[Sergeant Honor]

Well I figured since the Demoncats might come into office its probably time I buy an "Evil Black Assault Weapon" with a "shoulder thing that goes up" :p But i want to avoid that 11% Tax thing i keep hearing about on full rifles. Can some of you AR owners reccomend me some good companies that will give me a reliable excellent rifle at a good affordable price?

[TexasRifleman]

Dark dirty secret of ARs.... Arfcom will explode so be careful who you tell ;)

Nearly any AR company out there makes an acceptable product for 99% of users.
If you are one of the 1% you already know what to get.

You will hear a story here or there with good news and tales of horror about all of the major makers.

Buy what you like at a price you like. If there really is some kind of ban, restriction, etc the maker won't matter.

[BozemanMT]

Yeah, what he said
But no olympic (ewww run away, run away)

LMT makes some really nice stuff.
RRA, Stag are fine for regular stuff.

Remember, on AR's the lower is the gun, the upper is just machine parts.
Buy lowers.

[dm1333]

I'm not trying to get on your case, especially since this was your first post, but you might want to:

Read the rules about posting, the mods have been cracking down on the use of terms such as Demoncat, Billary, Klinton, PRK, and general bashing of Democrats and Californians. Just remember that all gun grabbers are not Democrats and all Democrats are not bad!

The search function can be your friend but it can also be overwhelming. For a good example type in "Wolf Ammo" and see what happens.

Now that I'm done with the unsolicited advice, welcome to THR! I'm partial to Stag and CMMG because that is what I bought. I would not hesitate to buy another Stag lower or even a Bushmaster or RRA. At work the M16s are all Colt lowers and in great shape for all of the abuse they have taken.

[Run&Shoot]

A good source of info is ar15.com discussion boards. The supporting businesses there have a good reputation. One of the cheapest with a good rep (they use Wilson barrels and I think CMT uppers) is

http://www.del-ton.com/

A couple of active participants with very solid rifles and components are:

http://global-tactical.com/
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/
http://www.pkfirearms.com/store/start.aspx

Generally you will get a good rifle from Rock River Arms, DPMS, Bushmaster, and Stag. A little more expensive yet still affordable are LMT, and CMMG. CMMG has some great deals on their web site Bargain Bin. These are used rifles that have mixed upper/lower parts but have been function tested. Everyone that has bought one and posted praise them as a great value. These are usually in the $550 - $650 range but are equivalent to new ones at $800 - $850.

Top end would be Noveske, Barrett, and Knights for example.

If you are concerned about a ban then the only restricted part of the AR15 is the serial numbered lower receiver. You can buy stripped lowers of DPMS, Stag, Bushmaster, etc for about $120. Then add a lower parts kit for about $60, a stock for $75, and a complete upper receiver for $550. Or buy about four of the stripped receivers now and gradually acquire the other parts to build them up.

You also will want to be stocking up on AR mags. Go to www.44mag.com for best prices on milspec magazines. You get the basic ones for $10 apiece, or upgraded ones for $14.

One of the most popular configurations is the 16" barrel in either Govt or Medium Contour (MedCon), chrome lined barrel and chamber, A2 flash hider (cheapest) with the middie length gas tube (between the carbine and rifle lengths). This allows you to have a carbine length AR with the bayonet lug at the proper position (carbine gas tube puts it too far rearward) for attachment, and the middie gas system is easier on the components than the carbine.

If cost is an issue focus on the magazines and lower for now, or a basic complete rifle. You can always upgrade the bolt and bolt carrier (full auto, MP tested, shot peened, chromed is about the best), barrel, handguards, and butt stock ata later date.

[KC&97TA]

Your darn right, get those lowers... I just got another, wish I could scoop up a few more, but the wife said something about a "house" and I have to agree, she's been more than accepting of my big boys toys for the past 5 years.

If you don't want to read this post: if the lower is in the $120-$140 range and you've heard it mentioned with out "run away", it's usally "good enough".

My #1 is RRA, #2 is CMMG, Bushy, DPMS... have personally owned these or thier parts. I have a Fulton .308 reciever, but wouldn't if not for state law, I'd have just purchased a DPMS.

You can skimp on the lower, but don't get crazy cheap, I have 2 - CMMG AR15 lowers, but RRA everything else putting them together, this has been a 100% reliable set up, except for 1 bad mag on my M4-gery... never a single issue besides that mag with bent feed lips... also a NM RRA upper that has produced sub 1 MOA .223 1000yard 5 shot groups, useing 77gr molly coated black hills ammo.

In My Humble Opintion as the Assistant Cheif Weapons Instructor for a High Speed / High Drag unit, 95% of rifles can out shoot the man behind the butstock, I truely believe that and all I've done for the last 3 years is Weapons.

When you can out shoot the gun, then step up to a Kotonics or Fulton!

You can get a lower for as cheap as an EA for $86, on the website pictures, I don't find the finish all that great. For $128 CMMG matches up to RRA and Bushy in finish though. The meat and potatoes is in the upper, spend a little bit on a quality upper, such as; RRA, Bushmaster, CMMG... you don't have to get Colt, FN, Fulton Armory to have a great upper.

Make sure you buy a quality LPK... there's nothing more painfull to a man or woman, than building an AR and haveing a hammer pin break on the range, because you bought a Model 1 parts kit for $55, instead of a RRA or DPMS for $70... that $15 won't save you much latter on down the road.

AR's aren't legos, some "AR Lego" builders get lucky... I have an upper build for $61 + trades... it was luck that it runs great. I don't recomend frankestening AR's, I did mine with quality lightly used parts and good deals.

Some manufactures: Like DPMS, sell thier lowers to companies... such as Fulton Armory, and they're exactly the SAME just a different company logo and different company price... but Fulton is CA off list ;) I'm sure more than a few companys slap thier name on lowers like Fulton does with DMPS lowers.

off topic:

Read the rules about posting, the mods have been cracking down on the use of terms such as Demoncat, Billary, Klinton, PRK, and general bashing of Democrats and Californians. Just remember that all gun grabbers are not Democrats and all Democrats are not bad!

if you live in the PRCK, have to deal with the laws that violate our 2nd ammendment rights, those laws voted into law by democrats or how the PRCK voted into law a never ending assult weapons ban that was a state sponsored spin off of the brady-bunch, signed into law under the Klinton Klan... I think we have a small bit of right to make such statements against such people, as it is fact that some states and political parties tend to tread on our 2nd ammendment rights more than other particular places and persons of other political parties. I maynot want to go bust clay with Dick Cheney, but I'd rather be shot with bird shot than have my 2nd ammendment rights stepped on.

God Bless the Great Gun owners in places like CA who continue to build AR's from off list lowers, following the guidelines of the law... because the end result isn't rebelion or a happy median... it just showes that gun control laws only hurt the honest, not the criminial. Though many complain about "NCIS Insta-Check", it is a better system so you can "cash and carry" over waiting 10 days to pick up your double barrel clay buster, when you have a full blown M4-gery sitting in the safe.

[ugaarguy]

But no olympic (ewww run away, run away)
Olympic quit using cast receivers on the plinkster model several years ago. They're the Savage of AR-15s - The finish is ugly, but the guns are functional, and the money's in the barrel. Because of their mediocre reputation you can often find lightly used Olympic parts for a song.

Otherwise get your hands on decent lowers and add uppers later. Have fun with the project.

[possum]

i love bushmaster, i have owned and/or shot almost all thier models and have been impressed with everyone. also check out rra, and stag.

if you don't plan on running your guns hard, and training with them, if they aren't gonna getr abused to much then there are even more companies out there that will give you a good pshooter for less, but for the quality and the performance of the guns listed above they are well worth the money, and they will serve you well.

[Ridgerunner665]

Smith & Wesson M&P 15's are the best buy on the market...you get quality parts and a Mil-spec rifle, except the barrel which is 4140 chrome lined instead of 4150 CMV chrome lined...but if you're not going into battle...you will never notice. S&W AR's are no longer made by Stag....they are slightly higher quality than Stag (IMO). They use LMT M16 BCG's, all parts are properly staked....and mine will shoot 3/4 MOA with good handloads.

EDIT: I thought I should add that I put 800 rounds through mine in 8 hours, the day I got it...I took it out of the box, ran a dry patch down the bore, removed the bolt carrier and lubed it all up good, put it back together and my son and I shot the **** out of it..... 0 malfuntions, ammo used was 400 rounds of Ultramax and 400 rounds of Remington UMC. I did relube the BCG about every 100 rounds or so. Thats a reliability test...and it passed.

[Acheron]

Ignore what people say about Olympic. They had some issues about 10-15 years ago that have since been corrected. A lot of people are going off of outdated information.


But for an affordable quality AR go with Olympic, Rock River Arms, Stag, or DPMS.

[nosliw]

I've got an Armalite and I like it. Compared to Bushy, Sig and RRA. This was as-nice and cheapest.

[ckay]

I could recommend RRA for quality, function, and price. M4 feed ramps, bolts properly staked, and 2,000 rounds through the tube mostly being Wolf and no FTFs or FTEs yet *knock on wood*

Two stage RRA parts kit and it is one crisp firearm. Buddy has a DPMS, quite a bit of play between the lower and upper...mine has glove-like fit.

[kiko1]

Love my RRA M4!

[RockyMtnTactical]

Stag Arms and LMT are my favorites.

[HorseSoldier]

+1 on LMT.

[buck00]

One of the best kept secrets of the AR world:

http://www.dpmsinc.com/

[Schuey2002]

My next Black Rifle will be made by either Lewis Machine & Tool or Noveske Rifleworks down in Grants Pass... :evil:

[Ridgerunner665]

I need $300 (about 3 weeks)...then I'm going to order me an LMT too.
I'm going to order in 2 parts (complete 16" upper and a complete lower)

[brentn]

I like armalite quite a bit, never have had a problem with my 11.5" and over 1000 rounds..

However, like its been stated, all companies are pretty good

[trigga]

i don't know if there really is a tax on the full rifle because i've seen various prices for them by different people but for my bushy, i save almost $200 by buying the upper and bottom receivers separate. but again this doesn't not include the extras they usually throw in like a case, extra magazine, and other misc when you buy their combo.

[Sergeant Honor]

Well after a long thought out process i've come to a decision Im either going with:

http://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_ID=199

but my only deal is since this is my first AR (i've owned only AK's and mil-spec bolt actions) I would have to buy a full lower and then add all these parts i know nothing about into it :what:

http://www.dpmsinc.com/store/products/?prod=46

Im leaning toward this full rifle right here with a nice FREE stock upgrade added on.

Opinions/(offers to put it together :p) welcome

[BozemanMT]

well, those are basically teh same thing
that crappy $30 4 position stock just isn't the thing.
don't sweat the stock. Get a nice good stock (Magpul, LMT, VLTOR, others) that you can actually get a good cheek weld on and is solid and stable.

Remember, if you buy a flattop, you either need a BUIS, a carry handle or some optics (or both),

[green-grizzly]

I have had good luck with RRA. They seem to have the tightest tolerances of any manufacturer in my experience, and the fit and finish of their parts has always been good. DPMS is OK, but I would go with RRA.

It is a pretty easy to assemble a lower. If you are only going to do it once and don't have the necessary punches, it would probably be cheaper to buy a complete lower though.

Most of my ARs have Bushmaster barrels and lower parts kits, CMT receivers and stocks, and LMT bolt carrier groups. It is nice to be able to pick and choose.

[1911 guy]

Buy a copy of "Shotgun News" and find a Bushmaster lower with 6 position stock. Take it to your friendly neighborhood dealer and ask him to order it for you.

Order an upper where you can find a good deal on quality parts. All makers mentioned so far will serve well for personal use.

Personally, I only own one with a telescoping stock, and that's because my wife can't use a fixed due to her small stature.

If I remember correctly, you're not avoiding the tax altogether. You're just paying it on a much smaller amount, 100-150 vs 800-1,200. Saves you money, but expect some tax anyway. Then again, I was wrong once before. I might be again.

[transformerguru]

I am also looking into purchasing the black gun. Here is my dilemma. I want to get a pre '86 ban Colt SP1. I am thinking about doing Vietnam reenacting and using it as a plinker. My thing is, if I wanted to use it for hunting would say a RRA upper in say 30.06 fit the lower. I am relitively new to the AR platform, I know about it but really never took the time to really familiarize myself with it. So any info sent my way would be appreciated.

[TIMC]

My experience...
I have
one Colt AR - Great rifle fantastic shooter
Two Bushmasters one .223 M4gery and one AR-10. Both are great but I love the AR-10.
Newest AR in my family is the Alexander Arms .50 Beowulf. I'll give it a whirl at the range next Thursday

[gunsmith]

Good info and good advice.
I am way behind on AR15's and know only a little, I got ripped off 3 years ago when I had money and have not had it since.
But with the new political climate I am looking to build.
I can't seem to join ar15.com for some reason, my main yahoo email don't work and my paid email seems to be ignored.
Oh well...I'm subscribing to this thread!
Thank you guys , very much!

[green-grizzly]

transformerguru:
I am also looking into purchasing the black gun. Here is my dilemma. I want to get a pre '86 ban Colt SP1. I am thinking about doing Vietnam reenacting and using it as a plinker. My thing is, if I wanted to use it for hunting would say a RRA upper in say 30.06 fit the lower. I am relitively new to the AR platform, I know about it but really never took the time to really familiarize myself with it. So any info sent my way would be appreciated.
No, you could not fit a 30-06 upper on a .223 lower. RRA makes a 308 AR (which takes FAL mags), but it and the 223 receivers are not compatible. You can't fit a 308 magazine in a 223 mag well, and a 30-06 mag would even be longer than a 308.

I don't think RRA makes a 30-06 AR upper; the only one I have heard of is from Cobb and it requires a special lower receiver. There are a number of 308 AR manufacturers (KAC, RRA, DPMS), and more are apparently getting ready to enter the market. The 308 rifles are quite heavy.

In some states it is legal to hunt deer with a 223, but it is a pretty marginal round. SP1s are great fun, but probably get a bolt action in a more powerful round (or a 308 AR) for deer. On drawback to the SP1 is that you will be limited to bullets 60 grains and under; the rifle's twist will not stabilize heavier bullets, including surplus M855.

[transformerguru]

Tanks for the info green-grizzly. I have great bolt action rifles, but like I said I'm kinda dumb(more just green) to the AR platform. So, if I am understanding right .223 uppers are pretty much universal then? I ask because the SP1's do not have the forward assist and for shooting I am thinking I would want that, where for the reenacting the standard upper would just be fine.

[Fish Miner]

I just got the DPMS 556 and I love it- I like it more then my friends Bushy, but I might be biased. And there are lots of add ons for it as well. I am no means an expert but I do like what I have seen so far in about 500 rnds ,,,,,

[KC&97TA]

I am also looking into purchasing the black gun. Here is my dilemma. I want to get a pre '86 ban Colt SP1. I am thinking about doing Vietnam reenacting and using it as a plinker. My thing is, if I wanted to use it for hunting would say a RRA upper in say 30.06 fit the lower. I am relitively new to the AR platform, I know about it but really never took the time to really familiarize myself with it. So any info sent my way would be appreciated.

AR15 lowers can use uppers most commonly chambered in:
9mm, .40s&w, .45acp, .50b, .22lr, .223/5.56mm, 7.62x39, 6.5g, 6.8spc, .300 wisper. To run the 9mm upper I know the hammer needs to be changed out or the standard .223 modified.

AR10 lowers are pretty much limited to .308 I believe, but any short caseing could be adapted.

I don't know were .243 or .260 fall into, DPMS sells a .260, I've seen a few .243 on the EE on ARF

the only AR chambered in 30-06 that I know of is Cobb... hope you have a fat wallet, cause they aren't cheap.

There's guys on ARF.com, that have shot some "Big Pigs" and more than a few deer with 6.8spc, it's virtually a .277 with a short case. I may build a 6.8 upper once I get done with my current project.

[Sergeant Honor]

Im purchasing the DPMS after some discussion on the AR 15 website's forums :) i cant wait to get me some 5.56 lovin :P im gonna use it in conjuction with my shotgun for HD and of course fun at the range. What is the best ammo to use for HD though? I live in a nice suburban house btw

[PILMAN]

How are the Rockriver AR15's? A lot of people are heavily recommending them to me, but are the barrels chromelined? Also the receivers aren't cast are they?

[Run&Shoot]

A small clarification. The .243 and .260 use the same case as the .308 except for the neck size. So there are really two common lower receiver sizes (limited by the mag well opening): the original .223 which can also accept the variety of calibers already mentioned, and the .308 size which accepts uppers and mags for .308, .260 and .243.