana Gold JHP are around .003 at worst, with .0015 probably being close to average and Zero JHP are .005+.

I believe case "springingness" (new word? :)) can also cause this with mixed brass and different neck tensions. Actually I have the most problems with CCI Blazer Brass in .45 auto, which for the 1000+ I have, has weak neck tension compared to IMI, Federal and Starline. On about 15% of my handloads using CCI brass, double thumb pressure can cause various types of bullets to set back. And when pulling bullets from new Blazer cartridges, they come out VERY easy, compared to my other OEM loads.

I know this can be VERY aggravating and took me quite awhile to figure out what the issue was. But once you get it figured out in your circumstances, it becomes a non-issue.

JackOfAllTradesMasterAtNone
February 6, 2008, 04:16 PM
:D Not to steal this thread!

Standing on my soap box now. 'Montana Gold' bullets! Have you ever put them through a gun in a Ransom Rest? I CAN THROW ROCKS AND GET BETTER GROUPS! These are barely good enough for Bowling Pin Shooting.

And CCI Blazer brass...

There's a phrase that comes to mind- Sometimes you get what you pay for.

This is where our component selection can make our premium equipment look bad. Really bad.

-Steve

Wilburt
February 6, 2008, 04:34 PM
On my LNL, .45 auto will vary +- .005 or so. I have found this is because of differences in concentricity of the bullet ogive, especially where the seating plug contacts it. Montana Gold JHP are around .003 at worst, with .0015 probably being close to average and Zero JHP are .005+.

Well that makes sense. I guess since it's normal i have nothing to worry about. It was very aggravationg at first. thanks

SDefender
February 6, 2008, 05:19 PM
Concerning the post from J-O-A-T-M-A-N:

I find MG .45 auto, 200 JFN bullets to be accurate at the SD distances I shoot and this is the first post I have read with a negative response to MG. GlockTalk folks seem to love them. All others I have read expound MG virtues. In measuring the MG bullet weights, I find them to be the most consistent of anything I have purchased.

http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=822061

And even though I have not have had good luck with CCI Blazer Brass and certainly can't recommend it from my experiences, I have read other posts where folks like the CCI brass. It is just not for me.

1911NM
February 6, 2008, 05:35 PM
I didn't notice, in your post, whether you were using a taper crimp die separately. Just the action of a roll crimp will change OAL.

Wilburt
February 6, 2008, 05:59 PM
I am using a Seat/taper crimp die from rcbs.

Steve Koski
February 6, 2008, 06:21 PM
.009 sucks.

ranger335v
February 7, 2008, 11:29 AM
Wilburt, I'm not sure I understand. You say, "i ran 75 through with all stations in use and i got +-.009 ..." Is that true, you are getting a spread of .018" in OAL? If so, that's a lot and indicates that you have something very loose in your equipment - the press linkage or the seating die itself.

Walkalong
February 7, 2008, 11:36 AM
I use an old Projector. (Forerunner to the LNL) I size and then prime before I run brass trhough to reload so I am not getting any interference from resistance of the sizing die. (not why I do it, just a nice side affect)

Some bullet/case/neck tension combinations will vary maybe .002 - (ex: 1.210 to 1.212) while some will vary more like .005 - (ex: 1.210 to 1.215)

I am not wild about a .005 overall varience where I get it, but they seem to shoot just as well as those that do better.

Wilburt
February 8, 2008, 01:23 PM
i ran 75 through with all stations in use and i got +-.009 I ment to say +-.006 which is a diferance of .012 overall. i though i fixed that post in an edit

Wilburt
February 8, 2008, 01:26 PM
I called Hornady this morning and they said that round finish or the diferance in leading on the tip can throw things off. they said that the bullet ogive is the only correct way to measure and b/c i am using lead that is probally my problem.

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