Thoughts on the HK416?


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Nomad101bc
February 9, 2008, 08:05 PM
It sounds like an excellent improvement to the M4. Its even made of solid steel not the plastic squirt gun appearance of the Masada or the SCAR. Anyone have thoughts on this guns potentail to replace the M4 or any hopes they release a civilian version?

Heres someones review http://www.military.com/soldiertech/0,14632,Soldiertech_HK416,,00.html

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TexasRifleman
February 9, 2008, 08:14 PM
My very very favorite :)

http://larrycorreia.wordpress.com/2007/10/09/hk-because-you-suck-and-we-hate-you/

On the 416 specifically:

The 416 is basically an AR with a gas piston, which has been done by like ten companies now, but somehow the HK is better, because it was on Future Weapons, and HK won’t sell it to civilians. In fact, a couple of 416s slipped out into civilian hands, and HK freaked out about it. There is no legal reason that 416 uppers can’t be sold, but HK despises regular people, and the idea of you having their long guns offends them.

Have to say I find nothing to disagree with in Correia's posts on this subject.

I know you intend a serious discussion, but when you ask about civilian availability it pretty much goes back to Humor mode.
That just seems like a virtual impossibility given HKs history on this stuff.

Number 6
February 9, 2008, 08:32 PM
For most users it is not really an improvement over the DI system, and is probably no better than other AR piston offerings. Reports from people who actually use them indicate that their accuracy is not nearly as good as a DI design. The utility of the 416 is when using very short barrels and suppressors. How good is it compared to other piston designs? No one really knows since HK will not sell it to civilians, so evaluation is difficult. A lot of people give it praise only because it is from HK, which is why you get so many people rolling their eyes at it.

BTW, the SCAR and Masada are both metal, aluminum I think, and are covered in polymer.

Gunnerpalace
February 9, 2008, 08:36 PM
I wonder what the rifle will be like.


(I seriously hope I wont get in trouble for saying that)

Nomad101bc
February 9, 2008, 08:49 PM
Masada still has several issues that need to be resolved. The thought of easily configuring a masada to handle AK ammo does sound enticing but as we know the civilian version will likely have this disabled. One nice thing is paint sticks to polymer quiet nicely thus giving it a matte black or subdued urba color scheme would be pretty cool.

Wes Janson
February 9, 2008, 11:42 PM
Why on earth would the civilian A.C.R. not be convertible to 7.62x39?

Everyone and their brother needs to get over the whole gas piston fanatacism thing. Yeah, they run cleaner. No, they tend not to be quite as accurate perhaps. They are not the be-all, end-all of the AR-15 world.

Number 6
February 10, 2008, 01:42 AM
Masada still has several issues that need to be resolved.

The rifle has not been released yet, so what issues are you referring to?

Like Wes has said, why would the ACR not be readily convertable?

plexreticle
February 10, 2008, 02:26 AM
What with all the stupid rails on these guns?

12131
February 10, 2008, 02:52 AM
What with all the stupid rails on these guns?
And why are they stupid? Enlighten us, please.

brentn
February 10, 2008, 02:57 AM
I was always told that the bullet leaves the barrel before the piston starts to move, in which accuracy should not be an issue for single presice shots.
I'll have to say however that the AR's direct gas system is simpler in design than a piston system, has less parts, and IMO is just as reliable.

Theres a guy on another forum that I frequent who has cleaned his original colt AR only once a year with many rounds down the pipe and has had virtually no issues. All he does is just lube it.

Number 6
February 10, 2008, 03:42 AM
I was always told that the bullet leaves the barrel before the piston starts to move, in which accuracy should not be an issue for single presice shots.

I would be surprised if this were true. The piston should start to move a bit before the round leaves the barrel. If this is the cause of the loss of accuracy of the 416 is unknown. Some have stated they are getting around 4 MOA out of the 416. Is that bad? Not for a military rifle, but it is hardly up to the claims that many internet commandos make about the 416.

I would be really curious to see how 416 fares up against the piston designs by Colt, POF, LMT, Safety Systems Corp, Ares, and LWRC.

Matt-J2
February 10, 2008, 04:52 AM
And why are they stupid? Enlighten us, please.

Well, they don't do very well with standardized testing, and quite frankly, their knowledge of 18th century British literature is, to put it mildly, appalling.

RLsnow
February 10, 2008, 04:55 AM
hmm, norway is getting it to replace the AG3

Nomad101bc
February 10, 2008, 09:42 AM
Hmmm seems we will be using the M-16 platform for quiet awhile. I think we need to work on a larger caliber rifle for the squads "designated Marksman."

Don't Tread On Me
February 10, 2008, 09:50 AM
This subject has been beaten to death. Even the military experimented with piston uppers for the M16 over 30 years ago. Colt designed and offered them a piston set up. They said it offered no practical improvement over the current system. Just like how the HK416 offers no practical improvement.

This issue has nothing to do with firearm design, and everything to do with politics. If they can lobby and win a contract - good for them. They'll succeed where many others have failed.

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