[boots]

i would like to apply some type of finish to my p220st to keep it from galling and rusting. i do take care of my piece, but it seems to like to rust. my question is: is it possible to achieve high abrasion resistance, and high corrosion resistasnce in a single finish?, or are those two virtues on opposite ends of the spectrum?

[Sean Smith]

You can get close.

Most people with the facts at their disposal consider hard chrome the all-around best finish. Excellent corrosion resistance, a fairly low coefficient of friction and very hard and wear resistant.

With NP3, you are giving up some wear resistance compared to hard chrome in return for even better corrosion resistance and even greater lubricity. The stuff is slick as all get-out.

Roguard is like most other polymer finishes (Black-T, Bearcoat, Gunkote, Armor Tuff, etc.)... it provides very good corrosion resistance and is fairly slick, but the wear resistance flat-out stinks compared to the plated finishes like hard chrome or NP3. The only problem with the plated finishes is that they aren't black, which some people feel they must have on their gun.

[Fed168]

I think you would be pretty good by keeping a nice sheen of oil or lube on the gun. The tolerences on the guns are tight, so we were told at the armorer course, and were told the finishes were pretty resistant. We were also told that changing finishes invalidates the warranty.

Just repeating what I heard, the rust issue hasn't gotten to me yet. Waiting for my turn in line.

[boots]

rust under the hard chrome?, i just heard that it could, and often does happen, but i have no personal experience, so i really don't know. would i have to worry about rusting underneath the hard chrome finish?,,, and who would you recommend to apply the hard chrome?

[ambidextrous1]

NP3 has been very serviceable for me. It's hinted in their literature than you can operate the weapon without lub, but I do not, and I don't recommend that practice; lube won't hurt anything, but it very likely is a good idea.

After five years, no rust, no flaking, no discernible change since it left the shop. What's not to like?
:)

[tomkatz]

For hard chrome these guys are supposed to be pretty tough to beat....
http://www.apwcogan.com/expanded_menu.htm
Yesterday a gunsmith I know told me that sig doesn't recomend hard chroming, especially alloy frames....he said sig DOES recomend robar and any of their finishes, NP3 etc....
I am thinking about refinishing my sig 225, I was leaning toward hard chrome, now I am leaning toward NP3....decisions decisions....tom

[Sean Smith]

with hard chrome, do i have to worry about..
rust under the hard chrome?, i just heard that it could, and often does happen, but i have no personal experience, so i really don't know. would i have to worry about rusting underneath the hard chrome finish?,,, and who would you recommend to apply the hard chrome?

Unless the chrome is improperly applied, or you spend more than 100 hours at a time in a salt spray, no. Whoever said "often" was a schmuck.

Then again, you got a stainless Sig to rust, so forget what I just said. :evil:

Seriously, if you can make a stainless gun that's been hard chromed rust, I'll be impressed... and would try to keep you as far from my guns as possible. :D

[boots]

once i left my sig with a coat of rem-oil for about 4 days in it's case, and when i took it out of the blue box, there were dark spots, and tiny formations of rust. i live in a desert area. i've had problems with rust with my sig and remington870(factory black matte finish NOT parkerization), and i have two glocks,two gp100's and an sks that i've had no problems with. i take care of them accordingly, but all are well kept.

[JohnKSa]

NP3 isn't as HARD as chrome.

In some ways it is actually more durable than chrome.

1. It sticks better. That means it's much less likely to peel/flake than chrome.

2. It's more ductile. That means that a ding that might break the chrome plating resulting in flaking or in corrosion getting under the chrome probably won't harm the NP3.

3. Because it won't flake, even if the NP3 is penetrated by wear or damage, corrosion may occur at the point of the damage, but won't spread underneath the coating.

You might look into electroless nickel. It has most of the good properties of NP3 (it's not as slick) but is much harder. In some cases, a properly applied electroless nickel finish can be harder than chrome.

[incursion]

Hard chrome can rust if it's not lubed, and you live in a high humidity environment. My P7 has black pits underneath the grips and a couple of specs on the cocking serrations, but that's when I used to dip my entire gun in Mpro 7 (a degreaser).

I've heard that the best chromer is Metaloy.

[mec]

robar believes that NP3 is very difficult to wear through and says that the hig points that appear on the finish are generally from polish rather than wearing through. (maybe). Hard chrome, properly applied seems to be a fine finish for high use guns. Londrigan uses them on his ipsc limited guns and is more than pleased with the job Tripp in Ft Worth does on them.

Rogard is a complex polymer with moly. Most companies get it from Tenring Precision. Robar parkerizes the gun prior to application and this is a very effective treatment. The developer of TRgunkote says that it ranks between blueing and e-nickel for durability. It does wear. This can be demonstrated rather quickly by carrying the gun in an Uncle Mikes Kydex holster .
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=410214
TR GunKote

[nvrquit]

... discontinuing their HC service and concentrating on production of the Cobra Mag line, there has been some inquiry on several boards about who to think of as the next "King of Hard Chrome".

It seems that Metalife and Metaloy have been well mentioned as being a can't miss in choice, for having a weapon hard chromed. Hmmm, could be the topic of another poll/post?!?

[RM]

I'd be interested if some shooters would post pictures of their guns finished in NP3 or electroless nickel. Thanks.

[Mastrogiacomo]

I had the slides and barrels of both my Berettas type M done in hard Chrome. They look great. I was considering getting the 220ST and doing it in the same finish but money wise, I'm going to stick with Berettas and Glocks for the time being...:D If I won a 220ST -- I'd go with the Hard Chrome. If the company is good, you won't have any problems and it looks great in addition to protecting the gun. However, if you take care of it and clean after use -- it should be fine as is....but I'd still go with the Chrome finish -- it looks nice and the finish is harder and more durable than N3P.:D :D

[tomkatz]

Mastro....who did the hard chrome on your berettas? Do you have any pictures?

Has anyone had any experience with the metacol finishes from Arizona Response Systems?.........tom

[Mastrogiacomo]

Sorry for the delay in replying. I had Tripp Research do both my guns but I'm pretty sure they've closed up shop to focus on another area. I don't have a digital camera -- yet -- but it's coming in the mail soon. They really came out great, especially the blue compact; it has a nice two tone look. To be completely honest, I didn't notice it as much on the stainless steel, but it was done to protect the gun more than for appearance.

I have a S&W 686 4" that I bought used and I'll be going with Metaloy for the hard chrome. They offer good prices and excellent turn around time and from what I hear, they're a great company. They also reply in a reasonable time frame with their e-mails. I'd recommend you e-mail them. I intend to send them my revolver when I have the cash. I know people talk about the N3P as being better but it's not not as hard or durable as chrome. Nickel is pretty but it's slick when wet, it does chip and peel -- but others may too so most would refinish without charge -- but it discolors over time. I've never heard this about Chrome.

If you want to save on money, I'd suggest just sending them the slide and barrel as those are the most important parts. If you want to do the whole gun, that's great if you have the cash -- otherwise just sending those parts should save you some cash and still provide the protection you want.

[MoNsTeR]

P220ST.... rusting?
Mental note: SIG's stainless sucks :rolleyes:
Might as well have gotten the standard alloy-framed model...

[Mastrogiacomo]

I considered doing the chrome finish on the 220ST when I was thinking of buying it. I didn't have a problem with rust on my Berettas but I felt it'd provide good protection. This is why I'm doing the same for my revolver -- again, no problem yet but it's a nice finish which helps to prevent problems with long term care. Nothing wrong with chroming a 220ST.....:cool:

[farscott]

Personally, I would not hard chrome a revolver, especially a stainless steel revolver. I tried it once as an experiment with an S&W M681-M that had been really abused as a duty weapon. The chrome did not last very long on the cylinder face; it was abraded away during firing. Hard chrome is very hard, but it does not have the adhesion strength of finishes like NP3. For revolvers, I have decided that stainless is the best finish for me.

I like both NP3 and hard chrome, and I choose the finish based on what issue I want to rectify. When corrosion resistance is the big issue and wear is minor (say on a truck gun that sees horrible weather but relatively few rounds), I choose NP3. When wear is an issue and lots of rounds are going to be fired (say a carry pistol that is in and out of holsters and sees a hundred rounds a week), I tend to choose hard chrome.

[boots]

basically from what i heard, it seems like i would prefer np3, but i've seen robar's pricing(np3 $250 complete pistol), and for about half the price, i could get my gun hard chromed at APWCOGAN for about half the price of np3 at robar.

i've finally decided that i will be purchasing a second p220st, so that when my first one rusts through, i will have a suitable replacement.

[SelfProclaimedExpert]

How much rust do you expect on a stainless gun? I know it's possible, but I once left four guns in a foam case that got wet overnight. The blue ones had a little surface rust (wiped off) and the stainless Ruger was completely clean.

This just sounds like bronzing one's gold medal.

[boots]

don't want to make myself out to be a dimwitt... i know that my p220st will not rust through...

[boots]

i got the stainless version simply because of the steel frame. i know for a fact that my steel frame gun has a higher fatigue/stress limit than an aluminum framed p220. "bronzing a gold medal"? not really, looks are a bit important, but for me, it goes: 1. reliability 2. durability 3. everything else. i would not care if my gun were neon green, if the neon green finish was proven to be the most corrosion/abrasion resistant finish available.

btw, i would take that neon green finish, and maybe paint it black. it would retain the corrosion/abrasion resistance, and be less likely to be noticed.

[boots]

an after market metal finish serves to prevent corrosion, and reduce abrasion. i do not really care if it is shiny or not.

[faustulus]

Here is my Sig 226 which I recently had coated with the NP3 finish.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=419121

[Big Mike]

I can't imagine forking out that kind of dough just to turn around and refinish it so it doesn't rust. I think the P220ST is the cats meow, but I would just keep it lubed real good. Mike

[boots]

your np3'd p220 looks like my p220st(except for the fact that mine has rubber grips. looks real nice.

[boots]

hard chromed, soft chromed, gold, platinum, titanium, polymer/teflon/parkerization. whatever is fine. i just want to see.

[faustulus]

The NP3 seems to be a bit softer (satin) than the STs I have seen. So far I like it, but then I have only had it for a couple of weeks. It looked pretty bad when I sent it in (especially the frame). I will say this, the NP3 coating is slick literally.