[Owen Meany]

Here's the jaw-dropping description from Extreme Shock's site (I know most of you have likely come across it in your travels, but still...):

The compressed Tungsten-NyTrilium™ Composite fragments upon impact, leaving a wound channel of catastrophic proportions. The expansive fragmentation characteristics of the ExtremeShock rounds transfer the bullets energy in a far faster time span than conventional hollowpoints. The resulting stopping power is utterly devastating. E-Shock rounds are engineered to expend maximum energy into soft targets, turning the density mass into an expanding rotational cone of NyTrilium matrix particles, causing neurological collapse to the central nervous system.

NyTriilium matrix particles? Come on. Can anybody explain in layman's terms what material they are actually using, and how it is formed into bullets? :confused: I saw the word "Tungsten" in there somewhere, I think, but can anybody elaborate?

Anybody have some of this ammo (gasp)? Shot any?

And no, I'm not thinking of purchasing Extreme Shock :D. I'm well aware of the inadequacy of frangible rounds for general defensive purposes. But I am extremely curious to find out about this stuff.

[esol]

I'm pretty sure they're made of microscopic ninjas

honestly though i have no idea... a google search for "NyTrilium" or "Tungsten-NyTrilium" turns up nothing but ads for their product or discussions about their product. and while humorous, none of them give any clue of what Tungsten-NyTrilium Composite actually is

so maybe they really are made of microscopic ninjas????

[esq_stu]

I carried it the "fang face" rounds in a P3AT. I think I was sold a bill of goods. The store that sold them to me told me all the B.S. in their ads and convinced me to carry them. Eventually, after a lot of reading, I decided to use 'em up at the range, sell my 3AT, and carry a 9mm with CorBon ammo.

[bensdad]

Made of... Snakes and snails and puppydog tails.

No matter. I'm bad at posting links, so go to Box-O-Truth and check out the tests they ran on them. Not great.

[copaup]

I seem to remember a post where someone ran an analysis on the Extreme Shock stuff. I believe the lab results revealed that the super hi tech material was in fact: lead.

[CWL]

wasn't it metal shavings held together with epoxy?

Similiar to the other frangible ammo currently available for cheaper from more reputable companies.

[geophysicishooter]

Capital 'N', small 'y', big f*%@in' 'T' !! what a great advertising idea. They'll get high and stare at it. "The T is talkin' to me, the T is talkin to me"

[PTK]

I believe it's pretty much a lower-tech version of Glaser slugs, i.e. powdered/chipped metal (lead, tungsten, who knows, really?) in 5 minute epoxy, formed inside a copper jacket. It works, sure, but they want quite a bit of money per round.

[Keegan]

Capital 'N', small 'y', big f*%@in' 'T' !! what a great advertising idea. They'll get high and stare at it. "The T is talkin' to me, the T is talkin to me"
Can we get these rounds in a green death f$*%#in' flavor?

[geekWithA.45]

LANGUAGE, people.

This is a family site.

And whatever they're made of, frangible rounds come with penetration issues.

I will have to ask a brain surgeon how being shot in the toe with an expanding rotational cone of anything will cause neurological collapse to the central nervous system.


Here's the box-0-truth on the topic: http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot23.htm

[PX4-Storm]

personally i like the Corbon powerball for my 9mm, beretta.

[Conqueror]

I've written about these rounds a lot. Their claims defy the laws of physics and grammar.

"Density mass" is a made up term, simply a combination of two units of measure. It's like saying "volume length" or "weight distance." It's a complete fabrication meant to sound impressive while conveying no information.

"Expanding rotational cone" is physically impossible. Once the bullet fragments, the laws of physics dictate that its pieces will move in a straight line tangential to their original axis of rotation. In other words, the particles cannot continue to rotate about the bullet's flight axis after the bullet has fragmented. It is not possible in this universe.

Nor are their dual claims of faster energy transfer AND deeper penetration. You cannot have both. A bullet moves at a given speed - if it gives up its kinetic energy faster, it MUST stop sooner - ie, at a more shallow depth in the target. Claiming that your bullet dumps all its energy immediately - but then continues deeper into the target - is not physically possible.

ExtremeShock rounds are just a big pile of marketing BS sold at a premium price. Avoid them.

[XDKingslayer]

They're, in fact, made up of a special compound derived from Chuck Norris' beard hair. The hairs are ground into a special powder and mixed into a paste with Jack Bauer's tears. The paste is then forced into molds of bullets created from the bones of John Wayne. The molds are super heated, then rapidly cooled by the cold stare of Clint Eastwood.

It was on "How it's Made"...

[Dravur]

They are made from compressed kittens. One per round.

[RKBABob]

:DThey're, in fact, made up of a special compound derived from Chuck Norris' beard hair. The hairs are ground into a special powder and mixed into a paste with Jack Bauer's tears. The paste is then forced into molds of bullets created from the bones of John Wayne. The molds are super heated, then rapidly cooled by the cold stare of Clint Eastwood.They should have used THAT in their ad! I'd buy it.

[mightyike]

Thank you to the moderator.

Great reference. What I will never understand is why individuals write such ridiculous responses.

Catchy names sell: Golden Saber Gold Dot, etc. Manufacturers decide on a catchy name as most do.

May we please leave out the eloquence and try to be objective?

Some of the response posts are truly beyond belief.

A surgeon in AZ

[fletcher]

Now I want to buy a pack of them to cut them up and analyze :p

[XDKingslayer]

Don't bother, you'll have to get a 2nd mortgage on your house just to afford a box. It's not cheap getting hairs from Chuck Norris' beard ya know.

[Rampant_Colt]

It's used by these guys:

http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/6968/extremeshokreduxxf4.jpg

Extreme Shock ammo is marketing hyperbole at its finest [or worst], and makes wild claims about their ammo in magazine and website ads suggesting its use by para-military and Special Forces..etc, which is also a bunch of rubbish.

[CWL]

It's used by these guys:

It's the same guy. Even bothered to 'darken' the image on the right in hopes of making it seem like 3 guys. :rolleyes:

[Hawk]

E-Shock rounds are engineered to expend maximum energy into soft targets, turning the density mass into an expanding rotational cone of NyTrilium matrix particles, causing neurological collapse to the central nervous system.

It's been quite a while since high school physics but something doesn't sound right - I don't believe the cone is rotating. Rotational rate translates into tangential velocity when the ninja particles are jettisoned from the ny-trillium mother ship.

If things worked the way their marketing department describes, slings would never have worked as the sling stone would retain rotational momentum after release. Goliath would have stomped David like a bug and the bible would have a different ending.

Beats me what Ny-trillium actually is though. It's a trademark so could be anything they choose it to be. My wild guess would be nylon and lead named by someone with a fascination with Douglas Adam's characters. Well, that would be Ny-Trillian, but close enough I suppose.

[Deacon Blues]

The real question is, what are the exploding pants made of? :D

If it's really just epoxy and lead, I could make them at home. I think I could make them for a lot less too... not that I'd have any use for the finished product.

[rcmodel]

Here is everything you need to know about Exreme Shock ammo:
http://theboxotruth.com/docs/bot23.htm

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j219/rcmodel/KTOG/1224.gif
rcmodel

[CJ]

Don't know how accurate it is, but I dug up:

http://shootingmessengers.blogspot.com/2007/05/boar-hunting-with-extreme-shock-high.html

"The "Nytrilium" that Extreme Shock boasts of, is nothing more than a nylon ball behind the lead projectile."

[geophysicishooter]

Sorry, moderator. The excitement of nytrillium momentarily impaired my better judgement.

[eric.cartman]

They're, in fact, made up of a special compound derived from Chuck Norris' beard hair. The hairs are ground into a special powder and mixed into a paste with Jack Bauer's tears. The paste is then forced into molds of bullets created from the bones of John Wayne. The molds are super heated, then rapidly cooled by the cold stare of Clint Eastwood.

It was on "How it's Made"...

ROTFLMAO

[skinewmexico]

I knew it would be related to Chuck Norris somehow.

[Owen Meany]

Many thanks for all the great responses, both the serious and tongue-in-cheek variety. I appreciate both.

"Density mass" is a made up term, simply a combination of two units of measure. It's like saying "volume length" or "weight distance." It's a complete fabrication meant to sound impressive while conveying no information.

"Expanding rotational cone" is physically impossible. Once the bullet fragments, the laws of physics dictate that its pieces will move in a straight line tangential to their original axis of rotation. In other words, the particles cannot continue to rotate about the bullet's flight axis after the bullet has fragmented. It is not possible in this universe.

Nor are their dual claims of faster energy transfer AND deeper penetration. You cannot have both. A bullet moves at a given speed - if it gives up its kinetic energy faster, it MUST stop sooner - ie, at a more shallow depth in the target. Claiming that your bullet dumps all its energy immediately - but then continues deeper into the target - is not physically possible.

Very succinct. I wonder how Extreme Shock would respond if confronted with these observations.

Though my original query was serious, I enjoy reading things like this almost as much:

They're, in fact, made up of a special compound derived from Chuck Norris' beard hair. The hairs are ground into a special powder and mixed into a paste with Jack Bauer's tears. The paste is then forced into molds of bullets created from the bones of John Wayne. The molds are super heated, then rapidly cooled by the cold stare of Clint Eastwood.

That’s perfectly apt, XDKingslayer. How can Extreme Shock expect to be taken seriously by anybody when, as Conqueror pointed out, they make patently false claims – never mind using bombastic, pretentious language in their descriptions? Purple prose is the last thing I’m interested in when shopping for something to stake my life on.

Rampant Colt said:

...and makes wild claims about their ammo in magazine and website ads suggesting its use by para-military and Special Forces..etc, which is also a bunch of rubbish.

Yes, not only suggesting its use, but outright claiming it! Though I don’t have any evidence to the contrary, I simply cannot believe that any major law enforcement agency or military group would ever entrust themselves to such a product.

There are “Testimonials” on the site that supposedly come from one or more “officers” who now worship at the altar of the Ny-trillium death pill after killing a brontosaurus with a single .22 round or something like that. But where’s the proof? Doesn’t Extreme Shock realize how skeptical people are going to be? Better not to have any testimonials at all.

Thanks to those who posted links to the Box O’ Truth and the Shooting Messenger blog. I will certainly read those articles.

[Conqueror]

^^^That's the thing. People, on the whole, are NOT skeptical. There are a lot of idiots and gullible folks out there. My local gun shop sells this crap by the boxful. In any industry, fancy marketing almost always outdoes good product. If they can get some desk-jockey cop to say it's the greatest thing since sliced bread, or that it made John Browning rise from the dead, people will eat it with a spoon.

[geophysicishooter]

The 'T' is talkin' to me...

[zinj]

Trillium (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trillium) is a type of plant...

[Big Boomer]

can't resist to post again! MUHAHAHAHA


http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l84/forestpriest/EXTREMESHOCK.jpg

[MASTEROFMALICE]

I've said it in the past. Any advertisement depicting either lighting or explosions is selling garbage. These guys have BOTH!

[Soybomb]

Pressed and formed metal powder....sort of like your lunch meat except maybe made with recycled ccw badges :D

[XDKingslayer]

How can Extreme Shock expect to be taken seriously by anybody when, as Conqueror pointed out, they make patently false claims – never mind using bombastic, pretentious language in their descriptions? Purple prose is the last thing I’m interested in when shopping for something to stake my life on.

A lot of people make funny references to ES, but the sad part is that it's not funny. People are buying these rounds based on false pretenses and they are betting their lives on this stuff.

In my opinion, companies that can't back their claims and put people at risk should be shut down. Cut and dry.

The only thing I actually laugh about when it comes to ES is their pricing.

[Double Naught Spy]

I am sorry, but I thought "mass density" was in fact a standard unit of measure for compressed kittens fed on a diet of Chuck Norris' beard hair.

[FieroCDSP]

Did anyone happen to notice the guy in front is packing a shotgun? Do they make eXtreme shock loads for shotguns? The guy on the right looks like he's holding a paintball gun. And then there's Al Gore....:D

[Trempel]

Everyone knows that they're made from unobtanium.

I don't even care if they do perform as advertised. At $2+/round, this stuff is too expensive to seriously test function in any firearm and then rotate every six months or so. I won't spend nearly a grand every year just for carry ammo. Winchester Ranger and Speer Gold Dots work well enough, and are tested enough for me, while much cheaper.

[Sans Authoritas]

Big, that photo was priceless... you went ahead, and "made my day." Very tasteful use of arachnids, I might add.

"Tiny ninjas" and "Chuck Norris' beard hair" were magnificent, as well. I'll stick to the hypeless hollowpoints. I noticed the recent (within 5 or 7 years?) changes in Hydra-Shok bullet, made without much hooplah, and anyone can tell you why the rounds are better now.

-Sans Authoritas

[esol]

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j110/hexidismal29/ninpoammo5bcopy.jpg

photo made and originally posted by: hexidismal

in this thread: http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=299651&page=2&highlight=ninja+maxx

(just want to make sure credit is given where due :) )

[Detritus]

Anyone else received/seen the latest issue of G&A, and noticed that appearently the makers of Extreme Shock got Patrick Sweeny to come to their plant and perform the following services for them.

Test the exact same ammo lines that Box-O-Truth tested, but giving a glowing reveiw.
Give a number of scenarios where the ES ammo is supposedly superior that are not related to stopping power (ie a jacketed lead free frangible is int eh line up)
explain away the fact that Extreme Shock does NOT use industry standard test meadium (ie not tested in Ballistics gellatin), but somehow the tests in the non-standard medium are somehow more valid than if they had been done in Ballistics gel.:banghead:


I'd say more but it would degrade into references to the world's oldest profession.

[Vonderek]

I guess the G&A/Patrick Sweeney article confirmed what we've known all along: the gun rags are shameless shills selling their reputations and souls to any manufacturer waving a fistful of dollars and some free swag.

[Cannonball888]

I'm in Extreme Shock over the price and poor performance.

[buzz_knox]

I seem to remember a post where someone ran an analysis on the Extreme Shock stuff. I believe the lab results revealed that the super hi tech material was in fact: lead.

That was LeMas ammo. After a claim that a "blended metal" round could penetrate obstacles yet somehow "know" when it was in meat in order to explosively expand, Dr. Gary Roberts obtained a round and had it tested. There was nothing at all special about it. You can find the analysis on tacticalforums.com and lightfighter.net.

[XDKingslayer]

What amazes me is that given the "popularity" of ES, there are few reviews of the stuff.

It's like everyone but Patrick Sweeny looks at this stuff and just rolls their eyes.

[Navy joe]

Everyone knows ES=BS. I get more irked by the subtler BS stuff. Like Homeland Defender products. I looked at a box of that, it was Federal ammo with their cheapo hollowpoint selling for premium hollowpoint prices! Homeland defense, it's the new "tactical!"

[Rustynuts]

Wasn't Nytrilium discovered off-world by Stargate SG-1?

[PTK]

Unfortunately, even those in the business buy in to this rubbish - a few folks I know brought G&A in today and were going on and on about how wonderful the ES ammo is. I told them, point blank, they could buy them and waste their money, but I didn't want to pay that much for Glaser slugs or CorBon ammo.

That's really all they're selling at this point, just way jacked up in price!

[Shadow1198]

Extreme Shock Ammo - What are the bullets REALLY made out of?

Hopes and dreams. Lets all donate a penny so these guys can afford more than 5 minutes to create an ad in Microsoft Paint.

Is it just me or do companies like this most likely have to have done absolutely no testing of their ammo whatsoever. How hard is it and how cheap would it be to just do a simple test like the Box 'O Truth one? I mean come on, research and development is there for a reason. This to me shows absolutely no attempt whatsoever to even try to build a product remotely capable of doing anything at all. I'm almost surprised they didn't just buy some JHP's from someone else at a wholesale discount and rebadge them.....oh wait that would take effort. ;)

[Geronimo45]

The soul of Marsellus Wallace.

[WildCard_Rob]

I don't seem to understand what the problem here is?? Outside, of the rather unique marketing Extreme Shock employs, has anyone here EVER shot any of the rounds??

From the responses, I can assume no one has. I carry a .45 Colt 1991A1 Commander loaded with the Extreme Shock .45 AFR (Air Freedom Round). I have nothing but good things to say about the bullets. They are reliable and DO NOT over-penetrate a target. Who cares about ninjas and nytrillium, the ammo works!

Their new website is loaded with info: www.extremeshockusa.net

[boar slayer]

what the stuff is made of it works, we went boar hunting i was using the exploding nija round in 44 mag shot a big boar at 20 yards through the shoulder dropped him one shot buddies was using 308 put one right behind the shoulder the hog is still travling as far as i know other 2 was using barnes x bullets which used 5 shots to drop a smaller hog than mine and winchester 44 mag on the 4th hog 4 shots later after tracking half a day we finally got him.

granted their first marketing sucked but the new stuff looks better and great customer service.

Great product i have actually used it and good company

[Arbor]

^ Not only can the ES people make ninja bullets.. they can make THR accounts :rolleyes:

[mljdeckard]

Jack Bauer doesn't cry.

And no, I am not about to buy 200 rounds of gumdrop bullets to see if they function reliably in my 1911. Pre-fragmented ammo is marginal in theory, and even worse in reality.

[rondog]

Friends don't let friends buy gimmick ninja ammo....

[JImbothefiveth]

we went boar hunting i was using the exploding nija round in 44 mag shot a big boar at 20 yards through the shoulder dropped him one shot buddies was using 308 put one right behind the shoulder the hog is still travling as far as i know That doesn't make sense. Maybe the round failed to work a intended. The FBI reccomends that a self-defense round go through at least 1 foot of ballistics gelatin, and the extreme shock rounds can't even do that.

I carry a .45 Colt 1991A1 Commander loaded with the Extreme Shock .45 AFR (Air Freedom Round). I have nothing but good things to say about the bullets. QUOTE] The problem is that they won't go far enough in a target to be good for self-defense, according to the FBI.


How's this for a good laugh:
you need a round that has the power to perform. Not having the right angle, or being out of position for good shot placement, is not a problem with EXTREME SHOCK.
.
At this point, I'm thinking that might not even get through a deer's ribs, and that there's a reason proffessionals use solids for hunting dangerous game.

Luckily, the EXTREME SHOCK marketig crew saves the day.

Where lead or solid bullets are concerned,
"conventional wisdom" states that retaining mass is a good characteristic. This is true - with "conventional bullets", because conventional bullets rely on hurting a vital organ or blood vessel to get sufficient results. This is not so true with EXTREME SHOCK bullets,...because they rely on energy transfer to get the job done. I understand energy is important. However, how is it supposed to kill if it doesn't hit something important? It would be like running my foot over with a tank, I might lose my foot, it wouldn't kill me unless I died from blood loss.

I believe that the only way EXTREME SHOCK would kill an animal, except a varmint, is by blood loss. A slow death, and you will probably lose it.

[QUOTE]what material they are actually using,Tungsten-NyTrilium™
Notice the Trademark. It is their name for a normal substance, perhaps nylon as someone said.

[Hawk]

Welcome to the forums, Wildcard.

You are evidently safe from complaints that you don't use the search function.

Three posts as of this writing and you've used them to resurrect three long dead ES threads dating from:

Feb 2005 (!)
Feb 2008
Oct 2008

We're glad you like it. We're delighted that you evidently feel it's a solid value. I would however respectfully suggest that you're unlikely to change any minds being a one trick pony on behalf of ES.

Many of us aren't likely to change our tune until and unless Box-O-Truth retests and finds it appreciably changed from its former construction.

Besides, if I'm going to pay a premium for a spiffy box, it's going to have pictures of the Mandrell sisters on it - not mall ninjas.

Relax, pull up a chair and set a spell.

[Hawk]

what the stuff is made of it works, we went boar hunting i was using the exploding ninja round in 44 mag shot a big boar at 20 yards through the shoulder dropped him one shot ...

I believe I recall some testing of that particular round:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_XX2lIT1tQ

Am I the only one that misses Birdman? That guy was a genius.

And welcome to our other new member - have fun and stick around!

[Vonderek]

Maybe Wildcard Rob will convince his company to give every member on THR a case of ES to test for ourselves. I'm sure it will create a new slew of posts of "which ES for Grizzly Bear?"

[qwert65]

I for one think it's awesome there is a bullet called "air freedom" thats bad@$%


They're, in fact, made up of a special compound derived from Chuck Norris' beard hair. The hairs are ground into a special powder and mixed into a paste with Jack Bauer's tears. The paste is then forced into molds of bullets created from the bones of John Wayne. The molds are super heated, then rapidly cooled by the cold stare of Clint Eastwood.

This is NOT TRUE! everyone knows Chuck Norris's beard is so hard only Chuck can shave it......