Laser sights - Crimson Trace


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norwegianoperator
February 9, 2008, 04:34 PM
Hi

Do any of you guys have any experience with the crimson trace grips/laser sights or the sights from Lasermax? do they make you hit the middle of the target? :what:


Martin

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340PD
February 9, 2008, 06:33 PM
I have Crimson Trace products on three snubbies. It takes some practice to forget the gunsights and rely on the laser. My hit ratio went way up. As a added bonus, the laser sights do not depend on which angle the gun is held at. Bad guys do not like red dots on them. Get the size that fits your needs.
I use the LG 305 and 405. Try both out.

norwegianoperator
February 9, 2008, 06:54 PM
Thanks... well, i just have to check if its legal here first...cause i really want a laser on my gun

norwegianoperator
February 9, 2008, 06:58 PM
Thanks... well, i just have to check if its legal here first...cause i really want a laser on my gun

norwegianoperator
February 9, 2008, 06:59 PM
Thanks... well, i just have to check if its legal here first...cause i really want a laser on my gun:uhoh:

norwegianoperator
February 9, 2008, 07:01 PM
Thanks... well, i just have to check if its legal here first...cause i really want a laser on my gun:uhoh:

jaydubya
February 9, 2008, 07:07 PM
I have Crimson Traces on my "classic" Browning Hi Power, my S&W 637 snubby and 686+. Needless to say, I hate them. You asked, "do they make you hit the middle of the target?" Gracious no! I can still pull my shots left whenever I feel like it. But it is deeply satisfying to see a hole appear in the target right where the red dot is. I practice weekly with the Hi Power and one of the revolvers, fifty rounds each, half with iron sights and half with the lasers. I replace the batteries every six months, just to be safe.
Cordially, Jack

norwegianoperator
February 9, 2008, 07:16 PM
Thanks... will you guys recomend Crimson Trace or other manufacturers?

hit or miss
February 9, 2008, 07:23 PM
I put a set on my wife's model 15 for her. She can stack bullets one on top of the other in the target, double action. The only complaint I can make against them is now the grip is too large for her small hands and she refuses to give them up! It really makes the gun uncomfortable for her. One other problem is she thinks the red dot will make scumbags scared so she doesn't have to shoot.

You still have to practice good shooting form and trigger control though.

tiko_joe
February 9, 2008, 11:20 PM
personally i feel that lasers are more of training aid, and damn near black out situations. there great for the quick shot, i have a set of crimson trace on a taurus 1911 and for all intended purposes i like them, when you dont have time or in an awkard self defense type posotion. i've seen alot of people actually get worse from laser because they focus on timing the laser with their natural movement, creating a snap or other fundamental flaw. i would recommend crimson trace over laser max or other guide rod style laser, a flashing light in a high pressure moment is lust another thing to distract your mind.

3rdpig
February 10, 2008, 01:08 AM
Got CT grips on my S&W J frame, my Glock 26 and my Glock 29. I love them and recommend them highly.

Like others I thought lasers were only useful as a training aid, and that's why I got my first set for the J frame, to help my SO with her shooting, but after using them myself, and being in an encounter with them on my G29, I wouldn't have a carry gun without a pair. Once you start realizing the added capabilities they bring to the table you'll want them on your carry guns too.

And this from a guy who swore as little as 5 years ago that he'd never own a laser sight or a plastic framed pistol.

blutarsky
February 10, 2008, 01:59 AM
speaking of crimson trace.

i've read of a couple ways to use these. one is to sight them in at a given range, perhaps 15 yds (heck if i know that's close, maybe it's 25yds?). ANYWAY, sight them in so the dot is where the bullet goes at given range. problem is that as the range increases or decreases, the point of impact changes drastically and intriduces quite a bit of guess-work.

the other way i've read is that you sight it in where the laser is exactly parallel to the bullet's path -- so that at any given range the off-set is exactly the same. at 10 ft you know the dot is 1.5 inches low and to the right of where the bullet will hit. and likewise at 50 yds the dot is the same 1.5 inches low and right. the benefit being that at any reasonable range you can mentally adjust the point of aim to the point of impact... but the dot would never ever mark the spot.

for me, it seems the second way makes the most sense. if i know that at any range where i aim will be slightly low and to the right from point of impact, i'd feel a whole lot more comfortable that knowing that i'm sighted in dead-center for 15yrds and knowing that anything less than or greater than that range would necessarily be "off".

so... what's the best plan?

crankshop1000
February 10, 2008, 09:49 AM
That subject is discussed in the instructions that come with the laser.You adjust the laser to be dead on at 50'. You will be the distance of the laser sight axis to the bore axis high at point blank and the same distance low at 100'. No big deal when you are dealing with a handgun.

elderboy02
February 10, 2008, 11:57 PM
I have Crimson Trace Lasergrips on my G23 and I love them.

LegalAlien
February 11, 2008, 11:02 PM
Thanks... will you guys recomend Crimson Trace or other manufacturers?

+1 on Crimson Trace. The biggest advantage of the grip type lasers are that they are integrated into the firearm and not a rail attachment. That means that any regular holster for your firearm will continue to fit your gun.

As for accuracy . . . I have a Crimson Trace on my Beretta 92FS and here is the proof:-

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/4333/imgp0001ra5.th.jpg (http://img99.imageshack.us/my.php?image=imgp0001ra5.jpg)

As for the comments about it being a 'training tool' only, I have to respectfully disagree. As you get older, your eyesight deteriorates, your focal length changes and it becomes almost impossible to focus on three levels - (back sight; front sight; target) - the red dot puts your focus right on the target - period. Yes, it is still a good training aid as well, as it will show up the slightest movement in your gun during the aiming and firing process.

Arcticfox
February 12, 2008, 01:12 AM
I have Crimson and love it! Its a hit at the range! The laser shining thru the smoke makes me feel like I'm in a Terminator movie, lol!

Kind of Blued
February 12, 2008, 03:50 AM
I am 100% behind them. As controversial as they are, I don't think I've ever heard a logical argument against them.

If you think about it, its basically like having a sight radius equal to however far away your target is.

1 old 0311
February 12, 2008, 12:30 PM
Two points:
I have CT's on two of my pistols, and love them. Been using them for 8-10 years with NO problems.
I also have a friend who is a LEO firearms instructor for a big (1,000,000+ population city.) He said they don't use them because of the rough, bump, bang, life use LEO pistols get. It CAN throw your aim off if banged enough, and not checked from time to time.

M2 Carbine
February 12, 2008, 01:39 PM
norwegianoperator
Hi
Do any of you guys have any experience with the crimson trace grips/laser sights or the sights from Lasermax? do they make you hit the middle of the target?


I know some THR members are probably getting sick of seeing these targets. I have to take some new ones.:)

Anyhow I'm a big CT laser fan. I've got them on five handguns.
I practice several evenings a week with lasers and lights.


The bullet will hit the laser dot only at the distance that you have zeroed it in for.
But within "normal" pistol range the bullet will hit within a couple inches of the dot.
For instance I sight in all my lasers at 25 yards. So from close to the target, back to 40-50 yards the bullets will hit within COM.

The evening I shot these targets, by the time I shot the 40 yard target it was so dark all I could see was a gray blur. As you can see, if you identify the target at all, the laser will help you hit it.
(but you must learn how to properly use the laser)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/Bell406_206B/CT7to40yards.jpg

The Annoyed Man
February 12, 2008, 05:09 PM
I just bought my wife a S&W 642 with CT grips for Valentines day. I'm already jealous.

Lonestar49
February 13, 2008, 02:24 AM
Quote: Do any of you guys have any experience with the crimson trace grips/laser sights or the sights from Lasermax? do they make you hit the middle of the target?
-------------
...

I highly recommend the Crimson Trace Laser Grips over the rail mounted laser max, as I have both.

The problem with the rail mounted Laser Max IMO:

The lens gets covered easily with powder residue, not that it will black it out, but it's there. Can be cleaned off.

Requires that you extend one finger on one hand to turn it on, and extend one finger of the other hand to turn it off.. Time consuming, can play a little havoc on one's proper 2-hand grip, and worse, long-times On means that you're offering a light-trial for the BG to see back to you.

Last, with mine, and many others that I have read about, there seems to be a flaw in the On-Off switch that is effected by "recoil-shock" which makes the light go real dim and the only way to get it back to bright is to turn it off and and back on.. Sometimes I can shoot my Px4 with it and go 100 rounds no problems, and other times, it goes dim in less that 10 shots..

But when they are working, they are very very accurate, up close, out to 63ft, max distance at my indoor range.

And, not many holsters out there (that I like) that will take both the gun and the rail-mounted laser.

Whereas:

With Crimson Trace Laser Grips, the lens never receives any gun smoke, nor is effected by recoil. Best part is while having a proper 2-hand grip, all it takes is just a tad of finger pressure to hold the light on, and the moment you relax the pressure, the light is off.. Otherwise, lase and blaze, without the worry of sacrificing your grip, along with not leaving a long light trail for the BG to follow back to you..

With the CT Laser Grips your gun will fit in all holsters out there, so your choice of what holster, make and model, is not limited, rather, wide open field for ya.

Crimson Trace Laser Grips are very very very accurate, up close and out to 63ft (max distance at my range) with both eyes open, which makes for great SA while pointing, lasing, and taking the shot/s.

CT Laser grips all the way.. IMO



Ls

Dollar An Hour
February 13, 2008, 09:37 AM
Well, I've resisted laser sights long enough, and I'm just gonna have to get a set on a J-Frame. I think it'll really improve the hit percentage with a snubby.

M2 Carbine
February 13, 2008, 10:03 AM
Dollar An Hour
I'm just gonna have to get a set on a J-Frame. I think it'll really improve the hit percentage with a snubby.

With out a doubt. Plus your speed will probably increase.

Shooting the S&W J frame in low light and dark is my favorite practice.:)

10 yards. Weak (left) hand. Dark.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/Bell406_206B/LaserJFrameLefthand10yards.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/Bell406_206B/5yardsfastfirelaser1.jpg

J Frame. 25 yards. Fast firing as fast as I could reload. I missed twice.
It was dark but just light enough to see the target as a gray blur.
I had to shine a Streamlight TLR-2 on the target to take the picture.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/Bell406_206B/LaserdarkJFrame.jpg


Lonestar49 :
The lens gets covered easily with powder residue, not that it will black it out, but it's there. Can be cleaned off.


This is also true with the CT on the 2 inch barrel wheel guns, especially if you are shooting lead bullet reloads.

CPshooter
February 16, 2008, 05:00 AM
What do you people do during the day when it's bright outside and a laser is literally impossible to see in the sunlight? I can see it to an extent, maybe a "just incase" kind of thing for your wife or girlfriend or something, but I'd rather invest in some good 'ole night sights.

tblt
February 16, 2008, 08:38 AM
with a lazer you can see how hard it is to hold on a target and you can practic at home with no ammo pulling the trigger and you will get much better

Bo
February 16, 2008, 01:53 PM
I have a Laser-Max on my SA XD45, it replaces the guide rod so there is no sighting in the laser. I think it is dead-on. You hit exactly where the red dot is. Trick is, to keep the red dot still. It really shows you how much your hand is moving around. Laser-Max is excellent quality well made and improves my groups.

possum
February 16, 2008, 02:58 PM
the thing that is great about the laser max and the crimson trace is that you don't have to get any new holsters. the devices mentioned don't add any size to the outside dimensions of the pistol.

laser devices are great, i use them for dry fire practice, and equie guns with them for my wife when i am deoyed or otherwise gone so that she will be able to make accuarte shots while holding one of our kids, the phone, from in the bed etc.

i prefer the crimson trace grips they are adjustable and user friendy just put them on a battery in em and go to town.

the laser max's are nice, i like how the laser pulsates, that makes it easy to ick up in any light and allows you to track it easily.

i have used both one several guns, and i prefer the ct grips, as long as they don't add to much size to the grips as i have small hands.

i have never had an issue or a negative coment to make about the ct grips. the only thing with the laser max that i have seen is that in my dad's glock 19 and with his reloads, of the loads weren't able to cycle the slide competely, which was easily fixed, but that is the one and only issue that i have seen with them, but with factory ammo they were good to go.

rc109a
February 16, 2008, 07:09 PM
I love them. The gun they are on is my wife's j frame 38 special. The only time she would really use that gun is low light or night time. The rest of the time she would just use the 1911 or the USP-40. As far as using it in the daylight, at close range with a 2" barrel it is a point and shoot gun anyway (using the sights). You should not train with only one or the other, but use both. If they cannot see the sights, then use the laser. If they can see the sights, then use them. I know it has built up her confidence in shooting and enjoyment. She really loves to go to the range with me more and likes to double check the "accuracy" of her laser every chance she can get! Best of all it is just plain fun!!!!

TTR
February 18, 2008, 07:05 PM
I have the CT laser grips on my Beretta 92FS. The CT lasers are bad to the bone. At 50' I can put 15 rounds in a 4" to 5" grouping. All of 15 rounds firing pretty quick.

When the red dot is on the bulls eye fire the weapon. Don't hesitate or that red dot goes all over the place :)

My wife has a set on her Taurus ultralight 38 special pistol.

I'm getting a set for my Tomcat. :)

jaydubya
February 18, 2008, 09:27 PM
Someone above asked, What do you people do during the day when it's bright outside and a laser is literally impossible to see in the sunlight?

As I had said before he asked that question, I practice fifty percent iron sights and fifty percent lasers at the range. And both ways benefit from doing it.

Stick your toe in the water, fella -- try one. And once you get past how shockingly unsteady you are, flinging that red dot all over the place, you will benefit from buying one.

Cordially, Jack

M2 Carbine
February 20, 2008, 10:42 AM
Someone above asked, What do you people do during the day when it's bright outside and a laser is literally impossible to see in the sunlight?


Me, I just use the iron sights.

The laser is for use in low light and darkness.
Iron sights are for daylight.
They are two different tools that you should learn to use equally well.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/Bell406_206B/KimberCovertlaser.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/Bell406_206B/Kimberironsights.jpg

viperstarbuck
February 2, 2009, 08:03 PM
I have Crimson Trace on my G27 to compliment the night sights on it, and i love it!

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