Bushmaster Magpul Masada "ACR" ???


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LexusNexus
February 8, 2008, 06:48 PM
I haven't heard much about it. It seems to be a good rifle in the making. Is there more info? When is it coming out?

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ckay
February 8, 2008, 07:03 PM
Have fun

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=124&t=310375

Bobarino
February 8, 2008, 08:03 PM
my head hurts after reading that.

Bobby

PercyShelley
February 8, 2008, 08:48 PM
There is a lot more info, but alas, most of it is spread out in a lot of threads at arfcom. Finding it all would take a while.

Fortunately, many THRers went nuts when they saw it a year ago, so they now know enough to talk your ear off.

Basically, it's a modular, multi-caliber capable ar-180 made largely from polymer, but with steel and aluminum inserts where appropriate.

Zak Smith
February 8, 2008, 09:38 PM
Q2, 2008.

MaterDei
February 14, 2008, 12:55 PM
Will it be available on the civilian market right away? Estimated cost?

HorseSoldier
February 14, 2008, 01:04 PM
$1400 is the MSRP, though I imagine they'll run more than that during the initial feeding frenzy.

Wes Janson
February 15, 2008, 12:54 AM
I recall Bushmaster telling me June for LE, fall for civilian...not quite sure how/why that's translated to Q2...

stubbicatt
February 15, 2008, 09:46 AM
I called BM on Wednesday, the representative was very cagey, but said "summer."

andyjason
February 15, 2008, 11:18 AM
does anyone know where they are made??

5x5
February 16, 2008, 05:00 PM
Made by Bushmaster. Civy and LEO during Q2 and military Q3. The $1,400 price was pre Bushmaster so who knows on that.

Bartholomew Roberts
February 16, 2008, 05:06 PM
Based on the SHOT press release, Bushmaster has been talking $1500 as the price point for the 16" fixed stock model.

In other news... How about the .308 Massoud (Magpul Masada in .308)?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNncD9q7u5E

Gaiudo
February 20, 2008, 01:23 AM
The Massoud looks like it could be a tremendous rifle. With the furniture and trigger groups looking like they'll be backwards-compatible with the Masada (ACR), Magpul could really place themselves in a good position with developing a first rate assault rifle AND a full-length rifle system. IF bushmaster keeps up their end of the deal with quality machining.

I guess we'll see this summer how things start to fold out.

Bartholomew Roberts
February 20, 2008, 10:59 AM
Yes, a folding semi-auto .308 with a quick change barrel that gives you both an 18" precision rig or a 12" SBR would be awful handy. You get your choice of a Krinkov sized weapon with full-size 7.62x39 ballistics or the traditional .308.

Gaiudo
February 20, 2008, 03:29 PM
I'm so stoked about this one I'm starting a new thread...

Wanta B
November 22, 2008, 07:14 PM
If Bushmaster keeps that price they can count me in for at least 6 in various cals and configueations!!!
16" folding 5.56x45 in DE with 7.62x39 conv kit and Target/SPR .308 DE or Black...others to follow as they come out but those are at the top of my purchase list.:D

Regards
Want B

franconialocal
November 22, 2008, 08:14 PM
YouTube.com

An episode of future weapons about it. Looks like a GREAT gun.

Just type in "futureweapons ACR" and it should bring it up!!

goldie
November 22, 2008, 10:23 PM
its a race against time on this one,im ready to buy,but it better appear before some bad legislation kills it....

Onmilo
November 22, 2008, 11:28 PM
I wouldn't hold my breath right now.
This one is on the back burner.
Bushmaster and their current owners bought the rights to the gun to keep it off the market.

SpeedAKL
November 23, 2008, 02:13 AM
I'd imagine that they've stalled it recently to see how the situation in Washington plays out, and then make a call on it down the road....

MAKster
November 23, 2008, 10:24 AM
The ACR will go nowhere unless Bushmaster gets a U.S. military contract. If not, it will join the long list of rifles designed to replace the AR that faded away.

gvnwst
November 23, 2008, 04:35 PM
NOt completly sure, but i don't think that the ACR was ever submitted to the goverment.

Crunker1337
November 23, 2008, 04:59 PM
Wanta B:
"Target/SPR .308 DE"

ACR won't be offered in .308. Round's too big. That's why they're making the Massoud.

goldie
November 23, 2008, 06:20 PM
so all that research,developement,testing,& time spent by magpul is all for nothing?just so it could be bought out & shelved? what a waste.:cuss:......

HorseSoldier
November 23, 2008, 07:19 PM
NOt completly sure, but i don't think that the ACR was ever submitted to the goverment.

There's speculation that it's going to be one of the weapons submitted for testing and evaluation once the Colt contract expires on the M4 soon (which does not guarantee that we'll see any M4 replacement, much less any additional juice for the ACR, though).

gvnwst
November 23, 2008, 07:28 PM
That's cool. Be even better if the goverment became smart overnight (like that is going to happen) and started issueing them, if they are as good as they seem....

Wanta B
November 23, 2008, 07:48 PM
Crunker1337,true the .308 is the Massoud but I have been seeing in many other places that when Bushmaster optained the rights to the system they lumped both together.Thus my reference to both being ACRs.

Wanta B

goldie
November 23, 2008, 09:37 PM
This is the latest i saw on the bushmaster website; 2009 ACR Availability

(The ACR is being redesigned to be a superior offering to compete for the next generation US Army infantry carbine and subcompact weapon requirement and will be available to select customers in 2009)......so does this mean we can forget about the civilian version ?Talk about getting the rug pulled out from under you.:fire:

Coronach
November 23, 2008, 10:22 PM
No clue.

Bushmaster has futzed around now for, what, a year? They're dumping a whole lot of time, energy and money into a rifle that might:

1. arrive too late for civilian sales (assuming the Dems try an AWB and it is successsful)

and

2. Might not get picked over established offerings from FN and others.

This seems like a really stupid idea, but what do I know? I'm just the guy that wants to pay them ~$1,500 for something they refuse to produce in a timely manner.

Mike

Wanta B
November 24, 2008, 12:26 PM
I wounder if that is true that Bushmaster only bought the rights to keep it off the market.:scrutiny:Should that prove to be the case I will never buy another Bushmaster product again.:fire:I have three as it is and have been very pleased with them so when I heard that they were going to be making the Masada I was quite eager to get several should the first one prove it's self...but STILL waiting with no real word from Bushmaster!:rolleyes:

Wanta B

ny32182
November 24, 2008, 01:48 PM
I have seen quotes from the Magpul/Bushy rep/whoever he is on arfcom stating basically what it stated above; it is "being redesigned to compete in an M4 replacement trial"...

I'm no industry expert, but that doesn't make much sense to me.

-They were already using straight up AR15 triggers, barrels/barrel extensions... the most major stuff was already designed, long ago. The R&D and testing on this thing, seems to me like it shouldn't require as much as an all new design. Moreover, the ACR met the full SCAR-spec functional list as is; so I'd be real curious to see what exactly they are "re-designing" to compete in a govt carbine trial.

-If Bushmaster things they are truly compteting with FN for a rifle contract, regardless of the actual merits or lack thereof of their design, I think they are deluding themselves. I can't see the government buying a large scale anything from Bushmaster.

I don't know whey they are dragging their feet, but govt sales doesn't sound like a valid reason to me. My money is on them simply not tooling up as quickly/smoothly as they anticipated.

Kino74
November 24, 2008, 02:16 PM
I sure hope they get this rifle put into production soon and without any bugs. They certainly have had enough time. Yes Im getting impatient.

I surely hope also that the gun comes in the $1200-1400 range and not the $2700 SCAR pricing. This is starting to get ridiculous with the rising price tag BEFORE Obama buying mania kicked in full swing.

Coronach
November 24, 2008, 03:29 PM
I don't know whey they are dragging their feet, but govt sales doesn't sound like a valid reason to me. My money is on them simply not tooling up as quickly/smoothly as they anticipated.That, or they have uncovered a design glitch, and are trying to correct it.

I don't buy the whole "bought it to keep it off of the market" thing. One of the following two is true:

1. The ACR will have no appreciable effect on AR sales (like the XCR), which means they spent a whole lot of money on nothing.

2. The ACR will be a major changing force in the EBR marketplace, which means they are in a position to be the only one selling the new sweetness, but instead they have paid a princely sum to go on being one of many AR producers.

Either one is a dumb idea.

One can make an argument about them holding off to see what happened with the election and the beginning of the new presidency, but they would have been faaaaar smarter to get everything going as fast as possible. Can you IMAGINE how much money they'd be making right now if they had palletfulls of ACRs ready for sale?

Assuming ARs and ACRs have the similar production costs, they'd pay off their tooling/setup costs pretty quickly, since they're selling ARs at ~$1k, and could be selling ACRs at ~$2k.

Mike

trbon8r
November 24, 2008, 03:35 PM
Who knows what Bushmaster is up to, but they are on crack if they think a military contract is coming anytime soon..........unless of course Cerebrus did some serious palm greasing.

Right now our government has this minor problem of being flat broke. With a 10 trillion national debt (and that's only the part they tell us about) buying a new rifle that is at best a marginal improvement over what we use now is going to be way down the list of priorities. They have other things to spend absurd amounts of money on like socializing our financial system and what's left of our auto industry. :rolleyes:

When you factor in an Obakarama presidency and a Democrat Congress, you can expect some defense budget cuts coming in '09 as well.

goldie
November 24, 2008, 03:48 PM
this replace the m16 game has been going on for years,it will drag on for many more.in the end they will probably wind up with a piston driven m16 if they are lucky.with all the red tape & political nonsense,bushmaster was better off going right to civilain sales,it would have paid off instantly,not to mention all the factory changable barrels,configurations,& accessories.it could have been the next ruger 10/22 accessory wise.i wonder if people from gm are running bushmaster,too?:confused:

ny32182
November 24, 2008, 03:55 PM
I agree that them buying it to keep it off the market is nonsense as well. AR sales are so vast that no new low volume wonder-gun is going to put a dent in it. Its like worrying that the M&P is going to hurt 1911 sales.

If they were making them now, they could be selling as many as they could turn out at any price they wanted... no company is going to deliberately shelve a product like that.

Wanta B
November 25, 2008, 12:19 PM
Well I agree that in all likelyhood Bushmaster did not buy the rights just to shelve it but things of that nature have happened in the past more times than one might think.

As far as sales of guns go I have several AR types and have NO interest in getting any more.Even with Obama in office.I am looking for the NEXT system to try out.FN SCAR is WAY over priced depending on how you look at it and quite frankly I MUCH prefer the layout of the Masada.However I find myself looking to the Robinson XCR because at least it is here now and being sold!

So,if there are any Bushy reps watching that care to know,I for one am getting ready to spend my $$ else where! Hey guys I realy want SEVERAL Masadas...but I will get what I can WHILE I can.:banghead:

Wanta B

Bobarino
November 25, 2008, 06:13 PM
i think they would be wise to produce some ACR's and get them into the hands of the public to see if any bugs reveal themselves BEFORE entering the gun into a .mil contract race. they would be getting paid to have their product tested. they could fine tune the tooling processes so that if they actually do get the contract, they could start selling the military right away.

the way major corporations operate these days makes government seem like a well oiled machine sometimes.

Bobby

HorseSoldier
November 25, 2008, 08:04 PM
i think they would be wise to produce some ACR's and get them into the hands of the public to see if any bugs reveal themselves BEFORE entering the gun into a .mil contract race. they would be getting paid to have their product tested. they could fine tune the tooling processes so that if they actually do get the contract, they could start selling the military right away.

I don't know. If you just put them on the civilian market, you get less meaningful feedback per gun, and the feedback you get may not have much to do with military requirements (since most guys who buy them aren't going to do intensive training for three gun competition or take tactical carbine courses with them -- and even the guys who do aren't going to be pouring sand into the actions, dunking their guns in mud puddles, and otherwise testing them to destruction), but do run the risk of the public getting wind of any problems or glitches the design may have in its pre-production form. Even if you then wheel out a 100% solution to the problem, you'll have people recycling the "my ACR sucks" stories on the internet for eternity, complete with photos and whatever else.

humandesign
February 12, 2009, 04:00 PM
i'm new to this post, how's it going all?
i've been following the masada/ACR for awhile too, but has it occurred to anyone else that maybe, just maybe, they entice us all with these new exciting rifles only to delay them so that we would just give up, frustrated, and run out to spend all our money on the boatloads of stock pile hardware no one wants but they want to get rid of?

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