Are bullets with a canalure less accurate?


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kgpcr
February 9, 2008, 10:11 PM
I just bought 250 Nosler Ballistic Tip .224 60grn bullets and see they have a canalure. The Hornady V-Max does not. All else being equal is a non canalure bullet more accurate?? I am really interested in your thoughts. I have been loading for many years and all my bullets had a canalure. Accuracy was great for what i used them for. Now i have a 22-250 tack driver on the way and i want to get the most out of it.

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ranger335v
February 9, 2008, 10:16 PM
It seems intuitive that forming a canalure is likely to affect the consistancy of the jacket enough to impair accuracy, but it's not likely to be much. No match bullet, that I know of, wears a canalure.

taliv
February 9, 2008, 10:17 PM
not sure, but canalures are for crimps and crimps are generally less accurate. no compelling reason for crimping a bolt gun

dakotasin
February 9, 2008, 10:50 PM
no. don't worry about it - a bench gun might note it, but bench guns don't generally shoot v-max's and bt's.

and you don't have to crimp a cannelure.

TexasRifleman
February 9, 2008, 10:59 PM
Bullets with a cannelure are not less accurate inherently, but crimping is.

45crittergitter
February 10, 2008, 03:57 PM
no compelling reason for crimping a bolt gun

Tell that to the cartridges in the magazine whose bullets get shoved down into the case during recoil.

USSR
February 10, 2008, 04:24 PM
Tell that to the cartridges in the magazine whose bullets get shoved down into the case during recoil.

With small bore and medium bore nonmagnum rifles, that will only happen if you have insufficent neck tension. Use of bushing dies allow you to control neck tension, and neck tension is preferable to crimping from an accuracy viewpoint.

Don

Swampy
February 11, 2008, 08:21 AM
Are bullets with a canalure less accurate?

I'll ask the diametrically opposed question.....

Why don't match grade bullets have a cannelure???..... and, why don't shooters in the pure accuracy games crimp their bullets???

Kinda' answers itself now..... ;)

Best regards,
Swampy

W.E.G.
February 11, 2008, 09:45 AM
Pulled surplus bullets with a cannelure may be questionable.

Top-end hunting bullets from a major manufacturer will show zero degradation in accuracy as a consequence of the cannelure.

W.E.G.
February 11, 2008, 10:02 AM
I'll ask the diametrically opposed question.....

Why don't match grade bullets have a cannelure???..... and, why don't shooters in the pure accuracy games crimp their bullets???

Kinda' answers itself now.....

Actually, you should not rush to a conclusion on this.

Further, it depends on what you call a "crimp."

Heavily mashing the mouth of the case into the side of the bullet is one type of crimp.

Other times, a mild crimp is used on bullets that have no cannelure, and accuracy results are markedly improved. It depends on the load, and it depends on the rifle.

The purpose of the cannelure is generally to create a "soft spot" on the bullet for applying a heavy crimp, and in the case of military ammo, to provide a rough spot to hold case neck sealer.

Creating that soft-spot, or an indentation does not necessarily have any effect on the inherent accuracy of the projectile. This is especially true when the cannelure is produced by the original manufacturer.

Since match-rifle shooters may not be constrained by magazine-length for seating depth of the bullets, there is no point in the manufacturer putting a crimp on bullets to be sold to match-rifle shooters. How could the manufacturer possibly know where to place the cannelure, or whether a cannelure is even desired by the buyer?

This doesn't mean the absence of a cannelure makes the bullet any more accurate than a bullet, produced by the same manufacturer, that does have a cannelure.

In my experience, the presence of a cannelure on a first-quality bullet from a major manufacturer has a neutral effect on the accuracy of the bullet.

I shot a bunch of Remington 150-grain bullets with cannelure from my M1A in highpower rifle competition. I couldn't tell the difference at 100 yards between those bullets and the Sierra 168-grain MatchKing bullets. I did not crimp the Remington bullets. Hardly a "scientific" test... but still an anecdote worthy of note.

strat81
February 11, 2008, 10:28 AM
No match bullet, that I know of, wears a canalure.
Why don't match grade bullets have a cannelure???

Sierra makes a 77gr .224 Match King with a cannelure that's used for Mk262 ammo. Nosler was involved with the first batch of that ammo (and may still make it) but I don't know if their cannelured bullet is sold to the public. Sierra's is.

alsaqr
February 11, 2008, 11:32 AM
The most accurate .30 caliber bullet that I shoot is the Hornady 150 grain round nose. Yes, round nose. This bullet has a cannelure. Out of my .308 and .30-06 guns this bullet makes very small groups. When loaded with the Hornady 150 grain round nose bullet, my favorite Remington 700 in .308 routinely makes five shot groups at 100 yards that can be covered with a penny.

In my guns this bullet shoots better out to 200 yards than any match bullet that I have ever loaded.

USSR
February 11, 2008, 11:54 AM
I'll ask the diametrically opposed question.....

Why don't match grade bullets have a cannelure???..... and, why don't shooters in the pure accuracy games crimp their bullets???


There you go again, Swampy, being logical again.;)

Don

P.S. - for any crimp to be effective, the bullet must be deformed, if ever so lightly.

RockyMtnTactical
February 11, 2008, 12:56 PM
Technically, yes they are less acurrate, but not by a huge margin. However, they are more reliable (especially in a semi) and in many cases it makes FMJ bullets fragment easier.

Walkalong
February 11, 2008, 01:25 PM
Less accurate than what, a custom benchrest bullet? Sure, less accurate, but plenty accurate enough for the intended job.

Swampy
February 11, 2008, 01:48 PM
Actually, you should not rush to a conclusion on this.

Actually, it is a conclusion, and a pretty well established one. Regardless of individual anecdotes, hunting bullet vs. target bullet, etc.... if there were any very tiny, remote, miniscule possibility that either crimping or canneluring a bullet in some way enhanced accuracy..... then you would see it as a common and prevelent technique for loading ammo within the purely accuracy oriented shooting sports such as BR, F-Class, Palma.....

...... you don't.

There is a reason you don't........ and that reason is that canneluring and-or crimping is detrimental in the overall picture of the acheievement of pure accuracy.

There you go again, Swampy, being logical again.

It's a gift.....

Best,
Swampy

Garands forever

HorseSoldier
February 11, 2008, 04:23 PM
Sierra makes a 77gr .224 Match King with a cannelure that's used for Mk262 ammo. Nosler was involved with the first batch of that ammo (and may still make it) but I don't know if their cannelured bullet is sold to the public. Sierra's is.

Mk 262 Mod 0 did not have a cannelure, the Mod 1 revision added it to the spec. The issue was, if I'm not mistaken, getting the ammo to be a bit more rugged for military field use.

Having shot some 262/0 and a lot of 262/1, I can't tell much difference, if any, in accuracy between the two.

Markbo
February 11, 2008, 04:39 PM
I try not to get into debates that can't be settled so I listen to the source.
I let my guns tell me which bullets they like best.

res45
February 11, 2008, 09:29 PM
I try not to get into debates that can't be settled so I listen to the source.
I let my guns tell me which bullets they like best.

DISCLAIMER:YOUR accuracy may very
Me either but I just like to stir the pot a little more sometime,I have two SKS rifle a YUGO & a Chinese not your typical sporting or match grade barreled rifle to say the least,just your run of the mill $150 to $225 surplus guns. I reload for them both,actually I shoot the same loads in both rifles,either the 123 Gr SP w/cannalure or FMJ without one and crimp both bullets with the Lee FCD. Aside for my lack of shooting skill on one of the targets and the limited range of the SKS can anyone tell me which bullet type belongs to which target.

Two 5 shot groups with iron sights
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j1/rhsikes/smallYUGO-1.jpg
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j1/rhsikes/scan3.jpg
Sorry about the flinch on the last one.:cuss:

Feanaro
February 12, 2008, 03:17 AM
if there were any very tiny, remote, miniscule possibility that either crimping or canneluring a bullet in some way enhanced accuracy..... then you would see it as a common and prevelent technique for loading ammo within the purely accuracy oriented shooting sports such as BR, F-Class, Palma.....

Who has suggested that crimps/cannelures increase accuracy? The lack of cannelures in such sports could equally suggest that they have no effect at all. Since they don't help, no reason to add them. (Though I expect they do reduce accuracy. Another place for the dreaded Variation in Dimension and Weight to attack.)

45crittergitter
February 19, 2008, 10:15 PM
With small bore and medium bore nonmagnum rifles, that will only happen if you have insufficent neck tension.

I guess my .416 deer rifle doesn't qualify. :)

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