12 Shots And 1 Reload In 3 Seconds!!!


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BruiseLee
August 2, 2003, 05:10 AM
I was watching the History Channels Tales of the Gun Series the other day, and they happened to have a show about the history of Smith & Wesson. Towards the end of the show, they show a guy trying to break Ed Mc Givern's (wrong spelling, sorry) old speed record.

This guy got off six shots, reloaded, and got off another 6 shots in less than 3 seconds!!!:what:

It looked like he was using a 6" stainless L Frame 6 shot .357.

My question is anyone know what kind of speedloader he was using? I looked at the sequence several times in slow motion, but he was still so fast I couldn't tell.

Also, his reloading technique was unique. It looked like he ejected his brass with guns' muzzle down, but I could see the brass falling downward in a cylinder shaped formation, which puzzles me. I was always taught to eject spent brass downwards, so that unburned power, etc., would not fall between the ejector star and the cylinder, potentialy jamming the gun.

Any one else see this video clip? Or know about the actual event?

Bruise

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Morgan
August 2, 2003, 05:40 AM
I believe it was a 625 of some sort (.45 auto, using moon clips).

Preacherman
August 2, 2003, 08:38 AM
This was Jerry Miculek, who now holds the world record for this and rather a lot of other revolver-related stuff. Also, one of the world's original nice guys...

He used a S&W 625 in .45 ACP with moon clips for this record shoot. His time for the 12 shots (including reload) was just under 3 seconds. He also used a S&W Performance Center Model 627 revolver to fire 8 rounds in .99 of a second!

ACP230
August 2, 2003, 09:47 AM
I used to see Jerry shoot at the late, lamented, Second Chance Bowling Pin match.
I often wished I had a video cam so I could tape him and watch the pins fall over and over and see what he was really doing.

He shot auto pistols one year after Smith dropped the team he was on. During one table he shot so fast he got ahead of the pistol and had a stoppage.

sgt127
August 2, 2003, 12:15 PM
I've watched that over and over. That boys right handy with a revolver ain't he?

critter
August 2, 2003, 06:46 PM
There are and have been some almost unbelievable shooting records. Jerry has a couple of them, Ed McG another. How about (I think his name was) Ed Topperwine. Over 3 days, he shot at 2 1/2" hand thrown wooden blocks with a .22 autoloader (rifle). He was thrown 100,010-------AND MISSED SIX if my memory serves me. Try THAT some time!

hksw
August 2, 2003, 07:10 PM
In The Ruger 10/22 by Wm. E Workman, Mr. Topperwein hit 72,491 blocks - 10 days/1907, longest string 14,450. Tom Fry did the 100,010/miss 6 record - did not mention the number of days it took/1959, longest string 32,860. Chief AJ (John Huffer) attempted to break Fry's records (number of hits, longest string) but did not meet the time restriction. He did do the longest string, 40,060, and new one day record of 8,900 - 1987.

sm
August 2, 2003, 07:41 PM
Respect the revolver.

Any LEO's handy? I know part of the quals used to be shooting from 50 yards. Another qual, and I don't recall the time limit ,but the officer had to shoot 12 which means a reload in a certain time. Didn' they have a time for use of speedloader and non speedloader ?

I've seen quite a few that could/still can shoot 12 from a revo faster than a semi shooter and have better hits. NO spray and pray back then. The semi slows them down.;)

Blueduck
August 3, 2003, 12:40 AM
they have a time for use of speedloader and non speedloader ?

I'm with Missouri Department of Corrections (Parole Officer) and we still use revolvers. During qualifications lots of stages are 12 or 18 rounds so lots of reloading. You can use speed loaders/speedstrips/ or reload by hand (moonclip modified guns specifically prohibited). Same time given no matter what you use, 99.9% of people use speed loaders.

I've been guest at three other agency qualifications 2 Police Departments and one Sheriffs office. Only saw a couple of revolver shooters, same deal there and those guys had to meet the same time standard as officers choosing to carry autos.

I've heard it said several times that revolvers are fine for the street, but very difficult to qualify with on John Woo designed qualification courses. Jerry and Ed excepted of course :D

BruiseLee
August 3, 2003, 07:16 AM
Blueduck, why does your department ban the use of moonclip revolvers? I've always been tempted to get one, now more than ever. The fastest revolver reloads I've ever seen invariably are performed with a S&W M625. I'd love to own a S&W M627, or a M610, too.

At least I think I would! I've shot hundreds of guns, but I've never had a chance to fire a moonclip gun. Why aren't they more popular? Off the top of my head, the moonclip system has some major advantages going for it:

1) Fastest revolver reload. No speedloader knobs to twist. No need for speedloader to fall clear.

2) Fastest, most positive extraction. Brass cant slip back down and wedge between extractor star and cylinder.

3) Moonclips more compact than traditional speedloaders. Especially important for concealed carry.

4) Moonclips have no moving parts, basically almost nothing to go wrong. Much simpler than an HKS or Safariland speedloader.

5) Cheaper than a HKS or Safarilandspeedloader, too!

6) Option of carrying half moonclips or two shot moon clips. Allows reloading a partially empty gun without wasting unfired ammo (assuming you are a cool enough operator to keep track of such things in a shootout, lol).

Can't think of any disadvantages. Rounds would probably jiggle if you just threw a loaded moonclip in your jacket pocket. If you dropped the clip, the rounds might end up all over the floor.

I think the 8 shot M627 .357 could give the M1911 a serious run for the money in terms of firepower given a skilled operator.

Bruise

sm
August 3, 2003, 08:59 AM
Blueduck,
do quals still require shooting from 50 yards?

Oh where is CRSAm when I need him?
Stephen A Camp too.

We had -among others-one retired LA Sheriff SWAT guy from way back when, that could still shoot his 4" model 19 at 50 yds and do the 18 rds quals. IIRC he said they used speedloaders that had to meet a time then still maintain a time without moons, speedloaders, or speedstrips. He could shoot a revo quicker and better than a Glock which at that time he had to transition to , and a 1911. He was really good with a 1911 too.

He changed jobs a few times and carried that 19 as primary, a 1911 as secondary and J frame as BUG. He and his pard were ambushed during some riots, he took two BG's as he fell from GSW to the leg, got the third when he "bounced" off the sidewalk. His pard never got a shot off, and became a statictic. :(

Blueduck
August 3, 2003, 02:03 PM
re1973, we only shoot to 25 yards max. Of the Police shoots I've been at there were one or two stages (don't recall) with shots out to 50 on two of them and the third was just 25 yards and in. One thing I've noted is that none of the agencies I shot with allowed the revolver shooters to cock the gun to singleaction for the longer shots. Seems they just try to make it hard on us ;)

FBI has a "standard" qualification course they use and many agencies copy. I've seen it in print but don't recall exactly what it was. Search might turn it up.

sm
August 3, 2003, 02:12 PM
Blueduck, thanks.
I just can't remember either. I respect what these shooters did/can do with a revolver.
They may tried to make it difficult for you-gotta feeling you earned some respect after the fact.;)

Phil in Seattle
August 3, 2003, 11:45 PM
I used to see Jerry shoot at the late, lamented, Second Chance Bowling Pin match.

Man I really do miss that match!

I went from 89 to 93 or 94, never broke into the top half at any of the front range events.

Was the BBQ sauce that Richard made up not the best sauce ever?!

Blueduck
August 4, 2003, 01:19 AM
Blueduck, why does your department ban the use of moonclip revolvers?

Sorry Bruise I missed your post somehow was not "snubbing" ya, (pun intended ;) )

I'd like to give some really good answer about some clips being unreliable with certain ammo, fear of the clips being bent, easy ammo interchangeability with partner or the policy of keeping guns "stock" except for grips and sights (few 38/357 revolvers come moonclip ready from the factory) but I can't :(

From meeting the head guy in charge of firearms I'm certain somebody asked him about moon clip guns and he didn't know what they were so he immediatly prohibited them. Same guy says L-frames are ok but only the six shot version not the seven, and that aluminum frame revolvers with titanium cylinders are ok, but aluminum framed revolvers with steel cylinders are prohibited:scrutiny:

Guy B. Meredith
August 4, 2003, 03:58 AM
I'm not sure whether local LEO qualifications and the PPC are getting mixed up here. I believe the local qualifications in our area only require 25 yd shoots, but the PPC goes out to 50 yards for most courses. All the restrictions sound like PPC. Do departments put restrictions on as well? If I were doing qualifications for CCW and they told me no moonclips I'd have a real problem. I would definitely be using moonclips, possibly with the new double deck carriers.

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